Had Flyboy not opened fire on the bikers

[CaldoTheKid]

Would they have eventually left or was war unavoidable?

[JDP]

Would they have eventually left or was war unavoidable?

Most likely they would just have left after looting the stores. They didn't really care about the people holed up in the mall, all they wanted was access to the goodies at the mall.

[beat_truck]

If they had stayed quiet, who's to say whether the raiders would have ever found them or not. But, they probably would have had to leave either way. The place was pretty trashed and overrun with zombies again.

[JDP]

If their intention had been to take over the mall, that would have been different, because then sooner or later there would have been a confrontation between the people who were already there and the newcomers. But their actions plainly show that they only wanted to loot and then leave, they made no effort whatsoever to try to keep the zombies from reentering the mall. If they had wanted to keep the mall for themselves, they could simply have closed and then blocked the bay doors after getting in. They certainly had the man-power and firepower to do it.

[MinionZombie]

The main issues would be clearing out the zombies whilst also blocking off the entrance (through which the bikers swept into the mall). You've got a heavily pregnant Fran, so she can't really go crawling through air shafts to help out in the mall, but could provide some cover from the roof, but there's only so much she could do.

So it'd be down to just Peter and Flyboy, so the odds are stacking against them in this scenario. There's also the question of the doors/locks being damaged potentially, so your 'zombie seal' could be compromised as well.

This is all assuming the bikers hadn't spotted either Peter or Flyboy (despite, in this scenario, Flyboy not opening fire). It could've still gone sideways.

There'd probably be too much damage/risk in staying, too - all that chaos and noise would draw more zombie attention potentially, hemming you in.

Ideally, back when they were originally blocking the doors, they'd have done a better job at rendering the trucks immobile - ripping the guts out of the ignition system, for example, and slashing the tyres (even more ideally removing the rubber altogether - but that's a tough ask to pull off).

[JDP]

The only way this question made sense to me is: whether the bikers would have left or taken over the mall had a war not developed between them and the people already holed up at the mall, not whether the group already safely holed up at the mall would have chosen to leave because the bikers were raiding the mall. They had no reason to leave, not even if the zombies overran the mall again. They were very safely hidden from them. The zombies simply do not have the IQ to figure out that the part of the wall concealing the entrance to their hideout is actually just a facade. The only thing that backfired on them in the end is that Flyboy turned into a zombie and led the other zombies to the hiding place. That's why they had to split. Otherwise, they could have remained there until they ran out of food and water without fear that the dim-witted zombies would have discovered them.

But had the bikers chosen to take over the mall instead of just looting and allowing the zombies to eventually overrun the place again, that would have been completely different. Sooner or later the bikers would have figured out where they were hiding. It's only a matter of time. They would have definitely chosen to leave the mall before the newcomers discover how to get to the roof area.

[EvilNed]

I think the point was to show that their existence was untenable. These guys would not be the last looters, there would be others, and others after that. While the mall seems like an ideal place to hold out because of all of it's storage, goods and wares it's also a beacon for any other survivors.

[JDP]

I think the point was to show that their existence was untenable. These guys would not be the last looters, there would be others, and others after that. While the mall seems like an ideal place to hold out because of all of it's storage, goods and wares it's also a beacon for any other survivors.

Except that looting the mall now would be quite more difficult, as the first wave of looters left the loading docks and the doors of the stores wide open, allowing the zombies to eventually swamp the whole place. This would actually be an advantage for the people safely holed up in the roof area. The dull zombies are never going to discover how to arrive there, so they only have to keep an eye out for any other looters, who this time are going to think it twice before trying to pull that off. The zombies now are acting as a more effective deterrent for any other looters.

The biker gang really should have taken over the mall. They had the man-power and firepower to do so. The people holed up in the roof area would certainly have taken off, since they were vastly outnumbered and outgunned, leaving no opposition for the bikers. Peter is well aware that their disorganized, chaotic behavior is their weakness: "With those bay doors open, there's gonna be a thousand zombies in here. That'll take the heat off us. These guys are gonna have their hands full." So, he is no rush to get back to the roof and take off. He knew that the bikers were not going to take over the mall, the zombies eventually were. The bikers were there just to loot and then leave. They were not a permanent threat.

[EvilNed]

Yeah I still think it was more to show that looters were inevitable. Our characters would have realized that, stayed or not.

[JDP]

Yeah, only that they had already realized that long before the bikers even showed up, that's why Peter wisely took the precaution of hiding the entrance to the machine room and roof area. The advantages of a place chock-full of supplies and the difficulty of finding the way to their hideout made it just too good and convenient for them to want to leave, even if looters or government patrols could show up any day.

[facestabber]

Im way late to this but any chance to talk Dawn is worth time. One of my favorite survival mechanisms in any style of zombie flick was the wall and hidden entrance to the hideout. Doors can be breached so just disappear the door all together. Love it. The only weakness to that is the beacon that is the helicopter on the roof. Combined with the trucks blocking the entrances. Any on lookers know there are people inside. What they wouldnt know is the numbers. Time consuming, yet worthwhile surveillance of a period of significant time could give a ball park idea but nothing concrete to the numbers inside.

Enter the biker gang. It ended up being a perfect storm of an enemy. The numbers inside the mall was a concern albeit not much as they took the chance anyway. They had the numbers, the careless attitude and took a gigantic chance. I never felt they would have put much effort into searching for the inside group. They wanted material things and would have left after getting their junk.

A question I have always pondered is how could the group have made the entrances not worth the effort to try to get inside. Disabling the trucks seemed like the first line of defense. If possible plywood covered walls just inside the glass could have been another obstacle that slows down invaders. Shooting the glass out doesnt take much effort but finding a way through or over plywood walls takes tools, time and resources. Any slowdown to entry is a win and a deterant.

