Yea im pissed//Rep System *MERGED*

[HLS]

I apparently missed something. From what I remember the decision was to keep the rep system. Then this morning I noticed it gone. Did I miss some sort of announcement? I was just starting to like the system :D :shifty:

[jscott]

http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/showthread.php?t=3329

[general tbag]

translation : even though it was voted to keep it threw a democratic MAJORITY process , the admins were presuaded by the MINORITY whiners to get rid of it.

I get that strange deja vu feeling of the whole bush / gore thing again with that announcement.

[general tbag]

So all the recent crap on this site, and i do say crap , aka people being banned and having drama episodes mixed in with whining about a MAJORITY win vote about the rep system. ADMins WTF ! With some people abusing the system and such it seems a tad harsh and stupid to give in . but you kno whatever.

[Cody]

some sort of a "change" has happened since the new forums were established back in 02' it was the best

[Adrenochrome]

not sure what this is all about, but, I got an email the other day from HLS telling me that she has Andy and Neil "under her thumb" - now, I know that's crap, but,.....you're right, there is WAY too much drama here and not enough zombie/GAR talk.
If I wanted a soap opera I'd turn on Oprah.

[Cody]

whatever not that important if it is or is not here, I voted yeah because it was kinda cool but then some ppl did abuse it but if its gone idk just got a kick out of it

[Andy]

Ive merged 2 topics as im not answering the same questions in 2 different topics.


not sure what this is all about, but, I got an email the other day from HLS telling me that she has Andy and Neil "under her thumb" - now, I know that's crap, but,.....you're right, there is WAY too much drama here and not enough zombie/GAR talk.
If I wanted a soap opera I'd turn on Oprah.

First off, she can think what she likes, she can try pushing me and see where it gets her. Im under no-ones thumb.

Secondly, with all due respect, its up to the members what they talk about. if you guys want to talk about zombies and GAR and such, we've given the facilities and the area to discuss this. if you want to make this a drama and throw mud at each other and us, that again is up to you guys. i cant control what members talk about. see what im saying andreno?


So all the recent crap on this site, and i do say crap , aka people being banned and having drama episodes mixed in with whining about a MAJORITY win vote about the rep system. ADMins WTF ! With some people abusing the system and such it seems a tad harsh and stupid to give in . but you kno whatever.

The drama episodes and bannings are what we are trying to stop with decisions like this. and posts like yours are not helping the cause.


translation : even though it was voted to keep it threw a democratic MAJORITY process , the admins were presuaded by the MINORITY whiners to get rid of it.

I get that strange deja vu feeling of the whole bush / gore thing again with that announcement.

i want to clear up right now, forums are not democracies.

sorry to be cruel but if you guys genuinely believe that, your gonna get knocked back again and again and thats not just here its on any forums.

We might ask your opinion sometimes, Neil might ask my opinion or the moderators.. but whatever is said, however many vote for this or that, the webmasters decision is always final.

sorry guys but its the way the internet works.

[Neil]

I was never particularly in favour of the reputation system. On a "technical" forum where people are asking for help etc, and someone can give help, then I can fully see how a reputation system can work - It's basically an emotionless reward from one person to another.

However, what my concern was here, was that the awarding of reputation was going to be to abritary. Now this was never really any issue, until some people started either taking the system to lightly - and p$$$ing around with it, or just too seriously.

Recent events did little to improve the situation, so after reconsidering the issue, it was decided to save the admins lots of hassle (& time), and as I put it, "take off and nuke the entire reputation system from orbit".

We new this could unfortunately annoy the people who enjoy the reputation system, and/or use it as it was designed. To those people we are sorry, but it was deemed to simplify the site, save alot of time effort, and more importantly agrivation.

[MinionZombie]

Like I said in the shoutbox, the decision wasn't taken lightly ... there were several people who missed the vote who were annoyed as they would have voted against. I personally wanted to change my opinion to get rid of it after all the boring, childish wank kicked up - quite frankly it's not worth dealing with, so getting rid of such agro allows us to get on with other things and put more time and effort into the whole of the forum rather than dealing time and again with gripes about one aspect.

