Obi Wan Kenobi (Disney+ series)...

[MinionZombie]

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[Neil]

I drove by the set of this most days while they were filming there... It was built next to a lake near me.

You can swim in the lake, and I'll swear the number of mums swimming in there rose while there was a risk of bumping into Ewan!

[Neil]

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[MinionZombie]

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New trailer.

Hopefully it'll be more Mandalorian and less Book of Boba Fett!

[Neil]

Episodes 1&2: Solid production, but all felt a bit flat to me... Hopefully it will pick up...

[MinionZombie]

Okay, so two episodes done ... ... meh.

I'm not a massive Star Wars fan, but I've seen the movies and loved The Mandalorian. Boba Fett was dull and fairly naff except for the last three episodes (two of which were basically The Mandalorian episodes!!!), and now this. It doesn't help that it's close to the prequel trilogy, which were pretty naff films with terribly obvious and copious amounts of CGI.

Story wise I'm just not that bothered one way or another, and what the hell is up with Leia's characterisation? Supposedly ten years old, but looks more like six; supposedly so smart, yet keeps bleetering out words like "Jedi" and "lightsaber" in full view and hearing of the public; resorts to the new trope of the 'strong female character' belittling males to big herself up, and just generally acts like a little brat with parental figures that seem to constantly let that slide. She even berates Obi-Wan for her nearly falling to her death ... yeah, because of your choice to jump, you moronic moppet! He saved you from your dumb decision! Sure, Leia had some attitude, but it works much better in an adult character who's done some stuff in their life ... kiddy Leia is just a hand waving princess whose only interests are ignoring every adult around her and playing with her flying toy robot thing.

Not keen on the Jedi villain bounty hunter character either. She just comes across as needlessly petulant rather than intimidating or scary or imposing. Just feels more like a pain in the arse to work with, someone who's always causing trouble because they have no impulse control. I was half-expecting her to pull off a melodramatic "Nooooooooooo!!!" after Obi-Wan escaped her clutches, because that's how naff her character is.

It's only six episodes, so I might just plod on with it, but it just feels like more 'content factory' stuff, and content that's far too beholden to the films. The Mandalorian, on the other hand, has plenty of references and connections, but it does so with it's own cast of characters who can exist outside of much of that pre-existing material. It actually adds to the overall story, rather than cling to it for dear life. As a result, Obi-Wan (and Boba Fett to some degree) feels kinda trapped inside itself.

[Neil]

Okay, so two episodes done ... ... meh.

I'm not a massive Star Wars fan, but I've seen the movies and loved The Mandalorian. Boba Fett was dull and fairly naff except for the last three episodes (two of which were basically The Mandalorian episodes!!!), and now this. It doesn't help that it's close to the prequel trilogy, which were pretty naff films with terribly obvious and copious amounts of CGI.

Story wise I'm just not that bothered one way or another, and what the hell is up with Leia's characterisation? Supposedly ten years old, but looks more like six; supposedly so smart, yet keeps bleetering out words like "Jedi" and "lightsaber" in full view and hearing of the public; resorts to the new trope of the 'strong female character' belittling males to big herself up, and just generally acts like a little brat with parental figures that seem to constantly let that slide. She even berates Obi-Wan for her nearly falling to her death ... yeah, because of your choice to jump, you moronic moppet! He saved you from your dumb decision! Sure, Leia had some attitude, but it works much better in an adult character who's done some stuff in their life ... kiddy Leia is just a hand waving princess whose only interests are ignoring every adult around her and playing with her flying toy robot thing.

Not keen on the Jedi villain bounty hunter character either. She just comes across as needlessly petulant rather than intimidating or scary or imposing. Just feels more like a pain in the arse to work with, someone who's always causing trouble because they have no impulse control. I was half-expecting her to pull off a melodramatic "Nooooooooooo!!!" after Obi-Wan escaped her clutches, because that's how naff her character is.

It's only six episodes, so I might just plod on with it, but it just feels like more 'content factory' stuff, and content that's far too beholden to the films. The Mandalorian, on the other hand, has plenty of references and connections, but it does so with it's own cast of characters who can exist outside of much of that pre-existing material. It actually adds to the overall story, rather than cling to it for dear life. As a result, Obi-Wan (and Boba Fett to some degree) feels kinda trapped inside itself.

Agreed...

[MinionZombie]

Episode 3.

