Another dawn 78 flub????

[Trancelikestate]

ok, forgive me if this was touched on, but my dad was watching the behind the scenes a couple weeks ago when he pointed out that everytime they fuel the chopper, thier sticking it in a step! my dad was a crew chief in the army for many years and he said thats not where you put the fuel! thats actually one of many steps up the side of the aircraft! the real fuel port is much lower! ha! anyone ever notice this? :confused:

[MinionZombie]

What the hell, choppers have steps on the side? :rockbrow:

Then again I'm not a pilot and I know fudge all about choppers, I always thought it was kinda strange because it seemed like the fuel tube thingy would be rather close behind the seat, almost as if he'd be pouring fuel on the seats if it wasn't for the wall between the rear seats and the engine - looked like there wasn't quite enough spaced for a fuel tube thingy...

Interesting find there trance...kudos. :cool:

[MikePizzoff]

Pretty cool. I always noticed that when they put the nozzle in the "tank" it's always on an angle instead of straight in. Seemed somewhat fishy to me.

[capncnut]

Surely this has to be the ultimate blooper! I'm gonna check this out.

[Trancelikestate]

well my dads always talking about how in movies they constantly screw up the real aspects about aircraft. but yeah lets say you needed to climb up the side, you stick your feet in these steps that have closing doors all the way up the side. anyway, thnx guys. i definatly belive my pops on this one, but i'm sure we'll find out in the end. :skull:

[kortick]

isnt it funny how
we analyse these films to death

it shows how much we love them

we arent looking for things to make fun of
it is just things only real fans can appreciate

cool find

[Slain]

Wasn't the helicopter in Dawn a turbo-jet aircraft that runs on jet fuel? It seems kind of strange the airport they stop to at is low on JP-4 when all the planes in sight are piston aircraft that run on aviation gas.

[MikePizzoff]

Wasn't the helicopter in Dawn a turbo-jet aircraft that runs on jet fuel? It seems kind of strange the airport they stop to at is low on JP-4 when all the planes in sight are piston aircraft that run on aviation gas.

Now that's not really a blooper or "flub".......

[Philly_SWAT]

Now that's not really a blooper or "flub".......

Good point. That is no more a flub than to think about the flightpath they took to begin with. If they left Philly, went thru Harrisburgh, thru Johnstown, and then ended up at that airport, that is basically a straight line from Philly. To then end up at the Mall, they would have had to cut back to the South and East instead of continuing to the North and West the way they had been. Why would they do that? They wouldnt. Then again, we are not suppose to be looking at it so closely to know where that airstrip is, etc.

I did notice the whole fuelport thing, I think from the first time I saw Dawn. I dont know if where Roger puts the line is actually the fuel intake area for a chopper like that, but it definately doesnt look like he is actually fueling anything. I always took it as one of those movie things, like they didnt really need (or want) to put fuel in it, so they just made it look like they did, and never considered that here we would be, almost 30 years later, wondering about that minor detail. I always wondered, wouldnt it be dangerous to fuel the chopper with the engine still running? I mean, they tell us not to fuel our cars with the enging running because static electricity could cause an explosion. Does the same not hold true for air fuel?

[capncnut]

I always wondered, wouldnt it be dangerous to fuel the chopper with the engine still running?

Oh yeah, I never thought of that.

[Trancelikestate]

speaking of which philly where is that airstrip? i was wondering that. and hey are we even supposed to know it's monroville mall? i'm tellin you guys if my pop said its a step, then its a step! :moon: haha, trust that old vet.

[axlish]

isnt it funny how
we analyse these films to death

it shows how much we love them

we arent looking for things to make fun of
it is just things only real fans can appreciate

cool find

I love your posting style, kind of poetic.

[Philly_SWAT]

speaking of which philly where is that airstrip? i was wondering that. and hey are we even supposed to know it's monroville mall? i'm tellin you guys if my pop said its a step, then its a step! :moon: haha, trust that old vet.

The airstrip is just a little bit up the road from the Mall, but North of the mall. You are probably right, we arent "suppose to know" that it is the Monroeville Mall, even though we can see stickers on the doors with the then familiar MM logo.


actually to me, the biggest flub is the timeline...

leave Philly 9pm, took all night to get to the other side of the state, Harrisburg to monroeville was about an hour (where are we? Harrisburg? ...past about an hour ago)

what went on from 9pm until the morning between Philly and H'burg?

