Contains Spoilers! Fear The Walking Dead: Season 7 and Season 8... [Archive]

MinionZombie

25-Oct-2021, 10:15 PM

Watched the second episode ... ... I'm unclear on this 'six hours' thing ... is that in total or at one time? 'Cos they've been out searching for food on multiple occasions and, in Morgan's case, he managed to put together a nuclear apocalypse proof vehicle ... ... what?!

Again, it looks fantastic and super grim and quite horrific at times, but it's the story and the characters and the way the show is written that's just so uninspiring. I'm kinda only watching it because I've kept with it this far and I am interested in a couple of the characters and want to see if/how it ties back into the main show, but geez, it's hard to succinctly surmise my issues with the show. :confused:

Neil

26-Oct-2021, 07:12 AM

I'm kinda only watching it because I've kept with it this far...

I'm passed that, and unless reviews convince me otherwise... I'm out.

MinionZombie

26-Oct-2021, 10:01 AM

I'm passed that, and unless reviews convince me otherwise... I'm out.

Understandable.

It's annoying, because FearTWD tosses in some great ideas now and then, but they often feel wasted on idiotic characters and shonky writing.

FearTWD is plagued by a sense of underwhelming as so many cast members have abandoned ship over the years. I mean for crying out loud, there's only one of the original family left on the show and it's the least interesting one! Strand just goes round in circles swaying back and forth between evil selfish bastard and moments of self-realisation dusted with altruism ... but Daniel is always an interesting character, at least on the strength of Ruben Blades alone who elevates the material he's given by a considerable amount.

You can't help but get a feeling that FearTWD is like a dinghy which keeps springing leaks and everyone on board has to keep bailing it out, while half the people on board just say 'fuck it' and dive overboard and swim off to a nearby cruise ship for sex and sangria. It too often feels lost as to its purpose. They went over so much ground that had already been covered on the main show years prior and it's USP - showing the initial stages of the downfall - was thrown away after a few episodes. There was so much material they could have dug into there and made it something different from the main show, but nope, tossed that opportunity away...

I actually watch the episodes sped-up to get through them quicker.

shootemindehead

26-Oct-2021, 05:05 PM

FTWD can, at times, be better than the parent show. But it always manages to shit bed just when I am coming around to it. The last time was in the last series where Morgan lets the end of the world psychos go when they confront them in the sub. I turned the air blue with that shite. Stuff like that is just so insulting to the viewer.

But every character on the show does weird stuff. I've lost count at the amount of times I wanted to kick Morgan in the arse because of his stupid mumbo jumbo and Strand I just can't keep up with. The best character in whole show, John Dory, got whacked by that crazy little cow. But at least his old man is around and Carradine is putting in a decent shift.

But as far as both shows are concerned I am merely sticking with them at this point. I'm actually happy that TWD is coming to an end as that show is out of road.

JDP

26-Oct-2021, 08:10 PM

MinionZombie

26-Oct-2021, 10:22 PM

Biggest mistake in TWD: to get rid of Rick. He was the only character who was not "disposable". It has never been the same without him being an active part of the storyline. At its core, the whole show had always revolved around Rick. It was basically his story.

And yet, oddly enough, the comics actually benched Rick somewhat towards the end. He became less active due to injuries and was more of a political figure, and the other characters took over more of the heavy lifted.

Was it as good? No, of course not. However, it is interesting that - albeit in a different way - the comics kinda pushed Rick Grimes aside for a spell. He was still involved, but with a missing hand, age, and a fucked up leg, he couldn't do an awful lot. Kirkman kinda wrote himself into a corner there.

shootemindehead

26-Oct-2021, 10:58 PM

MinionZombie

26-Oct-2021, 11:42 PM

Yeah, Rick leaving (or rather Andrew Lincoln leaving) put a large hole in the good ship TWD that it just hasn't been able to recover from. There are good characters that surrounded Rick, but they were all essentially "also rans", where TWD was Rick's story.

Really poor move by Lincoln and I'd say he'll come to regret it, if he hasn't already.

I more got the impression he was taking a bit of a break. His family were living in England while he spent most of the year over in Georgia shooting the show, and after several years doing that it puts pressure on a person and their family. I got the vibe it was more about being able to spend time with his family, possibly at a crucial time. He's only done a couple of things since, with a GdT television show coming up and the Rick Grimes movie, so my impression is more to do with taking a breather.

