The Truth is Taking Over

[Éamon_DeValera]

"Official" 9/11 story On Life support; The Truth is Taking Over

OpEd News | October 16, 2006
by John Perry

The gutless purveyors of fraud trying to shout down the 9/11 Truth movement are not going to like this news. The "official" story is on life support, and the prognosis is not good.

A new New York Times/CBS poll reveals that only 16 percent of Americans think they're being told the whole truth about 9/11, down from 21 percent in May of 2002. Over this same period, the number who believe the administration is "hiding something" has actually decreased from 65 to 53 percent, which might seem odd, but only until you take into account that the ranks of those who think the Bush crime family is "mostly lying" has skyrocketed from 8 to 28 percent. Feelings are getting stronger. Skepticism is giving way to certainty. The 9/11 Truth Movement is growing exponentially.

This growth appears to be striking nerves in the "debunker" community. They're no longer just laughing feebly and attempting to toss us into the imaginary dustbin of negative connotations with labels like "conspiracy theorists", "paranoid liberals" and "clown shoe conspiradroids" (which I'm sure somebody spent hours coming up with and thinks is really clever).

It now seems that we are beginning to move from stage one of nineteenth century philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer's three stages of truth, which is ridicule, to stage two, which is violent opposition (stage three is acceptance of the truth as being self-evident). This is apparent in the fact that many in the "debunking" crowd have now taken to equating us with people who deny the Holocaust. That's right folks, we're "9/11 deniers".

These goons can't even make their propaganda make sense. How can a movement of millions seeking the truth about and justice for 9/11 possibly be called deniers? Why would we be seeking answers for something that we're supposedly denying?

They might counter that we are denying not the event, but the truth of the event. That is, the truth according to them , which essentially consists of "your crackpot theories have been debunked hundreds of times, shut up, go home, conspiradroid." Forget a truly objective analysis of the entirety of evidence. The "debunkers" can't be bothered. We just need to take their word for it. They're smarter than us and we should just accept whatever they say as gospel.

Nice try, geniuses. The real deniers are staring back at you from the mirror.

For the sake of clarity: I am not attacking those who are unsure where they stand regarding responsibility for the 9/11 attacks, or those who just plain don't think it's possible that a remorseless band of homegrown murderers could exist within our own government. I am living proof that this is not a reality that is easy to accept. It took me over two years of quiet research and another six months before I could bring myself to write about it. I eventually realized that silence is tantamount to complicity, and the writing came easily.

My focus is on those who viciously, sophomorically, disingenuously and shamefully attack us for simply trying to initiate a legitimate, truly independent 9/11 investigation.

If you think the 9/11 Commission's "investigation" was legitimate, you need to expand your information horizons. Reams of very important, very relevant testimony that occurred before them was completely ignored in their final report. For example, the testimony of former transportation secretary Norman Mineta .

Mineta was in the Presidential Emergency Operations Center with Dick Cheney on the morning of 9/11, as the craft that eventually struck the Pentagon approached. Here is an excerpt from his testimony:

"There was a young man who would come in and say to the vice president 'the plane is 50 miles out'...'the plane is 30 miles out'...and when it got down to 'the plane is 10 miles out', the young man also said to the vice president 'do the orders still stand?', and the vice president turned and whipped his head around and said 'of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?'"

Given the undisputed reality that whatever was approaching the Pentagon did indeed eventually hit the building, what could those orders possibly have been, except to NOT shoot down that aircraft? And if this is the case, why was it NOT shot down?

A legitimate 9/11 Commission would have wanted to explore this question in depth. Instead, the issue was dropped and Mineta's testimony was not mentioned in their final report.

Quite interestingly, Mr. Mineta very quietly resigned his position in June of this year, the day after James Fetzer, Co-Founder of Scholars for 9/11 Truth made this appearance on Fox News Channel's Hannity and Colmes program. Perhaps it was divine intervention that had Oliver North sitting in for hapless Bush parrot Sean Hannity that evening, which allowed Fetzer to actually complete a few sentences without being repeatedly drowned out by childish Hannity rants.

It might also interest you to know that the executive director of the supposedly independent 9/11 Commission was a man named Philip Zelikow, who also happens to have served on the Bush transition team, penned Bush's preemptive war strategy, and co-written a book with his close friend Condoleezza Rice.