There were also several members who expressed discontent with the system and wanted their personal reps "turned off". The rep system was never set in stone and was, in a sense, "on trial". Now we are back to the classic HPOTD style of reputation - word of mouth.

When you know who is who and what their standing is already, what's the need for some green squares and a number?

Finally, to all concerned, this decision was not made on one member's opinion, this was an admin/moderator collective decision after weighing it up on both sides.

And quite frankly, as the forum is run by dedicated folks who don't get paid and get whined at when decisions are made half the time, then why bother dealing with a feature that ends up being abused and causes a bunch of hassle?

[Danny]

yeah ,what mz said, it was all mutch to "zombie nation" anyway.

[deadpunk]

i want to clear up right now, forums are not democracies.

sorry to be cruel but if you guys genuinely believe that, your gonna get knocked back again and again and thats not just here its on any forums.

We might ask your opinion sometimes, Neil might ask my opinion or the moderators.. but whatever is said, however many vote for this or that, the webmasters decision is always final.

sorry guys but its the way the internet works.

If you TRULY believe that, you've missed the boat.

A forum should be run like a business. While the admin/webmaster/mods/whatever may dictate within terms and reason the services that they will or will not offer, ultimately the needs of the members/customers need to be met.

You can tout the ole "We don't care if you come here or not", but that's bunk and we all know it. If you really didn't care, then you wouldn't provide an online community in the first place.

Upon the "MAJORITY" win... that vote was damn near clean down the middle. And, I think perhaps that fact surprised alot of people. Yes, there were only a handful of folks that regularly expressed their opinions on the REP SYSTEM (or whined about, if you insist). What does that mean? It means there were alot of folks that were either: afraid to express their own opinions becuase of admin retribution OR felt their opinions would be disregarded by the admin team. Unless you are running a private, by invite-only community, EITHER of those concepts should cause a decent admin/mod to take a step back and consider.

There are alot of references made to the old forum here. But, if I had to pick the thing I missed the most about that place it would be this: When Neil was the ONLY administrator, you never had to be afraid to express your opinion on any matter. No matter what you felt or said he never accussed you of 'whining'. He might not agree or give you what you asked for, but he listened to everyone without atttacking them for expressing their opinion. This is something you could learn from Andy, IMHO.

While you can't make everyone happy all of the time, you should be serious in your attempts to give the members of your online community your attention. Just because they do not always see eye-to-eye with you, does not mean you need to degrade or attack them or warn them.

There are many places on the internet where the forums are run like democracies. Of course, those places generally degrade into flame wars and etc. Yet, there is a middle ground here. There always is. We had it on LOOM, you have simply made no attempt to provide it here.

The admin of a forum I joined in my abscence here has an expression that you should hear. "Folks, I'm not the dictator here, I'm the friggin' janitor!"

Of course, these are just my opinions. You'll be infuriated with me for giving them, naturally. And again; that's the majority of your problem.

[p2501]

Andy/Neil thanks for killing it.

It still amuses me that after how many reincaranations of this forum (i think we're on #4 now?) people still piss and wail about the most inaine stuff. and after my 6-ish years here, none of their responses have ever changed.

"OMG you being a dick-tatter"

"but yourse heere to serve us"

or the ever go to "but this is a democracy"

it' all so sadly juvenile.

[Dommm]

Well I have to say this seems to be another reason for mudslinging. I for one voted against the rep system as i feel its a whos more popular thang that takes me back to secondary education (god how I hated those days), also it was a way people could flame each other pointlessly, this is merely a discussion forum about the worlds that Romero has created, all things inspired by this world and a few off beat topics. Just cause somone can not handle the argument against them abd decides to give a bad rep point i think is rather childesh. I can see how this system could have worked but it didnt. To be honest though I wouldnt have been that greatly bothered if it stayed or went, never been a popularity seeker, or that botherd what people think of me. Oh by the by, Neil and the rest of you guys I generally think you do a great job and I for one am glad for all the work you guys have put in on this forum. :gossip:

[Andy]

Upon the "MAJORITY" win... that vote was damn near clean down the middle. And, I think perhaps that fact surprised alot of people. Yes, there were only a handful of folks that regularly expressed their opinions on the REP SYSTEM (or whined about, if you insist). What does that mean? It means there were alot of folks that were either: afraid to express their own opinions becuase of admin retribution OR felt their opinions would be disregarded by the admin team. Unless you are running a private, by invite-only community, EITHER of those concepts should cause a decent admin/mod to take a step back and consider.