Considering he's Rick Grimes, there's no way he couldn't have walked into a bunch of projects if he'd wanted to.

shootemindehead

27-Oct-2021, 07:48 AM

Well, I've said it before, I'll be very surprised if that Rick Grimes movie ever sees the light of day.

He may, indeed, be "taking a breather" and not making decisions based of delusions of grandeur, but his decision to do so pretty much scuppered the show and maybe even his career.

Moon Knight

27-Oct-2021, 02:04 PM

MinionZombie

27-Oct-2021, 02:50 PM

I say forget the movies and come back to finish the show!

At this point, yeah.

It'd be crap to end the show and not have Rick Grimes return with Michonne. We need a proper conclusion within the actual show itself, not tacked-on in something else.

I'd still be interested to see a spin-off movie about what happened during that time, but there's seemingly been fuck all movement on this movie. At one point they were saying it would be three movies, right? I didn't just dream that up, did I?

JDP

28-Oct-2021, 02:36 AM

At this point, yeah.

It'd be crap to end the show and not have Rick Grimes return with Michonne. We need a proper conclusion within the actual show itself, not tacked-on in something else.

I'd still be interested to see a spin-off movie about what happened during that time, but there's seemingly been fuck all movement on this movie. At one point they were saying it would be three movies, right? I didn't just dream that up, did I?

Yes, that's right, they said 3 movies. But there hasn't been a peep about even one so far. Andrew Lincoln must have signed a contract with them for these movies before leaving the show, so one has to wonder what the heck happened. Did they breach contract? Or did they reach a new agreement? (a la Schwarzenegger with the three Conan movies he was supposed to make for Dino De Laurentiis, but only two were made, and then they offered him Red Sonja to fulfill his contract instead of another Conan entry)?

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.nme.com/news/tv/andrew-lincoln-the-walking-dead-exit-terrible-decision-2865227

MinionZombie

28-Oct-2021, 12:13 PM

Ah! I knew it was for family reasons.

This is part of the problem with TV seasons being long. Especially with so much competition out there I don't see any reason for any show to be longer than 10 episodes. Shows like TWD should only be 10 per season and I think it'd have a positive impact in many ways - less time away from family / more time to pursue other opportunities while staying on the show for cast & crew (so you don't have to awkwardly write people out or lose your hero/heroine), and it'd also be better for the audience as fewer episodes mean they won't get burned out as quick, especially if a show really has to drag out it's material to fulfil that many episodes - traditional American seasons of 24 episodes are riddled with filler in particular ... or just look at FearTWD. So much friggin' filler ... painting fucking trees? Oh jog the fuck on!

MinionZombie

24-Apr-2022, 11:35 PM

FearTWD is back ... and woof.

Just watched 7x09 (7x10 and 7x11 are already out), and what a load of bollocks. Didn't help that it was an Alicia episode. She's one of the most intensely irritating and poorly written characters on the show by a long old way.

I've never seen a show lose its way so often in so many different ways. There's been good points on the show throughout the seasons, and great ideas that have been wasted on stupid characters, cliched villains, underwritten plots, and a general vibe of nonsense that seems to permeate everything.

7x09 has a dude who's blasting music ridiculously loud, but don't worry, a few mattresses slung up against his windows has 'sound proofed' the house. How does he know? Good question - because he's deaf - so how the hell would he know?! Also, where on earth is he getting his power from?

A nuclear bomb has gone off and yet the fallout seems to be very sporadic and localised. It's either totally bad or just dandy. Eh?

Dreadfully pretentious dialogue and attempts at somehow being profound, but it's just junk and filler. I've lost grip on what's happening, why it's happening ... the only reason I'm still watching is for the occasional good bit or the odd character that I do actually like, as well as that trap of having invested so much time in it that I don't want to just ditch-out. It was easy to ditch-out on World Beyond because it was so terrible from the get-go, but FearTWD has been up and down like a rollercoaster across every single season. Just when you're gonna quit, something decent comes along. There's even been some great episodes (e.g. 4x01) ... but geez ... what a mess it has turned into again.

facestabber

25-Apr-2022, 03:13 AM

Yes, that's right, they said 3 movies. But there hasn't been a peep about even one so far. Andrew Lincoln must have signed a contract with them for these movies before leaving the show, so one has to wonder what the heck happened. Did they breach contract? Or did they reach a new agreement? (a la Schwarzenegger with the three Conan movies he was supposed to make for Dino De Laurentiis, but only two were made, and then they offered him Red Sonja to fulfill his contract instead of another Conan entry)?