I would say that we dont know the exact timeline that they were in the air. Your 9 pm start time is not accurate for starters. Flyboy told Fran to "meet him on the roof" at 9 pm, not that they were going to meet Roger at the dock at 9 pm. So assuming (and we do have to assume, we are not told or shown) that Fran and Flyboy did meet on the roof at WGON at 9 pm, there could have been any number of reasons for a delay of departure time. They could have had a long discussion/argument as to what they were going to do and where to go (which would explain Fran's quote later of "I guess we can forget about Canada"), they may have had to wait a while to leave, seeing as they were in fact stealing a WGON chopper. There may have been security or others hanging around that they wanted to wait until they could make a clean getaway. Now assuming that "WGON" was in downtown Pittsburgh, the docks where they filmed that scene would only be a short flight away. But the scene was set in Philladelphia, so who knows how long it would take to get from WGON to the "Philly" docks? And again, he may have taken the long way to get there, to avoid possible known police locations, other news choppers in the air etc. I guess I just took a long time to say "we dont know that they left at 9 pm".

Also, keep in mind that the story takes place three weeks after daylight savings time ended, therefore sunrise would take place very early. So, they may have left Philly after midnight perhaps, and the sun would rise early. A couple of other thoughts...Flyboy was dozing off, so he may have been straying off course a little bit, and also, as they saw new things of interest, they may have went off course and/or hung around to see what was happening, like when they were near Johnstown and they were watching the rednecks hunt the zombies and blow up the car.

[capncnut]

The airstrip is just a little bit up the road from the Mall, but North of the mall.

So, they may have left Philly after midnight perhaps, and the sun would rise early. A couple of other thoughts...Flyboy was dozing off, so he may have been straying off course a little bit, and also, as they saw new things of interest, they may have went off course and/or hung around to see what was happening, like when they were near Johnstown and they were watching the rednecks hunt the zombies and blow up the car.

I wish I had cool places like these to visit. It's a shame I never liked Shaun 'cos I only live 10 minutes from The Winchester (Duke Of Albany, New Cross, London).

As for the timeline debate. For some reason I have always thought of Fran & Peter's conversation in the chopper being set in the very early morning. If the SWAT were to leave their posts unseen, wouldn't they do it at the end of the shift? Personally, I think the jump from Philly to Jonestown is only a few hours.

[jim102016]

ok, forgive me if this was touched on, but my dad was watching the behind the scenes a couple weeks ago when he pointed out that everytime they fuel the chopper, thier sticking it in a step! my dad was a crew chief in the army for many years and he said thats not where you put the fuel! thats actually one of many steps up the side of the aircraft! the real fuel port is much lower! ha! anyone ever notice this? :confused:

Holy dogsh*t......your dad is good. All those years of watching that movie and I never realized! I spent some time around army aviation too, he's right. If you get a chance, get him to watch Day' and see if he notices anything unusual with the uniforms of the soldiers. (the captain's bars sideways on Rhodes field jacket, the wearing of the wrong head gear, long outdated yellow rank stripes on Steel's sleeves,etc.). Sounds crazy, but I'll bet he notices!

[Minerva_Zombi]

yeah i noticed that one.

[Trancelikestate]

Holy dogsh*t......your dad is good. All those years of watching that movie and I never realized! I spent some time around army aviation too, he's right. If you get a chance, get him to watch Day' and see if he notices anything unusual with the uniforms of the soldiers. (the captain's bars sideways on Rhodes field jacket, the wearing of the wrong head gear, long outdated yellow rank stripes on Steel's sleeves,etc.). Sounds crazy, but I'll bet he notices!

thnx, yeah i've wanted him to watch it, but i dont think it will happen for awhile if ever unfortunatly. haha, but yeah nice find also about the clock thing doom.