The 9/11 Commission is a complete farce. Three thousand people died on 9/11 and nobody in government got so much as a slap on the wrist. Anybody who refers to this group's "investigation" as confirmation of the "official story" of 9/11 is either under-informed or lying. There is much more on this aspect of the 9/11 cover up in the must-see new film "9/11 Press for Truth", which you can watch for free, in its entirety, right here .

The attackers of the 9/11 Truth Movement are failing their country miserably. They are not patriots. They are the aspiring fascist foot soldiers of the neoconservative new world vision. They would rather get in line and follow a lie than risk some harmless scorn in a genuine search for truth and justice. They are cowards of the highest order.

I have said it before and I will say it again: It takes little more than a grade school education to understand that the tragic events of 9/11 did indeed involve a conspiracy. This is not theory. This is FACT .

Read the definition of the word .

The real questions: Who are the conspirators? Who had the means to carry out the mission? Who stood to benefit most from it? A truly legitimate, truly independent 9/11 investigation would operate transparently, explore these questions thoroughly and answer them conclusively. It seems to me that anyone interested in quieting the "conspiracy theorists" for good would be perfectly willing to accept such an investigation.

How about it, all you "debunkers"? If you're not a bunch of Bush boot-licking brown shirt wanna-bes, prove it. If you're tired of hearing us speculate, put your money where your mouth is. Stand side by side with the 9/11 Truth Movement, call for a completely transparent, truly independent 9/11 investigation, and demand justice.

[p2501]

awww look at the little troll.

ain't he cute.

[Adrenochrome]

awww look at the little troll.

ain't he cute.

I want to pet him and squeeze him and love him and make him mine!

[Terran]

awww look at the little troll.

ain't he cute.

Jah I know who even wants to read a post that long from a person who never posted before....:D

[p2501]

I want to pet him and squeeze him and love him and make him mine!

ok, you can keep him.


Jah I know who even wants to read a post that long from a person who never posted before....:D

what's sad is he's probably an ALT account for some nimrod that already posts here.

[Adrenochrome]

ok, you can keep him.

ok, cool.....my albino python is getting hungry.:D :mad:

[dmbfanintn]

I want to pet him and squeeze him and love him and make him mine!

Come on Adreno!!!! You forgot "and call him George"

[p2501]

ok, cool.....my albino python is getting hungry.:D :mad:

take pictures.

[Danny]

come on mods sort this troll out, cus he aint the kind with crazy pink hair up ni a big spike.

those things were creepy.:)

[capncnut]

What was the post about anyway?

[Danny]

just stop posting in em and they'll soon be forgotten.

[Arcades057]

OK, I'll answer a little of it...


A new New York Times/CBS poll reveals that only 16 percent of Americans think they're being told the whole truth about 9/11, down from 21 percent in May of 2002. Over this same period, the number who believe the administration is "hiding something" has actually decreased from 65 to 53 percent, which might seem odd, but only until you take into account that the ranks of those who think the Bush crime family is "mostly lying" has skyrocketed from 8 to 28 percent. Feelings are getting stronger. Skepticism is giving way to certainty. The 9/11 Truth Movement is growing exponentially.

All this means is that the population is getting dumber every year. The fact that you posted this here means that you just made those of us who read the entire post dumber. Thank you. I am now almost on the level of your average democrat. You just turned DJ into an American Socialist Party member.

:rockbrow:

[MikePizzoff]

This is a bad board to post things on this topic. I don't know if there's a single person, besides myself, that's in support of this movement.

I appreciate it, though.

[Arcades057]

Mike you'll find morons like that everywhere. I'm sure there are people here who believe 9/11 was a gubbment conspiracy... initiated by a man who most of those same people will label America's dumbest president ever, never noticing the contradiction.

[LouCipherr]

You just turned DJ into an American Socialist Party member.

:lol: I have absolutely nothing to add, but that was some funny sh*t!

[DjfunkmasterG]

Sorry, but i truly believe there is way more to 9/11 then what they tell us. Infact I am at the point where I believe GWB orchestrated the whole friggin thing himself, just for an excuse to go to war in IRAQ.

