TWD Season 11-B & 11-C discussion... **ROLLING SPOILERS**

[MinionZombie]

Please keep all talk of episode 11x09 "No Other Way" specifically inside this thread.

If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).

Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all.

Enjoy!

Directed by: Jon Amiel
Written by: Corey Reed

So season 11, part 2 of 3, has got underway (well, it airs a week early on AMC+).

*rubs hands* Right-o! :)

- - - Updated - - -

I liked how this episode dispensed with the Reapers pronto, swept them right the hell outta the way, no more fannying about with them while having Maggie go full on lady of vengeance on their arses.

There's also some nice setup as we can finally dig much more into the Commonwealth in the coming weeks (nice 'six months later' teaser, too). I'd imagine Rick's Commonwealth-related story will be getting adapted for Daryl.

Looking forward to the next episode. :)

I did wonder about the hygiene of the water with the walkers in it, but then again we've seen our characters in zombie-infested water before, so I'm okay with it.

[Moon Knight]

Damn what a way to come back! And that ending! So many moments here I need time to process it all :D

[MinionZombie]

Damn what a way to come back! And that ending! So many moments here I need time to process it all :D

I loved how savage Maggie was, just when you think they're going to let the Reapers slink away in some queasy truce type deal - oosh! - she guns 'em down and takes her revenge. No fannying about.

And there goes Aiden. I'd actually forgotten they'd left him in that abandoned church until she arrived outside it. There goes another blacksmith, I guess! Not much luck comes to those in useful jobs ... especially medics.

[Moon Knight]

I loved how savage Maggie was, just when you think they're going to let the Reapers slink away in some queasy truce type deal - oosh! - she guns 'em down and takes her revenge. No fannying about.

And there goes Aiden. I'd actually forgotten they'd left him in that abandoned church until she arrived outside it. There goes another blacksmith, I guess! Not much luck comes to those in useful jobs ... especially medics.

Maggie took Negan’s advice when she asked him if he would have handled the situation with her group differently and he said yes, he would have killed them all.

Maggie thought about this and decided to not let the Reapers walk away after everything they did. Loved that.

[MinionZombie]

Also, the way Gabriel dealt with the Reapers' very own preacher was pretty great. :elol:

[MinionZombie]

Please keep all talk of episode 11x10 "New Haunts" specifically inside this thread.

If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).

Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all.

Enjoy!

Directed by: Jon Amiel
Written by: Magali Lozano

[JDP]

Pretty violent episode.

[MinionZombie]

Please keep all talk of episode 11x11 "Rogue Element" specifically inside this thread.

If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).

Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all.

Enjoy!

Directed by: Michael Cudlitz
Written by: David Leslie Johnson-McGoldrick

[MinionZombie]

Getting a better look inside the Commonwealth now. Interesting to see the clash of this cloistered community versus our battle-hardened survivors, particularly with Daryl trying to find a place to fit in.

Diggin' Mercer. Looks just like he did in the comics and the actor's nailing it.

[Moon Knight]

Mercer is so damn spot on!

[MinionZombie]

I'm not entirely sure what the purpose is in...

The switcheroo with the lady Eugene was talking on the radio with.

What advantage do they get out of that? :confused:

[MinionZombie]

Mercer is so damn spot on!

I liked some of the little details, such as Judith being introduced to the likes of Motorhead and buying music, and nice to see Daryl having to act as a sort of surrogate father/cool uncle to the kids. I've really liked the way that he has been allowed to grow and explore some areas that are quite alien to his character in the wake of Rick's disappearance.

I would like to see a bit more of their discomfort at trying to fit into this very pre-apoc style society after so many years (or, in Judith's case, an entire lifetime) in the dangerous wilds of the zombie apocalypse. The Commonwealth people, or so many of them, are so disconnected from the reality outside their walls.

[Moon Knight]

I liked some of the little details, such as Judith being introduced to the likes of Motorhead and buying music, and nice to see Daryl having to act as a sort of surrogate father/cool uncle to the kids. I've really liked the way that he has been allowed to grow and explore some areas that are quite alien to his character in the wake of Rick's disappearance.

I would like to see a bit more of their discomfort at trying to fit into this very pre-apoc style society after so many years (or, in Judith's case, an entire lifetime) in the dangerous wilds of the zombie apocalypse. The Commonwealth people, or so many of them, are so disconnected from the reality outside their walls.

Sucks we didn't get the group seeing the Commonwealth for the first time, like, we didn't get to even see the football stadium! You can tell they had to scale down due to restrictions.

[MinionZombie]

Sucks we didn't get the group seeing the Commonwealth for the first time, like, we didn't get to even see the football stadium! You can tell they had to scale down due to restrictions.

Yeah, I would've liked to have seen a little more of that 'wow' factor. I suppose we got a bit of it in 11A with the others rocking up there. I suppose they don't want to repeat themselves, but I would've liked just some little 'memory flashes' with the various characters being in the moment and then being shocked by something very normal in this new world and flashing back to their first encounter with the Commonwealth, just to enhance that idea of the giant schism between how they'd been living for so many years versus this very jarring shift, almost like finding yourself in pre-ZA days.

I really liked some of those moments when our group first arrived at Alexandria - e.g. Rick in a hot shower with all that muck sluicing off down the drain, or Carl being invited to play videogames and just not knowing what to think.

[Moon Knight]

I also really love seeing Daryl and Rosita actually having jobs earning income lol

Yeah I didn’t mind it as much cause it would have been kind of a repeat. Still wanna see that football stadium though!

[MinionZombie]

Still wanna see that football stadium though!

Could be Covid related, could also be budget related, or both.

I really liked the moment when Daryl and Judith listen to Motorhead together, after he's bought her a record player. Daryl's evolution as a character has been great over the course of the show. Gimple ended up kinda squandering him a bit in season 7 to a lot of moody grunts and such, but Kang has really given him so much more range ... plus, he had to step into Rick's shoes as well, so...

[Moon Knight]

Could be Covid related, could also be budget related, or both.

I really liked the moment when Daryl and Judith listen to Motorhead together, after he's bought her a record player. Daryl's evolution as a character has been great over the course of the show. Gimple ended up kinda squandering him a bit in season 7 to a lot of moody grunts and such, but Kang has really given him so much more range ... plus, he had to step into Rick's shoes as well, so...

I loved that scene between Daryl and Judith! Man gets his first paycheck and he spends it on Judith. Awwww man I love it.

Daryl has come a long way and you’re right, I do see some Rick in him for those very reasons you explained.

[Yucy]

Would love to see Negan again in future episodes.
A lil sad to see him leaving the group and wandering off on his own but I get it.
If I were him, I would have done the same thing.

[JDP]

Someone in TWD likes old school heavy metal. Previous episode had references to Motörhead (and so did one of the episodes when Merle was around), this one to Iron Maiden.

[Moon Knight]

I'm not entirely sure what the purpose is in...

The switcheroo with the lady Eugene was talking on the radio with.

What advantage do they get out of that? :confused:

To get Eugene to spill Alexandria’s secrets! Wait…

Yeah, I got nothing. Lol

[MinionZombie]

I find Lance a bit annoying, in that he's so obviously a wrong'un. Every smile is so clearly not worth trusting. I know they have to get across ulterior motives etc to an audience, but I always get distracted by too-obvious facial expressions ... like, do the characters not see the look on his face right now?! :lol:

Dodgy bastard. :D

[MinionZombie]

Please keep all talk of episode 11x12 "The Lucky Ones" specifically inside this thread.

If you have a theory for a following episode, please use the "spoiler tags" (visit the HPOTD FAQ to find out how to use them if you don't already know).

Similarly, if you're going to discuss plot points from the comic book, please use "spoiler tags" - not everyone is up-to-date on them, and some people don't read them at all.

Enjoy!

Directed by: Tawnia McKiernan
Written by: Vivian Tse

...

Okay, so a bit more on this whole Stephanie/Max thing ... but I still don't really quite know why/how it was advantageous to Lance to do this whole subterfuge thing with an oblivious Eugene.

Evidently Lance is working in his own self interest for power reasons, but I don't get how this switcheroo was a useful move. :confused:

[MinionZombie]

11x13 "Warlords".

UPDATE - I've merged all the threads for Season 11-B into one thread, so ALL talk of Season 11-B will now be inside this one single thread - so be aware of rolling spoilers if you're behind in your viewing.

Enjoy!

Directed by: Loren Yaconelli
Written by: Jim Barnes & Erik Mountain

...

I enjoyed the stuff with Maggie and whats'ername (Pamela?) from the Commonwealth. You can see they've got certain things in common, but the approach is very different at the core - old world/new world. Nice to see Maggie address the fact that the Commonwealth are too wrapped in cotton wool for the realities of their ZA world, but at the same time her community is in such a dire place that it's no wonder folks would want to jack it in.

[MinionZombie]

Michael friggin' Biehn! So good! :cool:

[Moon Knight]

Warlords was such a good episode! The guest actors have been great!

[MinionZombie]

Warlords was such a good episode! The guest actors have been great!

I liked how it was written, too. You've got the gravity with Biehn, but then you get the shocks of cutting him off before the monologue you've been lead to expect. Kept you on your toes.

A little better clarification over the passage of time would be nice. It kinda felt like Negan had very quickly found himself in with these new folks, but it's apparently been a decent amount of time - but again, it's not that clear. It was clearer with the month-long time pass for our group being fresh in to The Commonwealth.

Gabriel's been a pretty solid character lately, too. Kicking arse for the Lord. :D

[Moon Knight]

I liked how it was written, too. You've got the gravity with Biehn, but then you get the shocks of cutting him off before the monologue you've been lead to expect. Kept you on your toes.

A little better clarification over the passage of time would be nice. It kinda felt like Negan had very quickly found himself in with these new folks, but it's apparently been a decent amount of time - but again, it's not that clear. It was clearer with the month-long time pass for our group being fresh in to The Commonwealth.

Gabriel's been a pretty solid character lately, too. Kicking arse for the Lord. :D

Yeah, the playing with time was kinda jarring. But, Aaron and Gabriel are fantastic together. The scene with Ian in his office was intense. Solid turn of events too!

[MinionZombie]

Yeah, the playing with time was kinda jarring. But, Aaron and Gabriel are fantastic together. The scene with Ian in his office was intense. Solid turn of events too!

I'd agree that the time jumping was a tad sloppy in this storyline ... a bit scattered feeling, but on the other hand it's not a storyline you could do linearly anyway, what with all the secrets and lies and hidden agendas swirling about.

I was a bit wary initially, like 'another religious cult' type thing (especially after The Reapers with their Bible-thumping leader), so it maybe was diluted a bit because of The Reapers, but then again Michael Biehn made for such a good grizzled leader. I dug the battle of wits and logic going on with Aaron and Gabriel kinda stuck in the middle.

Mr 'dip my finger in your booze' is a total nobber. Fuck that guy. :lol:

[MinionZombie]

11x14 "The Rotten Core".

Directed by: Marcus Stokes
Written by: Erik Mountain & Jim Barnes

Curious how seemingly not one of the people turfed off the roof endured enough damage to the head/brain to not revive as a walker.

Still - an awesome end for Mr Finger Dipper guy. :elol:

[facestabber]

I saw that they wrapped up filming for TWD. Its over. Admittedly my interest faded when Rick and Carl were no longer the focus. But the news definitely hit me. I remember the lead up to 10.31.10. The rumors were abundant about this new show about my favorite genre. I was excited but also hesitant that it could totally miss the mark. “Days Gone Bye” was a masterpiece. I couldn’t believe it. Two weeks later I’m walking into my hotel in Framingham Massachusetts’s and Norman Reedus is standing outside smoking. I knew him first as Murphy Mcmanus but we had one hell of a convo over Irish whiskeys about TWD. He was very forthcoming about events of remaining season 1 as the hype and non disclosures hadn’t hit yet. Years later I discovered the online community including the gem that is HPOTD. I’ve enjoyed the great dialogue with all of you over the years. Even the JDP Day of the Dead timeline argument hahahahaha. This show will always be my favorite tv show of all time. And you folks here made it even better. I tip my hat to you and hope the finale satisfies most of us. I really hope Rosita survives for Moons sanity.

[MinionZombie]

Love the show, even though its best days are behind it, but it's still got the goods and can still deliver the awesome sauce when required.

The discussion on HPOTD for TWD has waned lately, which is a bummer, as it's really the only place where I talk about the show with other folks, and I do enjoy digging over the episodes. Although the last few seasons there's been less to dig over in weird ways, perhaps much of the discussion ground has been covered...

Hopefully the remaining episodes bring it and the show goes out on a big old high.

[Moon Knight]

Love the show, even though its best days are behind it, but it's still got the goods and can still deliver the awesome sauce when required.

The discussion on HPOTD for TWD has waned lately, which is a bummer, as it's really the only place where I talk about the show with other folks, and I do enjoy digging over the episodes. Although the last few seasons there's been less to dig over in weird ways, perhaps much of the discussion ground has been covered...

Hopefully the remaining episodes bring it and the show goes out on a big old high.

Yep! I stuck with it even when it was at a low point. How many shows run for 11 seasons and go out on their own terms and aren’t just canceled?

TWD still has a strong fanbase and you can see that just by all the post on social media concerning the final day of shooting. Lots of love and appreciation all throughout. End of an era.

[MinionZombie]

Fuck it, let's just roll with the last couple at once - not sure if folks are keeping up via AMC+ (episodes air a week earlier) or just AMC, so...

11x15 "Trust"

Directed by: Lily Mariye
Written by: Kevin Deiboldt

and

11x16 "Acts of God"

Directed by: Catriona McKenzie
Written by: Nicole Mirante-Matthews

[MinionZombie]

Trailer for the final eight episodes.

cqpHzeGBsBc

The only thing that gives me pause is this thing about a different kind of walker being introduced. :rockbrow: I believe that's something that was a part of that World Beyond crap?

SDCC 2022 TWD Panel:

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pkqvp6ycqjY

[MinionZombie]

So here we go ... the final eight episodes of TWD are upon us!

11x17 "Lockdown".

Directed by: Greg Nicotero
Written by: Julia Ruchman

&

11x18 "A New Deal".

Directed by: Jeffrey F. January
Story by : Corey Reed
Teleplay by : Corey Reed & Kevin Deiboldt

[facestabber]

So here we go ... the final eight episodes of TWD are upon us!

11x17 "Lockdown".

Directed by: Greg Nicotero
Written by: Julia Ruchman

I’m ready and caught up. Took a trip down memory lane and watched first couple episodes of Season 1. Halloween night of 2010 was truly a magical night of tv. As the camera panned up and away from the tank with “Space Junk” playing, I grabbed the phone and started calling people. TWD wasn’t a stupid zombie show, it was legit. I was and am still invested in Rick Grimes navigation through this world with his son Coral(F U scott gimple). I hope the show finds a way to end strong. To me that HAS to include Rick and Michonne.

[shootemindehead]

I’m ready and caught up. Took a trip down memory lane and watched first couple episodes of Season 1. Halloween night of 2010 was truly a magical night of tv. As the camera panned up and away from the tank with “Space Junk” playing, I grabbed the phone and started calling people. TWD wasn’t a stupid zombie show, it was legit. I was and am still invested in Rick Grimes navigation through this world with his son Coral(F U scott gimple). I hope the show finds a way to end strong. To me that HAS to include Rick and Michonne.

