one day to go... (USA VOTES)

[DjfunkmasterG]

Well, it's November 6th 2006. In less than 24 hours Polls will be opening in many states for americans to go out and cast their vote in the midterm elections.

Many polls show the democrats taking a strong lead, and other polls (Fox News) show the republican maintaining control of all 3 branches of Government. Basically what it will all come down to is how may vote, who they vote for, and if the electronic machine they might use isn't rigged to swing votes.

Many voter leagues and law groups are filing motions with courts to have machines examined for tampering before, during and after elections. The states having the heaviest focus are Maryland, Ohio, and parts of Florida. However, what is the main issue at hand... It is this... Is you elected official doing all he can for you? If you can answer yes to that question then by all means vote him another term. If you cannot answer yes, or have doubts you should probably vote for someone else.

We have learned quite a few things in the last 6 years, actually the last 20. When dems were in control of the house and senate things we were almost as bad as they (repubs) are now. I say almost because they didn't have the blatant scams, and illegal acceptance of gifts from lobbyist Jack Abrahamoff(sp?) When the republicans took control in 1994, things seem to get a little better, but history seems to be repeating itself. Now we have a republican controlled congress doing exactly the same things they bitched the dem controlled congress was doing in the Reagan years, only this time they are doing it at a much larger scale, and making themselves look bad in the spotlight of it. The GOP is inches away from losing support and control.

In this fight we have winners and losers. The winners can be anyone depending on the party and the losers... well just the same. The question is should the american public allow the GOP to maintain control on all 3 branches of the government, or should we toss them out and have a mix control and hope something gets done. The republicans want you to think this election is based solely on local issues. That is mistake #1 because it isn't just local issues. The war in IRAQ is the highest single reason most people are going to vote. They are either for it or against it. If you hate the war and want to see the troops come home you are probably going to vote democrat. If you are happy about seeing our service men and women murdered everyday over the cause of terrorism, and actually believe we need to be there, with no end in sight then you will probably vote Republican.

However who are the lessor of both evils. That all depends on how much evil you can tolerate. The dems want you to believe they can put an end to the war if they are put in control. Maybe they can maybe they can't we don't know until they get in... However, I doubt the war will end no matter which party has control. According to Bush it is no bodies decision but his. Mr. Pres you are riding a high and mighty cloud. Not too mention bragging a week before the election that the Repubs will win regardless of what polls say otherwise. So my next question is, if repubs are stating vicotyr before the election does this mean that voter issues are already predicted. Are the machines rigged... has someone been paid off? I think declaring a victory as FACT before an election takes places just screams deep down inside... yep the vote is rigged. And if the vote is rigged, Hypothetically speaking, was does that say for democracy?

Lets face facts we know two things.

1. The republican machine will stoop to any level to get their comrades elected... The dems will pretty much do the same. However, whom has done more mud-slinging and used racisim as a campaign stopper? Republicans. In TN, the republican national committe released an ad with white girls saying they love dating black men, and that they would love to date DEMOCRAT hopeful Harold Ford, who happens to be black. They even went onto say he has dated more white women than black women. Now, the only reason you would do this in TN is hopes to rally the southern racist vote. In the south they haven't evolved as much, and racism plays a heavy roll in elections. Now what do you think of a politician or political party whom would stoop that low? Personally anyone who uses race to discourage a canidate, intimidate a canidate, or uses it to win an election has no place in my book.

2. This will be a heavily contested election if any type of issue arises. With groups like VideoTheVote.org and other voting commisions ready to pounce this could easily be one of the most sought after and hottest elections since Kerry v Bush in 2004.

I will add one more thing... Americans look on issues facing the country today. Between this and the war, coupled with illegal immigration will probably be the leading issues, and will most likely cause a lot of GOP members to fight tooth and nail for thier seats in government. Any government official whom thinks this election is about local issues is sorely mistaken and needs to have his head removed from their ass.

Now one question I have to ask...

If the democrats win control, and I say if, Do you think they will move to impeach president Bush? I think no, but the discussion has come up. So what are you thoughts on this question as well as the whole US vote in general and tell us your predictions.

Do you think the Democrats will gain control or the Repubs will maintain? Also tell us why you think one or the other.

[Dropper]

Both parties will do anything to win. They are not much different from each other. We, as a country, I think, need to move away from the 2 party system. I look at my ballot and I see a tax and spend, pro abortion, grow the government at any rate possible liberal. And THAT'S the republican.

