Andor (Disney+ series) - Star Wars

[Neil]

Some of this was filmed near me...

vsB0B1JFl-Q

[MinionZombie]

YXOOpSAoyYE

Please don't be shit *cough* Obi-Wan Kenobi *cough*

Apparently it's from the people who made Rogue One in the first place, sooooooo ... fingers very, very, very crossed.

If Disney mess this one up, though? Get tae fuck.

[MinionZombie]

Okay, so it seems opinion is split on this one. I was watching a video with the likes of Critical Drinker and Disparu on it, the latter was not chuffed with it, but Drinker was pleasantly surprised - although he also said that it doesn't really 'get going' until episode three, which is a bit bloody silly in itself.

Anyway - I've watched the first two episodes (of 12, I believe) today. I can see what folks mean by it being slow/deliberately paced, as episode two in particular feels fairly meandering. Certain asides bore me (the completely un-subtitled flashbacks to Cassian's childhood), while other portions I find quite interesting.

I think the biggest thing going for it is that it's basically removed from all of the trappings that either boxed-in or entirely trapped the likes of The Book of Boba Fett and Obi Wan Kenobi. It's able to be its own thing, take a different tack, tell a more 'grown up story' of sorts.

The first two episodes certainly have a problem when it comes to storytelling, though. It doesn't feel particularly vital with these two episodes, like 'this is a story that must be told right now!' ... remember how the very first episode of The Mandalorian went? We got world building, character building, and a big reveal at the end - the whole episode propelled us into the following seven at a hell of a lick.

Hopefully episode 3 of Andor really does push the narrative out of neutral and into drive, because it has potential (despite one or two god-awful cast interviews that almost put me off the entire thing).

[MinionZombie]

Caught up with the first four available episodes now.

Three definitely helps pick the pace up a bit after a curiously semi-plodding first couple of episodes. Is it up there with The Mandalorian? Certainly not, and not by quite a bit ... but is it better than the first four episodes of The Book of Boba Fett? Yes. Is it better than Obi Wan Kenobi? A boot up the arse is better than Obi Wan Kenobi ... ... so obviously.

It certainly has its flaws, many relating to its story structure and pacing, but its nice to be seeing a story that is a bit more 'elsewhere' in the galaxy and not revolving around the same few characters. I mean geez, it's "a long time ago in a GALAXY far, far away..." after all. They'd be better off telling new stories in different parts of the SW galaxy and shedding the shackles of the original trilogy, while remaining true to the spirit of said films. You get a bit of that with Andor.

[shootemindehead]

It's easily the best Star Wars tele thing that's been made. A straight forward story that makes sense with characters that make sense, and it doesn't destroy anything that came before it. At least not yet anyway. The acting is uniformly good and there are no stupid bunged in characters that will make you constantly question why they're even there...hello Reva!

It's been written by a grown up, for grown ups and it isn't hinged almost completely on nostalgia. At only 4 episodes in it has already trounced 'The Book of Boba Fett' and 'Kenobi' with ease, and if it can maintain the quality it'll surpass 'The Mandalorian' as well.

Frankly, I haven't seen any flaws yet.

[MinionZombie]

I'm somewhat surprised your review is so glowing.

I just don't see it being better than The Mandalorian, though. Just for the storytelling craft alone, Andor is weaker as it is sometimes unnecessarily slow, and the opening two episodes really should have had a bit more structure to them to get things running.

I wasn't keen on how it started either. There should have been a sequence that really set up the tone of living under the Empire's boot, that suggested both why it was so bad and therefore necessary to fight against, but also the danger in fighting back, just to really set the tone and get the ball rolling.

We see Andor "looking for his sister" in episode one, but he seems to have completely forgotten about that now because he's on-the-run, so why include it at all if you're going to dispense with it so quickly? It's things like that (and I didn't find his childhood flashback scenes to really add anything much either).

