I say we arm our teachers now.

[Tied2thetracks]

Close to home for me.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,215145,00.html


http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/29/wisc.shooting.ap/index.html



We need guns in every classroom. I don't know what has happened to kids since 97 when I graduated , but apparently they are F_cked up.

Is it video games? Russian attack never had ill efects on me. The net and bomb/nepalm making reciepies...something we need to look at.

This crap needs to stop, charge parents of killer kids? Maybe sometimes.
Have weaponed trained workers at schools, all the time. Its damn disgusting that its come to this but it is what it is.

I'd bet any money that before the year is out we see somthing that beats Columbine.

[EvilNed]

So you're saying that instead of taking away guns, we should put more guns into the circle?

[Adrenochrome]

arming the teachers is not the answer.
I don't know what the answer is, but it's not that.
All it would do is "dare the weaponed kids" to make the first draw.





communication. not guns

[Marie]

So you're saying that instead of taking away guns, we should put more guns into the circle?

I think it would only work IF the teachers would visit the gun range regularly and train... and I don't see public school teachers as willing to do that. The only other alternitive that fits the bill is hiring armed security for every classroom, and somehow most of the security guards I've seen don't inspire confidance either.

I don't think it's guns that are the problem, I think it's the lack of morals in the schools. I'm not talking about praying or anything, I'm talking about teaching kids that there is a right way and a wrong way to deal with life, and shooting people out of hand is the wrong way. The question is, can we DO that without offending people? :D

M_

[EvilNed]

Alot of kids/people admit that they shoot people not because of outside influences, but because of the availability of guns. Someone should probably look into that, rather than providing a temporary solution.

[MinionZombie]

Indeed - communication. Because those Columbine kids were the rejects of school society, beaten up and bullied by some, ignored by everyone else and clearly frustrated with their home lives (at least one was a rocky home life if memory serves).

Also, easy access to guns. Parent's that don't lock away their guns properly, or teach their kids about respect for weapons, or spend any time with their kids at all, or parents that beat up their kids or walk out on them and their mother...

Putting guns into teachers hands won't help one bit. Perhaps train them with conflict resolution techniques, escape and evade techniques and basic hand-to-hand combat ... it's sad that we're actually here talking about defending teachers against children isn't it? But like here in the UK, teachers have no power to uphold the schoolyard law because sh*tty little bastards know full well they can't touch them.

Just the sort of bollocks that comes from a Labour gubment being in control quite frankly...but at least for us in the UK, we don't have guns, so we don't have kids going to school armed to the teeth ... mind you, that doesn't stop the odd attack - a girl was slashed in the face with a pair of scissors a while ago for instance (although, if memory serves, the victim had actually been victimising the attacker prior to the attack :rockbrow:).

More power to teachers to restrain kids with reasonable force. More communication - get the kids involved in active discussion, find out what they're feeling and deal with them on their level. Give them classes they'd actually want to go to, don't handle them with mittens, handle them with fair respect and fair justice. It's not exactly hard to come up with the solution to a problem that should have never happened, but the solution is halted by wankers like the Labour gubment and the ultra-liberal cry babies like Cherie Blair who defend ridiculous new laws to protect little bastard children...

[slickwilly13]

I remember my dad telling me back in the day most of his classmates brought guns to school. And there was never any problems. If anyone had an issue with one another they duked it out then it was over. Those Columbine punks were too chickensh!t to stand up for themselves. They were bullied because they allowed themselves to be victims. People now days are to quick to pull out a gun, because they are afraid of getting their asses kicked. No one has the balls to fight anymore it seems.

[Adrenochrome]

I remember my dad telling me back in the day most of his classmates brought guns to school. And there was never any problems. If anyone had an issue with one another they duked it out then it was over. Those Columbine punks were too chickensh!t to stand up for themselves. They were bullied because they allowed themselves to be victims. People now days are to quick to pull out a gun, because they are afraid of getting their asses kicked. No one has the balls to fight anymore it seems.

you're right....gone are the days when we would beat the snot out of each other, then share a beer and a game of pool. Igot into my share of fights back in the day and we never wanted to kill each other.

[MinionZombie]

Indeed, kids need to be taught that it's alright to stand up for yourself.

Now, back in high school I was bullied, mostly verbal/mental abuse but there was some physical - the main incident being when I was in Year 8 and this absolute wanker (who was the guy who bullied me for the first 3 years of high school) refused to let me into the Tutor Room (where we were registered in the morning/afternoon - there were several tutor groups for each year), I eventually pushed my way in and he charged at me and pushed me so hard I lost my balance (even though I was leaning forwards), fell back and smashed my head on the floor. Now, this floor had carpet ... but it was about as thick as a sheet of paper, so it was basically head-on-concrete slab. Was out of school for a couple of days with a mild concussion.