I watched the first series a few months ago myself and was saddened at just how far the drop in quality the show has gone through in the decade it's been on. Hopefully, it can end on a strong note, but the reality is that it really nose dived when Lincoln decided to jump ship.

[MinionZombie]

I watched the first series a few months ago myself and was saddened at just how far the drop in quality the show has gone through in the decade it's been on. Hopefully, it can end on a strong note, but the reality is that it really nose dived when Lincoln decided to jump ship.

I reacted quite negatively to the news that Lincoln was departing the show, although I fully understood his reason (to be close to his family, whom he'd been separated from for so much of the preceding years - another reason why I think 10 episodes should be the max for any show, to allow those involved to spend more time either with their families or pursuing other projects on the side, which would likely help stop so many inconvenient departures) ... ... where was I? Oh yeah, I was pissed off hearing the news, but was stunned by how well season 9 managed to cope without Rick. Truly, I was.

Season 10 was a mixed bag. The first 8 episodes kinda struggled, but the next 8 episodes really rallied again and boasted some truly awesome all-time great moments (ironically enough, Michonne's final episode - specifically the 'alternate path' Michonne stuff). The tacked-on six afterwards were another mixed bag. The train car episode was so bloody boring, and filler bandied hither and thither, but those six also had some really solid stuff in there.

Season 11 has had some excellent material in it as well. The weak point was the religious military leader guy. Just felt too cliched as a character, we've seen his type many times before in the genre, despite the competent actor playing the role.

Fingers crossed season 11 can finish off with a strong set of eight episodes.

I'm somewhat doubting as to whether we'll get Rick and Michonne back, and even if we do I'd fear it'd be some annoying mere moment with them appearing too late to really enjoy some time with them (there is the spin-off show with those two, though, apparently ... a mini-series, I'd presume?) ... ... to really do it justice, though, we need to close the loop within the confines of The Walking Dead, not a spin-off. I need Rick and Michonne and Judith and RJ re-united and happy, moreso as Gimple fucked over Carl.

I mean, seriously, Gimple? A father guiding his growing son through the zombie apocalypse is the fucking backbone of the entire story!

[shootemindehead]

Well, that's the publicity reason Mini. I've always reckoned, perhaps cynically, that somebody waved movie star Andrew Lincoln's face and he got "starry eyed". Whatever the case may indeed be, his departure signalled the end of the show and, frankly, it has limped on, sometimes heroically, but the fatal damage had been done. I thought S09 soldiered on as best it could, but my bar was very low. S10 was meh to poor and S11 has been, for me, the end point. I'll watch til the end of the show because, after all, it's the zombie TV show that I have always wanted to exist...since the 90's. But, really, its time is well and truly up. The characters I don't really give a toss about and there are some I absolutely loathe. But, generally, the writing is just dead in the water at this point. In short, it's blown its load.

As for the Rick/Michonne angle, I've always hated that because it never, not once, felt organic. It always came of as "oh yeah, these people are an item now...cos...whatever..."

In the end I won't be sorry to see 'The Walking Dead' come to a close, because the producers have really run out of valid ideas at this point. The opportunity is, of course, to expand upon the world, as it were, but as we've seen those expansions have been extremely hit and miss...and that's being very polite.

[MinionZombie]

Well, that's the publicity reason Mini. I've always reckoned, perhaps cynically, that somebody waved movie star Andrew Lincoln's face and he got "starry eyed".

As for the Rick/Michonne angle, I've always hated that because it never, not once, felt organic. It always came of as "oh yeah, these people are an item now...cos...whatever..."

In the end I won't be sorry to see 'The Walking Dead' come to a close, because the producers have really run out of valid ideas at this point. The opportunity is, of course, to expand upon the world, as it were, but as we've seen those expansions have been extremely hit and miss...and that's being very polite.

1) Considering that Danai was open about wanting to pursue other opportunities, including film and stage work, I don't see why Lincoln would need to lie about his reasons. Also, seeing as he's only done a 'bigger indie' film, a rendition of A Christmas Carol at the Old Vic, and one episode of GDT's new telly show since his departure from TWD, I'd say that he was telling it like it was. His family were in England while he was away for months and months every year for several years in a row, so you're going to be missing out on an awful lot and any sane person would want to be able to spend more time with their family. Who knows, there might have been some problems, or it came to a head and a decision had to be made and he made the correct one.

2) l'm fine with 'Richonne'. Their relationship wasn't rushed into and gradually grew over years, going through stages. So it felt quite organic to me and not some 'ah yeah whatever' thing.

3) FearTWD lost its reason for being after season one and then just proceeded to be a poor man's version of the main show. It has had fits and starts of good material or characters along the way, but it gets far more wrong than right and has really turned into a shitshow lately, squandering some cool story ideas. I mean, fuck me, they had an episode where they went to a mall and they failed to go balls deep on the Dawn references ... open goal, much?

World Beyond ... ... no, just no.

Tales From The Walking Dead ... I soldiered through four episodes, but have yet to see the remaining two. God awful junk. Truly abysmal despite the opportunity for a fresh start with each episode.

...

Anyway, I just watched 11x17 and quite enjoyed it. I had to get back into the groove again, feeling slightly lost since it was last on in the spring and a lot of water has passed under the bridge since then (not to mention a lot of telly has passed over these eyeballs in that time :p ) ... ... anyway, I enjoyed it.

Things are in motion, unrest in the Commonwealth is spilling over, a horde of walkers is closing in - good stuff.

Some nice gore moments, too. I enjoyed the jeep action vs the walkers and tearing that guy in half.

Milton's son is a scumbag, just like in the comics, so I really wanna see him get mullered. :elol:

[shootemindehead]

1) Considering that Danai was open about wanting to pursue other opportunities, including film and stage work, I don't see why Lincoln would need to lie about his reasons. Also, seeing as he's only done a 'bigger indie' film, a rendition of A Christmas Carol at the Old Vic, and one episode of GDT's new telly show since his departure from TWD, I'd say that he was telling it like it was. His family were in England while he was away for months and months every year for several years in a row, so you're going to be missing out on an awful lot and any sane person would want to be able to spend more time with their family. Who knows, there might have been some problems, or it came to a head and a decision had to be made and he made the correct one.

Danai wasn't the series' lead though. Viewers would get over her shipping out much quicker than they would with the star of the show who's story TWD basically is. Plus the "he wants to be with his fam" was probably more of an effort from AMC publicity circles than Andrew Lincoln himself. Because Lincoln saying "fuck it, I wanna be a movie star" would have gone over too well with fans.

In addition, just because his turn out hasn't been that stellar in the time he jumped ship, it doesn't mean that someone wasn't blowing smoke up his arse about a movie career before he voluntarily walked his own plank.

In any case, we'll probably never really know and at this point it doesn't matter anyway.


2) l'm fine with 'Richonne'. Their relationship wasn't rushed into and gradually grew over years, going through stages. So it felt quite organic to me and not some 'ah yeah whatever' thing.

They, literally, ended up in the sack in one episode after no "how you doin'" build up whatsoever. I actually recall myself doing a "wait...what?" when I saw that. There was never any indication, at all, that either character had the glad eye for one another.


3) FearTWD lost its reason for being after season one and then just proceeded to be a poor man's version of the main show. It has had fits and starts of good material or characters along the way, but it gets far more wrong than right and has really turned into a shitshow lately, squandering some cool story ideas. I mean, fuck me, they had an episode where they went to a mall and they failed to go balls deep on the Dawn references ... open goal, much?

World Beyond ... ... no, just no.

Tales From The Walking Dead ... I soldiered through four episodes, but have yet to see the remaining two. God awful junk. Truly abysmal despite the opportunity for a fresh start with each episode.

I've never really understood the reason for FTWD's existence. Once the original premise of "let's see society go out of control" got chucked, it immediately became TWD west coast edition as you point out. In fairness, at times I actually found FTWD more entertaining than the flag ship series, once it had gotten a few series in. But I still haven't bothered with the second half of S07. I just can't be arsed.

Everything else in the TWD "universe" has been go awful. I can't even bring myself to sit down to 'Tales from the Walking Dead'. What a dumb fucking title. :rolleyes:

But the story, as a whole, has just shat the bed in any way. I just don't care about the Commonwealth and all that noise in TWD and World Beyond, and what's happening in FTWD is just downright stupid now. It's like a bad version of Fallout and just what the hell is Strand all about now? I cannot understand where the writers are going with him.

It's kinda amazing how far the whole thing has fallen in recent years.

[facestabber]

With Lincoln I will refer back to what an old college professor used to repeat ad nauseum. "multiple factors of causation". Im sure it wasnt just one reason or which reason carried the more weight. I will say Lincoln is one of my favorite actors. He is Rick Grimes. My God has he been exceptional. If AMC wasnt full of morons and they pumped money into TWD instead of lessoning the budget in Season 2 AND Frank Durabont stayed on......I dont believe it would have fell apart like it did IMO during/around Season 6 mark.

I purchased AMC plus to watch this final set. I guess it comes with the perk of watching two episodes. So I saw 11-17 and 18 last night. I wont discuss 18. I dont want to diminish the actors because they do have a talented group. I love Maggie and Daryl. I cant believe I'm saying this, I like Negan now too. But it feels like I'm watching a retelling of Woodbury. The actors can act but the story just seems stale. Credit to Nicotero and his crew. The level they have reached is something to marvel at. Comparing the soldier getting ripped in half in this episode to Capt Rhodes shows a huge leap IMO. And Rhodes death shook me as a teenager so many years ago. Rosita doesnt age and she is just gorgeous.

[MinionZombie]

They, literally, ended up in the sack in one episode after no "how you doin'" build up whatsoever. I actually recall myself doing a "wait...what?" when I saw that. There was never any indication, at all, that either character had the glad eye for one another.

I've never really understood the reason for FTWD's existence. Once the original premise of "let's see society go out of control" got chucked, it immediately became TWD west coast edition as you point out. In fairness, at times I actually found FTWD more entertaining than the flag ship series, once it had gotten a few series in. But I still haven't bothered with the second half of S07. I just can't be arsed.

Everything else in the TWD "universe" has been go awful. I can't even bring myself to sit down to 'Tales from the Walking Dead'. What a dumb fucking title. :rolleyes:

But the story, as a whole, has just shat the bed in any way. I just don't care about the Commonwealth and all that noise in TWD and World Beyond, and what's happening in FTWD is just downright stupid now. It's like a bad version of Fallout and just what the hell is Strand all about now? I cannot understand where the writers are going with him.

1) But they did show Rick and Michonne growing closer. It wasn't necessarily in a outwardly romantic, kissy faces, "do you like me YES/NO" sorta way, but this is the ZA and you don't have a lot of time for that kinda thing mostly. You saw them growing closer and becoming friends and confidants and people who relied on each other and trusted each other, you saw them gain a shared sense of humour about certain things, and then the spark happened on the sofa and they both kinda realised. Michonne had also reached the point where she was essentially a surrogate mother for Carl and Judith, so that alone shows how close she had grown to Rick. I thought they way they got them together on the show worked great.

2) FearTWD season 7 was pretty much shite throughout. It just got worse and worse. They wasted the whole nuclear wasteland + zombies thing on terrible stories and dreadful villains and poor characterisation (which has been a consistent problem with FearTWD). You're not missing much. It was a struggle to get to the end. There were moments, but it handles its stories and characters so clumsily it just feels like a ship in a storm getting thrashed around with no captain at the helm, just getting flung all over.

3) Tales of TWD has been shockingly bad at times. The second episode in particular was astonishingly awful. I couldn't believe how badly written each episode was. Even the fractions of episodes that were okay were ruined by the chunks that were awful. Proper garbage.

4) Yep. Strand is a prime example of how FearTWD has always been hugely inconsistent in its writing and characterisation. That character has flip-flopped more times than a gasping fish washed up on the shore of a medical waste dump. How they angled him in seasons 6 and 7 was particularly fucking stupid, and then comes the inevitable flip-flop back to 'being kind good/regretful' yet again.


Rosita doesnt age and she is just gorgeous.

Oh, you and your Rosita crush. :p :lol: :D

- - - Updated - - -

Right, so I've watched 11x18 as well. :) Yarrr!

Very pleased to see that little shit weasel Milton's son get chomped. :elol: Delicious!

[Neil]

So here we go ... the final eight episodes of TWD are upon us!

11x17 "Lockdown".

Directed by: Greg Nicotero
Written by: Julia Ruchman

Only just realised I was only up to about ep10 I'd got so bored with the series...

[Neil]

OK! Up to date and enjoying it at the moment :)

[facestabber]

OK! Up to date and enjoying it at the moment :)

I guess I’m an episode ahead with 11-19 Variant so I won’t speak of it. Many moving parts. Many story lines. Some interesting, some not. I really liked the idea in “variant”. Adds more danger and that’s awesome. As long as they don’t take it too far.

[Neil]

I guess I’m an episode ahead with 11-19 Variant so I won’t speak of it. Many moving parts. Many story lines. Some interesting, some not. I really liked the idea in “variant”. Adds more danger and that’s awesome. As long as they don’t take it too far.

How are you an episode ahead? That one isn't out until this weekend?

[MinionZombie]

How are you an episode ahead? That one isn't out until this weekend?

AMC+ shows new episodes a week early - although when it comes to the finale there will be a two week gap so AMC and AMC+ will be viewing it at the same time.

[Neil]

AMC+ shows new episodes a week early - although when it comes to the finale there will be a two week gap so AMC and AMC+ will be viewing it at the same time.

Hmmm... Surprised no sign of the episodes on yarrrrrrrrrrrrrrr sources then.

[MinionZombie]

Hmmm... Surprised no sign of the episodes on yarrrrrrrrrrrrrrr sources then.

Except they are there (although it should've been there yesterday - t'was delayed for some reason).

I'll be catching up with 11x19 tonight. ;) Will have to wait two weeks for the finale, though, so I'll just check that out on Disney+ (which is showing the episodes in-pace with AMC not AMC+).

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, watched 11x19...

The "variant" walker is a tricky thing to get into at this point in time. We've gone all this way into the ZA without ever seeing any kind of variant of walker, and then now out of the blue one shows up? Why? How? What?

Obviously they're wanting something to spice things up a little, and I think I read something about there being talk of a 'variant' in that World Beyond horse shite towards the end, right???

Fortunately, the way they did it in the episode wasn't too bad and worked a lot better than I'd feared. It actually felt like a bit of a Hinzman zombie in many ways - they even had it pick up a rock to use as a weapon/tool - but at the same time, we've gone all this time without any variants.

Sure, the first few episodes - particularly "Guts" had some ... ... 'inconsistent' walkers (climbing a fence, for instance) and some shots had them going a bit too brisk, but the show was in its infancy and they hadn't quite settled on their vibe fully at that point and certain details, like climbing over a ruddy fence, were ditched entirely never to be seen again.

Also - it was well funny when Eugene was getting all ballsy with Daryl, who just stood there doing absolutely nothing. :lol:

[Harleydude666]

Except they are there (although it should've been there yesterday - t'was delayed for some reason).

I'll be catching up with 11x19 tonight. ;) Will have to wait two weeks for the finale, though, so I'll just check that out on Disney+ (which is showing the episodes in-pace with AMC not AMC+).

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, watched 11x19...