Alright, I suppose.

I just don't particularly see why this story needs to be told, really. Does that make sense?

Boba Fett was squandered on a fairly pointless story that was decidedly second-fiddle to Mando's guest appearances.

I think McGregor's doing a good job returning to the role - the look on his face when he discovers that Anakin is still alive was particularly powerful, although I feel they kinda sapped some of the impact of Vader's return.

When Obi-Wan first sees Vader, we the audience have already seen him fully suited and booted - and even his ruddy unmasked face and various details of his scarred and reconstructed body - so the power of the moment felt by Kenobi is diminished in the viewer's eyes. Sure, we already saw him put together in Sith, but in this show they should've held back until that very moment when Kenobi first sees him.

Leia has a bad habit of doing the opposite of what any adult tells her. It's annoying. Why do writers continually write young children as the smartest or most stubborn or most arrogant people in the room? Strutting around like they know everything, but then they go and do something blatantly stupid, only to be quiet for five minutes before reverting to type and doing stupid things again. Irks me something fierce, so it does.

It's also fair to say that the Leia-based chase sequences are awfully bad. This tiny being can seemingly run rings around far larger and quicker foes? Jog on. They don't bother grabbing hold of her, they just run into trees and stop like poorly programmed AI robots ... really damn poor.

The same can be said of the Inquisitors. That bar scene in the first episode - a measily bit of awning stops them in their tracks? Seriously?! It's literally a couple of sticks and some cloth that immediately falls off. What the actual fuck? They walk through it moments later. They're supposed to be intimidating foes from the dark side, but they just come across as bickering children consumed with petty jealousy. Dreadful characterisation and writing of them, quite frankly.

[MinionZombie]

Episode 4.

This whole venture is just a big shrug, really. Disappointing.

And I don't know what they're doing with this inquisitor character. She doesn't come across as scary or intimidating or anything like that. Having her interrogate a 10 year old (who looks half that age!) just looks, well, pretty silly to be honest. An example of the low quality writing that's negatively impacting pretty much everything in the story.

The whole show just kinda feels a bit limp and clumsy and unnecessary, distractingly so.

The Mandalorian kicks seven shades of shite out of it.

I'll finish it off as there's only a couple of episodes left, but if you've not started on it yet, I wouldn't even bother with it to be honest.

[Neil]

Episode 4.

This whole venture is just a big shrug, really. Disappointing.

And I don't know what they're doing with this inquisitor character. She doesn't come across as scary or intimidating or anything like that. Having her interrogate a 10 year old (who looks half that age!) just looks, well, pretty silly to be honest. An example of the low quality writing that's negatively impacting pretty much everything in the story.

The whole show just kinda feels a bit limp and clumsy and unnecessary, distractingly so.

The Mandalorian kicks seven shades of shite out of it.

I'll finish it off as there's only a couple of episodes left, but if you've not started on it yet, I wouldn't even bother with it to be honest.

I'm only up to ep2 but one criticism I'm hearing is it's looking more and more like Kenobi is simply be used to shoehorn other characters onto the screen?

[MinionZombie]

I'm only up to ep2 but one criticism I'm hearing is it's looking more and more like Kenobi is simply be used to shoehorn other characters onto the screen?

At times he feels a bit sidelined in his own story, yes.

Obviously you need supporting players (who are an extremely mixed bag ... some are fine, others are crap), but the thrust of the story seems to fall out of his grasp at times ... what story there is, mind you, because none of this really feels like it needs to be told, you know?

[MinionZombie]

Episode 5.

Better, but still some really stupid bits...

When Reva is on one side of a supposedly impenetrable door - which a giant fucking gun has only made a scratch to after multiple shots - she has a 'force conversation' with Obi-Wan, but the way they've done it on the show was really distracting, because it felt more like two people loud-whispering through a thin wall rather than a bloody great big security door. They're even saying the lines as they're speaking them, not 'thinking' them ... so then you wonder, has no Storm Trooper overheard anything that Reva says at this point or later in the episode where she's mumbling secret talky stuff with Obi-Wan?

However, what was really fucking stupid, was when Reva slices through the security door - the same one that was only scuffed after multiple shots from a huge cannon - with her lightsabre! Seriously, it cuts through like butter. What the actual fuck?