And yet, I always told on the bastard(s) - some folk might think "not cool" because it "makes you a sissy", er no it doesn't, it gives the bullies justified grief, detentions and all sorts. It also singles the bully out and makes them feel even more inadequate and isolated from their peers - quite frankly I'd love "eye for an eye" retribution so I could kick the living sh*t out of that complete bastard ... and yet I'm not a violent person and have never been in a fight (as in one-on-one fisticuffs).

Standing up to the bully is the answer, the bullying went on for 3 years, but it wasn't constant, there were highs and lows - the lead up and come down from isolated incidents, a lot of the time I managed to avoid confrontation or potentially risky situations. But yep, standing up is the answer. I was a very shy kind of person back then, I'm still somewhat shy, a fairly quiet kinda guy - reserved, that's the word - but much better than back then.

If I was like me now, but back then, I'd have tackled the bastard to the ground and smashed his head into the ground ... at least I'd like to think so, but probably just get in a ruckus and punch the twat several times and show I'm not at all scared...back then I was, but stood up to him anyway and was supported by my parents and by the teachers and head-of-year.

Stand up, let people know what's happening and know that high school isn't the be-all and end-all of everything, once it's over there's your whole life to live...and the bullies often end up living crap and dull lives.

Case-in-point, the main bully - last time I heard anything about him - was working in a shop that sells teenage girl's clothes. Oh man did I laugh, what a f*cking loser (I'm not debunking the job itself, but the fact that this supposed hard man is working in such a joint makes me laugh). One of his followers now installs toilets ...

As for myself and the other people like me who were bullied by him and his gang - we not only did Sixth Form education, we all went off to University and got degrees. My mate Knox (who played Zombie Man in IAZM) is now an Engineer for some big company after studying damn hard for 4 years, others are off doing their thing - one is in Switzerland (Ben - who was in Trapped) looking to get into the robotics industry and as for me - I'm starting my own videography business and am co-founder of an initiative to create a truly local television station.

Karma is indeed alive and well...

One more thing - he wasn't a bully, but one of those sporty and sad Al Bundy-ish types who were "kings" of high school (yet was ironically not liked by his own "friends") was, last time I saw him, looking rather haggard with a beer gut in some old pub on his own...

[p2501]

Is it video games? Russian attack never had ill efects on me. The net and bomb/nepalm making reciepies...something we need to look at.

This crap needs to stop, charge parents of killer kids? Maybe sometimes.
Have weaponed trained workers at schools, all the time. Its damn disgusting that its come to this but it is what it is.

I'd bet any money that before the year is out we see somthing that beats Columbine.


way to be reactionary..... again.

comments like your post thread are exactly why you as a person should not be allow access to firearms. you see them as a be all solution to the problem. when in reality simply issuing anyone a gun is the absolute worse thing to do.

These things are a smashup of any number of social factorances. strapping up a teacher with a glock and some Blackhawk industries turnout gear is not and will not be a solution.

A solution is people actually parenting these children, society culling child predators, and adults securing thier ****ing weapons.

as for this sepcific case. i'll wait to see what the full background on the perp is, but i'm willing to bet it's the standard of "previous history of mental problems, and early release on parole".

and for the record, for the "guns are the problem" crowd. i wwent to high school where kids arrived at school with shotguns and long guns "hot and safe" in the back of their cars/trucks during hunting season. in the 50+ years my high school has been in operation there hasn't been a singe incident with a firearm on it's grounds. let alone a fatality.

[slickwilly13]

I'm glad to read that I'm not the only who believes in standing up for one's self. Bullies are usually cowards who prey on people who they believe are weaker than them. Easier targets, usually believe they won't fight back, therefore less hassle. These people are for the most part insecure about something and picking weaker victims make them feel better about themselves. Funny thing is when these assholes come down to the boxing gym they are quickly exposed and never show their faces back there again.

[Tied2thetracks]

I own a firearm and have never thought about using it. I think its to the point that we need armed security/liason officers in our schools. Parenting would be great, you cant enforce it though. People don't care about there kids and you can't make a law to make them give a damn. You need to have someone there to shut the problem down if it arises. The poor picked on gun nuts might have second thoughts if they know they would have an armed response on site.

I suppose we could just send home some parenting manuels, that would be just as effective.

[slickwilly13]

We have school police that my high school. I guess some high schools don't.

[Tied2thetracks]

I'm glad to read that I'm not the only who believes in standing up for one's self. Bullies are usually cowards who prey on people who they believe are weaker than them. Easier targets, usually believe they won't fight back, therefore less hassle. These people are for the most part insecure about something and picking weaker victims make them feel better about themselves. Funny thing is when these assholes come down to the boxing gym they are quickly exposed and never show their faces back there again.
These victims of bullies are the cowards. Bulling has been around ever since schools have, just in teh last decade has guns been brought to the equation.
I hope you don't think ambushing an unarmed kid by shooting them is standing up for yourself.