The "variant" walker is a tricky thing to get into at this point in time. We've gone all this way into the ZA without ever seeing any kind of variant of walker, and then now out of the blue one shows up? Why? How? What?

Obviously they're wanting something to spice things up a little, and I think I read something about there being talk of a 'variant' in that World Beyond horse shite towards the end, right???

Fortunately, the way they did it in the episode wasn't too bad and worked a lot better than I'd feared. It actually felt like a bit of a Hinzman zombie in many ways - they even had it pick up a rock to use as a weapon/tool - but at the same time, we've gone all this time without any variants.

Sure, the first few episodes - particularly "Guts" had some ... ... 'inconsistent' walkers (climbing a fence, for instance) and some shots had them going a bit too brisk, but the show was in its infancy and they hadn't quite settled on their vibe fully at that point and certain details, like climbing over a ruddy fence, were ditched entirely never to be seen again.

Also - it was well funny when Eugene was getting all ballsy with Daryl, who just stood there doing absolutely nothing. :lol:

Variant Walker was explained in World Beyond at the end of the last episode and it did makes sense. And I guess that’s why Daryl is going to France

[shootemindehead]

Hmmm... Surprised no sign of the episodes on yarrrrrrrrrrrrrrr sources then.

Ye aren't sailin the proper seas ye scurvy swine.

1530

[JDP]

TWD is not really "ending" with this season, it's just splitting into three separate shows. This is the producers just "milking the zombie cow" still further.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQYYEJpQbwX4WX3I-1qsU8EVz-TLAMQv-ElUw&usqp=CAU

[Neil]

The variant walker reminds me of the cemetary zombie in NotLD. It was far more 'with it' than traditional Romero zombies.

The other thing I've noticed about recent TWD episodes, is when they now 'gore up' to walk through zombie herds, in the old days they had to gore up all over, alot... Now? A couple of dabs on their arms, and they're seemingly good to go :)

EDIT: A good episode BTW!

[MinionZombie]

The variant walker reminds me of the cemetary zombie in NotLD. It was far more 'with it' than traditional Romero zombies.

The other thing I've noticed about recent TWD episodes, is when they now 'gore up' to walk through zombie herds, in the old days they had to gore up all over, alot... Now? A couple of dabs on their arms, and they're seemingly good to go :)

They still put on more than FearTWD was doing at some points, where it was literally a couple of thin smears - and they did it so often on that show that it was just really silly.

Speaking of gore - there's been a lot more gore in the gory moments on TWD lately. Season 9 ramped it back up again and we've had some really good moments here in season 11 as well - yanking off the variant's facial mask was pretty darn awesome.

Also - I've noticed they've dropped a couple of "fucks" in the dialogue, too. Does this get censored out on AMC (as opposed to AMC+), either by using an alternative take or dipping the sound, or are they actually putting the fucks in on the main broadcast, too? The aversion to "fuck" on mainstream American TV is just baffling to me, like, grow up already. Blood and guts everywhere, but for so long nobody could say "fuck"? You might say what the fuck?

[Neil]

Also - I've noticed they've dropped a couple of "fucks" in the dialogue, too. Does this get censored out on AMC (as opposed to AMC+), either by using an alternative take or dipping the sound, or are they actually putting the fucks in on the main broadcast, too? The aversion to "fuck" on mainstream American TV is just baffling to me, like, grow up already. Blood and guts everywhere, but for so long nobody could say "fuck"? You might say what the fuck?

I seem to remember we had that strange situation in the UK a while back where I think the 9pm showing would risk cuts, but then the showing immediately after at 10pm wouldn't?

[MinionZombie]

I seem to remember we had that strange situation in the UK a while back where I think the 9pm showing would risk cuts, but then the showing immediately after at 10pm wouldn't?

Yeah, Fox would air it at 9pm, but if there was any major gore in the first 15-30 minutes it'd get cut. I recall seeing one such clip that took place in the opening minutes of an episode, where Rick and Carl are in the woods, and there's some random guy staggering about who attracts the attention of a bunch of walkers, and he gets torn apart while Rick stops Carl from trying to help save the guy - on Fox in the UK, at 9pm, that was cut to absolute ribbons, and the edit wasn't done well either.

Then at 10pm it was Talking Dead, then at 11pm it was the re-showing of TWD, at which point it was uncut.

Really daft. Despite the 9pm watershed, you can't just jump straight into fucks, cunts, and splattery gruesomeness at 9:01pm - there's a degree of 'easing in' that is required, apparently, in case any dawdling kids see something 'too much' as they're trudging off to beddy-byes. :rolleyes:

Of course, with TWD now being on Disney+ in the UK, there's no such issue - but also no Talking Dead either.

[Moon Knight]

Three episodes in and zero sense of urgency. You wouldn’t think the show is ending.

[MinionZombie]

Three episodes in and zero sense of urgency. You wouldn’t think the show is ending.

Hmmm ... I somewhat agree, but somewhat disagree as well.

I think less time bothering with the cookie cutter religious zealot soldier leader guy and more time on the Commonwealth would've helped explore that whole new community more. I feel as if the Commonwealth hasn't quite had enough screen time to really explore it enough. We could have done with it being introduced properly in season 10, come to think of it, say mid-way through, and tightened up the Whisperers storyline.

We've only got five episodes left, so I am kinda wondering where things are leading ... where's the big stuff, you know? It kinda needs to feel a little bit bigger as these are the finale episodes of TWD (the main show) and not just another back-half of a season.

That said, there's still a lot going on and we're getting more juice out of the Commonwealth politics, but I do think it could've been overall integrated better over more time, first at a distance and then pulling in closer and closer as the communities get seduced into the collective, then you start peeling back the layers of artifice and sewing seeds of discontent with recently joined-up communities.

TWD's various communities and sprawling cast has given scope, but it's also brought about its fair share of problems trying to juggle all these balls flying about.

[Moon Knight]

Definitely not bad episodes, to me, just doesn’t feel like the endgame. For sure agree with MZ about the scope of cast and locations, it’s a double edge sword.

[Neil]

^ A good summary :)

[Suicycho]

It’s been quite awhile since I’ve posted but I’ve always been lurking the past 20 years.

Anyway, the variant talk got me to post. They may be new to TWD but Romero always had zombies that could climb ladders. Use of tools was mentioned on one of the news casts in Dawn. Flyboy opened the door into the main hideout right before Peter put a bullet through his head.

I’m not even going to get into the zombie abilities in Land.

[MinionZombie]

To be fair, though, that was Romero's zombies, whereas in TWD they kinda went with their own version. They're trying to introduce that 'going to places they were familiar with' aspect in this most recent episode, but that's never really been explored at all - we've just had any old walker any old where.

This is another element that could have been better implemented over a longer period of time, at least beginning in season ten - hell, they could have ditched that awful train car episode and done an episode about a variant walker(s) to better establish the notion.

It's a slightly clumsy way to retcon things a bit. Outside of season one we've not really had any of that sort of stuff. Romero had it from the get-go and explored it more and more as the films went on, so it made much more sense and was part of the DNA of his zombie films.

TWD are coming at this too late in their own game, even if I did enjoy the variant walker. Makes you think how the rest of the show would have been affected if all the walkers were like that from episode one.

[facestabber]

It’s been quite awhile since I’ve posted but I’ve always been lurking the past 20 years.

Anyway, the variant talk got me to post. They may be new to TWD but Romero always had zombies that could climb ladders. Use of tools was mentioned on one of the news casts in Dawn. Flyboy opened the door into the main hideout right before Peter put a bullet through his head.

I’m not even going to get into the zombie abilities in Land.

Yep. All good points. And they didn’t even do anything over the top with it. It appears the walkers are thinking, processing and strategizing to an extent. But it didn’t seem atrocious as in the not to mention Land.

[MinionZombie]

Yep. All good points. And they didn’t even do anything over the top with it. It appears the walkers are thinking, processing and strategizing to an extent. But it didn’t seem atrocious as in the not to mention Land.

Land gets a bad rap. I felt it picked up the baton left by Day of the Dead made sense. Was it occasionally a bit wibbly-wobbly in how it was deployed? Sure, but it wasn't outside the realm of how Romero was progressing his zombies.

Bub literally cries for his fallen master/friend and seeks revenge.

[Neil]

Land gets a bad rap. I felt it picked up the baton left by Day of the Dead made sense. Was it occasionally a bit wibbly-wobbly in how it was deployed? Sure, but it wasn't outside the realm of how Romero was progressing his zombies.

Bub literally cries for his fallen master/friend and seeks revenge.

Land started soooo well, and then just lost its way IMHO.

And, the whole notion - which of course The Walking Dead has just touched on - of the US currency being worth anything after the outbreak seems bonkers to me...

[MinionZombie]

Land started soooo well, and then just lost its way IMHO.

And, the whole notion - which of course The Walking Dead has just touched on - of the US currency being worth anything after the outbreak seems bonkers to me...

I don't understand why some folks have such a hard time with that. It's a monetary system that anyone living already knows and understands and even holds some value in, much like the shiny flashy consumer items that people gather up in both Dawn and Land despite the apocalypse.

In Land, Kauffman and his cronies are from the old world and are attempting to re-establish the old world order, which involves the use of a financial system - and, naturally, they're going to use the old system that they already had control over (and no doubt had hoarded their cash, protecting it jealously for the past three years).

It's a similar reason why Kauffman sets up games and vices to entertain the poor masses and keep them distracted. It's why rare items of luxury are coveted by people like Cholo, why acquiring them is worth risking one's life (or the lives of others).

[JDP]

I don't understand why some folks have such a hard time with that. It's a monetary system that anyone living already knows and understands and even holds some value in, much like the shiny flashy consumer items that people gather up in both Dawn and Land despite the apocalypse.

In Land, Kauffman and his cronies are from the old world and are attempting to re-establish the old world order, which involves the use of a financial system - and, naturally, they're going to use the old system that they already had control over (and no doubt had hoarded their cash, protecting it jealously for the past three years).

It's a similar reason why Kauffman sets up games and vices to entertain the poor masses and keep them distracted. It's why rare items of luxury are coveted by people like Cholo, why acquiring them is worth risking one's life (or the lives of others).

Baloney. This has already been pointed out and explained a bunch of times in other threads. Kaufman and his cronies are simply trying to cling to and continue things as they were before the zombies showed up, there hasn't been any "stop" to that "old world" yet, so nothing to "re-establish", it is already there and still working. That's why money still has some value at such a stage in the zombie crisis. The beginning of the movie even clearly implies that such outposts are being established at a time when the media is still around broadcasting news. They are nothing "from the future" but things from the past, which are trying to cling to that past for as long as possible. All very different from what we see in Day, where that "old world" and its financial system is truly long gone, money being nothing but just more garbage and debris on the streets where now only the dead and wild animals roam.

[facestabber]

Land gets a bad rap. I felt it picked up the baton left by Day of the Dead made sense. Was it occasionally a bit wibbly-wobbly in how it was deployed? Sure, but it wasn't outside the realm of how Romero was progressing his zombies.

Bub literally cries for his fallen master/friend and seeks revenge.

Didn’t Bub feel natural though? I’m not gonna pretend I don’t hate Land, I do. Actually I felt embarrassed leaving the theater. Bub was rudimentary and child like and he certainly wasn’t the norm of zombies. Bub was the exception as Logan said, he had to destroy the others.

I do agree as I reflect on Land that it wasn’t a surprising depiction/progression from day. George was George after all. The original script was even more wacky.

[JDP]

Didn’t Bub feel natural though? I’m not gonna pretend I don’t hate Land, I do. Actually I felt embarrassed leaving the theater. Bub was rudimentary and child like and he certainly wasn’t the norm of zombies. Bub was the exception as Logan said, he had to destroy the others.

I do agree as I reflect on Land that it wasn’t a surprising depiction/progression from day. George was George after all. The original script was even more wacky.

What "progression from Day"? There isn't any. There is only one "smarter" zombie in Land too, and he does not do anything that "Bub" didn't do either. The only thing we did not see "Bub" do was to "lead" the other zombies somewhere, but that was because the movie ends soon after he becomes free. We have no idea what did he do after those events. Maybe he eventually led the mob of zombies out of the bunker. Plus we even saw zombified "Flyboy" in Dawn lead a pack of zombies all the way to the upper rooms in the mall. There is nothing really "new" in Land in this respect.

[facestabber]

What "progression from Day"? There isn't any. There is only one "smarter" zombie in Land too, and he does not do anything that "Bub" didn't do either. The only thing we did not see "Bub" do was to "lead" the other zombies somewhere, but that was because the movie ends soon after he becomes free. We have no idea what did he do after those events. Maybe he eventually led the mob of zombies out of the bunker. Plus we even saw zombified "Flyboy" in Dawn lead a pack of zombies all the way to the upper rooms in the mall. There is nothing really "new" in Land in this respect.

I would look at Big daddy audibly calling(grunting) toward the hand holding zombie couple to see the living and go after them. Bub was conditioned/coached Big daddy wasnt. I see big daddy is a much higher functioning zombie than Bub. The entire scene with Kaufman in the limo. That’s a progression imo. I can’t really speculate on what wasn’t shown when the movie ends. Ofcourse Bub made a cameo in Season 4 of TWD so it looks like he did escape the mine. hahaha. Just my observations.

[shootemindehead]

I don't understand why some folks have such a hard time with that. It's a monetary system that anyone living already knows and understands and even holds some value in, much like the shiny flashy consumer items that people gather up in both Dawn and Land despite the apocalypse.

In Land, Kauffman and his cronies are from the old world and are attempting to re-establish the old world order, which involves the use of a financial system - and, naturally, they're going to use the old system that they already had control over (and no doubt had hoarded their cash, protecting it jealously for the past three years).

It's a similar reason why Kauffman sets up games and vices to entertain the poor masses and keep them distracted. It's why rare items of luxury are coveted by people like Cholo, why acquiring them is worth risking one's life (or the lives of others).

I don't understand why some people cannot get their head around the money thing either. Kaufmann's entire raison d'etre is the establishment of a new order based on the old norms with him at the helm of course. The fact that he's using old world currency as a viable trade commodity in Fiddler's Green makes sense. Outside of the city, of course, the money is worthless. But inside the confines of the city walls, it can still be used to buy stuff and the denizens of the Green are slaves to it in their various social strata. As long as people are willing to trade using a currency, it'll be a viable option.

But that's the point of Fiddler's Green. It's an enclave that has managed to be built up during the apocalypse, when most other places have gone to shit. But they live in their own particular enclosed world. Some of the people there probably don't even leave the walls of the city, instead relying on the plebs to go and do the hard, and sometimes, dirty work.

[JDP]

I would look at Big daddy audibly calling(grunting) toward the hand holding zombie couple to see the living and go after them. Bub was conditioned/coached Big daddy wasnt. I see big daddy is a much higher functioning zombie than Bub. The entire scene with Kaufman in the limo. That’s a progression imo. I can’t really speculate on what wasn’t shown when the movie ends. Ofcourse Bub made a cameo in Season 4 of TWD so it looks like he did escape the mine. hahaha. Just my observations.

Zombie Flyboy also made gestures and noises, which seem to signal the other zombies to follow him. "Bub" did not have a chance to do such things since the movie ends soon after he gains his freedom and comes into contact with other zombies again. Also, unlike "Big Daddy", whom we only see grunting and growling, "Bub" actually manages to utter a few words of intelligible speech. Don't really see much of any "progression" between any of these "smarter than usual" zombies in Romero's movies. They all seem to pretty much be capable of doing things that are uncommon for the average zombies.