While you can't make everyone happy all of the time, you should be serious in your attempts to give the members of your online community your attention. Just because they do not always see eye-to-eye with you, does not mean you need to degrade or attack them or warn them.

Of course, these are just my opinions. You'll be infuriated with me for giving them, naturally. And again; that's the majority of your problem.

nope im not infuriated with anything, although i dont really see what your accusing me of as ive never come down on someone for expressing an opinion. you do it often enough and yet here you are, no warnings.. not banned, and besides which, whenever have i not been open to opinions? every single announcement or new feature i add, every single one, do i not end it with "your questions and comments are welcome"? and do i not always answer said questions and comments? and when have i ever, and i mean ever, i challenge you to find one instance, when have i ever warned, banned or even got mad at someone for asking me questions or stating an opinion?

i personally prefer people to question me and my methods and comment on what im doing, gives me chance to explain things and reinforce exactly what im doing. and i always encourage it AND i always listen and respond to it.

you have no idea the ammount of work i put into this community and the ammount of time i spend paying attention to members so dont even start that.


A forum should be run like a business. While the admin/webmaster/mods/whatever may dictate within terms and reason the services that they will or will not offer, ultimately the needs of the members/customers need to be met.

You can tout the ole "We don't care if you come here or not", but that's bunk and we all know it. If you really didn't care, then you wouldn't provide an online community in the first place.

obviously we care about having members, but not to the point where we're going to use systems we dont want, which cause trouble and drama and as good as 50% of the forum population dont want anyway!


There are many places on the internet where the forums are run like democracies. Of course, those places generally degrade into flame wars and etc. Yet, there is a middle ground here. There always is. We had it on LOOM, you have simply made no attempt to provide it here.

The admin of a forum I joined in my abscence here has an expression that you should hear. "Folks, I'm not the dictator here, I'm the friggin' janitor!"

its been said before and im saying it again, one of the biggest things thats changed between this forum and loom is there is more authority around.. instead of just neil and cereval who were not online much, there is now 7 of us and as such, members like you dont have the law in your own hands anymore.

i think its that fact that you miss most of all IMHO. is that why you resent me so much deadpunk?

im talking about the way a forum is structured and coded. the webmaster of each particullar forum can tell you whatever he likes, im just being honest. and it is structured like a dictatorship. no matter what the webmaster tells you, how many opinions they listen to or how many polls they hold, they are the boss. now im not saying me, im saying neil here. for example, ive had idea's for features and add-ons and such which neil dosnt like or agree with. so we dont have them. im not pissed off becuase i know this is his place. thats what im trying to get across here, this is neils place and he makes up the rules and makes all the decisions, and if you dont like it, you can ask him to change it or you can leave. but you cant make him. thats where this is not a democracy and thats where no forum is a democracy.

[deadpunk]

Actually, I don't resent you...I just don't ****ing like you.

Have a day!

[Bunker65]

I didn't have a problem with the rep system & in fact voted to keep it. That being said, if removing the rep system makes the admin's & mod's jobs easier then it's a no-brainer to me that it be removed. It is because of them & their hard work that we are all able to visit our little "community" here & interact with other like-minded members.

While I'm not one of the more prolific of posters here & while I can't speak for everyone, I feel that alot of us truely appreciate Neil, Andy, Minion, axlish, jscott & Kaos (I think that's everyone) in their efforts to make this the place we visit most often & a place where we feel comfortable to express our opions on any number of subjects.

So again, if removing the rep system makes it easier on the "Power's That Be", I'm behind it 100%. :cool:

[Andy]

Actually, I don't resent you...I just don't ****ing like you.

Have a day!
you've made that clear several times. im not too fond of you, but i do my job properly and i dont like be accused otherwise.

[CivilDefense]

G*D DAMMIT!..




What was the rep system anyway?

[Maitreya]

That little number below the post count that said, "Rep power" as well as that green bar.. Was it below the name? I can't recall.