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.nme.com/news/tv/andrew-lincoln-the-walking-dead-exit-terrible-decision-2865227

Red Sonja was a travesty. I loved the Conans'. Yes even the Destroyer. Remember my dad and I watching that together over and over. I guess Arnie wasnt a fan of Destroyer. I would have loved an entry with King Conan.

- - - Updated - - -

FearTWD is back ... and woof.

Just watched 7x09 (7x10 and 7x11 are already out), and what a load of bollocks. Didn't help that it was an Alicia episode. She's one of the most intensely irritating and poorly written characters on the show by a long old way.

I've never seen a show lose its way so often in so many different ways. There's been good points on the show throughout the seasons, and great ideas that have been wasted on stupid characters, cliched villains, underwritten plots, and a general vibe of nonsense that seems to permeate everything.

7x09 has a dude who's blasting music ridiculously loud, but don't worry, a few mattresses slung up against his windows has 'sound proofed' the house. How does he know? Good question - because he's deaf - so how the hell would he know?! Also, where on earth is he getting his power from?

A nuclear bomb has gone off and yet the fallout seems to be very sporadic and localised. It's either totally bad or just dandy. Eh?

Dreadfully pretentious dialogue and attempts at somehow being profound, but it's just junk and filler. I've lost grip on what's happening, why it's happening ... the only reason I'm still watching is for the occasional good bit or the odd character that I do actually like, as well as that trap of having invested so much time in it that I don't want to just ditch-out. It was easy to ditch-out on World Beyond because it was so terrible from the get-go, but FearTWD has been up and down like a rollercoaster across every single season. Just when you're gonna quit, something decent comes along. There's even been some great episodes (e.g. 4x01) ... but geez ... what a mess it has turned into again.

I watched parts of Season 2 and never went back. Some day when im closing in on death I hope to watch some of it, but with these reviews I'm not too hopeful. I sure miss the days when TWD created so much conversation and was hitting 13 plus million views per episode. Seasons 2-5 had people, not into zombies(walkers) before, falling in love with the genre. FEAR started off cool as heck but got too deep past the initial panic/fall that I lost interest fast.

MinionZombie

25-Apr-2022, 09:46 AM

I watched parts of Season 2 and never went back. Some day when im closing in on death I hope to watch some of it, but with these reviews I'm not too hopeful. I sure miss the days when TWD created so much conversation and was hitting 13 plus million views per episode. Seasons 2-5 had people, not into zombies(walkers) before, falling in love with the genre. FEAR started off cool as heck but got too deep past the initial panic/fall that I lost interest fast.

I wouldn't bother. I'm sunk in it now, too many episodes and seasons watched ... so if I gave up it'd feel like all that time was wasted completely ... but if you ditched out in season two, I'd say keep it that way. I had decided to give up at the end of season three, but then season four got off to an excellent start with its TWD cross-over and new character John Dorie (probably the best character the show ever had, one that I would've loved to have seen utilised better on the main show), but then the whiff of rot began creeping back in with seasons 5 and 6, and now we're on 7 and the intrigue and promise of what a nuclear fallout could provide in a zombie apocalypse setting is being wasted on boring story and characters.

It simply cannot sustain 16 episodes per season as it doesn't have anywhere near enough story to fill all that. The show also suffers from basically retreating numerous plot points that were already covered (and covered well) on TWD, so it so often is just 'a poor copy of the parent show', lurching from one forgettable villain to the next, one half-assed encampment to the next, with cast members fleeing for the exit clauses in their contracts once they realise they're getting stuck with dreck. There's only three original cast members remaining, one of them is the worst character on the entire show, another is an annoying arse whose attitude in any given season shifts wildly from one outlook to the complete opposite, while the other is actually good and compelling but severely under-used.

It's amazing, really, as the current showrunners had written some excellent episodes of TWD, but FearTWD is a show built on shifting sands with caverns of empty space that always need filling with never enough content available.

It completely lost its reason for being after season one. It should have been a mini-series with a limited number of episodes, because even from season two you could see where the wind was blowing.