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I don't understand why some people cannot get their head around the money thing either.

Because such "explanations" don't make much sense. If things were such, then the extortion money that Cholo demands from Kaufman would be totally useless for him, for example. It doesn't make any sense that he would demand it if he does not have other places he can go to to enjoy it. He would have been better off demanding large amounts of food and supplies from Kaufman, not money. The movie, therefore, implies that money still has value even in places outside of Kaufman's reach. Such outposts as his' are nothing from some future events, but relics from the past that have managed to linger on, that's why they still place some value on money. The movie itself also implies that the outposts are being established soon after the pesky zombies show up and start to wreak havoc on society, not at some distant future events.

[MinionZombie]

I don't understand why some people cannot get their head around the money thing either. Kaufmann's entire raison d'etre is the establishment of a new order based on the old norms with him at the helm of course. The fact that he's using old world currency as a viable trade commodity in Fiddler's Green makes sense. Outside of the city, of course, the money is worthless. But inside the confines of the city walls, it can still be used to buy stuff and the denizens of the Green are slaves to it in their various social strata. As long as people are willing to trade using a currency, it'll be a viable option.

But that's the point of Fiddler's Green. It's an enclave that has managed to be built up during the apocalypse, when most other places have gone to shit. But they live in their own particular enclosed world. Some of the people there probably don't even leave the walls of the city, instead relying on the plebs to go and do the hard, and sometimes, dirty work.

YES!

https://c.tenor.com/ZUCKsGlgiFsAAAAC/buster-keaton-blow-kiss.gif


Zombie Flyboy also made gestures and noises, which seem to signal the other zombies to follow him. "Bub" did not have a chance to do such things since the movie ends soon after he gains his freedom and comes into contact with other zombies again. Also, unlike "Big Daddy", whom we only see grunting and growling, "Bub" actually manages to utter a few words of intelligible speech. Don't really see much of any "progression" between any of these "smarter than usual" zombies in Romero's movies. They all seem to pretty much be capable of doing things that are uncommon for the average zombies.

And yet you've never argued that Dawn takes place after Day or Land. :p

Big Daddy's progression is all witnessed in his actions. Had he been coaxed into speaking lessons by some crazed scientist then he'd have no doubt managed to learn short sentences and then use them at his own will. Thankfully we didn't see that, but it could have happened.


Because such "explanations" don't make much sense. If things were such, then the extortion money that Cholo demands from Kaufman would be totally useless for him, for example. It doesn't make any sense that he would demand it if he does not have other places he can go to to enjoy it. He would have been better off demanding large amounts of food and supplies from Kaufman, not money. The movie, therefore, implies that money still has value even in places outside of Kaufman's reach. Such outposts as his' are nothing from some future events, but relics from the past that have managed to linger on, that's why they still place some value on money. The movie itself also implies that the outposts are being established soon after the pesky zombies show up and start to wreak havoc on society, not at some distant future events.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/7dbbc2d1521874a947d6626c5dde9156/tumblr_myrc3iWolq1rdfgw4o3_r1_400.gifv

[shootemindehead]

Because such "explanations" don't make much sense. If things were such, then the extortion money that Cholo demands from Kaufman would be totally useless for him, for example. It doesn't make any sense that he would demand it if he does not have other places he can go to to enjoy it. He would have been better off demanding large amounts of food and supplies from Kaufman, not money.

Cholo ain't that smart though is he? If he had a bit of nous, he would have figured that Kauffman was playing him for a sap a long time ago. All Cholo can see is that money is his way out, which is why he's doing Kauffman's dirty work and hoping to get enough so he can get a flat in Fiddler's Green and live like the "other half" do. He doesn't really know that there isn't any other enclaves like Fiddler's Green out there. How could he. He has no real idea that money, in all probability, can't buy him what he needs in another part of the country. But in the words of Peter from 'Dawn of the Dead', you never know. Plus, clinging to the old world is all that he understands. In addition, money is what makes Fiddler's Green go around as per Kauffman's oligarchic mechanisations. But Cholo is at the bottom of the ladder and has been all his life, even before the shit hit the fan. He only sees money as his way up that ladder, not recognising that all the time the guy at the top of the ladder will be the one to kick it away as soon as he takes the first step up.

It was the basic essence of Romero's allegory for Fiddler's Green in the first place.


The movie, therefore, implies that money still has value even in places outside of Kaufman's reach.

It doesn't "imply" any such thing. All that we see is someone hoping that money can buy them what they want elsewhere because that's what it did before things went south. What the movie actually tells us, however, is that this is now the LAND of the dead. The clue is, literally, in the title. The dead are in the ascendency and human beings are very much the second class in this new world because of the fact that they are still clinging to the old ways of doing things. Romero's entire message through his quad of dead movies is that humans could overcome the odds if they were to co-operate. The situations in each film bear this out, from Night to Land. The humans fail because they cannot relinquish the old ways and remain at odds with one another, allowing the zombies to win every time.

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YES!

https://c.tenor.com/ZUCKsGlgiFsAAAAC/buster-keaton-blow-kiss.gif


https://64.media.tumblr.com/7dbbc2d1521874a947d6626c5dde9156/tumblr_myrc3iWolq1rdfgw4o3_r1_400.gifv


Somebody's been watching a lot of Buster Keaton movies lately.

[JDP]

And yet you've never argued that Dawn takes place after Day or Land. :p

Because that's the kind of very flimsy argumentation that you actually try to use for such discussions. To me it just shows that some of the zombies seem a bit "smarter" than the average. I don't jump to conclusions regarding any nonexistent evidence for any "progression".


Big Daddy's progression is all witnessed in his actions.

None of which were outside the scope of what we see "Bub" and even zombified Stephen do.


Had he been coaxed into speaking lessons by some crazed scientist then he'd have no doubt managed to learn short sentences and then use them at his own will. Thankfully we didn't see that, but it could have happened.

By the same token, had "Bub" had had the chance to keep interacting with other zombies we would no doubt have also seen him manage to "lead" the other zombies to places.

- - - Updated - - -


Cholo ain't that smart though is he? If he had a bit of nous, he would have figured that Kauffman was playing him for a sap a long time ago. All Cholo can see is that money is his way out, which is why he's doing Kauffman's dirty work and hoping to get enough so he can get a flat in Fiddler's Green and live like the "other half" do. He doesn't really know that there isn't any other enclaves like Fiddler's Green out there. How could he. He has no real idea that money, in all probability, can't buy him what he needs in another part of the country. But in the words of Peter from 'Dawn of the Dead', you never know. Plus, clinging to the old world is all that he understands. In addition, money is what makes Fiddler's Green go around as per Kauffman's oligarchic mechanisations. But Cholo is at the bottom of the ladder and has been all his life, even before the shit hit the fan. He only sees money as his way up that ladder, not recognising that all the time the guy at the top of the ladder will be the one to kick it away as soon as he takes the first step up.

It was the basic essence of Romero's allegory for Fiddler's Green in the first place.

Cholo is certainly smart enough to have given Kaufman "a run for his money" (pun fully intended.) He stole his "super-vehicle" and then threatened to blow his headquarters to smithereens with it if he is not paid what he demands. This brings us back to the main issue: why is Cholo demanding money, and not something like food, ammo and medical supplies? If money only has value in Kaufman's turf, his plan is beyond moronic and totally self-defeating, as he won't be able to use it anywhere else except the very places where he has become a "wanted" man. And yes, Cholo knows that there are other outposts out there that Kaufman does not control. One of them is specifically mentioned in the movie. So, he must be aware that he can use that money elsewhere other than Kaufman's. The whole plot of the movie does not make any iota of sense if that was not the case. Kaufman himself could easily put Cholo in his place simply by telling him: "Listen, you dolt, what the hell are you going to do with all that money? Where are you going to be able to use it except in my domains, you moron!" But we don't see Kaufman or his cronies using such arguments when Cholo issues the threat and demand. Some want Kaufman to pay him the money, while Kaufman refuses to do so. Nobody points out that Cholo's actions do not make any sense whatsoever. They take the guy and his demand for money very seriously. So, not only do Cholo's actions clearly imply that money must still have value outside of Kaufman's turf, but even the reactions of Kaufman & company also imply the same. Unless you also want to argue that Cholo isn't the only one who isn't very smart, but even Kaufman & company aren't that smart or aware of the situation either!

[Neil]

I don't understand why some people cannot get their head around the money thing either. Kaufmann's entire raison d'etre is the establishment of a new order based on the old norms with him at the helm of course. The fact that he's using old world currency as a viable trade commodity in Fiddler's Green makes sense. Outside of the city, of course, the money is worthless. But inside the confines of the city walls, it can still be used to buy stuff and the denizens of the Green are slaves to it in their various social strata. As long as people are willing to trade using a currency, it'll be a viable option.

Because people need only find the bucket loads of money in local shops, businesses, banks, security trucks, under mattresses etc and return to the city to now be one of the richest people... There's so much of it outside the Green, it's value in the Green is uncontrollable.

[JDP]

Because people need only find the bucket loads of money in local shops, businesses, banks, security trucks, under mattresses etc and return to the city to now be one of the richest people... There's so much of it outside the Green, it's value in the Green is uncontrollable.

That's assuming that there is much of it still left out there within easy grasp at the time the movie takes place. Since money still has value at this point, it is safe to assume that looters have already appropriated a lot of it. Like we see the bikers do in Dawn, for example. By the time of the events in Day, though, evidently money is just pretty much useless stuff that no one still left around bothers with anymore. It no longer has any use.

[MinionZombie]

Let's not forget this is the thread for TWD, yeah?

11x20:
Enjoyed seeing Lance killed off, that grubby bugger. Hopefully we'll see him shambling around the wasteland somewhere.

Seems our captured chums are heading to some sort of forced labour camp ... wonder if anyone else might be there. Hey, wouldn't it be random if Heath suddenly showed up after all these years? :lol:

Only four episodes left.

...


Somebody's been watching a lot of Buster Keaton movies lately.

:lol:

How'd you guess? :D I just watched two of his films these past couple of days. "Sherlock Jr." and "Seven Chances". They're on Prime/FreeVee. Watched "The General" recently as well. Buster's my guy from the silent era.


Because people need only find the bucket loads of money in local shops, businesses, banks, security trucks, under mattresses etc and return to the city to now be one of the richest people... There's so much of it outside the Green, it's value in the Green is uncontrollable.

Assuming said money hasn't already been half-inched by other people, likely in the early days of the zombie apocalypse - so local shops and businesses would probably have empty registers. Under mattresses? What is this, the 1920s? Also - which mattresses? You're going to roam from home to home with zombies everywhere? Come on now. Security trucks ... not as easy as you might think, and that's assuming you can even find one. I'd imagine as things were crumbling there'd not be many (or any) security trucks going around picking up cash, especially if robberies were on the increase (which, again, would be quite likely). They'd probably cancel any pick ups 'for the time being', not realising that the end of civilisation was coming.

As for banks - you'd need to know how to open the vault. Do you know how to do that? Nope, and most people don't either, do they? :D

[Neil]

Let's not forget this is the thread for TWD, yeah?

11x20:
Enjoyed seeing Lance killed off, that grubby bugger. Hopefully we'll see him shambling around the wasteland somewhere.

Seems our captured chums are heading to some sort of forced labour camp ... wonder if anyone else might be there. Hey, wouldn't it be random if Heath suddenly showed up after all these years? :lol:

Only four episodes left.

Yeh, going to have to move quickly now... Enjoying it.

[shootemindehead]

Cholo is certainly smart enough to have given Kaufman "a run for his money" (pun fully intended.) He stole his "super-vehicle" and then threatened to blow his headquarters to smithereens with it if he is not paid what he demands. This brings us back to the main issue: why is Cholo demanding money, and not something like food, ammo and medical supplies? If money only has value in Kaufman's turf, his plan is beyond moronic and totally self-defeating, as he won't be able to use it anywhere else except the very places where he has become a "wanted" man. And yes, Cholo knows that there are other outposts out there that Kaufman does not control. One of them is specifically mentioned in the movie. So, he must be aware that he can use that money elsewhere other than Kaufman's. The whole plot of the movie does not make any iota of sense if that was not the case. Kaufman himself could easily put Cholo in his place simply by telling him: "Listen, you dolt, what the hell are you going to do with all that money? Where are you going to be able to use it except in my domains, you moron!" But we don't see Kaufman or his cronies using such arguments when Cholo issues the threat and demand. Some want Kaufman to pay him the money, while Kaufman refuses to do so. Nobody points out that Cholo's actions do not make any sense whatsoever. They take the guy and his demand for money very seriously. So, not only do Cholo's actions clearly imply that money must still have value outside of Kaufman's turf, but even the reactions of Kaufman & company also imply the same. Unless you also want to argue that Cholo isn't the only one who isn't very smart, but even Kaufman & company aren't that smart or aware of the situation either!

There's fuck all smart about nicking a car, nor is there anything especially smart about blowing the crap out of the only enclave for miles around that has the ability to defend itself. Cholo is a bloody moron and morons tend to do stupid things. Demanding money in the hope that it might be of value somewhere else, even if he could find somewhere else, is exactly the type of thing a moron like Cholo would do. Because that's his be all/end all way of thinking.

The contrast between him and the smarter Riley Dembo couldn't be clearer. If Cholo could only let his obsession with money go, he could have simply headed to Canada like Dembo wanted to. Although why Denbo wants to go to Canada is never confirmed AFAIR. But Cholo probably thinks that he can set up somewhere else and do what Kaufmann did in Fiddler's Green. Kaufmann, when he does a runner after Big Daddy's gang makes their assault is, more than likely, thinking the same thing. After all he's done it once already.

Also, it's only YOU who is seeing any kind of implications in 'Land of the Dead' that there's other places still using money. There's absolutely nothing on the screen that confirms your interpretations, though, and no dialogue to suggest that there's anywhere else even intact, never mind employing cash like Fiddler's Green does. There might well be. In fact Kaufmann may have set up other safe areas like he did with the Green. But nothing in the film supports that in any way.

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Because people need only find the bucket loads of money in local shops, businesses, banks, security trucks, under mattresses etc and return to the city to now be one of the richest people... There's so much of it outside the Green, it's value in the Green is uncontrollable.

Well, as the others have said, this assumes that it hasn't already been taken by other people when the shit hit the fan.

1531

[MinionZombie]

Although why Denbo wants to go to Canada is never confirmed AFAIR.

Also, it's only YOU who is seeing any kind of implications in 'Land of the Dead' that there's other places still using money. There's absolutely nothing on the screen that confirms your interpretations, though, and no dialogue to suggest that there's anywhere else even intact, never mind employing cash like Fiddler's Green does. There might well be. In fact Kaufmann may have set up other safe areas like he did with the Green. But nothing in the film supports that in any way.

1) I believe the idea is that it'd be much less populated by zombies than the USA. Plus, the colder weather - so frozen zombies or it'd turn away zombies - but a lower population would also mean fewer zombies anyway (not so much food, they wander off etc).

2) I'm pretty sure Kauffman mentions that he set up other similar locations (at least one, if not two or three). I also seem to recall that there is mention that they lost contact with one or more, for what reason we don't know. I also think that Kauffman's initial plan in escaping is to head to one of the other locations in his modest network of 'safe cities'.