We need choices and right now we have none. We need a couple or three good "3rd parties". Until that happens we are gonna have the same mess that we are in this election happen every 2 or 4 years...

I think that the GOP will lose the House (probably not the Senate) on Tueday. They deserve it. And, no, I don't think there will be impeachment hearings on Bush. However inept he may be, I really don't think that his actions as president have risen to the level of criminal. I don't think that the democrats really think so either.

[LouCipherr]

Look at that, Dj - someone who can admit something you can't. Both partiest are crap. :lol:


Here's how I look at it:

1) Both parties suck, and they're both corrupt, neither any better than the other. If you're involved in "politics" you can't be trusted, no matter what your party affiliation is.

2) Voting in the US is a complete waste of time. You can get a republican to replace a democrat in any office (or vise-versa) and guess what'll change for you and me and the average working-class people in the US? Nothing. Not a goddamn thing. Go ahead, prove me wrong.

Oh, that's right.. you can't.

This country was bought and sold a looong time ago, and a few days where they say they're having an "election" is just to give you the "illusion" that the people of the US actually matter and to make us think that our votes really 'count' to make this country a better place.. well, from way back when as far back as I can remember, nothing has ever changed no matter who was elected - not for the average citizen.

If it makes you feel better about yourself, go have fun pulling those levers, playing on those computers, and filling out those absentee ballots. I'll be at home playing Battlefield 1942 on my computer - which is more engaging than anything having to do with politics - and when it's all said and done? Guess what? You'll still have lying thieves in office, regardless of their party affiliation... and then the complaints about government start again until the next election.. then someone will cry the ballots weren't counted right 'cause they're a sore loser.. then there will be more voter fraud controversy, people will feel cheated and that "their" leader really won but because of some kind of voting booth error, they didn't. Then we'll spend the next 2-4 years saying how this person shouldn't have been elected because someone cheated the system...

hey.... waaaaaait a second! That sounds like a repeat of the past five or so elections we've held here, eh?

Enjoy the illusion that you matter while it lasts, 'cause sooner or later, it won't. I have better things to worry about than bitter old men bickering with other bitter old men (and women too, not leaving them out) about who is right and who is wrong when they don't give one fu*k about anything or anyone but themselves. None of it makes a lick of difference. If you think it does, you've already bought into the lies.

Sorry folks, that's just the way it is.

As dennis miller always says, "That's just my opinion, I could be wrong" (the sad part is, I'm not, and that's what angers me the most)

[Dropper]

Exactly, as it currently stands no one is going to be a winner on Tuesday, besides whoever gets to sit in their house or senate seat.

The more I think about it the more I think that the country should move to a more parliamentary system. A coalition government might make a lot more sense than what we have today...

[MinionZombie]

I like the South Park theory - voting for the lesser of two evils, even if they're both a douche or a turd...

As for 2 party system, on one hand it's good, here in the UK we have an absolute myriad of political parties. 3 main ones - Labour (booooooo!!! :mad:), Conservatives (not always the best, but they're historically been the best - e.g. led us through World War 2 with Winston Churchill, they also had the first - and currently only female Prime Minister), Liberal Democrats (amalgamation of the Liberal Party and the Social Democrats happened about a century ago, the last time either of them was in power).

Then there's:

The Green Party (tree hugging is all they seem to do)
The UK Independent Party (last I heard was still being led by Kilroy ... an ex-talk show host and all-round plonker/twat)
British National Party (borderline/flat out racists who are mostly living 50 years in the past and are scared of non-white people, but hide behind an image of "just caring about traditional British roots - a worthy and just cause in itself - but when associated with these scumbags?...ewww)
Legalise Cannibis Alliance (seriously)
Monster Raving Loony Party (again ... seriously)

Annnnnnnnd there's a bunch more...seriously. :eek::|

The Liberals will never get into power, so all they manage to do is take about 20% of votes away from the real game - which is always between Labour and Conservative.

Basically what happens in British politics:

Labour comes in, throws a shedload of money at all their problems in the hope the troubles vanish ... when they don't, they need more money, so tax the skins of the British public - and not the rich British public either.

Then they get completely out of control (currently happening right now) and the country needs some real control so the Conservatives get voted in, but because the country is in such trouble, they spend the majority of their time in office fixing the problems Labour caused. By the time they actually get around to trying to make their own decisions, the party has fallen into "absolute power corrupts absolutely" territory and they all start in-fighting like a bunch of little bitches.