If it was that easy why didn't she just go ahead with that in the first place? Sure, she wants to get close to Vader to exact revenge as we now learn - but pretty much expected already - but wouldn't others get suspicious and ask why she didn't just do that straight away?

Also - when Reva sneaks up on Vader from behind and does the classic giveaway of telegraphing her strike with a scream, you just think, yet again, WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK?! He's Darth friggin' Vader, you don't think he'd feel you sneaking up on him? It was a cartoonishly bad ambush, all the more so as you see how effectively Vader fends her off.

I don't know why they didn't de-age Anakin a bit more, because he certainly looked older and more creased than he did in the same time frame in the prequel trilogy. A bit odd, that. Still, there was some better stuff in this episode, but even still, much of the episode is really only 'functional' rather than great.

"Functional" is about the best this show can manage, which just ain't good enough. At its worst it's insultingly stupid.

[shootemindehead]

The writing has been mediocre to downright awful on this. So many basic issues getting past what should be simple control points during script stage.

Astonishing really.

[MinionZombie]

The writing has been mediocre to downright awful on this. So many basic issues getting past what should be simple control points during script stage.

Astonishing really.

Infuriating, isn't it?

These are paid professionals and this is the best they can do? Riddled with plot holes, gaps in logic that are like chasms, sloppy characterisation, and an over-reliance on 'memberberries' over a robust structure of storytelling craft.

When 'basically functional' is your high point there's something severely rotten going on. Makes you seriously question the people hiring writers and directors who churn out dreck like this.

Apparently there's been some movements behind the scenes with a major exec at Disney shit-canned, but the trouble is that so many of these plates are set spinning years in advance, and it takes a lot to undo a many-tentacled fuck up that's gone down the wrong path.

I was reflecting on another aspect of the fifth episode - I cared much more for the death of a voiceless droid than the fate of any human character!

[shootemindehead]

Infuriating, isn't it?

These are paid professionals and this is the best they can do? Riddled with plot holes, gaps in logic that are like chasms, sloppy characterisation, and an over-reliance on 'memberberries' over a robust structure of storytelling craft.

When 'basically functional' is your high point there's something severely rotten going on. Makes you seriously question the people hiring writers and directors who churn out dreck like this.

Apparently there's been some movements behind the scenes with a major exec at Disney shit-canned, but the trouble is that so many of these plates are set spinning years in advance, and it takes a lot to undo a many-tentacled fuck up that's gone down the wrong path.

I was reflecting on another aspect of the fifth episode - I cared much more for the death of a voiceless droid than the fate of any human character!

I don't really know or understand where the malaise comes from either. I have to assume that the basic hiccups that we see in these Disney Star Wars efforts are, at least, spotted at some point by somebody. But whether they're acted upon is obviously not a concern to the company as a whole.

But there are just really basic scene issues getting through with incredible ease. Take Episode 5, as you mention, where the Imperials bring up a canon to try and blast their way through the huge metal doors and they're managing it very slowly. Then, literally, a few scenes later Reva slices through the doors and the giant lock with her lightsaber. How can there have been nobody at Disney that didn't spot a problem there? Or even worse, you have a great scene where Vader rips her a new arsehole, and then it's completely destroyed because he decides to leave her alive at the end of the fight. Austin Powers level of farce right there. Why bother even writing that scenario, when you're going to end it like that? Awful stuff. Just insulting to people's intelligence really.

I wonder if Disney really give a damn about the quality of these Star Wars items at all, or whether it's all just nebulous "content" to them to fill space on their channel. Because they don't seem to.

There's definitely some things in the show to like. But for everything that's handled well, there's always some easily remedied stupid nonsense that happens a few scenes later that brings the whole thing crashing down again.

[MinionZombie]

Yup, and plenty of 'meh' filling in-between.

I think they were trying to go with Vader 'having learned' something since the flashback scenes and after trashing that ship, which was taking off ... not being as petulant or ... something??? I wasn't really sure.

Honestly, it kinda smacked of "We're keeping Reva alive so she can have her own spin-off show that'll also be crap". It doesn't really 'fit', to me at least, for Vader to leave her alive. She knows that he knows she was planning to betray him, and she knows that Vader was using her to help get him closer to Obi-Wan, so there's literally no reason to keep her alive.

Speaking of that 'decoy ship' ... that seemed a bit silly, too. Wouldn't Vader have noticed the other ship in the background? Couldn't he have just done a quick draw bit of force hand stuff like he'd just done to stop that second ship getting away? Just seemed clunky and stupid, almost like a cartoon.

I still can't believe that Reva and the Grand Inquisitor were halted in their tracks by the flimsiest piece of awning you've ever seen. I mean, the escaping Jedi should have collapsed a sort of stone overhang that spanned the entire frontage of that building instead - enough of a blockage to really let him get away ... not some sticks and a couple of sheets flapping in the breeze ... I mean come the fuck on. It's like when Leia was getting chased and one of the pursuers hit a branch chest high and just kinda 404'd looking at it. They should have had Leia down a bunch of rabbit hole type tunnels and undergrowth that she perhaps likes to play in (could have set that up before hand, hiding in holes, jumping out to scare people and trick them etc), and so the full adult sized goons would have had a harder time getting her ... instead we had Carry On Toddler-Running. :stunned:

[shootemindehead]

Honestly, it kinda smacked of "We're keeping Reva alive so she can have her own spin-off show that'll also be crap". It doesn't really 'fit', to me at least, for Vader to leave her alive. She knows that he knows she was planning to betray him, and she knows that Vader was using her to help get him closer to Obi-Wan, so there's literally no reason to keep her alive.


Further to that Vader knew all along who she was but kept her around. Why? What reason did he have to do that?

If it was to help him get closer to Kenobi, what special talents did she possess that Vader needed? None of that is clear.

[MinionZombie]

Further to that Vader knew all along who she was but kept her around. Why? What reason did he have to do that?

If it was to help him get closer to Kenobi, what special talents did she possess that Vader needed? None of that is clear.

I think it was that reason, but the writers aren't much cop on this show, so they think that's a good enough reason on its own ... because reasons? ... when in reality, yeah, Reva has added very little to the show, like an awful lot of characters, for that matter. An awful lot of "remember them, huh, huh?" going on, while giving them very little to really do.

[ProfessorChaos]

former big-time star wars fan here, before the dark times....before the house of mouse came along and fucked up almost everything they've done with the franchise....and this show is a total snooze. highly forgettable, with shit writing and all kinds of dumb plot-lines and bits that make me scratch my head and wonder why they gotta mess with the cannon of the original films. too many to list here, as i'm tired and have too many things to do before bed than ponder what the greedy ass-hats were smoking when they came up with this show.

there's been a couple of cool darth vader scenes, but that's really about it for me. reva sucks and is a poorly-written character played by a young lady who doesn't seem to be that good of an actor ( and according to disney, i'm now a racist or something for not loving her character, which to me is just disney hiding behind a woman of color and the racism card to shield them from criticism for their half-assed wonky characters and story).

the whole thing feels unnecessary and a sneaky way to suck in disney+ subscribers. mz has made some rather eloquent arguments against this show's value, and i agree with almost everything he's said wholeheartedly. i could watch another few seasons of the adventures of the mandalorian and grogu as long as they don't keep dragging out the old cgi characters as fan-service, but this show has been a major let-down so far. i barely give enough of a shit to tune in for the finale.

2/10

[MinionZombie]

I also wonder about the morals of Reva's character.

Disney keep banging on about her being so awesome and how they're so looking forward to telling her story etc, but she's a fucking turncoat traitor to the Jedi ... and you could argue quite a selfish one at that. Just so she herself as a loner can maybe, hopefully get close enough to Vader to do something???, she has basically sold out everything Jedi in the process and has become an Inquisitor, who hunt down and torture Jedi or anyone who might know something about Jedi whereabouts.

Reva's an arsehole. There's nothing in that character for little girls to feel empowered by. The lesson appears to be 'betray the good guys and your own kind so you can selfishly pursue your own solitary and poorly thought-out agenda' (said agenda basically being, 'hang around doing terrible things until I get half a sniff at being alone with Vader and then I'll just sneak up on him like a cartoon and then fail completely because, oh yeah, he's a far superior Jedi).

However, these wonky morals have been seeping into a lot of mainstream media under the guise of trying to complicate characters, but the writers are entirely incapable of thinking more than one step ahead, or really examining what these actions really mean. They should be taking the likes of Walter White as a guidebook, but they're landing so far away from that that we're ending up with hugely flawed characters who aren't flawed because that's how they are for deep and complex reasons, no, they're flawed because they were written that way by people who aren't much good at writing.

I'm not sure if I missed something along the way regarding Reva, but just thinking about it while I read your post, Prof, I suddenly thought 'hang on a minute'... :eek:

[shootemindehead]

Reva's character doesn't make a damn bit of sense. Not for a second was I able to buy into her or her deeds. Plus, she's entirely unnecessary. There isn't a single aspect to her character that warranted it being included in the story. You could take Reva out of the picture entirely and bugger all changes. In fact I'd argue that not having her in the story would improve it quite a bit.

[MinionZombie]

Reva's character doesn't make a damn bit of sense.

Speaking of - in Episode #6:

After getting her arse handed to her by Vader, once her grand master plan of 'hunt and kill my own kind so I can, maybe on the off-chance, get close enough to the big bad so I can sneak up behind him and telegraph my striking blow from a mile away' had failed miserably, her next logical step was to ... ... ... go and try and kill Luke Skywalker ... ... ... ??? Why?

How does that help her whatsoever? Vader always knew she was dodgy, and definitely knows now, so she'll never be able to get back into the good books of the bad guys, and killing Luke would do nothing for her personally either ... so what on Earth, or Tatooine more appropriately, was she thinking?

It seriously made fuck all sense to me. I was scratching my head throughout all of that part of the episode.

The best stuff is what the show should have spent the majority of its running time focusing on - Obi-Wan and Anakin/Vader. Even though it's ultimately a stalemate plot as we know what eventually happens with all these characters, this show should have focused on Kenobi's own guilt in failing Anakin, Anakin seeking vegeance on Kenobi, and all the other shit going on between them.

But no, it was mostly cobblers, silly chase sequences, pretty pointless side characters who added little-to-nothing, and that incessant wibble-wobble cinematography during every single action scene (it was particularly egregious in the big action of episode #6).

I mean ... this show ... woof ... or, more appropriately, *pained Wookie growl*. :stunned:

[shootemindehead]

There are parts to it that were decent, but over all it was an extremely mediocre effort with an absolutely lousy character who's motivations were questionable at best when they weren't being downright absurd. But probably the worst offence, writing wise, was Vader leaving Reva alive after she tried to kill him. I just cannot fathom how any writer worth their salt could think that that was a good bit of story telling. Even the youngest in the audience must be thinking why didn't he not just kill her? But then in Episode 6 we get the same shit. Vader walks away from Kenobi thinking job done and then later on Kenobi walks away from Vader.

What the actual fuck?

Once again, we're left with a Star Wars yarn that I want to like more than I can because the writing was so, so, haphazard. It's not as terrible as the sequels or 'Solo' and it was a good bit more entertaining than 'The Book of Boba Fett'. But my god, is really that hard for Disney to hire writers that can knock out a story that makes sense? Or write characters that make sense?

[Neil]

Episode 6 sounds brilliant...

MZ's "wibble-wobble cinematography" gets a mention :)

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I think I'll not bother with the rest of the series (I was up to ep2).

[MinionZombie]

There were a couple of good points in that rant - particularly about how it affects other moments in Star Wars cannon.

Leia supposedly now has this deep connection with Obi-Wan from her (ruddy brief!) time with him as a kid, but when he gets snuffed out by Vader in A New Hope she couldn't give a shit - because she wasn't supposed to have known him. She's not 'hiding' her (again, ruddy brief!) friendship with him (I mean ... why anyway???), it's just shoddy writing that ignores the knock-on effect.

Prequels are riddled with potential problems - and OWK flags them up regularly. You're trapped by the story points to come in other films/shows, and anything you do has the potential to recontextualise the existing material for the worse.

Good point about Vader walking away from Reva, then walking away from Kenobi, and then Kenobi walking away from Vader. Their justification is some vague 'Jedi morals' shit or whatever, but it basically means Kenobi had a golden opportunity to snuff out Vader and save countless lives (and entire planets, even!), but didn't take it.

Then taking Reva away? Again, vague 'Jedi morals' shit, but we the viewer ain't Jedi and that shit don't fly morally speaking.

Interesting point about how it was basically 'thinking of Leia' rather than 'thinking of Luke' that suddenly gave OWK his powers a much-needed boost just when he needed it. So it was this girl he's not seen for a decade and has only hung around with for a few days, versus the boy he's been sworn to protect and has been doing so for a decade (albeit from afar). Like ... eh???

Also - yes - the widdly-wobbly camerawork was so jarring, not helped by some choppy editing. It felt like one of two things: covering up an unconvincing fight, or not knowing how to convincingly shoot a fight sequence ... or, actually, a third thing as well: just coming up with a rubbish way to cover the fight. The wobble felt so unnatural, almost 'programmed' in a way, like the camera shake in Kane & Lynch 2 (which was a game for the Xbox 360). It made it hard to follow what was happening and felt so jarring compared to so much of what else we've seen in the SW visual rulebook.

You have to wonder if a lot of the people involved in this really knew what they were doing (or cared)?

I also kept thinking to myself, cool as it looked, but wouldn't it be really hard to see much beyond the SUPER BRIGHT GLOW of your own lightsabre while having a fight in the dark? :lol: Mind you, maybe the only other thing you would be able to see would be someone else's lightsabre!

[ProfessorChaos]

yeah, that rant is pretty spot-on. reva, one of the worst characters in the history of star wars, has the most all-over-the-map motivations and ignorant ways to achieve her silly goal of trying to take down the most powerful jedi in history. as shootem said, you could just throw her entire character/plot on the writing room floor and it would have actually made the show better. in addition, too many moments that were meant to be suspenseful have no teeth if you know the slightest thing about the original star wars and the characters involved.

i must admit that i did enjoy some of the showdown between vader and kenobi in the finale, sans the shakey-cam shit. ewan mcgregor did a great job in the moments when he sees anakin's scarred face behind the shattered mask. and the way anakin/vader's voice was going in and out of the robotic sounds was a cool effect. vader's line about how he wasn't obi-wan's failure, and that he was the one who killed anakin skywalker was pretty impactful and the smile he threw in there was pretty haunting. those 30 seconds or so had me really sucked in and made me almost forget about a lot of the negative aspects of the series.

...however, aside from the darth vader stuff, this show was just too filled with woke crap, girl power moments, shitty plot points that are out of sync with the original films, and one of the worst, if not the absolute worst, characters in the star wars franchise. meh.

[Neil]

I won't bother with the rest of the series given all the above... Got over three seasons of Babylon 5 left to rewatch :)

[MinionZombie]

i must admit that i did enjoy some of the showdown between vader and kenobi in the finale, sans the shakey-cam shit. ewan mcgregor did a great job in the moments when he sees anakin's scarred face behind the shattered mask. and the way anakin/vader's voice was going in and out of the robotic sounds was a cool effect. vader's line about how he wasn't obi-wan's failure, and that he was the one who killed anakin skywalker was pretty impactful and the smile he threw in there was pretty haunting. those 30 seconds or so had me really sucked in and made me almost forget about a lot of the negative aspects of the series.

This is where the real meat of the story was, but it was shafted aside for too much of the running time and the first two episodes barely even touched upon it at all.

That section had some real grit to it, as well. If only the rest of the show had been up to that standard, but alas...

Doesn't exactly leave me champing at the bit to see Andor, or whatever it's called - again, a prequel about a character whose fate we already know. Golly, that'll be tense, then! :p

[Neil]

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[MinionZombie]

Yup, that's pretty much it in a nut shell.

It's staggering that professional screenwriters were paid and all they could accomplish was this junk, which is riddled with one of the new big sins of screenwriting for the current era: "things happen because reasons?????????? *shrug* that'll do."

[MinionZombie]

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Here you are, Neil - sums up the plot while simultaneously pointing out quite a lot of the stupidity. :D

[MinionZombie]

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Nerdrotic can be quite annoying at times, needlessly diminishing good points with silly voices and terminology used out of spite (and a somewhat reactionary baseline), but there's some good points made throughout this one (including some funny out-of-context lines for 'Creepy Kenobi').

Plus - in the comments:


Fuzzdog:
I love how Owen and Beru are so obsessed with protecting Luke and keeping him hidden that nine years later they're still living in exactly the same place that they were when someone from the Empire found and attempted to murder them all.

OldSchooled:
They also said they had been "preparing for this day". They then proceed to be terrible shots & their form of protection was for Luke to jump out a window and run for the hills.

[Neil]

- doh! -

[MinionZombie]

Literally posted that a coupld of posts down. :p

[Neil]

Literally posted that a coupld of posts down. :p

DOH! How did I miss that! OK then...

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