[JDP]

There's fuck all smart about nicking a car, nor is there anything especially smart about blowing the crap out of the only enclave for miles around that has the ability to defend itself. Cholo is a bloody moron and morons tend to do stupid things. Demanding money in the hope that it might be of value somewhere else, even if he could find somewhere else, is exactly the type of thing a moron like Cholo would do. Because that's his be all/end all way of thinking.

The contrast between him and the smarter Riley Dembo couldn't be clearer. If Cholo could only let his obsession with money go, he could have simply headed to Canada like Dembo wanted to. Although why Denbo wants to go to Canada is never confirmed AFAIR. But Cholo probably thinks that he can set up somewhere else and do what Kaufmann did in Fiddler's Green. Kaufmann, when he does a runner after Big Daddy's gang makes their assault is, more than likely, thinking the same thing. After all he's done it once already.

Oh, yes, Riley, who wants to go all the way into the Canadian wilderness in... a regular car, no less! Yes, "brilliant" plan, really. Notice the surprised reaction of Kaufman when he learns of Riley's weird "plan" and requests. Very different from his reaction to Cholo's, whom he takes very seriously and does not want to grant his demand by any means. Riley's is hilariously easy to fulfill, so he readily accepts that one. It doesn't bother Kaufman at all. If Riley is crazy enough to want to take such a chance, let him; it's his neck he is risking, not anyone else's. Nothing in this movie suggests that Cholo is an idiot who is not aware of what the current situation is. He is a greedy fellow, but definitely not a retard. He would not be demanding money if he wasn't sure he could use it in a way that Kaufman cannot interfere with afterwards, and the only way that can happen is if money can also be used in areas outside of Kaufman's control.


Also, it's only YOU who is seeing any kind of implications in 'Land of the Dead' that there's other places still using money. There's absolutely nothing on the screen that confirms your interpretations, though, and no dialogue to suggest that there's anywhere else even intact, never mind employing cash like Fiddler's Green does. There might well be. In fact Kaufmann may have set up other safe areas like he did with the Green. But nothing in the film supports that in any way.

It seems like it is rather YOU who doesn't want to see the implications in all of what we see in this movie regarding money and people's desire & actions to possess and control it, which only make sense if money still has value in many places, not just some isolated enclave. The implications are most certainly there, and not only in Cholo's actions, but those of Kaufman & company as well. Who, BTW, definitely have set up other areas also under their control. This is not any "speculation" or even a necessary implication, it is clearly established in the movie. Plus the fact that there also are other places out there that are not run by Kaufman & company is clearly implied in the movie as well.

[shootemindehead]

1) I believe the idea is that it'd be much less populated by zombies than the USA. Plus, the colder weather - so frozen zombies or it'd turn away zombies - but a lower population would also mean fewer zombies anyway (not so much food, they wander off etc).

2) I'm pretty sure Kauffman mentions that he set up other similar locations (at least one, if not two or three). I also seem to recall that there is mention that they lost contact with one or more, for what reason we don't know. I also think that Kauffman's initial plan in escaping is to head to one of the other locations in his modest network of 'safe cities'.

Yeh, maybe that's it. I remember reading a bio of Kauffman years ago and it stated that he had used his clout to set up a number of safe zones years before the events of 'Land of the Dead'. But I couldn't recall whether these were still in operation. I sorta remembered vaguely that it's said in a bit of dialogue that comms were out with one of them. But I wasn't sure.

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Oh, yes, Riley, who wants to go all the way into the Canadian wilderness in... a regular car, no less! Yes, "brilliant" plan, really. Notice the surprised reaction of Kaufman when he learns of Riley's weird "plan" and requests. Very different from his reaction to Cholo's, whom he takes very seriously and does not want to grant his demand by any means. Riley's is hilariously easy to fulfill, so he readily accepts that one. It doesn't bother Kaufman at all. If Riley is crazy enough to want to take such a chance, let him; it's his neck he is risking, not anyone else's. Nothing in this movie suggests that Cholo is an idiot who is not aware of what the current situation is. He is a greedy fellow, but definitely not a retard. He would not be demanding money if he wasn't sure he could use it in a way that Kaufman cannot interfere with afterwards, and the only way that can happen is if money can also be used in areas outside of Kaufman's control.



It seems like it is rather YOU who doesn't want to see the implications in all of what we see in this movie regarding money and people's desire & actions to possess and control it, which only make sense if money still has value in many places, not just some isolated enclave. The implications are most certainly there, and not only in Cholo's actions, but those of Kaufman & company as well. Who, BTW, definitely have set up other areas also under their control. This is not any "speculation" or even a necessary implication, it is clearly established in the movie. Plus the fact that there also are other places out there that are not run by Kaufman & company is clearly implied in the movie as well.

Whatever. :rolleyes:

You can have things your way and see what you want to see.

The rest of us will just watch the actual film.

[JDP]

Whatever. :rolleyes:

You can have things your way and see what you want to see.

The rest of us will just watch the actual film.

Which you should actually do, as you obviously are not remembering it well.

PS: on top of what has already been pointed out, Cholo isn't even acting alone, he has several accomplices, none of which question or point out any supposed futility in his plans, except Foxy, and you know what is his only worry about the whole thing? That "Kaufman might not pay", LOL! Foxy is not worried at all about where are they going to go to next to be able to use that money, he's worried that greedy ol' Kaufman is just not gonna let go of all that dough even under the threat of blowing up "his castle". I guess you will also try to argue that the entire cast of characters must also be a bunch of idiots who are not aware that money only has value in Kaufman's turf.

[shootemindehead]

I guess you will also try to argue that the entire cast of characters must also be a bunch of idiots who are not aware that money only has value in Kaufman's turf.

I'm done trying to argue anything with you, because you always drag things down to a ridiculous level that borders on the autistic and you're incapable of even hearing anyone else's point. Trying to talk with you about this crap is like trying to have a discussion with a donkey.

https://media.tenor.com/IJEKv9ljs8UAAAAd/family-guy-donkey.gif

At the end of the day, as I said to you, you're welcome to see things how you want to see them.

[JDP]

I'm done trying to argue anything with you, because you always drag things down to a ridiculous level that borders on the autistic and you're incapable of even hearing anyone else's point. Trying to talk with you about this crap is like trying to have a discussion with a donkey.

https://media.tenor.com/IJEKv9ljs8UAAAAd/family-guy-donkey.gif

At the end of the day, as I said to you, you're welcome to see things how you want to see them.

Ironic post, as it actually rather fits you first and foremost than to anyone else. You simply keep stubbornly refusing to listen to very straightforward and not difficult at all to follow logic and common sense when it comes to this topic. The type of argument that you are trying to defend here is simply untenable. We would have to assume that not only is Cholo basically an unbelievable moron without any fundamental grasp of the situation, but also a whole bunch of other characters as well. I repeat: NONE of the other characters directly involved in this part of the plot find any such fundamental flaw in Cholo's demand for money, and that can only happen if Kaufman is NOT the only guy around who has control of a money based economy. Cholo would be majorly screwed if that wasn't the case, the money he demands would be useless to him, he can't use it in exchange for goods & services anywhere but in territories controlled by Kaufman, the very man who has put a price on his head, and this would also be very self-evident to anyone else involved in such a situation, including Kaufman himself, who would not hesitate to take advantage of it. He would have Cholo "by the balls" with his very own absurd and self-defeating demand for something that only Kaufman himself has any use and control of. There are no "ifs" or "buts" here. Just the facts, Jack. "Don't shoot the messenger!"

[shootemindehead]

https://media.tenor.com/IJEKv9ljs8UAAAAd/family-guy-donkey.gif

[JDP]

https://media.tenor.com/IJEKv9ljs8UAAAAd/family-guy-donkey.gif

Yep, you still refusing to acknowledge the obvious.

[shootemindehead]

Yeh, yeh...you keep going there Eeyore. :rolleyes:




Annnywaaaay, back to the topic at hand...

Just finished the latest episodes of TWD and the backend of FTWD and you couldn't have a bigger contrast. Whereas TWD has actually increased in quality, FTWD continues its spiral downwards into some serious WTF territory, especially where characters are concerned. It can never be said that character motivations in TWD have ever always made perfect sense, but in FTWD they're just mind boggling at this point. I still have no idea what the writers were going for with Strand and Alicia is all over the place too. Although to be fair she's been battling a crazy fever. Plus the obsession with giving her identity weapons is fiercely annoying. First she had that never ended gun barrel thingy and now she had a little blade attached to her severed arm (not to mention she kept the bones of her severed arm attached to it...ugh).

BUT...FTWD S07 ended with one of the best episodes that it has ever done, which only goes to increase the sheer frustration that I have with the show. Out of the mediocre and downright awful, it can turn out genuine gems. But if the trend of the series continues, it'll shit the bed again in S08.

TWD I have been very lukewarm on for a number of series now and character wise the only people I think are worth watching are Carol (who's the series best) and Maggie. Everyone else is an also ran, with some of them not even making that cut. But story wise it's made an effort to dig upwards. Hopefully it can continue and go out with a logical and satisfying conclusion, even if it'll be an inevitable whimper in the grand scheme of things. I just cannot see TWD doing anything but fizzling out, but even then that's not always a bad thing.

[MinionZombie]

Strand and Alicia are indeed terribly written characters, flip-flopping from one vague motivation to the next, their attitudes and allegiences varying wildly in a way that suggests the writers have no idea what they're doing - the total lack of any mere sense of consistency is stark.

I can't even remember how the latest Fear season ended, so it can't have been that great ... what happened again? Also, yes, Alicia's weapons have been fantastically frustrating. It was all the more galling as Alicia seemingly had to amputate her own arm by herself with no help or anaesthetic in a small dirty tunnel ... I mean ... really? I know there's zombies walking about, but come on now. If you're going to get hopped-up on radiation sickness, then at least not do that bullshit with Alicia. I was so hoping she'd get killed off finally, but no... :rolleyes:

[JDP]

Yeh, yeh...you keep going there Eeyore. :rolleyes:.

By hurling ad hominem insulting remarks you are only further admitting that you just don't have any valid arguments, so by all means continue.

[Suicycho]

My biggest problem with the money situation from Land is why didn’t Cholo and other scavengers simply loot abandoned money while they were out in the wastelands? I’m sure there was plenty of it to be found.

It would have been more credible if they had printed a brand new currency that all the other outposts used amongst themselves rather than old US currency.

I haven’t paid too close attention to the commonwealth currency. Have they switched to a new one or still using US money?

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Strand and Alicia are indeed terribly written characters, flip-flopping from one vague motivation to the next, their attitudes and allegiences varying wildly in a way that suggests the writers have no idea what they're doing - the total lack of any mere sense of consistency is stark.

I can't even remember how the latest Fear season ended, so it can't have been that great ... what happened again? Also, yes, Alicia's weapons have been fantastically frustrating. It was all the more galling as Alicia seemingly had to amputate her own arm by herself with no help or anaesthetic in a small dirty tunnel ... I mean ... really? I know there's zombies walking about, but come on now. If you're going to get hopped-up on radiation sickness, then at least not do that bullshit with Alicia. I was so hoping she'd get killed off finally, but no... :rolleyes:

A good argument could be made that Alicia did die. She looked really clean and fresh when she got up. If she was still alive she would have looked like shit even if the infection passed. But then again it’s probably just on par with most of Fears nonsense.

[shootemindehead]

Strand and Alicia are indeed terribly written characters, flip-flopping from one vague motivation to the next, their attitudes and allegiences varying wildly in a way that suggests the writers have no idea what they're doing - the total lack of any mere sense of consistency is stark.

Aye. Stand, particularly, who has been one way, then the other, then back again, then over the other way. It's been nuts. He went ally to primary antagonist and for no real reason either. A guy that had your back to a guy that chucked people off of a roof for little or nothing. There's just been no sense to it.


I can't even remember how the latest Fear season ended, so it can't have been that great ... what happened again?

It ends with the return of Madison, who's been eking out a living by kidnapping kids for PADRE who I, assume, are some sort of "Commonwealth" type organisation trying to secure some sort of future by using the most foul ends? She bumps into Morgan, who's been carrying around this really annoying kid that does nothing but cry all the bleedin time. Frankly, I'd have let Maddy have her. :lol: So, I'm kinda interested in seeing where that goes now. Whereas, with the previous episode, I was done with the show completely.


Also, yes, Alicia's weapons have been fantastically frustrating. It was all the more galling as Alicia seemingly had to amputate her own arm by herself with no help or anaesthetic in a small dirty tunnel ... I mean ... really? I know there's zombies walking about, but come on now. If you're going to get hopped-up on radiation sickness, then at least not do that bullshit with Alicia. I was so hoping she'd get killed off finally, but no... :rolleyes:

Yeah, Alicia should have kicked the bucket. Although that should have happened a long time ago. But then that's been one of the primary problems with FTWD. The terrible characters linger and the good ones get whacked easily. However the actual surgical part of the amputation was carried out by someone else, I think she just hacked off the bitten part with that stupid gun barrel?

All of it's a shame really, cos FTWD could be quite good, if they could get some decent writers on the case. But, TBH, you could say that about most shows that are produced these days. Seems to me that writers merely have to churn out "content" and not worry to much about things not adding up that well.

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My biggest problem with the money situation from Land is why didn’t Cholo and other scavengers simply loot abandoned money while they were out in the wastelands? I’m sure there was plenty of it to be found.

It's three years into the apocalypse and Land is after Night, Dawn and Day, so there's probably not a lot of cash floating around out there in the wasteland at that point? Maybe there has been some people who've struck it lucky. But then how do you go about spending that wonga back at Fiddler's without somebody noticing something fishy? The only folk who are knocking around outside the confines of the city walls are poorer than the wealthy lot that are holed up in the tower block living the life of Riley.


It would have been more credible if they had printed a brand new currency that all the other outposts used amongst themselves rather than old US currency.

Maybe they were? Do we get to see an actual dollar. I dunno. It could have Kauffman's face on it. :lol:


I haven’t paid too close attention to the commonwealth currency. Have they switched to a new one or still using US money?

Can't say I've noticed myself.


A good argument could be made that Alicia did die. She looked really clean and fresh when she got up. If she was still alive she would have looked like shit even if the infection passed. But then again it’s probably just on par with most of Fears nonsense.

Hmmm, that's what I thought they did. When she stood up talking to her younger self (fkn 'ell :rolleyes: ) I thought she was brown bread and the show was giving her some sort of fantasy farewell. But I think she just survived. :|

[JDP]

My biggest problem with the money situation from Land is why didn’t Cholo and other scavengers simply loot abandoned money while they were out in the wastelands? I’m sure there was plenty of it to be found.

We in fact see the gang of biker looters in Dawn do just that in the mall. Obviously money still has value when the events of Dawn and Land are happening, otherwise we shouldn't expect people to still very keenly seek to possess it. By the obviously more "decayed" time of the events in Day, money is just more debris and garbage on the streets that nobody still left around bothers with anymore. It is no longer an issue.

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It would have been more credible if they had printed a brand new currency that all the other outposts used amongst themselves rather than old US currency.

Too much trouble, it would be easier and more practical to just continue using currency that is still around. Recall that the outposts are in fact being established at a time when even the media is still around to report such events. There is no need to come up with a new currency, just appropriate as much as possible of the currency that is still around. As long as it is still accepted as a means of exchange, you need not bother with having to print a whole new currency.

