Taking on big brother

[zombiegirl]

Sometimes I really wonder why there is not more people standing up to the big brother tactics of our current president. Kudos to this judge is San Fran. If only there were more like him/her.
Personally, at&t just took over my local service and I can tell you vonage is looking better and better all the time.


SAN FRANCISCO -- The Bush administration is appealing a ruling that allowed a lawsuit to go forward challenging President George W. Bush's warrantless domestic spying program.

A federal judge in San Francisco rejected government claims that the suit could expose state secrets and jeopardize the war on terrorism.

The July 20 ruling contended that the eavesdropping was so widely reported there appeared to be no danger of spilling secrets.


The case, which names AT&T as a defendant, is among three dozen lawsuits alleging telecommunications companies and the government are illegally intercepting communications without warrants.

The San Francisco lawsuit was filed by the Electronic Frontier Foundation privacy group. It challenges Bush's assertion that he can use his wartime powers to eavesdrop on Americans without a warrant.

[general tbag]

i am a die hard qwest customer after that, it nice to know someone ask ' is this legal' and looked into it.

i wish kennedy would of lived, he was proposing of giving the state goverment more power than the federal gov.

[coma]

Geo should read the constitution

[Arcades057]

The trick is to find a good distinction between safety and the public's need to know. When the public knows EVERYTHING, nothing can get done, because one segment of the populace will always disagree with something (or in this case, everything). If the public knows everything besides those tools used to keep them safe, that should be OK. Since people don't like Bush, however, every small thing he does (yes, every large thing too) will be blown out of all proportion by the press and others. The fact that Clinton used this same tactic during his reign against supposed white supremacists and others is not mentioned, nor will it be.

At least Bush is using it against people who want to kill ALL Americans. People who are not Americans to begin with.

Remember Waco and Ruby Ridge. That was the result of Clinton's spying on Americans.

[Adrenochrome]

Remember Waco and Ruby Ridge. That was the result of Clinton's spying on Americans.
Excellent point.

[coma]

The trick is to find a good distinction between safety and the public's need to know. When the public knows EVERYTHING, nothing can get done, because one segment of the populace will always disagree with something (or in this case, everything). If the public knows everything besides those tools used to keep them safe, that should be OK. Since people don't like Bush, however, every small thing he does (yes, every large thing too) will be blown out of all proportion by the press and others. The fact that Clinton used this same tactic during his reign against supposed white supremacists and others is not mentioned, nor will it be.

At least Bush is using it against people who want to kill ALL Americans. People who are not Americans to begin with.

Remember Waco and Ruby Ridge. That was the result of Clinton's spying on Americans.


Killing the people in Waco and the family of (dont remember his name) was wrong because of guilt by accociation. I'm not at all convinced (to put it mildly) that was the result of sweeping wiretap powers involving every single citizen of the US. Y'know, Due Process, Illegal search and siezure. Those inconvient bill of rights thingys.
Clinton hasn't been prez for 6 years, in case you haven't noticed.
I know, People hate Bu*h so much if he said the sky was blue, he'd be villified for it. It has never had anything to do with authoritarian policies and continuous lies and corruption/Graft.
I have a problem with every person treated as a criminal. I am not a criminal, and would never be. So there is no right to catalog any of my movements or correspondence EVER.
IF others want to give up their freedom, go ahead. I will never submit willingly.
But it's not as if I have a choice.

"supposed white supremacists"?!?!!

[MinionZombie]

It's a good thing someone is standing up, a damn sight more people need to do the same however, there's far too much complacency going on - especially here in the UK.

Terrorism has always been with us, it's not exactly new, it's just the only thing going on right now, and our respective gubments are using it as an excuse for any kind of "security measure", irrespective of the pandora's box of implications that would be opened up - especially in terms of normal people's privacy. If all this wire-tapping, and database building etc and so-on was allowed to go forth without any hassle we'd soon end up living our lives like "1984" or "Equilibrium", constantly spied upon.

It's like in the UK - another LABOUR botch job has been the issue of I.D. cards. The vast majority of the British public DON'T want them, yet they steamed ahead, until surprise surprise they met a load of complications as they'd not bothered to think anything through beyond making a splash in the tabloid headlines. How on earth will a crappy piece of plastic stop terrorism? Answer - it won't. Closing off your borders with tighter security (none of Blair's retarded "open door" crap) will do a damn sight more to help than a slip of plastic, which is linked to a big computer somewhere with everyone's vital statistics on. A computer apparently "hacker proof", but which anybody who didn't ejaculate all over the quick-fix idea of I.D. cards will immediately point out is complete bollocks, it would be hacked and another box-o-pandora would have it's bloody doors blown off.

*ahem*

Got into a bit of a rant there, but it's all from this ridiculous level of public scrutinising. The privacy and identity safety of BILLIONS at risk because of a few bad eggs, there ARE better ways to sort this mess out - but they require some patience and some *shock horror* THOUGHT. :eek:

[DjfunkmasterG]

I hope they sue the Gov't right into the whole.... which it already is, but I am glad some judge finally has the balls to stand up against this tyrannt they call a president.

Now all we need to do is take him and all of the republican politicians out to the white house front lawn and have them hanged for violations against the people of the United States of America.

I will celebrate the day the Republican party is banned, and is forced to hide in secrecy like the Underground Frat Balls & Shaft. We should all storm the white house and drag ole GW outside and immed. try and convict, then impeach and immed put to death this man who has completely f*cked our counrty to the point it can be fixed under any kind of republican rule.

[Arcades057]

DJ, if I said the same things about the Democrats for giving us the tax system we have, the deballed military we have, terrorism which we could have ended in the late 70s, the failure of Vietnam and the possible failure of this war, the allowing of N Korea to become the nuclear menace that it has become, imminent (or eminent) domain, and the overall appeasement of enemies worldwide, you'd see the roof cave in on me. But I don't, because that's the sort of thing an idiot would say, and I don't think you are an idiot.

Would I be happy with these same sort of laws if Hilary was using them? Probably not; not because she's a liberal, not because she'sa woman or a democrat, but because I have a feeling she'd use that power to go after other things, like people with a lot of guns (like Waco) or like people with white-supremacist leanings (like Ruby Ridge; which is protected in the Constitution, mind you). If one of you can find ONE instance of the Patriot law being misused (besides the Democrat governor of either Texas or Nevada using it to lock up a ranch owner who forced illegal border jumpers from his farm, that is) please, by all means, post them. Better yet, find one at a place that is reputable, not some moron's blog who swears he was. As yet, I have yet to hear anything about anyone, besides that one rancher, who was adversely affected by the Patriot law without due cause. The same thing goes for the phone thing.

Basically, if you're on the phone talking to your friend in Saudi Arabia and you're discussing bombs and vans and Anthrax, I want our gubbment to know about it. And the idea that any of you on this web board should be worried, LoL, please, :rolleyes: How many of you have friends or family in the Middle East? How many of you talk to them on a routine basis? How many of you discuss bombs and terror-related things when you do? Here's the big one: How many of you are terrorists or their supporters? That's like when you get questioned by the cops and they ask "are you nervous?" The wrong answer is "Yeah, every time I deal with you guys bad things happen." Means you're guilty. If you're worried about getting caught for terrorism, then you are a) a terrorist or b) a moron.

Which are you?