Sadly, our favorite group of survivors did not have the numbers to cover the entrances. I'd love to hear others ideas on what steps they could have take to protect entry, both ground level and roof.

[JDP]

Im way late to this but any chance to talk Dawn is worth time. One of my favorite survival mechanisms in any style of zombie flick was the wall and hidden entrance to the hideout. Doors can be breached so just disappear the door all together. Love it. The only weakness to that is the beacon that is the helicopter on the roof. Combined with the trucks blocking the entrances. Any on lookers know there are people inside. What they wouldnt know is the numbers. Time consuming, yet worthwhile surveillance of a period of significant time could give a ball park idea but nothing concrete to the numbers inside.

Enter the biker gang. It ended up being a perfect storm of an enemy. The numbers inside the mall was a concern albeit not much as they took the chance anyway. They had the numbers, the careless attitude and took a gigantic chance. I never felt they would have put much effort into searching for the inside group. They wanted material things and would have left after getting their junk.

A question I have always pondered is how could the group have made the entrances not worth the effort to try to get inside. Disabling the trucks seemed like the first line of defense. If possible plywood covered walls just inside the glass could have been another obstacle that slows down invaders. Shooting the glass out doesnt take much effort but finding a way through or over plywood walls takes tools, time and resources. Any slowdown to entry is a win and a deterant.

Sadly, our favorite group of survivors did not have the numbers to cover the entrances. I'd love to hear others ideas on what steps they could have take to protect entry, both ground level and roof.

Disabling the trucks would have been difficult, as it would have had to be done once they were put in place blocking the entrances, and the whole place is swarming with zombies. Just rapidly switching trucks in that area was already dangerous. Any disabling would have to be done from inside the trucks themselves, and the more time it takes to do that, the more zombies are going to congregate around the trucks, making it even more dangerous for the person doing the disabling to go back to the waiting running truck.

They could also have used trucks to block the loading docks, which is the place that the biker gang actually ends up using to break into the mall, but I suspect they could not do it because Roger was wounded by that zombie, he could no longer continue doing more such dangerous stunts, and Flyboy could simply not take his place (he does not have the experience to do such things, plus he is needed to fly the chopper, they cannot risk anything happening to him.)

As for things they could have tried from the inside: the plywood is a good idea. Also, if they had access to welding equipment (we don't know), they could have welded the doors and loading docks shut. The problem they had is that with Roger pretty much incapacitated for helping do such things, and Fran being pregnant, it was really only two men who would have had to try to do all this work. They were short on manpower.

[facestabber]

Disabling the trucks would have been difficult, as it would have had to be done once they were put in place blocking the entrances, and the whole place is swarming with zombies. Just rapidly switching trucks in that area was already dangerous. Any disabling would have to be done from inside the trucks themselves, and the more time it takes to do that, the more zombies are going to congregate around the trucks, making it even more dangerous for the person doing the disabling to go back to the waiting running truck.

They could also have used trucks to block the loading docks, which is the place that the biker gang actually ends up using to break into the mall, but I suspect they could not do it because Roger was wounded by that zombie, he could no longer continue doing more such dangerous stunts, and Flyboy could simply not take his place (he does not have the experience to do such things, plus he is needed to fly the chopper, they cannot risk anything happening to him.)

As for things they could have tried from the inside: the plywood is a good idea. Also, if they had access to welding equipment (we don't know), they could have welded the doors and loading docks shut. The problem they had is that with Roger pretty much incapacitated for helping do such things, and Fran being pregnant, it was really only two men who would have had to try to do all this work. They were short on manpower.

I always wondered, considering Fran had a shooting position on the roof with an angle to shoot the zombie off Roger, why couldn't Peter send a few rounds through the radiator and engine components after the task was done? Ofcourse the plot needed Roger to be reckless but moving the trucks together, even contacting each other would have been so much safer. Go engine to engine, Roger could bust out windshield and walk hood to hood minimizing risk. He could still slip or fall off but I would chose that over going to the ground.

Welding equip would have been great. Wouldnt be far fetched that there was some there. And yes, no doubt manpower was a major factor. End of the day, they could only make entry harder not impossible.

[JDP]

I always wondered, considering Fran had a shooting position on the roof with an angle to shoot the zombie off Roger, why couldn't Peter send a few rounds through the radiator and engine components after the task was done? Ofcourse the plot needed Roger to be reckless but moving the trucks together, even contacting each other would have been so much safer. Go engine to engine, Roger could bust out windshield and walk hood to hood minimizing risk. He could still slip or fall off but I would chose that over going to the ground.

Welding equip would have been great. Wouldnt be far fetched that there was some there. And yes, no doubt manpower was a major factor. End of the day, they could only make entry harder not impossible.

You could shoot the engine and radiator from a distance, but that could still leave the truck operational enough to just move a bit. Anyone wanting to gain access to the mall does not have to move the trucks a lot, only enough to unblock the entrances.

Notice that they did try that approach with the second truck, but there still was some danger when going from one truck to another, as there was still a "gap" between the trucks for some of the zombies to squeeze in, making the person moving from one truck to the other potentially exposed to their grasp.

I would imagine that if the hardware sections of the department stores did not have any, then the maintenance area (i.e. where the control center, janitorial supplies, machine rooms, etc. are) would likely have welding equipment. It would be needed for whatever metal repairs the mall might require.

- - - Updated - - -

I got the last post of 2023 right above, and your first post of 2024 right here! DOUBLE GRAND SLAM!!!

[Neil]

Lol!!