[MinionZombie]

It ends with the return of Madison, who's been eking out a living by kidnapping kids for PADRE who I, assume, are some sort of "Commonwealth" type organisation trying to secure some sort of future by using the most foul ends? She bumps into Morgan, who's been carrying around this really annoying kid that does nothing but cry all the bleedin time. Frankly, I'd have let Maddy have her. :lol: So, I'm kinda interested in seeing where that goes now. Whereas, with the previous episode, I was done with the show completely.

Ah, now I (kinda) remember ... yeah, another sucky bit of character work with Madison there, too. Doing things she simply would never have done, and zero explanation of how she survived her 'death' at that safe zone years ago (one of many half-assed lame-o safe zones introduced and quickly taken down by FearTWD). It's always got to be the most obviously despicable method in these cases, doesn't it? Not even a case of 'one parent with one child' type of situation, so you could still write in some sort of 'one parent had to stay behind' storyline. They always make these bigger ZA organisations these cackling moustache twirlers with the self-awareness of Lizz Truss (i.e. zero).


Yeah, Alicia should have kicked the bucket. Although that should have happened a long time ago. But then that's been one of the primary problems with FTWD. The terrible characters linger and the good ones get whacked easily.

When she was painting fucking trees I was soooooooooooooooooo ready for her to be bumped off. I despised that waste of time boring-as-paint-drying (suitably enough) subplot. Moronic. John Dorie was a great character and helped rejuvenate FearTWD for me when he was introduced in season four, but then everything went back to normal naffness around him and he was up to his neck in shite. The actor wisely chose to bow out and do something else - including "Sprung" on FreeVee (which was quite enjoyable and reunited him with some of his Raising Hope chums).


All of it's a shame really, cos FTWD could be quite good, if they could get some decent writers on the case. But, TBH, you could say that about most shows that are produced these days. Seems to me that writers merely have to churn out "content" and not worry to much about things not adding up that well.

There's a dearth of "good" writers in the industry, and swathes of bad writers churning out 'content', as you say. Disney has faced this in particular with its Marvel shows and the likes of Obi-Wan Kenobi. They need it now and they don't care if it's in an utter mess that destroys characters, story continuity, or straight-up insults the fanbase at every turn (*cough* She-Hulk *cough*). If they'd actually look beyond their postcode they'd find all sorts of talented writers who aren't able to break through the closed shop doors of the industry.


The only folk who are knocking around outside the confines of the city walls are poorer than the wealthy lot that are holed up in the tower block living the life of Riley.

Ironically enough. :D

[shootemindehead]

Ah, now I (kinda) remember ... yeah, another sucky bit of character work with Madison there, too. Doing things she simply would never have done, and zero explanation of how she survived her 'death' at that safe zone years ago (one of many half-assed lame-o safe zones introduced and quickly taken down by FearTWD). It's always got to be the most obviously despicable method in these cases, doesn't it? Not even a case of 'one parent with one child' type of situation, so you could still write in some sort of 'one parent had to stay behind' storyline. They always make these bigger ZA organisations these cackling moustache twirlers with the self-awareness of Lizz Truss (i.e. zero).

LOL, Liz Truss. Fuck me your country is in a state...but that's another story.

Anyhoo...yeh, I would have liked some detail about how Madison Square Gardens got out of the stadium alright. Maybe we'll get something in S08 if I'm still arsed to watch. As for her motives, I guess PADRE has offered her something, other than oxygen to help with her COPD. She says a line in the episode that kinda acts a justification for her deeds as in the parents of these kids are struggling and failing to mind them and she's convinced herself that PADRE will do a better job.

But we've yet to actually see PADRE, so we have no idea what the setup there is. It could be a solution but, more than likely, it'll be yet another antagonistic organisation because that's what both TWD and FTWD are mired in. I mean the flagship show has been basically repeating the same storyline for years now.

As for 1 parent, 1 child, sure that might have worked better. But it would be less dramatic I spose. Plus, there could loads of wannabe parents already waiting in PADRE.


When she was painting fucking trees I was soooooooooooooooooo ready for her to be bumped off. I despised that waste of time boring-as-paint-drying (suitably enough) subplot. Moronic. John Dorie was a great character and helped rejuvenate FearTWD for me when he was introduced in season four, but then everything went back to normal naffness around him and he was up to his neck in shite. The actor wisely chose to bow out and do something else - including "Sprung" on FreeVee (which was quite enjoyable and reunited him with some of his Raising Hope chums).

Oh that painting trees shit, WTF was that all about? And yer man Wes with his baloney too.

Agree with John Dorie, I liked him and whatshername and the more contained story with them pair actually had me more interested in FTWD than the main show which took a serious dip in quality. But FTWD has these issues with getting rid of good characters, or have good actors leave. It's funny, though, that Coleman Domingo had to fight to get Kim Dickens back making the producers realise their idiot move to get rid of her in the first place. Amazingly short sighted that.


There's a dearth of "good" writers in the industry, and swathes of bad writers churning out 'content', as you say. Disney has faced this in particular with its Marvel shows and the likes of Obi-Wan Kenobi. They need it now and they don't care if it's in an utter mess that destroys characters, story continuity, or straight-up insults the fanbase at every turn (*cough* She-Hulk *cough*). If they'd actually look beyond their postcode they'd find all sorts of talented writers who aren't able to break through the closed shop doors of the industry.

Haven't watched a single Marvel show. That whole mess of nonsense is just not my thing and I think the last decade or so of Marvel crap has gone a long way to forging the poor state of visual entertainment that exists today. As for 'Kenobi' or whatever it was called, that was astonishing in its ineptitude. But I, personally, think a lot of that was down to studio interference and a desire to tick boxes and chuck in some fan service as an alternative to logically written characters and scenarios.

I think another issue is that a lot of this stuff will never see any permanent state, as in a Blu Ray release. It'll remain "in the cloud" :rolleyes: until it's forgotten by everyone. So, it all doesn't matter in the end. I think I read that 'Rings of Power' won't be getting a Blu release, for instance. Not that that matters, because right there is a show that is everything everyone needs to see in order to understand just how poor writing have become on these TV shows. I finished out S01 and my god, is that a bad, bad, show.

[Moon Knight]

I’m done with FTWD. Didn’t even finish the last two episodes once I found out Alicia was leaving the show, yet, wasn’t killed off of course. Between the butchering of Strand and Daniel, I have lost complete interest.

Reading all of the above posts about Fear reminded me why I dropped that show.

[MinionZombie]

Anyhoo...yeh, I would have liked some detail about how Madison Square Gardens got out of the stadium alright. Maybe we'll get something in S08 if I'm still arsed to watch. As for her motives, I guess PADRE has offered her something, other than oxygen to help with her COPD. She says a line in the episode that kinda acts a justification for her deeds as in the parents of these kids are struggling and failing to mind them and she's convinced herself that PADRE will do a better job.

But we've yet to actually see PADRE, so we have no idea what the setup there is. It could be a solution but, more than likely, it'll be yet another antagonistic organisation because that's what both TWD and FTWD are mired in. I mean the flagship show has been basically repeating the same storyline for years now.

As for 1 parent, 1 child, sure that might have worked better. But it would be less dramatic I spose. Plus, there could loads of wannabe parents already waiting in PADRE.

1) "Madison Square Gardens" - :lol::lol::lol:

2) It's still daft to be kidnapping kids from their parents. As an organisation you're just stoking up enemies (when you've already got plenty of dead folks walking around to be worried about, and nuclear clouds wafting about the place like a fart in a lift). Take the parent as well. I know what you mean about it being 'less dramatic', but even still, it logistically doesn't make a huge amount of sense. The parents are struggling because they're in the wasteland, not because they're bad parents. Surely taking kids out of parents' arms are going to do a boatload of psychological damage to said kids and that's not gonna help anyone. Sure, there could be a 'mouths to feed' issue, but if you're this large organisation then you're gonna have your shit together and be self-sufficient.


Agree with John Dorie, I liked him and whatshername and the more contained story with them pair actually had me more interested in FTWD than the main show which took a serious dip in quality. But FTWD has these issues with getting rid of good characters, or have good actors leave. It's funny, though, that Coleman Domingo had to fight to get Kim Dickens back making the producers realise their idiot move to get rid of her in the first place. Amazingly short sighted that.

Half the time I think it's the actors wanting out of their contracts, or not signing up for longer, or just requesting that they be let go. FearTWD has never felt in control of its own destiny at any point since the end of season one. It's been continually swept up in stormy seas, always scrabbling to write-out yet another actor who wants to escape the usually dreadful writing.


Haven't watched a single Marvel show. That whole mess of nonsense is just not my thing and I think the last decade or so of Marvel crap has gone a long way to forging the poor state of visual entertainment that exists today. As for 'Kenobi' or whatever it was called, that was astonishing in its ineptitude. But I, personally, think a lot of that was down to studio interference and a desire to tick boxes and chuck in some fan service as an alternative to logically written characters and scenarios.

I think another issue is that a lot of this stuff will never see any permanent state, as in a Blu Ray release. It'll remain "in the cloud" :rolleyes: until it's forgotten by everyone. So, it all doesn't matter in the end. I think I read that 'Rings of Power' won't be getting a Blu release, for instance. Not that that matters, because right there is a show that is everything everyone needs to see in order to understand just how poor writing have become on these TV shows. I finished out S01 and my god, is that a bad, bad, show.

1) I've not watched any of the Marvel shows, either. Once I started seeing reviews (that aren't written by publications suckling the Disney teat to stay in business) and breakdowns of events in the shows it became clear how bad the writing was, how woeful the characterisations were, how preachy the storylines were getting. Seems to be a lot of 'bait and switch' going on (e.g. with Loki), as well as 'mystery boxes' galore, very bizarre morals (e.g. with WandaVision in particular). They quickly became very unappealing after initial interest. She-Hulk, from all I've read about it and all the clips I've seen (both of the show and the promotional material and interviews) has just been astonishingly bad ... I mean, boasting that you want to write a legal comedy but don't know how to do the legal stuff (and, honestly, the comedy either!). Seriously, boasting about your incompetence as a writer in the promotional material? Seriously? The problems with that show seem endless from all I've read/seen about it.

The common theme also seems to be Disney makes a bad show and then blames the fans for not liking it, tossing around various ists and isms. Try making good stuff and people will dig it. However, we've been clogged-up with superheroes for ages now, so there's a real fatigue with it all setting-in now.

2) Rings of Power ... woof ... I'm glad I didn't watch it. Again, everything I saw leading up to its release was a total turn off, and seeing breakdowns and reviews of it (even from major publications who original praised the show ... for money, no doubt) have just shined a light on, yet again, awful writing being the key problem.

If you don't have good writing, then you ain't got shit. When will they ever learn?

It'd be a waste of time putting RoP on physical media as the interest seems so limited in the show. Forbes did a breakdown of some numbers and it seemed as if 'up to 95%' of Prime Video customers had 'little/no interest' in RoP!!! Considering the cost of the show, and how it 'must succeed no matter what', then ... blimey! Those in charge of making the decisions that lead to RoP should all be fired as they clearly haven't got the first fucking clue what they're doing. Meanwhile you've got Amazon's various 'Jack' shows doing quite well, the general success of 'The Boys', and I've heard good things about "The Terminal List" (still got to get around to that one) ... do they still not 'get' it? :rolleyes:




I’m done with FTWD. Didn’t even finish the last two episodes once I found out Alicia was leaving the show, yet, wasn’t killed off of course. Between the butchering of Strand and Daniel, I have lost complete interest.

Reading all of the above posts about Fear reminded me why I dropped that show.

Oh yeah, Daniel as well - they kinda neutered him, so you start wondering if there's a real purpose in keeping him around. He was one of the best characters on the show, but they've just ground him up into a loose meat sandwich now.

I don't understand Fear's obsession with Alicia, like she was this amazing character - she was awful. Out of the original family she was the most infuriating pain in the arse. All the others in her family who were killed off were far better. Even the messed up version of Madison absolutely tramples Alicia. I just found that tree-painting numpty so irritating, swinging around that moronic broken gun barrel 'weapon' like it was some super sweet melee weapon. It didn't even look easy/comfortable to hold. And all those holes, how was it not getting stuck on everything all the time? Terrible choice of zombie killing tool!

[facestabber]

Episode “Faith”. I’ve always said TWD was the greatest show in the history of my life. I still remember the magic of Halloween in 2010 watching “Days Gone Bye”. I can’t believe how predictable, boring and un scary this show has become. The writing is just stale and poor. I don’t even think I can put my displeasure and sadness about how this show has just plummeted in quality. ah hell with this i’m gonna go drown in bourbon.

[MinionZombie]

Episode “Faith”. I’ve always said TWD was the greatest show in the history of my life. I still remember the magic of Halloween in 2010 watching “Days Gone Bye”. I can’t believe how predictable, boring and un scary this show has become. The writing is just stale and poor. I don’t even think I can put my displeasure and sadness about how this show has just plummeted in quality. ah hell with this i’m gonna go drown in bourbon.

I wouldn't be so bleak in my assessment, but I am disappointed that the Commonwealth wasn't more widely explored before season 11 - seeing some glimpses of how the mechanics of the whole operation work have been very interesting, such as the forced labour camp and how 'undesirables' get swept out of the city and used elsewhere.

I will say that the Outpost 22 leader, as seen in this latest episode "Faith", is disappointingly one-note. Having recently finished House of the Dragon, with it's hugely complex 'grey area characters', it's a shame to see such black & white villains on TWD lately - people who are such utter bastards that they're incredibly unaware of how their shitty actions are actually creating more problems for themselves (or they just don't care - which is piss poor leadership and makes you wonder how on earth The Commonwealth could function with such people in charge ... then again, I glance at the UK government, and, well...).

Indeed, it's frustrating to see The Commonwealth almost deliberately run in a malevolent way, rather than being run in a seriously compromised manner because its leaders are desperately trying to spin a million plates all at once while dealing with numerous problems (housing, medical care, water, food, electricity etc etc etc) within the context of a never-ending threat from the undead. Pushed into extreme circumstances, people with good intentions have found their ideals chipped away at more and more, and one bad decisions begets another one.

Instead Pamela Milton has become a fairly one-note villain herself, a typical sleazy politician. I don't believe she truly cares about anyone but herself and that's not enough for a good villain. Negan did actually care about his people, albeit in a very fucked up fashion (all his talk of people as a "resource") - and, indeed, seeing how Negan's character has been developed since the end of All Out War on the show has been really good writing - which continued in this episode as well.

So it's a mixed bag. Some villains are too simplistic and predictable moustache twirlers, while others get much better shading (i.e. Negan).

There's also small things they could finesse a bit. When Negan was getting lined up and people were coming forward they could've tweaked the editing and especially the music to really suggest that, just maybe, a big cast cull was about to happen. The moment felt a little half-inflated in the final product - a couple of minor changes could've given it an extra boost.

There's plenty of good stuff going on, although I still don't really feel like this is coming to a close - that there's only two episodes remaining - which is concerning for what actually are the final episodes of TWD. I know there's spin-offs and such, but we need a sense of closure and climax for the main show itself.

[facestabber]

Gimme Hershel’s farm all day and every day. That truly felt like the ZA. The larger the communities got the less enjoyable the watch is for me. I don’t want politics and politicians, get enough of that garbage.