The public gets sick of this and votes in "New" Labour (i.e. Same Old Labour) who promise a fantasy land of golden opportunities and "things can only get better" ... until their first term is up and they're re-elected for a second term and things start collapsing as they're run out of money and start losing the plot completely.

Labour are currently in their - FIRST - 3rd term in a row, and from the offset it's been a complete and utter disaster. Every week there is another f*ck up they're tried to hide, or there's another abusive stealth tax being brought in (usually under the guise of Health & Safety, Political Correctness, the Environment or Road Safety ... oh, and Anti-Terrorism - all things that Labour love ... in reality, they just want money and don't actually care about these issues used to cloak the reality).

With that in mind, no wonder the last stint the Conservatives were in power lasted for 18 years. Thatcher may be lampooned as some Iron Devil Lady, but at least the gal had more balls than Tony Blair et al, she got sh*t done most of the time and didn't govern by tabloid. Guaranteed, in a couple of decades people will look back in hindsight on the (current) Labour gubment and view it as a total disaster - guaranteed 100%.

Labour's support is currently at a 20 year low, they're losing their grip fast, all the Conservatives need to do is keep climbing the rope slowly but surely and we're looking at a new government - and hopefully, most importantly - and end (at least for a good chunk of time) to the utter retardation and downright violent silliness of Labour's policies (for instance, now they want to charge road users £1.34 per mile...and I'm not kidding).

*sigh*

[Khardis]

Its going to be a tight election. But if the momentum has anything to do with it (and this late int he game you look at momentum not numbers) then the Dems are in for an upset or at least a partial victory. Because Momentum has shown that the dems are losing ground and very fast.

[LouCipherr]

I think the bottom line is, democracy doesn't work - at least not forever. It's a temporary solution.

I found a quote about it that is so true it's scary. Take a look:

“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship.

“The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

From Bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage.”

With the US being 210 years old (1776-2006), we're not far, folks. Where do you think we're at in that list already? I say complacency & apathy.

[coma]

See the film "Street Fight". Its a doc about a race in Newark for Mayor . Incumbent Sharpe James Vs. Young Idealist Corey Booker. They are both democtats but couldn't be more different. Sharpe is a Party Machine Boss who would do literally anyhting to remain in power. I mention this film to illustrate that all politicions are NOT the same.
I don't believe that the parties are the same either. Nor do I believe that the early 1990s scandals in the Democratic house are anything remotely close in the magnitude to the corruption in todays GOP controlled branches. To compare stealing stamps from work to the patriot act, torture, Jack Abramov, and Oil companies writing Energy laws that are then rubberstamped is lunacy.
Oh yeah, the really big scandal in the early 90s from the dem house was they they were overdrafting checks from the house banks. Nowadays we have overraft protection and most of us have done it. It wasn't stealing. It doesn't even compare to Habeus Corpus.
My opinion is that the Dem party leadership is way more connected to the oft forgotten ideals of many democratic voters than it has been in a long time.

If the "conservatives" control every branch of Govt ( a virtual dictatorship) and still refuse to pass conservative platforms, they are not conservative. Who do they represent? They aren't liberal (no social programs), they aren't conservative (fiscally irresponsible, No personal privacy, soft on Terrorists. re: BinLadin). They are Puppets of the Oil and defense industries existing only to mainain power.

Now, I don't pretend that the Democrats are all that awesome either, but we only have 2 parities and I tend to favor a more left view. We do need a few more parties. A right one, Conservative, Moderate, Liberal and real left wing party. There are no Leftists amongst the representatives from the Dem party and anyone who tries to say that knows absolutley nothing about political definitions.
The closet to 3rd parties was Reform Party (gone). Green (inneffective). Marijuana Legalization.
Working families party is a local party that does OK due to cross party affiliation.

[DjfunkmasterG]

Look at that, Dj - someone who can admit something you can't. Both partiest are crap. :lol:


Here's how I look at it:

1) Both parties suck, and they're both corrupt, neither any better than the other. If you're involved in "politics" you can't be trusted, no matter what your party affiliation is.

2) Voting in the US is a complete waste of time. You can get a republican to replace a democrat in any office (or vise-versa) and guess what'll change for you and me and the average working-class people in the US? Nothing. Not a goddamn thing. Go ahead, prove me wrong.