There's some truly stupid things that happen, some truly naff choices made at times (e.g. Alicia's 'choice weapon' of a broken gun barrel, an entire subplot about painting fucking trees), and any good ideas that stray into different territory get totally squandered on crap writing, dull plotting, and cliched characterisation. It also doesn't help that the characters are so separated for much of the time, so you've got little clusters here and there and you actually forget that some characters even exist because they're off-screen for so many episodes at a time - I'd completely forgotten that Dwight from TWD, for example, was in the show until just now.

The few glimmers of interest aren't worth you getting into it, frankly. Stick with TWD.

JDP

25-Apr-2022, 10:49 AM

Red Sonja was a travesty. I loved the Conans'. Yes even the Destroyer. Remember my dad and I watching that together over and over. I guess Arnie wasnt a fan of Destroyer. I would have loved an entry with King Conan.

I found it rather amusing and funny (mostly unintentionally so.) Same for the second Conan flick. But the masterpiece is the first Conan movie. Best damn barbarian-themed film ever made.

Moon Knight

25-Apr-2022, 12:13 PM

Just like MZ, I’m too invested at this point. FTWD is such a frustrating show now, it’s sad.

MinionZombie

25-Apr-2022, 12:24 PM

Just like MZ, I’m too invested at this point. FTWD is such a frustrating show now, it’s sad.

I was watching 7x09 last night - and at 1.63x speed, I might add, just so I can skim through quicker! - and there were numerous points where I just rolled my eyes at cringey lines of dialogue, clunky moments of attempted profundity, and the sheer volume of filler.

So many episodes feel disconnected from the whole, distinct capsules of absolute inconsistency, with some very silly ideas tossed in that kind of suggest a disregard for the established vibe of the main show.

FearTWD so often comes across as unruly in a bad way, in an ill-disciplined way, in a way that suggests the showrunners don't really know what to do at any one point, and when they do have an idea it's either so poorly executed or attached to very poor characterisation (with the characters often making very dumb decisions along the way). It feels like nowhere near enough thought is put into this show and, despite multiple 'reboots' of sorts, it has never truly rebooted itself and wasted absolute gold mines for story.

Moon Knight

26-Apr-2022, 02:08 PM

I was watching 7x09 last night - and at 1.63x speed, I might add, just so I can skim through quicker! - and there were numerous points where I just rolled my eyes at cringey lines of dialogue, clunky moments of attempted profundity, and the sheer volume of filler.

So many episodes feel disconnected from the whole, distinct capsules of absolute inconsistency, with some very silly ideas tossed in that kind of suggest a disregard for the established vibe of the main show.

FearTWD so often comes across as unruly in a bad way, in an ill-disciplined way, in a way that suggests the showrunners don't really know what to do at any one point, and when they do have an idea it's either so poorly executed or attached to very poor characterisation (with the characters often making very dumb decisions along the way). It feels like nowhere near enough thought is put into this show and, despite multiple 'reboots' of sorts, it has never truly rebooted itself and wasted absolute gold mines for story.

Yessir and they always follow the same formula. Starts great, ends very bad. Have you seen 7x11 yet?

MinionZombie

26-Apr-2022, 03:29 PM

Yessir and they always follow the same formula. Starts great, ends very bad. Have you seen 7x11 yet?

Not yet. I've only done 7x09 so far, got 10 and 11 sitting around still to be watched.

MinionZombie

27-Apr-2022, 03:54 PM

I watched 7x10 last night. Quite an improvement over 7x09, which was just dull as ditchwater ... I mean, seriously, that as your mid-season premiere?!

However - that's two episodes in a row now where they've spent a great deal of time introducing a brand new character only to kill them off at the end, meanwhile there's a large and scattered cast of established characters sitting around twiddling their thumbs!

They're playing kinda fast and loose with this whole nuclear fallout thing, too. :rockbrow:

MinionZombie

30-Apr-2022, 10:24 PM

Okay, caught up with 7x11.

Enjoyed the 'zombie cage' thing. Still pretty darn fast and loose with nuclear radiation, huh? Also - they see irradiated walkers milling about below, right near where that big long pokey stick used for zombie killin' is, and don't take them out ... just kicking the can on down the road, huh? It's like the ZA version of littering. Tsk tsk! :shifty:

shootemindehead

01-May-2022, 01:28 PM

Red Sonja was a travesty. I loved the Conans'. Yes even the Destroyer. Remember my dad and I watching that together over and over. I guess Arnie wasnt a fan of Destroyer. I would have loved an entry with King Conan.