[kortick]

this is all nonsense

people will never be pleased
accept that

and andy
i think you are doing a good job
a thankless one for sure

but you need to be careful

if you tell people
that it doesnt matter
if they like things or not
and they can go somewhere else if
they dont like it
it is my personal experience
that they WILL leave and not come back
look how many hard core members are gone already

after all that neil has done for this site
do you want to be known as the one
who ruined the homepage of the dead?

again dont misunderstand me
i have no problems with you
or the decisons you have made
and i know its a lot of work
and your dedication is noted and i truely am impressed
just be careful about telling people
they can go if they dont like it
because they will...

[CivilDefense]

That little number below the post count that said, "Rep power" as well as that green bar.. Was it below the name? I can't recall.

So you couldnt save them up to change peoples avatar, ban them or get a free 8 piece multi-tool set with flashlight?

[p2501]

sadly no.

[Maitreya]

If you could do that I'd probably be rallying against this decision with a passion

[Tricky]

Quit yo jibba jabba & post interesting or funny stuff fools!

[Arcades057]

Dude, if you could save them up and do something with them, I'd have tried to vote many, many times for yes! :D

[LouCipherr]

Well, I was gonna stay outta this, but my big mouth won't allow me. :D

I dunno about you peoples, but when I come to a forum or a message board, the first thing I do is read the rules or the FAQ. If I can abide by them, then I join. If I think the rules are foolish, I just move along.

The job of moderators is not an easy one. You know the saying: "you can please some of the people all the time, all of the people some of the time, but never all the people all the time" - this is what mods are up against. No matter what they do, someone is going to get pissed off about their decisions - it's inevitable and they damn well know it. What Neil, Andy, and the rest of the mods do here is one hell of a difficult job regardless of what some may think (these forums don't run themselves, there's LOTS of maintenance to be done to keep them up and running), but they don't keep this forum up for themselves - that's a foolish thing to think. This forum in particular was created to let Romero and zombie fans come together and discuss these topics and sometimes some other 'off' topics, but the theme and the idea of the forum and web page is clear. If Neil, Andy and the rest of the mods wanted to just make a forum so they could play "god" then it would be painfully obvious. I don't see that anywhere around here at all. As a matter of fact I see people given chances over and over again, and hell, take a look above - someone just told Andy they don't ****ing like him. Now, instead of saying "fine, then you don't need to be here" and banning them, he just shrugs it off and essentially says "well, I don't care for you either, but whatever" - that, to me, is the sign of a good mod. They accept the fact that many people will/can get pissed, and a bad moderator would've banned the person above for making such a comment. That wasn't done. Plus, he does ask for input - just as all the other mods do - when the make a change to the forums, so everyone has a chance to voice their opinions, however...

Regardless of any of our comments and suggestions, the forum is here for them to run as they see fit - some may like that, some may not. I see no abuse of power by mods here, and as a matter of fact, this has been a pretty level-headed and laid back forum until this whole rep system sh*t exploded into a fiasco. Remember, i've only been here around a year or so past occurrances I may be oblivious too, but I can get a good feel for how mods work and their limits after just a few weeks on a forum.

I was against the rep system myself, seeing it more as a popularity contest and something that could be easily abused, but at the same time when the poll tilted in favor of keeping it, you didn't hear me bitching. It ain't my place. I voiced my opinion, the mods i'm sure read it and took it into consideration and did what they felt was right.

I love this forum. I'm sorry I didn't find it earlier than I did. The thing that I think is forgotten most of the time when these kinds of issues come up is that we need to remember that the decisions made by the mods here are only made in the best interest in the community - as I said, it would be painfully obvious if this wasn't the case. The decision was made to keep the rep system by the poll, a small select few felt since that was the case they would abuse the system (I'm naming no names because other than one person, I don't know for sure anyone else was involved, and I make no assumptions) - because of that, the mods realized that even though popular vote says "keep it!", in the best interest in everyone here, they decided that it may not be a good idea, so it was removed. I'm sure this decision wasn't made easily, and they knew the wave of repercussions that would result, but again, it was in the best interest of everyone.

The idea that if you tell people "if you don't like it, leave" and they will, shouldn't really be that much of a concern. There's lots more people where they came from on the net. I hate to see users leave because of something petty, but people are people, and they're gonna do what they're gonna do.