Funnything is why would terrorists fly planes into empty buildings. I mean 9:01 am nothing is really happening at the WTC, why go so early. If they wanted to kill the infidels like they claim don't ya think they would have waited until 11:00am or later.

anyway, I am tired of hearing about 9/11 regardless of what went down... 3000 people lost their lives and this gov't hasn't done jack**** about it... Time to impeach that right wing nut sucker!

[Arcades057]

DING DING DING!! Speak of the devil. :lol: :lol:

1) The earlier flights would mean there were less people on the planes, ie, less people to fight back.

2) Most offices start their day around 8am-9am. Ever heard that song "Working 9-5"...?

3) You think GWB orchestrated it... but you also think he's stupid. how does one form such a vast conspiracy being so stupid? Also, how does he manage to convince so many others, myself included? Does this mean that you are somehow smarter than all of these people? Of is it just that your hatred of Bush (for winning an election) has made you believe anything that any nutjob spews forth about him?

4) Where did all of the people go?

5) Why just crash the plane in Pennsylvania?

6) Why has absolutley no evidence of a conspiracy surfaced? Even with the JFK assassination there were a few SHREDS of evidence that pointed to another shooter... nothing with 9/11, just the prattling of loonies on the net.

7) If Bush's plan was to go to war against Iraq, why stop first in Afghanistan? Why give the UN a few months to work? Why give Saddam time to leave? Why did he not just come to office and say "you know, Mr. Clinton was right when he said we should go to war with Iraq all those times. Ima do it!"?

8) How's that Kool-aid taste? :D

[DjfunkmasterG]

Well

we all know Cheney, not Bush makes all the decisions with this country. Funny how they hid him on 9/11 but put ole W out there for anyone to take a pot shot at.

We stopped in afghanista, yeah as a breather.

Where's OSAMA?

IRAQ was a great success, 3 years 700,000 dead... for what? Answer me that.

[Arcades057]

Answer mine first, if you please.

Iraq is no loger controlled by Saddam, right? He's in jail, right? That was the point. Now answer mine.

[deadpunk]

Well

we all know Cheney, not Bush makes all the decisions with this country. Funny how they hid him on 9/11 but put ole W out there for anyone to take a pot shot at.


OMFG...the president out and about when his country needs him most?! Indeeed, he should have been cowering in a bunker someplace, so the uninformed masses could have more ammo to use against him! Good call.

We all know Cheney runs everything? I didn't know that. We are talking about the guy thats so senile he shot his hunting buddy in the face because he thought he was a quail...right? Same guy, right? Yeppers...he's a mastermind, alright.



IRAQ was a great success, 3 years 700,000 dead... for what? Answer me that.

Had any buildings knocked down in your neighbourhood lately, have you? :rockbrow:



Where's OSAMA?


Psssst...if we knew, it would all be over.

Why is this post still here anyway?

[LouCipherr]

we all know Cheney, not Bush makes all the decisions with this country. Funny how they hid him on 9/11 but put ole W out there for anyone to take a pot shot at.


WHOA! STOP THE LOVE TRAIN RIGHT HERE! :D

If this is the case, then why do you incessantly rag on Bush? Seems to me that you have some wires crossed.

If Cheney, not Bush (just as you said) makes "all the decisions with this country" then EVERY SINGLE one of your bitches about Bush have no legs what so ever. Nice contradiction there.. now we can move on... :p

START THE TRAIN AGAIN! Nothing to see here.... :lol:

[DjfunkmasterG]

WHOA! STOP THE LOVE TRAIN RIGHT HERE! :D

If this is the case, then why do you incessantly rag on Bush? Seems to me that you have some wires crossed.

If Cheney, not Bush (just as you said) makes "all the decisions with this country" then EVERY SINGLE one of your bitches about Bush have no legs what so ever. Nice contradiction there.. now we can move on... :p

START THE TRAIN AGAIN! Nothing to see here.... :lol:

Hold the train, no one has paid the toll to proceed. I have to blame Bush because Cheney is the one pulling all the strings on the Bush puppet. See if you make stupid decisions, it is easyie to put the dumbass out in the public eye, this way it takes all the heat off you. Now the other reason I blame Bush is because of the agreement he has on the decisions Cheney makes. He does what he is told, so he goes up front, makes a spectacle of himself... therefore he has to take all the heat.

However, in 2 more years we won't have to worry about it again. :D

[p2501]

Sorry, but i truly believe there is way more to 9/11 then what they tell us. Infact I am at the point where I believe GWB orchestrated the whole friggin thing himself, just for an excuse to go to war in IRAQ.

Funnything is why would terrorists fly planes into empty buildings. I mean 9:01 am nothing is really happening at the WTC, why go so early. If they wanted to kill the infidels like they claim don't ya think they would have waited until 11:00am or later.

anyway, I am tired of hearing about 9/11 regardless of what went down... 3000 people lost their lives and this gov't hasn't done jack**** about it... Time to impeach that right wing nut sucker!

1) tin foil + hat = you.

2) because clearly the terrorists had a consise op plan, and it was being heavily improvised. seriously read up on actualy terrorism, and stop assuming 24 is in anyway based in reality.

3) agreed on this one.

[MinionZombie]

One random point I wanted to chip in to this hotbed of chit-chat, perhaps people aren't giving the terrorists enough "credit", if there was such a thing. As in, just because it's always considered that America (or similar) do all the fancy sh*t, doesn't mean terrorists from the Middle East couldn't achieve the same thing.

I liked South Park's take on the conspiracy theory - that if it happened it was the an endlessly intricate plan carried out to flawless perfection ... now, to go against what I just said, the middle eastern terrorist wankers aren't that "good". Basically the episode said, without saying it, that sh*t happens and it can't be explained or comprehended unless you're a supreme being with all-knowledge or you were involved in it on the frontline.

[DjfunkmasterG]

1) tin foil + hat = you.

2) because clearly the terrorists had a consise op plan, and it was being heavily improvised. seriously read up on actualy terrorism, and stop assuming 24 is in anyway based in reality.

3) agreed on this one.

I don't even watch 24. I find shows like this to be meaningless attempts at sensationalism (sp?) I can't believe anything this gov't says when they release a 9/11 report with pages missing. What are they trying to hide?

Though I find the event, no matter who carried it out, to be horrific in nature and shows a complete lack of security in this country. However, I also don't feel my privacy should be invaded to help catch terrorists. Sorry, but anytime the gov't can listen to my phone calls without cause... leads me to feel I no longer live in a free country.

Though this has gone on for sometime, and probably way before the Bush administration took office, it is still something that repulses me at every turn. With all the CIA departments and people working on spying on people around the world, someone is trying to tell me this was unavoidable. I have one word to reply, Bullsh!t! I hold this administration accountable for everything that is wrong with the world right now. Their actions have put the american public in greater jeopardy than any administration before it.

Also, the tin foil hat, should be more referenced as BLINDERS. That would fit more perfectly, if I am to be labeled with anything.

[p2501]

One random point I wanted to chip in to this hotbed of chit-chat, perhaps people aren't giving the terrorists enough "credit", if there was such a thing. As in, just because it's always considered that America (or similar) do all the fancy sh*t, doesn't mean terrorists from the Middle East couldn't achieve the same thing.

I liked South Park's take on the conspiracy theory - that if it happened it was the an endlessly intricate plan carried out to flawless perfection ... now, to go against what I just said, the middle eastern terrorist wankers aren't that "good". Basically the episode said, without saying it, that sh*t happens and it can't be explained or comprehended unless you're a supreme being with all-knowledge or you were involved in it on the frontline.


Your pretty much dead on. Al queada had been circulating the idea of hi-jacking planes and crashing them into **** since 1996. but originally they were going to do it in the pacific, hitting cities in japan, australia, taiwan, the phillipenes, indonesia, and maybe Hawaii. but they couldn't get enough people into play. so the plan was "shelved" untill they converted it into the 9-11 plot.

What gets me is the underlying assumption that arab terrorists are either incompitent, stupid, or both. the idea that they just bumbled onto four passenger airplanes, and hijacked them while yelling ALALALALALALAL, is pathetic.

the fact of the matter is they were, intelligent, well funded, well trained and exploited the exact same mentality i was just talking about. they used the fact morning flights are usually business travelers and security is always lax during the early morning rush to their advantage and the rest we all know about.

further South parks take on it was absolutely perfect.

[LouCipherr]

Sorry, but anytime the gov't can listen to my phone calls without cause... leads me to feel I no longer live in a free country.

Well, you know as well as I do we haven't lived in a "free country" for decades if not longer - Bush has nothing to do with it except to keep that precedent moving along. People "listening in to your phone calls for no reason" isn't the only reason to think your rights as a US citizen has been stripped. It happened looooooong before Bush Sr. and Jr. were in office, and continued through both of them and your favorite "slick willy". :p


...and in response to the bush/cheney, "cheney makes all the decisions" deal - well, if cheney is the one making the decisions, then as I said, Bush isn't to blame. The president is a puppet - you even admitted to that - and a puppet is stupid by default (can a puppet make decisions? no. It can only agree with that the puppeteer tells him to do - the puppet cannot think for itself), so in essence your arguments about Bush should really be directed to Cheney if that's how you feel things really are. Me thinks you might be blaming the wrong person here. Blame the person making the 'decisions' - not the puppet that agrees with those decisions ('cause he's too fu*king stupid to do otherwise - believe me, I agree with you 100% on this - Bush is a moron)

...and lets reiterate it one more time: THERE IS NO 9/11 CONSPIRACY! Go ask the Illuminati - they'll tell you, they know first-hand what happened and why. :lol:


:lol: for those who watch me and Dj bitch about politics to one another, know that we razz each other out of fun and we both think it's kinda funny. :D I just like messin' with Dj, and he loves poking me in the eye with a hot french fry once in a while.. :D

oh snap, should I have said "Freedom Fries"? :lol:

[LouCipherr]

These discussions don't "kill" a forum - quite the contrary. If you look at the political threads here in General Discussions, there's quite a few reads and replies on them - a lot more then quite a few of the other topics.

I personally think it's healthy to discuss such things as long as people don't end up flaming each other. That's when it gets out of hand and degenerates into something no one wants to see.

Hell, look at Dj and myself - as many jabs as I send his way about politics, he jabs right back - but neither of us are flaming, we're just having a healthy political debate and having some fun in the process - same with everyone else.

It's all good.... 'till someone gets their eye poked out (preferrably with a hot french... errr.. 'freedom' fry.. :lol:)

Besides, this is the 'general discussions' forum - everything goes here (within reason) - zombie discussions are all over the forum - just in their correct place. ;)

[p2501]

I don't even watch 24. I find shows like this to be meaningless attempts at sensationalism (sp?) I can't believe anything this gov't says when they release a 9/11 report with pages missing. What are they trying to hide?

Though I find the event, no matter who carried it out, to be horrific in nature and shows a complete lack of security in this country. However, I also don't feel my privacy should be invaded to help catch terrorists. Sorry, but anytime the gov't can listen to my phone calls without cause... leads me to feel I no longer live in a free country.

Though this has gone on for sometime, and probably way before the Bush administration took office, it is still something that repulses me at every turn. With all the CIA departments and people working on spying on people around the world, someone is trying to tell me this was unavoidable. I have one word to reply, Bullsh!t! I hold this administration accountable for everything that is wrong with the world right now. Their actions have put the american public in greater jeopardy than any administration before it.

Also, the tin foil hat, should be more referenced as BLINDERS. That would fit more perfectly, if I am to be labeled with anything.

1) they're hiding classifed testimony relating to counter intelligence gathering and operations, inflitration personel, and our response in afghanistan to the attacks.

they're also covering the ass of the CIA, FBI and NSA. wehich before you bitch about their failures. consider two points. 1) Clinton absolutely gutted our budgets for both foreign and domestic intel gathering. 2) dop you have any idea how many plots those agencies have prevented from seeing success? Neither do i, but the fact of the matter i there haven't been any terrorists attacks in the US since 1993. and that's not due to a lack of trying by any number of groups.

2) that's fine, and i agree.

3) you can hold whoever you want responsible, and that's fine. but the fact of the matter is that only the terrorists bear the blame for what happened. The TSA screwed up, but seriously, do you have any expectation of protection from the TSA? As for our intel failing us, read my second paragraph again. our intel services were underfuned and still forced to watch every group on the planet that is trying to attacking US domestic citizens. these agencies track records speak for themselves.

[_liam_]

of course there was a little bit of conspiring, but cmon, the bottom had fallen out of the arms market, and you can never have enough oil - what were they supposed to do? do you wanna die poor & young cos our beautiful supercivilisations have collapsed, while backward middle eastern theocracies dance on our graves?
bring on the one world government i say!


...i'm not actually sure if i'm joking or not

on a more sober note, i refer you to maddox's article "there is no 9/11 conspiracy you morons" on thebestpageintheuniverse.com, he sets things straight.

[LouCipherr]

on a more sober note, i refer you to maddox's article "there is no 9/11 conspiracy you morons" on thebestpageintheuniverse.com, he sets things straight.

:lol: I love Maddox, and I love that little 9/11 conspiracy thingy he wrote. good stuff, and y'know what? Like George Carlin, he may be joking about all this stuff, but sometimes his ideas make perfect sense..... :)

[DjfunkmasterG]

1) they're hiding classifed testimony relating to counter intelligence gathering and operations, inflitration personel, and our response in afghanistan to the attacks.

they're also covering the ass of the CIA, FBI and NSA. wehich before you bitch about their failures. consider two points. 1) Clinton absolutely gutted our budgets for both foreign and domestic intel gathering. 2) dop you have any idea how many plots those agencies have prevented from seeing success? Neither do i, but the fact of the matter i there haven't been any terrorists attacks in the US since 1993. and that's not due to a lack of trying by any number of groups.

2) that's fine, and i agree.

3) you can hold whoever you want responsible, and that's fine. but the fact of the matter is that only the terrorists bear the blame for what happened. The TSA screwed up, but seriously, do you have any expectation of protection from the TSA? As for our intel failing us, read my second paragraph again. our intel services were underfuned and still forced to watch every group on the planet that is trying to attacking US domestic citizens. these agencies track records speak for themselves.


Actually the Clinton statement is incorrect. It has been proven he wanted to take down Osama, but in his second term when the chance to do it showed itself 5 times, the republican controlled congress and senate denied his request.

This was proven by many sources including MSNBC and CNN, Fox... well you can't trust a damn thing they say. They always twist it in the current presidents favor.

[p2501]

Actually the Clinton statement is incorrect. It has been proven he wanted to take down Osama, but in his second term when the chance to do it showed itself 5 times, the republican controlled congress and senate denied his request.

This was proven by many sources including MSNBC and CNN, Fox... well you can't trust a damn thing they say. They always twist it in the current presidents favor.

twist? ok, sure. He blinded our intel services and resisted CIA offers to put HK personel on the ground in Afghanistan.

but sure yeah, he was big on offing Osama. so big he put 33 cruise missles into an Afghan camp that had been abondoned for weeks. oh and there was that "chemical weapons" plant he blew up as well..... :rolleyes:

sorry but Clinton was a ****e president.

not that our current one is any better.

[LouCipherr]

Whoa, stop the love train AGAIN for a second. We've been over this before..

Dj, Clinton himself said, and I quote, "the worst mistake of (his) presidency" was not taking out Osama when he had three different opportunities to do so. I dunno where you got "5" from, but "3" was directly from the horses (ass.. :D) mouth and republicans had NOTHING to do with it. Don't feed us this BS. He said it himself, and now you wanna listen to the so-called 'news channels'?

You, of all people, know better than that. :p

[deadpunk]

no wonder every other country in the world holds America in such contempt. How much vanity does it take for Americans to actually stand up and state:

There must be a conspiracy somewhere, because no one WOULD DARE attack America outright!!!!

:barf:

[p2501]

no wonder every other country in the world holds America in such contempt. How much vanity does it take for Americans to actually stand up and state:

There must be a conspiracy somewhere, because no one WOULD DARE attack America outright!!!!

:barf:

well put. i likes it.

[DjfunkmasterG]

Actually,

People have been stating they feel 9/11 was rigged by the Bush administration. It has been shouted from the tree tops for the last 2 years. Where the heck has anyone been?

As far as Clinton, during the little ambush set up on him by MSNBC made headlines, people have come forward and admitted Clinton did try, and was shut down by congress and the senate.

His comments I believe to be exact. "My biggest regret was not pushing the issue harder than I did, but I regret not taking him out."

[deadpunk]

Actually,

People have been stating they feel 9/11 was rigged by the Bush administration. It has been shouted from the tree tops for the last 2 years. Where the heck has anyone been?

I'm not denying people state that, or have been forever. I'm merely acknowledging how idiotic it makes us look as a whole.

Whats interesting is that America can not seem to suffer a tragedy without it involving a conspiracy. Pearl Harbor was a conspiracy. JFK was a conspiracy. Even Elvis was a conspiracy.

Really...a fat guy can't have a heart attack on his 'torlet' while eating a fried Peanut Butter and bologna sammich, without it being a conspiracy?

Boooooooring.

Ladies and Gentlemen, deadpunk has left the building. :elol:

[Adrenochrome]

Really...a fat guy can't have a heart attack on his 'torlet' while eating a fried Peanut Butter and bologna sammich, without it being a conspiracy?



That's funny....
Back in '97(ish) I live down the street from this old, fat guy....he actually DID have a heart attack while on the "throne" - He was a whacked out nutjob; claimed that the "spies for the VA hospital" snuck into his house and injected him with spider venom, thus giving him the heart attack.

[LouCipherr]

His comments I believe to be exact. "My biggest regret was not pushing the issue harder than I did, but I regret not taking him out."

No, his quote was more like "The worst mistake of my presidency was not addressing the Osama Bin Laden situation on three different occasions when we had the chance" I can't remember the exact quote, but he never mentioned anything at all about him actually trying to do something about bin laden. not a thing. He had his chances, he missed them, and he fully admitted that he goofed, which is probably the only thing I can respect Clinton for... and you're still trying to defend him and say otherwise?

Dude, kiss him first before you go down on him next time! :lol:

**edited to add:

this is not the quote I originally found, but geez dude, here's another one straight from the horses ass..err..mouth:

In the words of Clinton himself, as quoted by the Sunday Times of London, Clinton's failure to accept an offer to have Bin Laden handed over was the "Biggest Mistake" of his presidency.

Go look it up. look for "US missed three chances to seize Bin Laden" printed in The Sunday Times of London on 01/06/2002. put that in your pipe and smoke it (along with some HPotD, mmm-kay? :D)


People have been stating they feel 9/11 was rigged by the Bush administration. It has been shouted from the tree tops for the last 2 years. Where the heck has anyone been?

and who are these "people"? there's only one I know that shouted this, and it was YOU! :lol: absolutely no one I know, even clinton supporters and democrats, have ever cried this to me. I see lots of people online saying it, but these people are the conspiracy theorists.. are you part of that bunch now? noooooo! say it isn't so! :p

[tju1973]

give a synopsis-- but do it with a hint of truth--

I used to have a troll, but we called it a dammit doll-- you used to shake him real hard and it made his hair stick up-- pretty cool if you asked me...

:rolleyes:

[deadpunk]

That's the basis of the problem with a 9/11 conspiracy, tju...there is NO proof. There has never been a single shred of evidence to indicate that anything was afoot. Just the yammering of internet conspiracy theorists and the anti-Bush League.

The thing these people keep pointing to is that most of the 9/11 fact-finding reports were released without ALL of the information available to the general public. Which only makes sense. Freedom of information is great, but why would you share any of the following with everybody and anybody:
1) the names and locations of undercover operatives implanted in terrorist organizations.
2) military evaluations of America's weaker security areas that COULD be vulnerable in another attack.
3) information garnered that lists other possible attack scenarios
4) any and all info that our intel has gathered on Al-Quida.

Just because pages are missing does not absolutely point to information that makes the Bush administration look bad. Most likely, it is info that has been kept out of the hands of the general populace to protect US.

I find it interesting that people could actually believe that the Bush admin. and Osama plotted this together. What did either side actually gain?

Bush has become one of the most loathed presidents since the Vietnam era.

The Al-Quida have had the dictator that let them run rampant imprisoned. The opium business that funded them has been utterly descimated. It's leader has been forced into living in caves and dirt holes because he is the most hunted bastard on the planet.

The only people that benefited were the Iraqis, who managed to secure a democratic government out of this whole thing.

I would really like to have seen the sales pitch from Cheney to Osama on this so-called conspiracy.

[dmbfanintn]

The only people that benefited were the Iraqis, who managed to secure a democratic government out of this whole thing.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That has to be the most ridiculous thing I have read on here in months!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[p2501]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That has to be the most ridiculous thing I have read on here in months!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


heh, well to his credit DP statement is correct. Iraq does have a democratic government.

they also have maybe 700,000 dead civilans on the deck, an occupied country in shambles, and Syria pissing non-stop insurgents into the country.

[deadpunk]

That has to be the most ridiculous thing I have read on here in months!!!!

Because life in a dictatorship was probably so much better, huh? If you don't think that, in the long term, the Iraqis will benefit from whats transpired... I'd hate to live in your world.

[dmbfanintn]

heh, well to his credit DP statement is correct. Iraq does have a democratic government.

they also have maybe 700,000 dead civilans on the deck, an occupied country in shambles, and Syria pissing non-stop insurgents into the country.

Oh yeah, they have a government, and it WAS elected.

I was more referring to this statement:

The only people that benefited were the Iraqis

It still amazes me how cold Americans are toward innocent Iraqi civilians losing thier lives at the hands of our troops!

[p2501]

Oh yeah, they have a government, and it WAS elected.

I was more referring to this statement:

The only people that benefited were the Iraqis

It still amazes me how cold Americans are toward innocent Iraqi civilians losing thier lives at the hands of our troops!

fair enough. altough i'm skeptical if it's him overlooking the issue or a wrong inference being taken from his wording.

excluding waht i've sadi eariler Iraq has benefited slighty from us bing there so, when viewed in that contaxt the statement is factually correct. it just excludes all of the negatives that are ongoing over there.

[Arcades057]

The only "proof" the conspiracy wonks have to point to a conspiracy is the photos of the Pentagon attack where there are no pieces of the plane fuselage visible... but they don't link to pics where the plane's parts are clearly there on the lawn.

DP got it right: The whole point of the conspiracy is because these folks, the wonks, can't believe that some Turd World schmucks got together and caused the damage to the Sleeping Giant that they did. If they admit that did indeed occur, then they must also admit that terrorism is a true threat... and because it is a threat, then things like the PATRIOT Act, the suspension of Habeas Corpus that just went through-on certain folks-and a warrior administration are required. God forbid they admit that! These people are a not on the level of the JFK conspiracy theorists; they're a different group entirely. These people are like the moon-landing conspiracy theorists: Nuts. Most, if not all, of them are on the Left and at the core of their (bowel) movement, they HATE, LOATHE, DESPISE Bush. That's it.

And yes, before anyone asks, I DO believe wholeheartedly that had this happened under Clinton, there'd be nuts on the Right saying Clinton had something to do with it. And they'd still be nuts. And they'd still be wrong.

[p2501]

paralelling what pretty much everyone is saying in regards to the conspiracy nuts (aspecially Arcades), i give you the Bull**** Synopsis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVTKoPK7gaQ
EDIT:
embedding isn't working, i'll have to post the direct link.

[deadpunk]

fair enough. altough i'm skeptical if it's him overlooking the issue or a wrong inference being taken from his wording.

excluding waht i've sadi eariler Iraq has benefited slighty from us bing there so, when viewed in that contaxt the statement is factually correct. it just excludes all of the negatives that are ongoing over there.

I'm not intentionally overlooking the issue.

Yes, there have been alot of casualties in Iraq. Yes, there has been alot of strife that would not (that we know of) have occured without our involvement over there. But, from a Realistic standpoint: that is war.

You only have to look backwards to see that the future of the Iraqi people has benefitted from America aiding in placing a democratic government in their country. And, if you don't know where to look back at; try any of the Nazi-occupied countries of Pre-Allied Forces WWII. :rockbrow: dmbfanintn...do you really think that anyone living in these countries today are walking around saying: "God, if only the allied forces had minded their own business..." Yet, they suffered as badly, if not worse, than the people of Iraq.

Would it be great to end terrorism and depose dictators and madmen without civilian casualty? Sure it would. It's just not the reality of the situation. If you want to make martyrs of those that died, so be it. I'll help you stitch the Iraqi Quilt. But, don't whine about how cold hearted I am. I've lost good friends in this war, I UNDERSTAND loss. Yet, you have to detatch yourself from the overwhelming numbers of lives lost to see the big picture.

There is no conspiracy.
Wars kill people.

[p2501]

agreed, completely.