Conan sunk because few people were fans of Destroyer. It was crap and reviews were quite scathing.

I think the original premise was for Conan to run as a series of movies or, at the very least, a trilogy. But the bad reviews and relatively poor BO of 'Conan the Destroyer' put paid to that particular venture. Plus 'Red Sonja' getting savaged from critics, as well, put Arnie off of the sword and sorcery gigs in a big way. Into the bargain, Sly was having great (and somewhat regrettable) success with 'Rambo', which spurned Arnie to go in a more muscles and guns direction.

It's done now though. Arnie's way too old for it at this stage, he's an OAP. It would end up ludicrous, or worse, Conan will end up getting sidelined by newer "characters" who'll get to teach him modern day "lessons" and "messages".

It's telling that the only sword and sorcery movie of that era that was any use was 'Conan the Barbarian', and that's down to the writing of John Milius. Once that was gone, we're into very dodgy territory indeed because it's so easy to slip into with this type of movie. The numerous Italian rip off's have some charm to them, but only in a WTF way more than anything else.

MinionZombie

06-Jun-2022, 10:19 AM

Finally polished off season 7.

This show needs to end, really. So much squandered potential, so many storylines needlessly drawn out, such poor characterisation (Strand in particular swings so wildly from good to bad for such vague and wooly reasons).

At least...
Alicia's been written out of the show - but they couldn't even get the balls to just kill her off. She gets bitten, cuts off her own arm (in a collapsed tunnel, no less, so not only extraordinarily unsanitary but it was like a scene out of The Descent) and endures an infection for months and survives - she just goes wandering off back to a location she'd only just told strangers to go to on the radio, a place that's on fucking fire and attracting radioactive zombies. I mean ... wtf?

And do we really need all these secret organisations with dodgy methods that don't really make much sense? All this talk about "Padre" for well over a season and we finally get a little glimpse at it farted out in the season finale and that's it? Jog on. :rolleyes:

JDP

08-Jun-2022, 10:49 AM

Also: no explanation whatsoever about how did Madison survive being trapped in the burning stadium with a horde of zombies coming straight at her. And are we supposed to believe that she survived all this time but yet could not find any remaining member of the group again on her own? What was she doing?? Was she kidnapping babies all this time???

MinionZombie

08-Jun-2022, 11:52 AM

It's just downright piss poor writing. FearTWD flip flops wildly all over the place, and they routinely make characters do things that are either fucking stupid or totally outside their moral compass. FearTWD is written not out of any logical sense, it's always written out of 'this needs to happen so therefore it just does'.

I didn't really buy any of the reasoning for Madison doing what she was doing, frankly. And aye, they pretty definitively kill her off (albeit without being particularly visual about it), but this is just a cheap attempt to try and reinvigorate a show that's already circling the drain (and has been for some time).

Moon Knight

14-Jun-2022, 02:51 PM

Still can’t bring myself to finish this once I found out Alicia left and she won’t even connect with Madison again.

Amazing.

MinionZombie

14-Jun-2022, 10:03 PM

Still can’t bring myself to finish this once I found out Alicia left and she won’t even connect with Madison again.

Amazing.

1) You're not missing much.
2) I'm surprised you were that invested! :stunned:

Alicia has been 'written out alive' (I was hoping they'd bump her off, so annoying as she is), and I didn't care much for how they brought back Madison, which just smacked of stunt writing and "okay, I'll do it, 'cos I could use the money after Covid". :(

JDP

14-Jun-2022, 10:37 PM

1) You're not missing much.
2) I'm surprised you were that invested! :stunned:

Alicia has been 'written out alive' (I was hoping they'd bump her off, so annoying as she is), and I didn't care much for how they brought back Madison, which just smacked of stunt writing and "okay, I'll do it, 'cos I could use the money after Covid". :(

Bringing Madison back is just too contrived. She should have been left "dead" (which I strongly suspect was the original intention.) So, she somehow escaped that burning, zombie-infested mess, but yet she has not stumbled upon any of the remaining members of the group until now? Really? Where has she been all this time? Stealing babies? I'm not buying it. The most logical thing would have been for her to try to catch up with the group (where her son and daughter were) as soon as possible right after her escape, even if she had health "complications". All she did in the show was ultimately for the survival of her children, but all of a sudden now she changes her mind just like that and doesn't care??? Baloney. And trying to use "PADRE" as an excuse doesn't seem to cut it. Those folks seem interested in appropriating other people's babies, not young adults who can already fend for themselves.