This all said, I'm appreciating the world building and that it is trying to be a bit more 'grown up/serious', a grittier tale in the SW world, which Rogue One kinda was as well.

So I just don't see it bettering The Mandalorian as, over all, that show has it all, but if it manages to find some clearer narrative direction and pace and also manages to tell its story in a way that is compelling (and consistently so), then it has a chance of running a very reasonable second place and stand way above the past two SW shows ... Obi Wan Kenobi as a distant, fart-scented spec waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay way away over there. :p

[shootemindehead]

Don't find it slow at all. It's steady, for sure, with things kicking up a notch in Episode 4. But, unlike Rings of Power, it isn't thoroughly boring. I appreciate that it's taking its time to build. It's certainly a more "adult" take on Star Wars that will require the viewer to be a little more patient. But so far the story has been very good.

The two planets we see at the beginning aren't under the Empire's boot though. They are relatively independent, rather like Bespin was in 'The Empire Strikes Back' until Vader intervened. Morlana One has to deal with Imperial bureaucracy, but they haven't been directly taken over until the security organisation there makes a balls of tracking down Andor and attracts Imperial attention. Likewise Ferrix seems to be operating independently of the Empire too. More than likely these planets just aren't of sufficient interest to the Empire or they haven't got the resources to make a presence there. There would, logically, be many planets throughout the galaxy that would have remained as such, paying lip service to the Empire, but maintaining an independent state.

Also, I dunno if Andor has forgotten about his "sister", more that he's been side tracked by other issues, i.e. he now has a price on his head and has been given passage out of the system by Skarsgard's character. But I suspect the "sister" thing will come back into play later.

As for 'The Mandalorian', it was good but kinda all over the place, with too many side quests that detracted from the main baby Yoda story. Plus, it got really dumb at times because everything was solved with a ridiculous fight against stupid odds that made no difference to the protagonists. I rolled my eyes so many times at characters standing out in the open when laser bolts and explosions were flying all over the place, not giving a tinkers cuss about their own lives. So sick of that kinda shite in movies and TV shows. There was just no tension in any of it. In terms of satisfying drama, 'Andor' already has it beat. Plus bringing back Boba Fett brought that show down a number of notches that it just couldn't recover from. Fuck that shite.

[MinionZombie]

Don't find it slow at all. It's steady, for sure, with things kicking up a notch in Episode 4. But, unlike Rings of Power, it isn't thoroughly boring. I appreciate that it's taking its time to build. It's certainly a more "adult" take on Star Wars that will require the viewer to be a little more patient. But so far the story has been very good.

The two planets we see at the beginning aren't under the Empire's boot though. They are relatively independent, rather like Bespin was in 'The Empire Strikes Back' until Vader intervened. Morlana One has to deal with Imperial bureaucracy, but they haven't been directly taken over until the security organisation there makes a balls of tracking down Andor and attracts Imperial attention. Likewise Ferrix seems to be operating independently of the Empire too. More than likely these planets just aren't of sufficient interest to the Empire or they haven't got the resources to make a presence there. There would, logically, be many planets throughout the galaxy that would have remained as such, paying lip service to the Empire, but maintaining an independent state.

1) I agree that it isn't "boring". It has kept my interest, even if the odd tangent has left me cold or a bit baffled as to its necessity, but aye, it's not boring. I do enjoy the world building that's going on, and getting a different look/angle on the world through different eyes that are nowhere in the vicinity of a Jedi, for instance.

I think it's the sense of narrative propulsion is a bit patchy. Sometimes the building blocks of its story feel a little vague, or not quite connected enough ... lacking a little bit of drive. By comparison, House of the Dragon isn't all crash-bang-wollop either, but it's talky scenes are filled with lots of intrigue and you understand the politics of the interconnected characters and the line of ascension, etc, so you inherently feel the drama from that. I've been a bit hot and cold with Andor in terms of the story and characters and how all the pieces are to fit together, but only sometimes.