Oh, that's right.. you can't.

This country was bought and sold a looong time ago, and a few days where they say they're having an "election" is just to give you the "illusion" that the people of the US actually matter and to make us think that our votes really 'count' to make this country a better place.. well, from way back when as far back as I can remember, nothing has ever changed no matter who was elected - not for the average citizen.

If it makes you feel better about yourself, go have fun pulling those levers, playing on those computers, and filling out those absentee ballots. I'll be at home playing Battlefield 1942 on my computer - which is more engaging than anything having to do with politics - and when it's all said and done? Guess what? You'll still have lying thieves in office, regardless of their party affiliation... and then the complaints about government start again until the next election.. then someone will cry the ballots weren't counted right 'cause they're a sore loser.. then there will be more voter fraud controversy, people will feel cheated and that "their" leader really won but because of some kind of voting booth error, they didn't. Then we'll spend the next 2-4 years saying how this person shouldn't have been elected because someone cheated the system...

hey.... waaaaaait a second! That sounds like a repeat of the past five or so elections we've held here, eh?

Enjoy the illusion that you matter while it lasts, 'cause sooner or later, it won't. I have better things to worry about than bitter old men bickering with other bitter old men (and women too, not leaving them out) about who is right and who is wrong when they don't give one fu*k about anything or anyone but themselves. None of it makes a lick of difference. If you think it does, you've already bought into the lies.

Sorry folks, that's just the way it is.

As dennis miller always says, "That's just my opinion, I could be wrong" (the sad part is, I'm not, and that's what angers me the most)

Actually if you read my initial post you would have noted I didn't really endorse either party. In fact I mention that the repubs and dems will stoop to any level.


Its going to be a tight election. But if the momentum has anything to do with it (and this late int he game you look at momentum not numbers) then the Dems are in for an upset or at least a partial victory. Because Momentum has shown that the dems are losing ground and very fast.


Stop watching FOX news they will always show Dems losing. Check a real poll like CNN or USA today whom remain an affixed to anyone party. They show, clearly the DEMS probably taking control. BTW here is your momentum

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/06/election.issues/index.html

[Khardis]

Actually if you read my initial post you would have noted I didn't really endorse either party. In fact I mention that the repubs and dems will stoop to any level.




Stop watching FOX news they will always show Dems losing. Check a real poll like CNN or USA today whom remain an affixed to anyone party. They show, clearly the DEMS probably taking control. BTW here is your momentum

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/06/election.issues/index.html


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=afnDEaAF0Ihk&refer=home


Democrats Have Narrower Lead in Election, Polls Find (Update1)

By Nadine Elsibai

Nov. 5 (Bloomberg) -- The contest for control of Congress has tightened in the days leading up to the Nov. 7 vote with the Democrats' margin narrowing, two polls showed.

Democrats hold a 51 percent to 45 percent edge among likely voters, down from a 14-point margin two weeks ago, according to an ABC News/Washington Post poll. A separate poll by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press showed a similar decrease in support for Democrats, who now have a 47 percent to 43 percent advantage over Republicans compared with 50 percent to 39 percent two weeks ago.

I dont watch CCCPNN or MSocialistNBC or any of the liberal media outfits, they only show what the libs want to see, and I only occasionally just watch Fox. Mostly because its fair broadcasting. however I didnt get that the lead is reversing and the momentum is favoring the R's form Fox, I got it from Connecticut Local Politics which is run by insane liberal nutroots activists. Even they cant hide the truth.

in 2 week the Dems suppport dropped by a GIGANTIC % These races are going to be extreamily tight. I think that the Looney left will pick up a few house and senate seats, but I think ultimatly control of the Senate will remain with the R's and the dems may squeak into power in the House, or be only a few seats out of power. Either way it will be incredibly close. Which bodes pretty poorly for the Democrats who have been trying to tell us since June that this election is in the bag.

[LouCipherr]

Actually if you read my initial post you would have noted I didn't really endorse either party. In fact I mention that the repubs and dems will stoop to any level.

I never stated you did in that post, Dj. Go back and read my post again. I was just stating my opinion on things.

You're always hoping the dems win because "things will be better" and the country is in "better shape under dems" - this is what you always say to me, I'm just continuing that dialouge.