[slickwilly13]

Huh? I never mentioned anything about ambushing a bully then gunning them down. I'm talking about kicking someone's ass. Yes, people who allow themselves to be victimized are cowards like those who are bullying. Rarely see a bully mess with someone who they feel could take them in a fight.

[MinionZombie]

Hmmm ... I'd personally label a bully a "coward" and their victim "scared", but that's my tuppence worth.

[Tied2thetracks]

Whats the problem of putting weapons in the hands of trained security at schools. I'm not saying arm students. All the recent crap that has happened makes me a firm believer that there should be an amed person at every school grades 6-12.

[EvilNed]

Because guns hurt people. They're not a defensive tool, they are an offensive tool. Arming teachers or providing security guards for school only makes it a less pleasant enviroment to study in, and doesn't solve any problems whatsoever. It only adds to them.

[Tied2thetracks]

Alot of kids/people admit that they shoot people not because of outside influences, but because of the availability of guns. Someone should probably look into that, rather than providing a temporary solution.

So we should take guns away from responsible citizens? You want to go the only criminals should have guns route I see. WI is hunting grounds,98% are responsible gun owners.( I base that statistic on nothing really) We dont have alot of gun violence.

"Because guns hurt people. They're not a defensive tool, they are an offensive tool. Arming teachers or providing security guards for school only makes it a less pleasant enviroment to study in, and doesn't solve any problems whatsoever. It only adds to them."

Guns in the PROPER hands are a defensive tool. Would you feel safer if the police didn't carry weapons? If you lived in colorado would you think armed security would make you feel less safe? If you lived in Green Bay WI where kids were making nepalm would armed security make you feel less safe?

The safer I am the happier I am. More than likely these troubled kids know their plot won't suceed the more likely they will be not to try it.

[EvilNed]

All that is well and good, but how can you explain the fact that every single nation that has a gun ban manages to it A) keep it under control and B) Have a homocide rate by gun reduced to a minimum?

Guns are a problem. Your suggestion would be one huge leap in the wrong freaking direction. Guns at a school? That's seriously one of the most ****ed up things I've ever heard.

[FoodFight]

Presently in the U.S. there is a 1000 foot boundary surrounding all schools wherein guns are prohibited. Obviously criminals aren't abiding by said federal law, and in the incident in Pearl, MS some years ago, neither did the principal. He ran to his vehicle which was off of school property, retrieved and loaded his weapon, ran back to the school and detained the shooter for over four minutes before the authorites (i.e. those who are allowed to carry firearms on campus) could respond. How many lives did the principal save? Who knows. Criminals will always seek soft targets, and in an area that is federally mandated to be defenseless, criminals will always be in evidence.

[Tied2thetracks]

All that is well and good, but how can you explain the fact that every single nation that has a gun ban manages to it A) keep it under control and B) Have a homocide rate by gun reduced to a minimum?

Guns are a problem. Your suggestion would be one huge leap in the wrong freaking direction. Guns at a school? That's seriously one of the most ****ed up things I've ever heard.

...but guns aren't going away. This country will not and should not give up its gun rights. If we have a liason officer (cop assigned to a school) that would be a mistake? It would be a deterant, it would be an immediate response to an attack. Your heart is in the right place, not sure about your head though.;)

[EvilNed]

...but guns aren't going away. This country will not and should not give up its gun rights.

Then you're ****ed to begin with.

[MinionZombie]

Indeed, with America so "big" on guns, you can't solve the problem anymore by a ban, at best some stringent control ... but put simply, (and this is speaking in general - I'm fed up of having to clarify things), guns kill people and it's shown quite plain and simple in statistics.

America and their guns have a climate of fear peddled to them daily, while no-gun nations like Canada don't peddle fear on a daily basis...now the UK is somewhere in between. All our news is bad news, but we don't have guns. There are plenty of guns in the country (illegally), but you'll only find these in the urban crime centers where gang violence is on the rise through, among other things, social disaffection.

Would I feel safer carrying a gun? Erm, no. You can't outrun a bullet, but you can outrun a knife or a bat and you can duck a punch. You'd be more likely to survive the average sh*t-beating than the average drive-by.

I can understand why people like guns and own them, they like to hunt and practice target shooting ... and of course, it makes you feel powerful ... but it's a freedom that comes with a very costly price. I'm glad the UK doesn't have guns in the general populace ... only the police have them (merely some of the time though) and serious criminals who have gotten them via the underground - but you can get everything via the underground, so there's no shocking statistic there.

All this "no guns in the UK" thing just makes me marvel even more at our coppers on the streets who go into battle with thugs armed with a stick and maybe some mace ... that's pretty freakin' hard, eyeball-to-eyeball with the criminal, rather than ten feet back, behind your car door with a gun pulled...

Not really putting myself on either side of the gun debate, but just thought I'd chip in a tuppence worth of thoughts...