2) You've made some of it make a little more sense for me in regards to those planets. A little more guidance on some of those points from the show itself might have served me well, unless my mind has been wandering again (I've always had an issue with my mind wandering down it's own little alleyways, getting hung up on some snippet of story and following it elsewhere as the show continues on, haha) ... so maybe it's me, or maybe it's a little bit the show as well. I'm not a Star Wars fanatic, but I do enjoy Star Wars, so some of these things might fly over my head a bit or slip past me.

That's something that could have been finessed in the storytelling, a bit - to have a comparison of another planet which is under the Empire's jackboot, where we could have been introduced to Andor, and then he has to flee to a planet that isn't yet under the boot, but Andor's presence and the security force fuck up suddenly draws the Empire's eye to it. That could lead to some interesting high stakes and drama right there.

I think it's maybe some of the choices in the story that I've rubbed up against at times, kinda wanting it to take slightly different routes to things that I feel would be more effective.

It sounds like I'm being quite down on the show, which I don't intend to be - I am looking forward to the next episode, but I do wonder if it really needs to be 12 episodes. In this day and age I don't think there's any reason for any show or mini-series to be anything more than ten episodes.

[shootemindehead]

1) I agree that it isn't "boring". It has kept my interest, even if the odd tangent has left me cold or a bit baffled as to its necessity, but aye, it's not boring. I do enjoy the world building that's going on, and getting a different look/angle on the world through different eyes that are nowhere in the vicinity of a Jedi, for instance.

Frankly, I'm sick to death of Jedi's and all that nonsense. They are now, essentially, supermen with a power to overcome all situations and it's gotten completely out of hand at this stage. One could argue that it had got to ridiculous depths with the prequels and I'd find that correct, because when compared with what a Jedi could do in the original trilogy, it's like chalk and cheese. By the time we get to the sequels we're really in stupid territory. So I'm very happy to see what's happening elsewhere away from Skywalker's and Jedi.


I think it's the sense of narrative propulsion is a bit patchy. Sometimes the building blocks of its story feel a little vague, or not quite connected enough ... lacking a little bit of drive. By comparison, House of the Dragon isn't all crash-bang-wollop either, but it's talky scenes are filled with lots of intrigue and you understand the politics of the interconnected characters and the line of ascension, etc, so you inherently feel the drama from that. I've been a bit hot and cold with Andor in terms of the story and characters and how all the pieces are to fit together, but only sometimes.

I've had absolutely no issue with the pacing or "propulsion" of the show so far. I've found that its steady reveal has been carried out in a reasonably logical fashion. It may not be in a hurry to lash through its yarn, but I'm perfectly OK with that. Plus, we're only 4 episodes into this. Not even half way through.

Haven't seen a single episode of 'House of the Dragon' so cannot comment on that. I'll sit down to it when it's all or mostly available.


2) You've made some of it make a little more sense for me in regards to those planets. A little more guidance on some of those points from the show itself might have served me well, unless my mind has been wandering again (I've always had an issue with my mind wandering down it's own little alleyways, getting hung up on some snippet of story and following it elsewhere as the show continues on, haha) ... so maybe it's me, or maybe it's a little bit the show as well. I'm not a Star Wars fanatic, but I do enjoy Star Wars, so some of these things might fly over my head a bit or slip past me.

I cannot claim to be a Star Wars fanatic myself and, TBH, I dislike more of it than I like, because a lot of it is just shite. Luckily for me I can jettison the crap (the PT, the ST, Solo, cartoons) and keep the good stuff (The OT, Rogue One, The Mandalorian and hopefully Andor) which focuses on the period I'm mostly interested in anyway which is the Imperial period and the post civil war. Everything else that has been tried leaves me very cold indeed. I was never interested in the Old Republic and Disney's utterly dreadful New Republic/First Order gibberish was especially poor.