My question is, WHAT will get better? Nothing for me as an average citizen. To be quite honest, I don't give one sh*t what we look like to other countries. Foreign policies to me, as an average citizen of the US, doesn't mean dick. They can say we suck all they want, they can hate us with all their might - doesn't matter to me 'cause I don't live there and they don't live here, but not a damn thing will change after the elections. Just more liars and idiots in office.

[Eyebiter]

With the widespread introduction of electronic voting machines... you think the Republicans will lose the election?

:lol:


Ever look at who sits on the board of Diebold?

[coma]

My question is, WHAT will get better? Nothing for me as an average citizen. To be quite honest, I don't give one sh*t what we look like to other countries. Foreign policies to me, as an average citizen of the US, doesn't mean dick. They can say we suck all they want, they can hate us with all their might - doesn't matter to me 'cause I don't live there and they don't live here, but not a damn thing will change after the elections. Just more liars and idiots in office.
The exception to that is when they come and blow us the f**k up. As an average citizen that aspect of Foreign Policy is pretty important to me.

You may be right about nothing changing. For me, I would rather attempt a change than just leave it where it is. A change means maybe, no Change means things will absolutely remain the same.

The dems are running on a health care/ Insurance reform platform (particularly locally). If that happens, for one, will be very happy and relieved. There is no chance for me to stop getting screwed the way it is.

[DjfunkmasterG]

The exception to that is when they come and blow us the f**k up. As an average citizen that aspect of Foreign Policy is pretty important to me.

You may be right about nothing changing. For me, I would rather attempt a change than just leave it where it is. A change means maybe, no Change means things will absolutely remain the same.

The dems are running on a health care/ Insurance reform platform (particularly locally). If that happens, for one, will be very happy and relieved. There is no chance for me to stop getting screwed the way it is.


I am with Coma on this. Foreign policy means a lot and is one issue that can either make or break homeland security and global terrorism. If you have 20 Foreign countries/nations that hate your guts then your chance for being the receiver of a terrorist attack increases. Since the current bozo in the oval office would rather give everyone the finger that doesn't stand good with me. I would rather be friendly with everyone, and have everyone try to work together as opposed to blowing each other up. If no one is willing to give that a try maybe we need someone who can or will.

It maynot mean much to you Lou, but in the long wrong good foreign policy benefits everyone... bad foreign policy can wreak havoc on families, the economy and citizens in general. You may think the opposite but it is something clearly needed.

[LouCipherr]

The exception to that is when they come and blow us the f**k up. As an average citizen that aspect of Foreign Policy is pretty important to me.

I understand what you're saying coma, but there's a problem: they've already done that, and will do it again anyway regardless of who is in power and regardless of our association or relationship with foreign governments. We could be on great terms with every country in the world, but it just takes one fanatical fraction who disagrees with a countries policies to cause issues - this will never change. You can never please all of the people all the time - and the ones you can't please, are the ones that will eventually rise up and bite you in the ass.

Remember, it's no safer in the US right now than it ever has been in the past - it's just more difficult to get on a plane.

[coma]

...I would rather be friendly with everyone, and have everyone try to work together as opposed to blowing each other up. If no one is willing to give that a try maybe we need someone who can or will.

It maynot mean much to you Lou, but in the long wrong good foreign policy benefits everyone... bad foreign policy can wreak havoc on families, the economy and citizens in general. You may think the opposite but it is something clearly needed.

Also, To be threatening to the enemies and actually be believable when you say "Attack us, we will destroy you and win". Which is not the case except for the destroy you part (and even thats becoming doubtful). North Korea treats us like a Fruit Basket because we are out of juice.

And the trillions spent on Iraq means no $$ for anyhting domestic. If you wanted to do something good, you just can't. Endless war also gives a pres liscence to do whatever the hell he wants perpetually.


I understand what you're saying coma, but there's a problem: they've already done that, and will do it again anyway regardless of who is in power and regardless of our association or relationship with foreign governments. We could be on great terms with every country in the world, but it just takes one fanatical fraction who disagrees with a countries policies to cause issues - this will never change. You can never please all of the people all the time - and the ones you can't please, are the ones that will eventually rise up and bite you in the ass.

Remember, it's no safer in the US right now than it ever has been in the past - it's just more difficult to get on a plane.
Hense the need for a chance for change. If I hear "they hate our freedom" again I am gonna s**t blood.