Minion, you’re spot on about the villains. Compared to House of Dragons this show is really lacking. mustache twirlers for sure. It seems so forced and over the top.

In a world where the dead are walking I understanding suspending some rationale is necessary. But I just can’t watch anymore anonymous meetings of groups in the woods. The writing is so lazy. The season 4 railroad track/terminus journey worked and made sense. It had plausibility IMO. But this stuff is just poor.

I’ll finish this out. May even shed a tear when the final credits role as I remember the amazing journey. But the final two episodes better harness some amazing ideas for me to want to watch spin-offs. I will give the Rick and Michonne one a shot just because Rick is TWD to me. But the rest I don’t know.

[Moon Knight]

Did someone say HOUSE OF THE DRAGON??

Now, THAT is a damn good show.

“Faith” was far more enjoyable compared to the last 4, 5 episodes? Idk, looks like they rather setup the spin offs than give the OG show the perfect ending it deserves.

[MinionZombie]

looks like they rather setup the spin offs than give the OG show the perfect ending it deserves.

Hmmm... it is concerning, isn't it?

Really, the spin-offs should be sequels, the 'what happens after the end?', not the main show bending to the will of the spin-offs. After such a long run the main show very much needs to have its own conclusion and ending - it needs to feel completed in and of itself, outside of any further spin-offs.

I've not even bothered going back to finish "Tales of The Walking Dead" (I struggled through 4 out of 6 episodes and it was just one big pile of shit after another most of the time).

[beat_truck]

I haven't watched TWD since right before the 6 filler episodes from during the coof, but I have all the episodes up until now recorded (on VHS:)). The show has honestly been a real chore to watch since season 8. If they don't wrap up the series properly and just continue on, expecting people to follow up with the sequels, I WILL be shit-canning what I have recorded instead of watching it. I have seriously considered doing that as it is.

[Moon Knight]

Hmmm... it is concerning, isn't it?

Really, the spin-offs should be sequels, the 'what happens after the end?', not the main show bending to the will of the spin-offs. After such a long run the main show very much needs to have its own conclusion and ending - it needs to feel completed in and of itself, outside of any further spin-offs.

I've not even bothered going back to finish "Tales of The Walking Dead" (I struggled through 4 out of 6 episodes and it was just one big pile of shit after another most of the time).

Didn’t even bother with Tales. Once AMC catered to the casual audience, it was over.

[MinionZombie]

Didn’t even bother with Tales. Once AMC catered to the casual audience, it was over.

"Tales" was horrific - in the wrong way. It was just awful. Staggeringly bad writing, boring stories, stories that confused established lore (e.g. the episode about Alpha and Lydia), stories that had absolutely no place at all within the TWD universe (that atrocious time-rewindy one). It's shocking that anyone thought those stories and scripts were the right way to go.

[JDP]

I haven't watched TWD since right before the 6 filler episodes from during the coof, but I have all the episodes up until now recorded (on VHS:)). The show has honestly been a real chore to watch since season 8. If they don't wrap up the series properly and just continue on, expecting people to follow up with the sequels, I WILL be shit-canning what I have recorded instead of watching it. I have seriously considered doing that as it is.

Then I am afraid that you will most likely have to pull out the "cans & lids", because it has all the looks like it won't really "end" in the upcoming episodes, at least not properly so. The fact that one of the 3 shows into which the main show will split into is about Rick would seem to prove so. If TWD really ended in the upcoming episodes, the Rick wrap-up story would be included in it. It is simply absurd to pretend to end TWD without Rick being involved. It's HIS story. It has always been so. And it can only properly end with his story also ending. The show begins and ends with him. Removing him from the main show therefore is in fact one of the biggest mistakes in its history. It has never been the same since.

[shootemindehead]

I haven't watched TWD since right before the 6 filler episodes from during the coof, but I have all the episodes up until now recorded (on VHS:)).

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/fb/4e/07/fb4e07ea3c37c426dd0a2b3344b1ff85.jpg

[Moon Knight]

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/fb/4e/07/fb4e07ea3c37c426dd0a2b3344b1ff85.jpg

I caught that too :D

[beat_truck]

Then I am afraid that you will most likely have to pull out the "cans & lids", because it has all the looks like it won't really "end" in the upcoming episodes, at least not properly so. The fact that one of the 3 shows into which the main show will split into is about Rick would seem to prove so. If TWD really ended in the upcoming episodes, the Rick wrap-up story would be included in it. It is simply absurd to pretend to end TWD without Rick being involved. It's HIS story. It has always been so. And it can only properly end with his story also ending. The show begins and ends with him. Removing him from the main show therefore is in fact one of the biggest mistakes in its history. It has never been the same since.

Yep, and the show has been pretty much total garbage since they killed off Coral, and Rick left for parts unknown.

- - - Updated - - -


https://i.pinimg.com/736x/fb/4e/07/fb4e07ea3c37c426dd0a2b3344b1ff85.jpg

Hey, I still use VHS tapes and VCRs. I have lots of movies that I paid good money for or recorded off TV (when they actually still played good movies:().... some of them hard to find. I don't give a shit if they are the latest and greatest technology or not. They still work.

Besides, does a show as shitty as TWD has been as of late really deserve any better?;)

[facestabber]

I haven’t seen a working VCR in a decade or so. They sure were great in the 80’s

[JDP]

I have 3 still working VCRs and... brace yourselves... one BETAMAX that still works!

[Suicycho]

Well, they managed to work a courtroom drama into TWD. That really says it all…

[facestabber]

I have 3 still working VCRs and... brace yourselves... one BETAMAX that still works!

I’m old enough to remember when the big choice was between VHS and Beta.

- - - Updated - - -


Well, they managed to work a courtroom drama into TWD. That really says it all…

I have no connection to that court drama. I was always impartial to Eugene. Not sure how he lived this long. Seems his arch was over in Season 6 finale when he courageously attempted to misdirect the Saviours. Met Josh mcdermott a couple times and enjoyed the convo. But that court room stuff was terrible. I don’t think they needed that for Mercer to have his come to Jesus moment.

[shootemindehead]

I'm old enough to remember this bleedin thing...



https://coimages.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/images/165/644/medium_70518_4.jpg




Weighed a ton and was the size of a small house. My uncle owned it and let me watch Star Wars every time we visited. He taped it off the tele when it was first shown. I must have worn that tape to shreds.

[JDP]

I first saw Fulci's Zombie fully uncut on Beta. I still remember the hilarious "We are going to eat you!" tagline on the cover.

[Moon Knight]

I'm old enough to remember this bleedin thing...



https://coimages.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/images/165/644/medium_70518_4.jpg




Weighed a ton and was the size of a small house. My uncle owned it and let me watch Star Wars every time we visited. He taped it off the tele when it was first shown. I must have worn that tape to shreds.

That thing is beautiful, man.

[shootemindehead]

Wrong thread.

[facestabber]

Episode 23 Family. I really thought it was building up to Rick Grimes showing up. But I will say for the first time in a long time I felt some anxiety about walkers about to consume non red shirts. Always liked Lydia. Shame of what Coral and her could have been had Gimple not been a jackass.

Daryl and Judith scenes. Clearly a call back to Rick carrying Carl to Hershel’s farm. I like the young girl playing Judith. I enjoyed this episode for most part. But if Rick isn’t in the finale to see Daryl with Judith in some form it will be the crime of the century. I really need to quit typing this stuff from a phone.

[shootemindehead]

So how many episodes of this nonsense is left?

I just cannot see the show coming to a satisfactory end if there's only 3 or 4 to go.

[facestabber]

So how many episodes of this nonsense is left?

I just cannot see the show coming to a satisfactory end if there's only 3 or 4 to go.

Episode 11-24 is it and it airs Nov 20. It’s looking more obvious this isn’t going to be conclusive but rather set up spin-offs.

[MinionZombie]

Episode 11-24 is it and it airs Nov 20. It’s looking more obvious this isn’t going to be conclusive but rather set up spin-offs.

Which in itself is a bloody cheek, because the main show that started it all needs to have its own conclusion and wrap-up.

I do hope the finale is a long episode, and not just a few extra minutes. We need a lot of screen time to cover our bases and have at least a half-decent sense of closure.

As for this penultimate episode, yes, it was quite enjoyable. Lots going on, some good juicy zombie action - with the climbers playing a role now. It would have been nice to have had a bit more use out of the variants, but then again you can't have them hanging around for too long otherwise the Commonwealth soldiers would find one and mend their defences to reflect the new situation ... although to be honest, why they didn't already have sheets of metal welded to those columns to stop anyone from climbing up is beyond in-world logic. Obviously it's so we can have a walker climb it, cause chaos, and then the doors accidentally get opened up - but in-world it doesn't make much sense ... ... perhaps hubris?

I half-wondered if Judith saying "Daddy" is because she did actually see him in the zombie horde, but because we don't see him then we assume it's her circling the drain and seeing things.

If they don't bring Rick (and indeed Michonne) back into the final episode it'll be a total slap in the face to all the fans, it really will. Sure, we can have our spin-off and I really do hope the Rich/Michonne mini-series will be good and buck the trend of the utterly shite spin-offs TWD has so far had, but I need closure in this show.

Time's marching on, the kids have grown so much and are only going to spurt up even more, so we need to have Rick and Michonne reunite with their family (remember - Rick has never met RJ and didn't even know Michonne was pregnant!!!) and then have a good chunk of time to show how things progressed from there on into the years that followed. That's what I'd do, at least.

Anyway - good episode, some nice meat on the bones and peril going on, but trying to wedge the majority of the Commonwealth story into season 11 (with only dribs and drabs in season 10) has been not the greatest idea, even with an additional eight episodes thrown into the mix. Season 11 has overall been better than Season 10, but it could have easily been better in various ways.

Still love the show, but the love affair passion of it all has faded. :p

[facestabber]

Which in itself is a bloody cheek, because the main show that started it all needs to have its own conclusion and wrap-up.

I do hope the finale is a long episode, and not just a few extra minutes. We need a lot of screen time to cover our bases and have at least a half-decent sense of closure.

As for this penultimate episode, yes, it was quite enjoyable. Lots going on, some good juicy zombie action - with the climbers playing a role now. It would have been nice to have had a bit more use out of the variants, but then again you can't have them hanging around for too long otherwise the Commonwealth soldiers would find one and mend their defences to reflect the new situation ... although to be honest, why they didn't already have sheets of metal welded to those columns to stop anyone from climbing up is beyond in-world logic. Obviously it's so we can have a walker climb it, cause chaos, and then the doors accidentally get opened up - but in-world it doesn't make much sense ... ... perhaps hubris?

I half-wondered if Judith saying "Daddy" is because she did actually see him in the zombie horde, but because we don't see him then we assume it's her circling the drain and seeing things.

If they don't bring Rick (and indeed Michonne) back into the final episode it'll be a total slap in the face to all the fans, it really will. Sure, we can have our spin-off and I really do hope the Rich/Michonne mini-series will be good and buck the trend of the utterly shite spin-offs TWD has so far had, but I need closure in this show.

Time's marching on, the kids have grown so much and are only going to spurt up even more, so we need to have Rick and Michonne reunite with their family (remember - Rick has never met RJ and didn't even know Michonne was pregnant!!!) and then have a good chunk of time to show how things progressed from there on into the years that followed. That's what I'd do, at least.

Anyway - good episode, some nice meat on the bones and peril going on, but trying to wedge the majority of the Commonwealth story into season 11 (with only dribs and drabs in season 10) has been not the greatest idea, even with an additional eight episodes thrown into the mix. Season 11 has overall been better than Season 10, but it could have easily been better in various ways.

Still love the show, but the love affair passion of it all has faded. :p

I’ll have to rewatch that alley scene. I did enjoy Negans “wtf” at the climbing walker. The group had a look of fear and that’s long over due.

My faith in the show and the show runners has been low for a while. I am expecting disappointment in the finale. Maybe that’s just a defense mechanism so i’m not completely crushed. I even think they are going to throw in some major deaths for shock value, which at this point why bother. Many of the remaining characters most likely have a fan base. If the show is gonna suck it might as well make some fans happy by survival.

[MinionZombie]

I’ll have to rewatch that alley scene. I did enjoy Negans “wtf” at the climbing walker. The group had a look of fear and that’s long over due.

Funny how they're now seemingly chucking in a "fuck" every episode now - has the broadcast landscape changed in America for accepting "fuck" on TV? I always found it odd how they could show people getting torn to shreds, but nobody could ever say "fuck". It's weird, especially from a UK perspective as we've been saying "fuck" on mainstream all-access television for ages now. "Cunt" even gets flung about in some contexts.

Last week's ended on "Time to fuck shit up", for example, and aye, I did enjoy Negan's "what the fuck?!" at the sight of a climbing walker - great delivery of that line. :D If only all the villains were as well written as Negan has become, riddled with grey area complications where he's now doing good or even heroic stuff but he can never escape his past transgressions.

One thing that bugged the fuck out of me in this episode - and I'm stunned they even left in - was Judith holding Rick's gun in that way. Loaded or not, having your hand over the business end is just stupid. Her finger wasn't on the trigger, but you never know and stranger things can happen and it just shows poor weapon discipline from a character who shouldn't really have that. We don't know whether or not it was loaded, quite possibly it wasn't, but she never checks when she picks it up out of the bottom of that box - so she wouldn't know. I was really surprised they shot that like that. Really surprised.

I did enjoy seeing Mercer's second-in-command beginning to twig how rotten Pamela is, even if the 'throw the poor plebs to the wolves' approach is rather predictable and actually quite a bit silly - how are you going to run a city without the masses, eh? There's a more nuanced way that could've been handled, a ticking clock desperation of sorts to get through into a safe area that could have been blocked off for the common folk, but one that the top brass have put little thought into (i.e. no food, water, weapons, escape etc - things like that). My mind flashes back to the beginning of Doomsday, where Hadrian's Wall has essentially been rebuilt and is getting sealed off to cut Scotland - and the virus within - from the rest of the UK ... so shiver-inducing.

I think any deaths in the finale should really be deserved, not just doing away with a villain, but a moment that is earned and means something, not just a senseless snuffing, you know?

[facestabber]

Regarding tv in America. I don’t watch much of it. GOT and TWD are really the only consistent programs I watch. TWD was once pulling in 12 and I think 13 million views per episode. It’s no longer that powerhouse and eyes aren’t really on it anymore. And I think TWD use of those words is actually contextual and blends in. This isn’t a Rob zombie or Terantino film where the language is over the top rediculous.

“Gun play” has always been poor on TWD. I really have to turn my brain off during gun fights. The spray and pray. Pamela picking up a gun. Maggie standing in the open for Judith to have time to realize she has to run and tackle her because she knows Pamela is about to smoke Maggie. Then Daryl hovering over Judith while the balcony machine gunners freeze to show mercy?!???!? It’s some next level bafoonery. Now my stomach hurts. So yes, I too cringed with a season survivor(Judith) putting her hand at the business end of a revolver. But had to get past it quick because it is after all TWD.

[JDP]

Episode 11-24 is it and it airs Nov 20. It’s looking more obvious this isn’t going to be conclusive but rather set up spin-offs.

See post #53 in this thread. It was not that difficult to predict.

[facestabber]

See post #53 in this thread. It was not that difficult to predict.