However, I can understand some people being put off by the lack of "Star Wars stuff" in the first couple of episodes and 'Andor' can come off as just another generic sci-fi show for its first hour. I'm sure people expected to see Stormtroopers and whatnot and instead were confronted by some obscure security forces on some vague industrial planet instead. But I just took it as a place where Imperial reach had not been extended yet for whatever reason. They can't be everywhere at once. I suppose that aspect has just always been clear to me. Even in the original 'Star Wars' Tatooine was just some remote backwater that the Empire has no interest in until they had to despatch a contingent of troops to look for R2D2 and C3PO. Bespin, too, was allowed to carry out its mining operations free from Imperial interference until Lando tried to sell out Luke Skywalker to Vader. So, logically, there must be hundreds of planets that are outside of the war and carrying on as best they can, with some of them well disposed to the Empire and having business contracts with them too.


That's something that could have been finessed in the storytelling, a bit - to have a comparison of another planet which is under the Empire's jackboot, where we could have been introduced to Andor, and then he has to flee to a planet that isn't yet under the boot, but Andor's presence and the security force fuck up suddenly draws the Empire's eye to it. That could lead to some interesting high stakes and drama right there.

Well Cassian Andor appears to be on the run from the Empire and/or ( :D ) his former allies. He claims to have fought on Mimban (the mud planet in 'Solo'), even though Stellan Skarsgard's character says that he was actually just a cook and that he deserted which was why he was still alive. So he's out on these remote planets for a reason. But I'm not too sure that having a comparison of another planet under Imperial rule would do much in the end and besides, most of the audience already knows what the Empire is like anyway. But I'm sure that as the series progresses, we'll have more information revealed that will make things clearer. I don't think everything needs to be front loaded.


It sounds like I'm being quite down on the show, which I don't intend to be - I am looking forward to the next episode, but I do wonder if it really needs to be 12 episodes. In this day and age I don't think there's any reason for any show or mini-series to be anything more than ten episodes.

Depending on the story, 12 episodes can be fine, but 10 is probably the sweet spot. Bear in mind though that these Disney Star Wars efforts are only about a half hour or forty minutes long per episode when you excise the unnecessary re-cap at the beginning and the incredibly long credits at the end. There's probably only been about 2 hours of actual story so far. But I agree when we're getting into the 16 episode territory, things can get quite stale. That kind of thing has a lot to do with my drift away from 'The Walking Dead', which suffers from far too much blarney and not enough substance.

[MinionZombie]

Episode 6 was very good, plenty happening in this one - and about time.

I'm enjoying the show, but it has been a bit reluctant to put its foot down a smidge more. It doesn't need to be all guns blazing and explosions, we just need the narrative to move with a bit more purpose at times.

Perhaps if they were releasing these in three-episode chunks it would feel pacier, as the 3/3/3/3 structure to the episodes (with each trio being a sort of three act structure movie in itself) stretched out week-to-week can mean you end up with slower weeks. For example, last week felt particularly slow as the needle didn't move all that much - but then this week the needle was jumping big style.

Despite some pacing issues I am now quite enjoying Andor, a welcome improvement (and a considerable improvement at that) after the utterly woeful Obi-Wan Kenobi.

[Neil]

Episode 6 was very good, plenty happening in this one - and about time.
That's about how I feel with House of Dragons... Just too pondery for me :(

I'll wait until the end of this season of Andor for an overall review before diving in.

[MinionZombie]

That's about how I feel with House of Dragons... Just too pondery for me :(

I'll wait until the end of this season of Andor for an overall review before diving in.

I don't get that about House of the Dragon, because there's always plenty happening. It's not dragons flying all over and major deaths or battle scenes, but in terms of the story there's so much happening in HOTD and so much conflict; it's all pretty darn juicy.

Now, the issue with HOTD is that the time jumps recently have meant various characters being re-cast, and they're not using people's names enough, so I can't keep track of who's who beyond the major players, so I find myself getting a smidge confused at times or a bit lost and having to wait to figure out what's going on with certain folks at times. I wonder if this season is a lot of the setting up and then they'll slow down with the time jumps and be able to then basically explore a follow-up story at their own pace come season two.