MinionZombie

15-Jun-2022, 12:34 PM

It's all the more galling as the showrunners are always trying so hard to sell this shit to we the viewers, as if it was some grand master plan and not some random 'ah fuck it' moment aboard the good ship calamity where they just lurch from one dumb idea to the next. Either they truly believe they're writing quality stuff, or they know it's shit and they're a) doing nothing to rectify it, and b) don't particularly care. Whichever way doesn't reflect well on the show or those in charge of it.

The only think consistent about FearTWD over all the years has been how inconsistent it has been.

MinionZombie

02-Jun-2023, 04:03 PM

So season 8 is underway with three or four episodes have already aired for the 12 episode season (four shorter than the usual run). It'll be two doses of six episodes each.

Haven't watched any of the new season yet. I'll get around to it some time, I guess. I've watched it this far, it'd feel weird to not polish it off now ... but I'm not inspired to dive into it in any hurry after too much filler and too many dull/repeated/silly plotlines from FearTWD over the seasons, that have got in the way of any and all of the good stuff the show has done during that same time.

shootemindehead

03-Jun-2023, 09:23 AM

Haven't watched any of it myself. Don't know if I'll bother with it any more.

Moon Knight

03-Jun-2023, 12:20 PM

I already heard the same writing problems exist. Don’t think I can finish this one.

JDP

22-Nov-2023, 05:29 PM

This spin-off ended this past weekend. Main characters were basically dispatched in a hurry. Plus Troy (yes, he somehow "survived" and reappeared too! Just like Madison) kept on pulling the "I will tell lies, tee-hee!" card over and over, and Madison somehow kept on falling for them, hook, line and sinker! The whole thing looked very rushed and contrived.

Neil

23-Nov-2023, 08:27 AM

Didn't even realise this was still a thing! :rolleyes:

MinionZombie

23-Nov-2023, 09:00 AM

I skimmed through the first episode of season eight, because it quickly became quite rubbish. I've been meaning to skim through more but there's so much more stuff to watch out there that absolutely shits all over this show, so I've not got around to it. I had thought of trying to catch up in time for it finishing, but there we are. :p

beat_truck

23-Nov-2023, 11:49 PM

I lost track of FTWD somewhere in the middle of season 4. I lost track of TWD in the middle of season 10. I should have lost track of it several years before that.:annoyed:

Neil

24-Nov-2023, 08:36 AM

What happened to Victor Strand and Morgan Jones in the series?

JDP

24-Nov-2023, 09:25 AM

I lost track of FTWD somewhere in the middle of season 4. I lost track of TWD in the middle of season 10. I should have lost track of it several years before that.:annoyed:

But if you want to find out what happens to Rick you will have to keep up with the upcoming spin-off. All these "spin-offs" are an obvious gimmick by AMC to "milk the zombie cow" as much as possible. Rick's storyline should have properly ended with the main show, since he was always the central character from its very beginning.

- - - Updated - - -

What happened to Victor Strand and Morgan Jones in the series?

They both survived till the very end. The main characters of this spin-off end up going their own separate ways. Strand, Dwight, Salazar, June and Madison and their respective families each go on to try to find a better, safer place to live. Morgan's new "quest" is to find Rick again. It seems pretty obvious that he will end up in the Rick & Michonne spin-off.

beat_truck

24-Nov-2023, 09:15 PM

But if you want to find out what happens to Rick you will have to keep up with the upcoming spin-off. All these "spin-offs" are an obvious gimmick by AMC to "milk the zombie cow" as much as possible. Rick's storyline should have properly ended with the main show, since he was always the central character from its very beginning.

When the milk becomes sour enough, people stop giving a fuck about the characters, and refuse to watch any more of AMC's bullshit shows.

People like me should have stopped watching when they killed off Carl and flew Rick off to La La Land, because that's when the show became COMPLETELY beyond repair. On the other hand, we figure "I've invested this much time, I'm going to see this 'till the end!" But..... we underestimate just how poorly written and just plain fucking STUPID AMC could make the show....:mad: