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View Full Version : The Death of Habeas Corpus



Éamon_DeValera
19-Oct-2006, 05:24 PM
Keith Olbermann has been calling it like it is.

His "Special Comments" are indeed special because no other talking head outside of Cafferty is willing to step up to the plate and say what needs to be said on 24/7. "Your words are lies, Sir." They are lies, that imperil us all.' Sounds about right to me.

Olbermann: And lastly, as promised, a Special Comment tonight on the signing of the Military Commissions Act and the loss of Habeas Corpus.

We have lived as if in a trance. We have lived… as people in fear.

And now — our rights and our freedoms in peril — we slowly awake to learn that we have been afraid… of the wrong thing.

Therefore, tonight, have we truly become, the inheritors of our American legacy. For, on this first full day that the Military Commissions Act is in force, we now face what our ancestors faced, at other times of exaggerated crisis and melodramatic fear-mongering:

And lastly, as promised, a Special Comment tonight on the signing of the Military Commissions Act and the loss of Habeas Corpus.

We have lived as if in a trance.

We have lived… as people in fear.

And now — our rights and our freedoms in peril — we slowly awake to learn that we have been afraid… of the wrong thing.

Therefore, tonight, have we truly become, the inheritors of our American legacy.

For, on this first full day that the Military Commissions Act is in force, we now face what our ancestors faced, at other times of exaggerated crisis and melodramatic fear-mongering:

A government more dangerous to our liberty, than is the enemy it claims to protect us from.

We have been here before — and we have been here before led here — by men better and wiser and nobler than George W. Bush.

We have been here when President John Adams insisted that the Alien and Sedition Acts were necessary to save American lives — only to watch him use those Acts to jail newspaper editors.

American newspaper editors, in American jails, for things they wrote, about America.

We have been here, when President Woodrow Wilson insisted that the Espionage Act was necessary to save American lives — only to watch him use that Act to prosecute 2,000 Americans, especially those he disparaged as "Hyphenated Americans," most of whom were guilty only of advocating peace in a time of war.

American public speakers, in American jails, for things they said, about America.

And we have been here when President Franklin D. Roosevelt insisted that Executive Order 9-0-6-6 was necessary to save American lives — only to watch him use that Order to imprison and pauperize 110-thousand Americans…

While his man-in-charge…

General DeWitt, told Congress: "It makes no difference whether he is an American citizen — he is still a Japanese."

American citizens, in American camps, for something they neither wrote nor said nor did — but for the choices they or their ancestors had made, about coming to America.

Each of these actions was undertaken for the most vital, the most urgent, the most inescapable of reasons.

And each, was a betrayal of that for which the President who advocated them, claimed to be fighting.

Adams and his party were swept from office, and the Alien and Sedition Acts erased.

Many of the very people Wilson silenced, survived him, and…

…one of them even ran to succeed him, and got 900-thousand votes… though his Presidential campaign was conducted entirely… from his jail cell.

And Roosevelt's internment of the Japanese was not merely the worst blight on his record, but it would necessitate a formal apology from the government of the United States, to the citizens of the United States, whose lives it ruined.

The most vital… the most urgent… the most inescapable of reasons.

In times of fright, we have been, only human.

We have let Roosevelt's "fear of fear itself" overtake us.

We have listened to the little voice inside that has said "the wolf is at the door; this will be temporary; this will be precise; this too shall pass."

We have accepted, that the only way to stop the terrorists, is to let the government become just a little bit like the terrorists.

Just the way we once accepted that the only way to stop the Soviets, was to let the government become just a little bit like the Soviets.

Or substitute… the Japanese.

Or the Germans.

Or the Socialists.

Or the Anarchists.

Or the Immigrants.

Or the British.

Or the Aliens.

The most vital, the most urgent, the most inescapable of reasons.

And, always, always… wrong.

"With the distance of history, the questions will be narrowed and few: Did this generation of Americans take the threat seriously, and did we do what it takes to defeat that threat?"

Wise words.

And ironic ones, Mr. Bush.

Your own, of course, yesterday, in signing the Military Commissions Act.

You spoke so much more than you know, Sir.

Sadly — of course — the distance of history will recognize that the threat this generation of Americans needed to take seriously… was you.

We have a long and painful history of ignoring the prophecy attributed to Benjamin Franklin that "those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

But even within this history, we have not before codified, the poisoning of Habeas Corpus, that wellspring of protection from which all essential liberties flow.

You, sir, have now befouled that spring.

You, sir, have now given us chaos and called it order.

You, sir, have now imposed subjugation and called it freedom.

For the most vital… the most urgent… the most inescapable of reasons.

And — again, Mr. Bush — all of them, wrong.

We have handed a blank check drawn against our freedom to a man who has said it is unacceptable to compare anything this country has ever done, to anything the terrorists have ever done.

We have handed a blank check drawn against our freedom to a man who has insisted again that "the United States does not torture. It's against our laws and it's against our values" and who has said it with a straight face while the pictures from Abu Ghraib Prison and the stories of Waterboarding figuratively fade in and out, around him.

We have handed a blank check drawn against our freedom to a man who may now, if he so decides, declare not merely any non-American citizens "Unlawful Enemy Combatants" and ship them somewhere — anywhere — but may now, if he so decides, declare you an "Unlawful Enemy Combatant" and ship you somewhere - anywhere.

And if you think this, hyperbole or hysteria… ask the newspaper editors when John Adams was President, or the pacifists when Woodrow Wilson was President, or the Japanese at Manzanar when Franklin Roosevelt was President.

And if you somehow think Habeas Corpus has not been suspended for American citizens but only for everybody else, ask yourself this: If you are pulled off the street tomorrow, and they call you an alien or an undocumented immigrant or an "unlawful enemy combatant" — exactly how are you going to convince them to give you a court hearing to prove you are not? Do you think this Attorney General is going to help you?

This President now has his blank check.

He lied to get it.

He lied as he received it.

Is there any reason to even hope, he has not lied about how he intends to use it, nor who he intends to use it against?

"These military commissions will provide a fair trial," you told us yesterday, Mr. Bush. "In which the accused are presumed innocent, have access to an attorney, and can hear all the evidence against them."

'Presumed innocent,' Mr. Bush?

The very piece of paper you signed as you said that, allows for the detainees to be abused up to the point just before they sustain "serious mental and physical trauma" in the hope of getting them to incriminate themselves, and may no longer even invoke The Geneva Conventions in their own defense.

'Access to an attorney,' Mr. Bush?

Lieutenant Commander Charles Swift said on this program, Sir, and to the Supreme Court, that he was only granted access to his detainee defendant, on the promise that the detainee would plead guilty.

'Hearing all the evidence,' Mr. Bush?

The Military Commissions act specifically permits the introduction of classified evidence not made available to the defense.

Your words are lies, Sir.

They are lies, that imperil us all.

"One of the terrorists believed to have planned the 9/11 attacks," …you told us yesterday… "said he hoped the attacks would be the beginning of the end of America."

That terrorist, sir, could only hope.

Not his actions, nor the actions of a ceaseless line of terrorists (real or imagined), could measure up to what you have wrought.

Habeas Corpus? Gone.

The Geneva Conventions? Optional.

The Moral Force we shined outwards to the world as an eternal beacon, and inwards at ourselves as an eternal protection? Snuffed out.

These things you have done, Mr. Bush… they would be "the beginning of the end of America."

And did it even occur to you once sir — somewhere in amidst those eight separate, gruesome, intentional, terroristic invocations of the horrors of 9/11 — that with only a little further shift in this world we now know — just a touch more repudiation of all of that for which our patriots died —

Did it ever occur to you once, that in just 27 months and two days from now when you leave office, some irresponsible future President and a "competent tribunal" of lackeys would be entitled, by the actions of your own hand, to declare the status of "Unlawful Enemy Combatant" for… and convene a Military Commission to try… not John Walker Lindh, but George Walker Bush?

For the most vital, the most urgent, the most inescapable of reasons.

And doubtless, sir, all of them — as always — wrong.

Joe Scarborough is next.

Good night, and good luck.

capncnut
19-Oct-2006, 05:36 PM
Dude, what's your favourite GAR movie? The Crazies?

Khardis
19-Oct-2006, 05:43 PM
Haha KKKeith Olbergoon... that guy has the lowest ratings for a news show on cable.

Bunker65
19-Oct-2006, 05:46 PM
Dude, what's your favourite GAR movie? The Crazies?

That is one of the greatest replies I've seen on this or any other forum I frequent in a long while :lol:.

Excellent post Capn :D.

Terran
19-Oct-2006, 05:49 PM
Where did you find this....

...something smells of copy 'n paste....

LouCipherr
19-Oct-2006, 06:08 PM
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e104/LouCipherr/Forum%20Pics/penn.gif

dmbfanintn
19-Oct-2006, 06:38 PM
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e104/LouCipherr/Forum%20Pics/penn.gif


SECOND!!!!

deadpunk
19-Oct-2006, 06:38 PM
That is one of the greatest replies I've seen on this or any other forum I frequent in a long while :lol:.

Excellent post Capn :D.

I agree!
Maybe this guy has just escaped notice. I've reported the post, I suggest you all do the same. We need this guy here like a hole in the head. :skull:

dmbfanintn
19-Oct-2006, 06:52 PM
I agree!
Maybe this guy has just escaped notice. I've reported the post, I suggest you all do the same. We need this guy here like a hole in the head. :skull:

How do you report a post. I will do it too.

deadpunk
19-Oct-2006, 07:08 PM
In the column on the left, the one with all the user info. At the very bottom is an exclamation point: ! Click on that and follow the form.

p2501
19-Oct-2006, 07:25 PM
Dude, what's your favourite GAR movie? The Crazies?

brilliant

dmbfanintn
19-Oct-2006, 07:27 PM
In the column on the left, the one with all the user info. At the very bottom is an exclamation point: ! Click on that and follow the form.

Done!

capncnut
19-Oct-2006, 07:34 PM
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e104/LouCipherr/Forum%20Pics/penn.gif

Okay guys, this is the first and only time you'll see me quote a Meatloaf track: "You took the words right outta my mouth!!!" That's it Penn, work your magic and make this whacko disappear!

LouCipherr
19-Oct-2006, 07:54 PM
Penn rules! :D

...and he took the words right outta my mouth with this one too. ;)

DjfunkmasterG
19-Oct-2006, 10:48 PM
How do you report a post. I will do it too.

Don't report him...


we bitch about the freedom to talk about what we want, and have issues with the curse filter... if we report him then we undermine everything we bitch about on a daily basis.

Just ignore him he will go away, they always do.

LouCipherr
19-Oct-2006, 10:53 PM
It's one thing to want to talk politics - that I have no problem with. As a new member, you should come in, sit down with a drink and some HPotD, introduce yourself, and lets chit chat.

...but to come here and just spouting off at the mouth like this? making your first 3 posts about government conspiracies? Nah, that's not 'freedom of speech' - that's being a complete and utter jackass.

dmbfanintn
19-Oct-2006, 10:58 PM
Don't report him...


we bitch about the freedom to talk about what we want, and have issues with the curse filter... if we report him then we undermine everything we bitch about on a daily basis.

Just ignore him he will go away, they always do.

This is the General "Discussion"! This guy ain't "discussing" sh!t. He posts some big long tripe and then doesn't come back to support his post or even defend the troll allegations!

It's obvious he's not interested in being an active member of this community.

If he would start participating in the discussion, it would be different.

deadpunk
19-Oct-2006, 11:05 PM
I did report him. That's what the system is in place for. And, to be honest, I'm finding it a far more effective way of dealing with trolls like this than my old habits of flaming them to death.

There is no discussion being wrought here. This individual (if there is even a human being behind that screen name) has come here for the sole purpose of spouting a one-sided opinion that does nothing more than disrupt the board.

As dmbfanintn points out, the guy NEVER even comes back to offer anything to the conversation. Look at the thread "THE TRUTH something or other" that is now almost 5 pages long. He made the initial post and hasn't replied to it since.

Report him.
Let sheriff Andy work his magic.
For once, I'm waiting to see it. :elol:

Kaos
19-Oct-2006, 11:14 PM
I did report him. That's what the system is in place for. And, to be honest, I'm finding it a far more effective way of dealing with trolls like this than my old habits of flaming them to death.

There is no discussion being wrought here. This individual (if there is even a human being behind that screen name) has come here for the sole purpose of spouting a one-sided opinion that does nothing more than disrupt the board.

As dmbfanintn points out, the guy NEVER even comes back to offer anything to the conversation. Look at the thread "THE TRUTH something or other" that is now almost 5 pages long. He made the initial post and hasn't replied to it since.

Report him.
Let sheriff Andy work his magic.
For once, I'm waiting to see it. :elol:

Since this does appear to be spam of a political nature the topic is closed.