It's probably a good idea to wait until Andor is all there. Watching the first three/four in close succession helped with the pacing, but going between 4-5-6 week-to-week, it definitely felt like I needed a bit more forward movement IMO. Still really enjoying it, though, just feels like the 12 episodes should've been 10.

[MinionZombie]

Okay, so just two episodes to go and I'm really enjoying it. I look forward to each new episode every Wednesday, which I certainly didn't experience during The Book Of Boba Fett or most definitely with feckin' Obi-Wan Kenobi.

I still think it's over-long at 12 episodes, with episodes 1 & 2 and 4 & 5 suffering from the most padding/slow pacing, but this grittier view of life under the Empire at a more 'everyday Joe Bloggs' level (some ragtag rebels, Empire jobsworths, prisoners etc) has helped flesh out the galaxy far, far away just a little bit more. Just goes to show what can be explored when you step outside the orbit of the 'Holy Trilogy'.

[shootemindehead]

It's been excellent all the way through for me. Cannot think of the last time I looked forward to a show week to week. Best thing on TV in a long, long, time. Hopefully Disney are taking notice to the high praise that this is getting.

[MinionZombie]

It's been excellent all the way through for me. Cannot think of the last time I looked forward to a show week to week. Best thing on TV in a long, long, time. Hopefully Disney are taking notice to the high praise that this is getting.

I've heard that they had had Andor in the can for a while, but delayed it so they could shit out Obi-Wan Kenobi first. :eek:

Considering how dreadfully awful OWK was, that's no doubt had a negative impact on Andor in terms of viewership, which doesn't deserve such a hit as it's sooooooooooooooo much better than OWK. I mean it's chalk and cheese, apples and oranges, diamonds and stepped-on dog turds. :lol:

However, I've certainly seen a consistently positive reaction to Andor from those who have seen it.

I wonder how the viewing figures are - are they increasing over time as more people cotton on to it not being shit, for example? Mind you, these streamers are so secretive about their numbers *cough* Amazon Prime and Rings of Power *splutter*.

[shootemindehead]

Well shooting on S02 begins this month, so figures must be positive enough in that regard. Although I've heard that the figures aren't as high as the likes of the Baby Yoda show. But that's kinda to be expected really.

[MinionZombie]

Well shooting on S02 begins this month, so figures must be positive enough in that regard. Although I've heard that the figures aren't as high as the likes of the Baby Yoda show. But that's kinda to be expected really.

IIRC it was planned from the get-go as a two-season dealio, but good to know they're underway.

Andor has a very different vibe from The Mandalorian. The latter is more of a jolly good romp, often dipping into the familiar sandbox of the Jedi and whatnot, whereas Andor is in the more 'normal' and 'scrungy' corners of the world. The Mandalorian is suitable for all ages, whereas Andor isn't going to appeal to the kiddywinks - or so I would assume, anyway. It's much more subtle (relatively speaking), tougher and grittier - all that prison stuff was pretty bleak in some regards, while the political movements with the rise of the Empire's tyranny and having to figure out ways to move money secretly to rebel causes is all a bit more Cold War than World War.

I loved episode ten, btw. Real fist-in-the-air stuff, and that meeting with what's-his-name and the man-on-the-inside was excellent.

I wonder what happens to the chap who couldn't swim! :p

[MinionZombie]

iytVI2YudqQ

[MinionZombie]

pPhEsoSAhvY

Pretty much nails it on Andor. A very good show with the misfortune of following a couple of stinkers.

I completely disagree on Drinker's flippant dismissal of The Mandalorian, though. I'm sensing a 'cool to hate it now' vibe going on with Mando whiffing about the web.

[Neil]

Finally binge watched this. Very good! The review above is pretty spot on.

Shame the next season is at least a year off!