Just trying to answer a question posed. Andrew Lincoln was photographed in the Atlanta area during/around the time when the series was wrapping up filming. Despite my displeasure at the direction it is unfolding I am still clinging to a faded hope that somehow Rick returns and gives us what we deserve.

[shootemindehead]

Episode 11-24 is it and it airs Nov 20. It’s looking more obvious this isn’t going to be conclusive but rather set up spin-offs.

Right, so there's actually just one episode left and we are nowhere really near a proper conclusion. :/

I think after that episode, I will be done with TWD.




Made the mistake of not listening to myself again and watched 'Tales from the Walking Dead'.


Fuck me. :rolleyes:

[MinionZombie]

Made the mistake of not listening to myself again and watched 'Tales from the Walking Dead'.


Fuck me. :rolleyes:

Not the whole thing, surely??? :confused::shifty::eek:

[facestabber]

Right, so there's actually just one episode left and we are nowhere really near a proper conclusion. :/

I think after that episode, I will be done with TWD.




Made the mistake of not listening to myself again and watched 'Tales from the Walking Dead'.


Fuck me. :rolleyes:

Shame on you. hahaha. I think most of us that started with Romero then finally got the blessing that Seasons 1-5 of TWD were feel the same. If Gimple wasn’t a jackass and killed Carl I think the show would have not lost so much. And, I personally believe Carls departure played a part in Lincoln’s decision to exit. Part of it is all I’m saying before the wolves come out. But I know I’d feel so much more emotionally invested if Rick and Carl were side by side for the finale. And Judith for that matter too. I wanted Rick Grimes story through the ZA. The majority of the cast that is left, I don’t care much for. Magna, yumiko kelly luke, haven’t sweated their fates for a second.

[shootemindehead]

Not the whole thing, surely??? :confused::shifty::eek:

Mmmmm.

Had it on the laptop while I was working.

The first episode wasn't bad, but by christ you'd have to wonder who was in charge to give the ok on the whole series.

- - - Updated - - -


Shame on you. hahaha. I think most of us that started with Romero then finally got the blessing that Seasons 1-5 of TWD were feel the same. If Gimple wasn’t a jackass and killed Carl I think the show would have not lost so much. And, I personally believe Carls departure played a part in Lincoln’s decision to exit. Part of it is all I’m saying before the wolves come out. But I know I’d feel so much more emotionally invested if Rick and Carl were side by side for the finale. And Judith for that matter too. I wanted Rick Grimes story through the ZA. The majority of the cast that is left, I don’t care much for. Magna, yumiko kelly luke, haven’t sweated their fates for a second.

TWD ended for me when Lincoln jumped ship. It's just shuffled on like one of its zombies ever since. I was never that bothered by Karl getting killed, but without Rick the whole foundation of the show was ripped out and it never settled again. Plus there's a legion of nobodies in it now that I simply couldn't give a toss about. I don't even know their names and frankly I get irritated when they're on the screen. There's tons of people in it that I just want to die.

It's a show that's been dead in the water for some time now.

[MinionZombie]

Putting Gimple in charge of 'over-seeing' the TWD franchise hasn't been a grand idea, either, it seems - certainly not if you're going by "World Beyond" and "Tales" ... then there was talk of three Rick Grimes movies that never happened, then it was talk of one Rick Grimes movie that never happened, now it's a spin-off series (I presume a mini-series or limited run). Please don't fuck that one up at least!!!

TWD, at its core, has always been about a father shepherding his son not only through to adulthood, but doing so within the context of a zombie apocalypse. That's the entire heart of TWD, so killing off Carl was some fucking bullshit, moreso in the way it was handled with the actor.

Amazingly, season 9 was really good despite Rick's departure. It actually worked really well after his exit, with his final episodes all being very, very good indeed. Season 10 lost its way in the first half, rallied in the second portion, then got wobbly in those additional six episodes. Season 11 has generally been better, but there's wasted opportunities abound, and the depth of the writing has become much more shallow unfortunately (the aforementioned moustache twirling villains, exploration of the full workings of The Commonwealth left to hurried scraps at times).

I also come back to my repeated point that in this day and age there's no reason for any season of TV to be longer than 10 episodes. A positive outcome of such a thing, in addition to less filler and less likelihood of burning out the audience interest, is that everybody working on the show could spend more time pursuing other projects or being with their family, which is often the reasons for people departing these big shows - they either want to get other jobs (especially if you're grinding out the same character year after year), or you've spent so much time away from your family to work on it. It'd be entirely beneficial.

[Suicycho]

It really will be difficult to wrap it up. Like others have said it’s just setting up the spin-offs.

I wasn’t a fan of killing Carl off, but if they had the 10+ time jump planned it kinda makes sense from a production standpoint. It would have been hard to take the the actor seriously as a 25 year old man. I guess they could have recast an older actor but that would have been awful as well.

As far as the spin-offs, I choose to stay optimistic. The Daryl one sounds interesting and I’d be willing to bet that the Negan/Maggie one brings the CR back into the show. They are heading to NY. But that can also probably will mean some of cast from The high school of the Dead shitshow will appear so maybe I’m
Not too optimistic about that one. ��

[Moon Knight]

Well, looks like the series finale is gonna be a huge disappointment. Can’t believe I’m saying this but the comic did this story better. Unreal.

[facestabber]

Well, looks like the series finale is gonna be a huge disappointment. Can’t believe I’m saying this but the comic did this story better. Unreal.

Maybe going forward it’s best to pretend the series ends the day the gates first open at Alexandria. Happy times.

[Moon Knight]

Maybe going forward it’s best to pretend the series ends the day the gates first open at Alexandria. Happy times.

Isn’t that where Kirkman originally wanted to end the series?

[JDP]

Next villain in TWD revealed:

https://shootingparrots.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Dick-Dastardly.jpg

It seems like he survived the zombie apocalypse and is now back to his shenanigans.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVorjJCNCFQ&ab_channel=TelmaCastroSilva

[MinionZombie]

xADEOcX27DQ

I just gave this a watch. I didn't see any spoilers for the finale, so I don't really know what the video title is on about (it wouldn't make sense as this is put out by AMC themselves).

Nothing earth shattering or revelatory, but some nice behind the scenes glimpses and an appreciation of the army of creatives that it takes to put it all together. :)

[Neil]

Not watched 23 yet... Will watch 23 & 24 together next week...

[MinionZombie]

Is it me, or in that cast picture (the video thumbnail) does Ezekiel look like he's auditioning to be a 'Droog' in a rendition of A Clockwork Orange? :p

[babomb]

I just wanted to say what's up and this seems like the only place anyone would see it!!

[facestabber]

I just wanted to say what's up and this seems like the only place anyone would see it!!

long time no see. Glad to see the IV resident is back. You here to see TWD close shop?

[MinionZombie]

I just wanted to say what's up and this seems like the only place anyone would see it!!

How do, babomb! :)

Only one more episode to go. I'll have to avoid the interwebs until I've seen it as there'll be spoilers galore floating about the mainstream, no doubt, even though TWD has kinda fallen out of the 'mainstream news spoiler bonanza bullshit cycle' in recent years.

[facestabber]

Let’s all say a prayer for Moon today. I’ve got a very sick kid so haven’t watched in full yet. More to follow. Sorry Moon.

[Moon Knight]

Let’s all say a prayer for Moon today. I’ve got a very sick kid so haven’t watched in full yet. More to follow. Sorry Moon.

I am alive. Barely. Thank you.

:(

[MinionZombie]

Was I completely satisfied with this episode? No. Was I dissatisfied with this finale? No.

Generally speaking I enjoyed the episode and it did have more of an impact on me than I was expecting - an end of an era vibe. Sure, part of that is down to personal circumstances and such, but it also made me melancholy looking back over the past twelve years that the show has been on and all the things that have happened in that time - this show has been a considerable chunk of my life, you know?

I found Rosita's final moments quite impactful - great writing and performances there. Again, there's an element of what's going on in my own life that has made me much more raw to these kinds of scenes, but it was legitimately well done.

One scene in particular that I loved was the talk between Negan and Maggie, with Negan talking about how he finally understood what the other half would have felt like when they were kneeling before Lucille. I thought it was a wonderfully written and performed scene, wrought with their complex relationship and how some things can never be forgiven, yet changes must also be recognised. Great scene.

Now, let's get down to particular brass tacks...

Rick & Michonne - now - if they hadn't have appeared at all it would've been a gigantic fuck you to everyone.

The way they did it in the finale? Let's call it a mini fuck you - mini because it robs us of closure within the context of TWD itself, and we didn't get Rick being reunited with his family ... I wonder if the spin-off is just going to be a 6/8 episode mini-series and the closure of that will be them getting back to Alexandria, although by the looks of it it'd be at some point after Daryl has left, potentially, so we'd be robbed of Rick and Daryl - brothers in arms - reuniting ... unless they pull some cheeky retcon of Rick was hanging out in Alexandria at that point, but we just didn't see him and he'd already said goodbye to Daryl, leaving his departure down to Carol.

Speaking of - I really liked those scenes between Daryl and Carol. Funny, really, as the scene is partly in recognition of that change of circumstance for the previously announced Daryl/Carol spin-off becoming a Daryl solo show.

Anyway - man, it was good to see Rick again - now, clearly the scene was a flashback, to what point we don't know, but obviously he is under some kind of 'capture' that he's escaped from and has been found again. He threw his stuff onto that boat, which Michonne found in season 10.

I dearly hope the Rick/Michonne show is well written and bucks the trend of TWD spin-offs, which have either been sorely flawed (Fear) or outright fucking garbage (the other two).

I wouldn't say the finale felt rushed, but it certainly felt jam-fucking-packed with stuff happening. No filler whatsoever and pretty much full-tilt the whole time. I do feel that the pacing of season 11 and these last couple of episodes could've been tweaked to have the last two episodes be both longer and like a big double-episode finale, to give more time to cetain plot points (e.g. the fancy pants estate locking out all the plebs). They certainly 'fixed' that place damn quick, too, haha!

Moon - heh - I thought of you and your reaction to this episode so many times throughout that 65 minutes, hehe.

So, yeah, overall I enjoyed the episode. I certainly didn't get everything I wanted out of it, or season 11 in general, but I can also certainly say that I wasn't disappointed either. It was a compromised finale, but there was so much to enjoy and it really did make an emotional impact upon me, a couple of scenes really had me quite choked-up, I'll admit.

End of an era.

*fingers crossed for the upcoming spin-offs - ffs don't fuck those up!!!*

[facestabber]

I really enjoyed it. So much to chew on. But I will say this. I’ve often wondered how Eugene has lived this long. I never hated him. Surprised the show runners didn’t kill him at times. But the scenes with him and Rosita hit me. Both actors did a great job at selling the emotions of that moment. I’m now excited for the spin offs.

[MinionZombie]

I really enjoyed it. So much to chew on. But I will say this. I’ve often wondered how Eugene has lived this long. I never hated him. Surprised the show runners didn’t kill him at times. But the scenes with him and Rosita hit me. Both actors did a great job at selling the emotions of that moment. I’m now excited for the spin offs.

"Dead City" (the Maggie/Negan spin-off) is now shooting.

I wonder if said city is the same one as we glimpsed at the end of 11x24? Maybe different, mind.

Did others catch the moment when Daryl barricaded the hospital room door just like how it happened for Rick? There were a few little references like that.

Liked it when what's-his-name returned as a walker at the gates, champing at the bit to nibble on Pamela's flesh. :elol:

[facestabber]

"Dead City" (the Maggie/Negan spin-off) is now shooting.

I wonder if said city is the same one as we glimpsed at the end of 11x24? Maybe different, mind.

Did others catch the moment when Daryl barricaded the hospital room door just like how it happened for Rick? There were a few little references like that.

Liked it when what's-his-name returned as a walker at the gates, champing at the bit to nibble on Pamela's flesh. :elol:

I just read that city was Philly. I loved everything Daryl and Judith. Also just heard Chandler Riggs was an extra as he went to visit the set during final days.
Can’t believe I didn’t catch the reference. But Father Gabriels evolution from locking his parishioners out of his church in season 5 to opening the gates to finish the show.

[JDP]

As easily predicted: not really a proper "end", more like just a setup for it splitting into 3 separate shows.

[Neil]

The finale was all a bit of a non event for me... Not bad. But not particularly good.

[MinionZombie]

I just read that city was Philly. I loved everything Daryl and Judith. Also just heard Chandler Riggs was an extra as he went to visit the set during final days.
Can’t believe I didn’t catch the reference. But Father Gabriels evolution from locking his parishioners out of his church in season 5 to opening the gates to finish the show.

Great catch with Father Gabriel there. Hadn't thought of that myself, so adds another layer of juice. :thumbsup:

I think I saw a zombie that had a kind of Glenn look about him. Naturally it wasn't Glenn, doi, but with the baseball cap it just kinda had a fleeting vibe of Glenn.

The first two deaths with Luke's GF and then Luke himself were naturally nowhere near as impactful as Rosita, but it was good that they were able to show how much Luke's death had on his tightest and closest compatriots, so it added heft to a supporting character's end.

I still think Pamela could have been done better and more grey area - someone who was really trying and struggling to do the right thing, rather than kinda one-dimensional government type with a douchebag son and loads-a-money in her pockets. A bit too cliched as a character. Still, I loved Negan pointing out that for that kinda person being imprisoned is a fate worse than death - and he'd certainly know.

I kinda wanted to see Negan and his new lady, especially after the time jump, so that kinda felt like a bit of a hanging thread, but I did like how he just kinda slinked away with a little nod from Daryl and that was that (well, and the excellent scene with Maggie, of course).

[facestabber]

Great catch with Father Gabriel there. Hadn't thought of that myself, so adds another layer of juice. :thumbsup:

I think I saw a zombie that had a kind of Glenn look about him. Naturally it wasn't Glenn, doi, but with the baseball cap it just kinda had a fleeting vibe of Glenn.

The first two deaths with Luke's GF and then Luke himself were naturally nowhere near as impactful as Rosita, but it was good that they were able to show how much Luke's death had on his tightest and closest compatriots, so it added heft to a supporting character's end.

I still think Pamela could have been done better and more grey area - someone who was really trying and struggling to do the right thing, rather than kinda one-dimensional government type with a douchebag son and loads-a-money in her pockets. A bit too cliched as a character. Still, I loved Negan pointing out that for that kinda person being imprisoned is a fate worse than death - and he'd certainly know.

I kinda wanted to see Negan and his new lady, especially after the time jump, so that kinda felt like a bit of a hanging thread, but I did like how he just kinda slinked away with a little nod from Daryl and that was that (well, and the excellent scene with Maggie, of course).

I can’t take credit on Gabriel. Went right over my head on first watch. I met Seth Gilliam a couple of times. Gilliam, Scott Wilson and Ross Marquand would have an argument over which is the more complete gentleman. Meeting him in person definitely turned me into a fan of his. So first seeing him coward in fear on a rock in Season 5 and an emotional wreck I think it was a great send off for him to open the gates at the threat of death. His atonement is complete.

[shootemindehead]

That was fucking terrible. What an atrocious ending to a once great show.

[Suicycho]

I was pretty disappointed with the end. We knew for over a year that certain characters were going to live for their own spin-offs. Killing off tertiary bit characters was a cop out. Not saying I wanted massive death amongst the characters but they really took no risks and left us with little reward.