[Philly_SWAT]

another flub in regards to the 9pm start...

if you look in the corner of the screen when the helicopter is taking off (when the building lights are going out) you see the clock on the building says 6:00

I never noticed that clock before. This may not be a flub in regards to the timeline, but something that clears it all up. If you think about it, in Western Penn., even if it was the exact day that daylight savings time ended, it wouldnt be pitch black at 6 pm. So it must have been 6 am in the morning, which would make more sense as to other questions about the travel timeline. For whatever reason, our group of 4 did not leave Philly until 6 am, when it was still dark, which is why is it daytime when they make the few hours trip to the mall. The reason that Flyboy is so sleepy is that he was up all night with no sleep, not flying all night like it kinda seems, but up all night prior to leaving the dock in the chopper. Again, all we know for sure is that Flyboy told Fran to meet him on the roof at 9 pm. We dont know even if she did meet him there at that time to begin with. He may have had to "go looking for her". There could have been any number of reasons for a delay to them leaving the station. He may have thought twice about just leaving with him and Fran, and took a while to get a hold of his good buddy Roger, the cop, who would be handy to have around to help fight off the zombies. His girl was pregnant and he obviously had no firearms training, so it would definately be a smart thing to do to wait for Roger rather than leave right away. There may have been a bunch of stuff that happened off screen. So again, I think the 9 pm start time is a faulty idea to begin with. The clock may just be the clue which makes the whole thing make sense.

[capncnut]

His girl was pregnant and he obviously had no firearms training, so it would definately be a smart thing to do to wait for Roger rather than leave right away.

Francine never told Flyboy about the baby until after the Hari Krishna was killed by Roger. There is no mention of the baby until this scene occurs.

I doubt if he knew beforehand. If he did, then he should be ashamed of the way he pushed her during the airport sequence. "Run!"

[Philly_SWAT]

Francine never told Flyboy about the baby until after the Hari Krishna was killed by Roger. There is no mention of the baby until this scene occurs.

I doubt if he knew beforehand. If he did, then he should be ashamed of the way he pushed her during the airport sequence. "Run!"
This is a very interesting post by you. You are correct that there is no mention of the baby until after the Hari Krishna scene, but if you recall, it is mentioned by Flyboy, not Fran. Peter says she looks sick, Roger ways what do you expect, and Peter says she really looks blown, physically. To which Flyboy says "She's pregnant". Obviously he knew about it beforehand. Then Roger says something like "Jesus, how far along", to which Flyboy says "3 1/2, 4 months". He does not say it with shock like he just found out himself, but matter of factly, like he knew all along. How could he not know if Fran was his girlfriend? Why would she keep it secret prior to the zombie outbreak?

Also, as far as pushing her during the airport sequence, what would have been a better course of action, let her get eaten by a zombie?

[capncnut]

You are correct that there is no mention of the baby until after the Hari Krishna scene, but if you recall, it is mentioned by Flyboy, not Fran. Peter says she looks sick, Roger ways what do you expect, and Peter says she really looks blown, physically. To which Flyboy says "She's pregnant". Obviously he knew about it beforehand. How could he not know if Fran was his girlfriend? Why would she keep it secret prior to the zombie outbreak?

For some reason I always envision Fran telling Flyboy about the baby (in one of our 'imaginary' off-camera scenes) after the Krisha bashing bonanza because of the situation being the first time she was truly in peril without her man. I agree I could be wrong, after all Flyboy does ramble about "all kinds of things... we really got it made here..." (possibly meaning baby food, diapers etc) but I think his voice-over on the shot of Fran's catatonic face "Frannie?" makes me think otherwise. I think its highly plausible that Fran would keep her pregnancy secret due to the impracticalities of having a child in all this madness, also her character had a failed marriage at a young age in the novelisation which I think is another good take on it. Again (off-camera theory) Flyboy could've had a couple of hours to mull it over, have a few of shots o' Jack and build up the courage to tell the other guys - he is actually looking down at the floor/wall when he does finally speak up (embarrassment?). "Do you want to abort it?" The look on Flyboy's face is a giveaway, it is clearly obvious that this is something he hasn't thought about before, surely he would've had time to mull that one over. So many theories, my friend...