Being a mod is an ugly job sometimes. I wouldn't want to do it, 'cause I know I wouldn't put up with a lot of the BS that mods do on forums - and on that note, I commend Neil, Andy, and all the other forum mods on the job they do here. As much as I rallied against the rep system, not one of them told me I was out of line - even though I did rant quite about about it and my feelings 'twards the system. That's how it should be done.

Now it's time to zip my lips and pray this thread dies a miserable, horrible death. :lol: :D

LC

[HLS]

Well, I was gonna stay outta this, but my big mouth won't allow me. :D

I dunno about you peoples, but when I come to a forum or a message board, the first thing I do is read the rules or the FAQ. If I can abide by them, then I join. If I think the rules are foolish, I just move along.

The job of moderators is not an easy one. You know the saying: "you can please some of the people all the time, all of the people some of the time, but never all the people all the time" - this is what mods are up against. No matter what they do, someone is going to get pissed off about their decisions - it's inevitable and they damn well know it. What Neil, Andy, and the rest of the mods do here is one hell of a difficult job regardless of what some may think (these forums don't run themselves, there's LOTS of maintenance to be done to keep them up and running), but they don't keep this forum up for themselves - that's a foolish thing to think. This forum in particular was created to let Romero and zombie fans come together and discuss these topics and sometimes some other 'off' topics, but the theme and the idea of the forum and web page is clear. If Neil, Andy and the rest of the mods wanted to just make a forum so they could play "god" then it would be painfully obvious. I don't see that anywhere around here at all. As a matter of fact I see people given chances over and over again, and hell, take a look above - someone just told Andy they don't ****ing like him. Now, instead of saying "fine, then you don't need to be here" and banning them, he just shrugs it off and essentially says "well, I don't care for you either, but whatever" - that, to me, is the sign of a good mod. They accept the fact that many people will/can get pissed, and a bad moderator would've banned the person above for making such a comment. That wasn't done. Plus, he does ask for input - just as all the other mods do - when the make a change to the forums, so everyone has a chance to voice their opinions, however...

Regardless of any of our comments and suggestions, the forum is here for them to run as they see fit - some may like that, some may not. I see no abuse of power by mods here, and as a matter of fact, this has been a pretty level-headed and laid back forum until this whole rep system sh*t exploded into a fiasco. Remember, i've only been here around a year or so past occurrances I may be oblivious too, but I can get a good feel for how mods work and their limits after just a few weeks on a forum.

I was against the rep system myself, seeing it more as a popularity contest and something that could be easily abused, but at the same time when the poll tilted in favor of keeping it, you didn't hear me bitching. It ain't my place. I voiced my opinion, the mods i'm sure read it and took it into consideration and did what they felt was right.

I love this forum. I'm sorry I didn't find it earlier than I did. The thing that I think is forgotten most of the time when these kinds of issues come up is that we need to remember that the decisions made by the mods here are only made in the best interest in the community - as I said, it would be painfully obvious if this wasn't the case. The decision was made to keep the rep system by the poll, a small select few felt since that was the case they would abuse the system (I'm naming no names because other than one person, I don't know for sure anyone else was involved, and I make no assumptions) - because of that, the mods realized that even though popular vote says "keep it!", in the best interest in everyone here, they decided that it may not be a good idea, so it was removed. I'm sure this decision wasn't made easily, and they knew the wave of repercussions that would result, but again, it was in the best interest of everyone.

The idea that if you tell people "if you don't like it, leave" and they will, shouldn't really be that much of a concern. There's lots more people where they came from on the net. I hate to see users leave because of something petty, but people are people, and they're gonna do what they're gonna do.

Being a mod is an ugly job sometimes. I wouldn't want to do it, 'cause I know I wouldn't put up with a lot of the BS that mods do on forums - and on that note, I commend Neil, Andy, and all the other forum mods on the job they do here. As much as I rallied against the rep system, not one of them told me I was out of line - even though I did rant quite about about it and my feelings 'twards the system. That's how it should be done.