[DEAD BEAT]

they could have stuck it up their keister for all know about helicopters,but thanks i'll examine it next time i watch it!:clown:

[MaximusIncredulous]

ok, forgive me if this was touched on, but my dad was watching the behind the scenes a couple weeks ago when he pointed out that everytime they fuel the chopper, thier sticking it in a step! my dad was a crew chief in the army for many years and he said thats not where you put the fuel! thats actually one of many steps up the side of the aircraft! the real fuel port is much lower! ha! anyone ever notice this? :confused:

All these years and I've never noticed this. According to the specs for the Ranger III, the filler cap is on the right side of the chopper. Don't know if it changed from the Ranger II that was used in the film.

http://www.storage4all.com/uploads/aebf43d3a7.jpg

If you want more info on the Jetranger, you can download the Product Data Book from Bell Helicopter (48 MB):

http://www.bellhelicopter.com/en/aircraft/commercial/pdf/206B3_PDB_low.pdf


EDIT: It's the same:
http://www.storage4all.com/uploads/ed3be5b1f7.jpg

[DEAD BEAT]

does anybody have a clue why they would do this?:confused:

[MaximusIncredulous]

does anybody have a clue why they would do this?:confused:

Maybe for safety reasons. The rotating blades produce static electricity and they didn't want to take any chances. Perhaps Romero felt the step door looked more like a car filler cap door making it more familiar for the auidence.

[Philly_SWAT]

I think its highly plausible that Fran would keep her pregnancy secret due to the impracticalities of having a child in all this madnessIf she was 3 1/2, 4 months pregnant, and the zombie outbreak was about three weeks old, she have have to either be able to see into the future to not tell Flyboy about the pregnancy after the first missed period, or was raised in the same manner as "Carrie", and did not understand menstral cycles.

The above sentence was supposed to be funny, but in all seriousness, during the events in dawn, the outbreak is only three weeks in, and there would be no thinking about the impracticalities you mention for someone who was prenant a few months prior.

[MinionZombie]

As well as which way they came in to land at the dock, the way they came in the real filler cap would put Roger behind the chopper away from camera to be nearby when sh*t starts going down at the police dock office.

[Philly_SWAT]

I have a question.....the "chopper zombie" shows us in graphic detail what happens if you get your head too close to the blades. With that in mind, why would there be steps up the side of the chopper? To aid in potential suicide? I mean, the only thing that would make sense is for maintenance, but surely if you were back in the hanger, you would use a platform to work on the blade area, not climb the side and try to balance there as you work.

[MinionZombie]

I guess they allow flexibility - what if you don't have a platform to hand. What if you're out in a field and need to do a quick bit of maintenance. Them steps would come in handy there, so aye, the steps would be for climbing up to have a shoofty at the goings on up there.

[capncnut]

Okay Philly, you've twisted my arm! In an attempt to catch you out I decided to read the entire working draft screenplay of Dawn. In this foolish attempt, I actually found out that the whole subject of Fran being pregnant is not 'mentioned' in the script until the following morning just after the guys climb down from the roof! This confused me somewhat so I decided to retrace my steps back to the night before. In doing so, I uncovered the truth (in Italic). Oh and to all you other male HPotD members - behave yourself!


Stephen curls up with his head on the rolled blanket.

Steve: "Come on, get some sleep."

The woman doesn't move.

Steve: "Frannie. Come on."

She grinds her cigarette out on the concrete floor and stretches out next to the man. He puts his arm around her. His hands rub up and down her body as he gently curls next to her. He opens her blouse and reaches inside. He closes his eyes and seems perfectly comfortable to rest in her softness. His hand moves under her clothing. She doesn't respond, at first, then her body relaxes somewhat and she brings one of her arms up around his head.

Steve: "I'm not just being stubborn, I really think this is better. Hell, you're the one's been wantin' to set up house."

She stares off across the barren room. His hands continue to move under her blouse.


This proves without a shadow of a doubt he knew beforehand because the whole "she's pregnant" dialogue does not exist in the script and the next scene after is the "den mother" rant. Flyboy was obviously stroking her tummy because he knew Fran was pregnant so therefore I take my hat off to you.

Props Philly, you win this time my friend!










For now... :sneaky:

[jim102016]

I guess they allow flexibility - what if you don't have a platform to hand. What if you're out in a field and need to do a quick bit of maintenance. Them steps would come in handy there, so aye, the steps would be for climbing up to have a shoofty at the goings on up there.

Exactly, by climbing up that step, a man in the field could have a look at what's called the "Jesus Nut"...which holds the blades in place. Pre-flight inspection is required before any flight, and I know I'd want to know those ^&*%$#@ things weren't coming off before I got my ass inside and up in the air!


Jesus Nut - Large nut which holds rotor on rotor shaft

[ipotts85]

getting back to the helicopter fueling issue: this is addressed in the commentary. this wasn't a 'flub' - it was done so for logistics reasons. i guess it just looked better on film...