Now it's time to zip my lips and pray this thread dies a miserable, horrible death. :lol: :D

LC


Well I agree, it is hard to run a forum. I had one once for about 2 or 3 years and it was such a hassle I shut it down. Too much drama:eek:

By all means they have the right to do what ever they want with the forum. I really do not care that much one way or the other but I feel that once a decision is made it is only fair to stick with it. I mean they had a whole voting thing done and based on the vote they decided to keep the rep system then its taken down anyways. It kinda defeats the purpose of running a vote and asking our opinions to begin with. But I am cool with the whole decision, I was just suprised by it.

[MinionZombie]

Well I think I speak for all the guys who run this place Lou, when I say thank you very much indeed.

Being an admin or being a mod isn't a simple task. You're not paid for it, you get sh*t flung your way for acting on the interests of the entire forum, as for anyone who might think we have a "god complex", like Lou said, that's crap ... because, quite frankly, you don't have the time to have a god complex because you're too busy dealing with silly little FAQ/TOS infractions that could have been avoided if everyone actually read the FAQ/TOS before signing up - therefore knowing what the state of play on HPOTD is.

As for the poll, it was closed on one vote. Now, I didn't change my vote - but I wanted to - I originally voted in favour - then the whole stupid crap started up and it was the straw that broke the perverbial camel's back and my opinion changed - so in fact, although I didn't go into the workings and change my vote over (because I figured it could cause a bunch of cryin' and bitchin'), it would have been one vote in favour of getting shot of it.

I'll also repeat that after the poll closed we had contact from several members who expressed their dislike of the system and would have voted as such had the poll still been open. Again, there were also several members who had gotten fed up with the whole system and wanted their rep "turned off".

Decisions aren't made flippantly, or for pleasure, and I can at least speak for myself (and I'm sure the rest of the mods) when I say I didn't take the decision lightly to become a mod.

But you know what, I thought - I've been coming to HPOTD since 1998, it's about time I did something for the community I enjoy coming to - and so I did. Hell, my first bit of moderation involved one of my good friends on here, did I enjoy it? Er - no.

I'll say this, but I'm sure plenty will scoff and say it's easy, but keeping a forum up and running takes a lot of attention - we need so many mods to cover each 24 hour period with enough people from both America and the UK. Again, we ain't paid for this, we do it for the love of the community and for HPOTD itself.

"God complex" as much as you will (whoever "you" is), but it just ain't true, there's no conspiracy, what's happening is a bunch of people who are supporters of this community, many of us being here from very early on, are keeping the place up and running - that's it.

And to think of the bollocks Neil has put up with over the years, and yet he hasn't quit, now that's impressive - and a clear example of the distinct lack of "god complex" here at HPOTD.

[Debbieangel]

I want to thank Neil in the fairness he paid in the recent situation. Sorry for causing any probs! I am moving forward so,I will not speak any further of what happened.
I know Neil, Andy and the "Mods" work their tail off keeping these forums up for us to be here. It's alot of work and if you have never been in charge of people try it you wont like it! You have alot of people crying and whining in your ears..saying things should be done this way or that way! All the time you are trying to keep the majority happy..its like walking ona thin string and the string is gonna break at any moment!
So, what I really want to say is the "rep" system is gone now can we get back to what we all really love is GAR horror movies and being friends thats what I came here for in the first place?
NEIL, ANDY, MODS PLEASE KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!!

[mista_mo]

A simple fact....forums aren't democracies...what is even the point of arguing what kind of government system a forum should be or is, it's mute. what the Admin says goes. Deal with it, and if you can't, leave. Geez, It's amazing what people will do nowadays.

I liked the rep system, the main reason I liked it was that it gave you feedback on posts (for that reason I think it should be implemented in a writing type forum, I mean alot of the stuff I wrote and posted here got pretty good reps. In that case it works fine). It's no big loss if the rep system is gone, again, I liked it, but it's gone now, deal with it, it's not important.

My GOODNESS :confused:

[CivilDefense]

I already have a reputation as the wierd guy who reads zombie forums at work.


My wife already told me I am not allowed to make fake bloody (red paint) handprints on my little igloo organ donation cooler/lunchbox..

[Adrenochrome]

.... fake bloody (red paint) handprints on my little igloo organ donation cooler/lunchbox..

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I love it!!!!