And I kinda agree with you, except that I am a pessimist, but occasionally I give in to my deeply hidden idealism and my desire for something better. I have a few serious health issues and got screwed big time. I looked up a lot of the reasons for my screjob and I was shocked to see they came from a certain affiliation (mostly). I thought it was a more general politition in the pocket. But it really wasn't. Much of this is more of a state issue, but I am pissed and I want the dicks who are screwing me over fired. I don't believe in the "devil you know" theory. I have to hope for something better, without hope I have literally nothing.

When geo comes to stump at Ground Zero he is many, many feet away from any spectators. Why? It's not for hating republicans. We have senetors, Mayors, Govenor, Local officials. It for heckling. The man is hated by 90% of New York City residents because we all blame him for 911. Not as conspiracy. For not trying to find Osama. For ingnoring Afghanastan. And for not giving a crap about us unless it's politically expedient. So Anybody who buddies up to him and the man himself are pesona non grata around here.

[_liam_]

ah i wouldnt worry about democracy falling, i personally dont think weve reached the point where we can say we have a democracy. we have a sort of representative democracy, where once every four years you get to choose who will tell you what to do for the next half decade.


===UK centric blag begins====

the british public hasn't tolerated a dictatorship or authoritarian govt. since the middle ages, can't see it happening any time soon.

lol MZ always with the red bashing, remember the tories put millions of people out of work & sacked our fossil fuel industries, sent hundreds to die for the falkland islands (surely a million times less worthy than iraq) - sent hundreds to die in iraq for that matter - just so we could keep our post imperial protection racket with kuwait going, commissioned the millennium dome then bizarrely blamed labour for trying to clean it up, tore the country's public transport system up (and now blame labour for privatising it), then youve got allllll the drug & sex scandals that we know and love the tories for.

lol sorry for goin on one there, i know youre not a tory boy or anything, but just think they were so much worse than new labour even when they were sorted out - but now theyre in chaos, 4 leaders in 3 years or whatever, i think theyre out of touch with reality and will screw us up something rotten if we vote em in. which may well happen.

although i'll say this; GO BORIS. always got time for that man.

plus theyd sort out the drugs laws, i like this being able to smoke pot in the garden without being arrested thing :D

==========UK CENTRIC BLAG ENDS==========

but yeah, sorry for hijacking this thread a bit!

america seems lodged in a similar game of neo con tennis, you really don't want the dim witted puppet of corrupt oil magnates running the 68th empire, but john kerry seems to have a habit of saying stupid, alienating stuff (the recent "study or go to iraq" being a classic), and it'd take a spectacular achievement on his part or a brutal failure on his enemies for it to go any further, but then there's been so many brutal failures on bush's part, and i may well be wrong but his approval figures aren't critical? (or are they? i have to keep up a bit more)

as for foreign policy, SOME diplomacy wouldnt go amiss, that whole "with us or against us" thing was kinda doomed to failure seeing as most nations would rather not get involved in these messy middle east debacles cos, as you say, it compromises homeland security more than it assists.

that said you used to fanny about with black ops in chile and nicaragua and panama and were rarely attacked then, why is it so different these days? i sometimes think it's not as bad as all that, there's been like, one major attack in britain since the iranian embassy incident in '80/'81, and 9/11 is the only major incident in america i can recall, not exactly as persistent as say, IRA or ETA, and not really deserving of the "war on freedom" handle they get.

ah who knows. just do the right thing, US voters, whatever you feel that may be...

[coma]

that said you used to fanny about with black ops in chile and nicaragua and panama and were rarely attacked then, why is it so different these days? i sometimes think it's not as bad as all that, there's been like, one major attack in britain since the iranian embassy incident in '80/'81, and 9/11 is the only major incident in america i can recall, not exactly as persistent as say, IRA or ETA, and not really deserving of the "war on freedom" handle they get.

ah who knows. just do the right thing, US voters, whatever you feel that may be...
WTC 93, Many Embassy Attacks, The USS Cole. Also Robert Kennedy was assasinated by an Palestinan Fundamentalist. Also there was an major attack planned on the Fulton Street Subway station in Brooklyn that was thwarted. That would've been very high on the casuality scale and probably more desturctive for the day to day lives of New Yorkers because it is a major Hub. My friend lived across the street from them. Nice. Why are they always trying to bomb us, and occasionally LA? I know why, money, but give it a rest you lunantics.
I still don't think it's worth throwing all of our ideals and rights in the toilet over. Nothing is.

[HLS]

Look at that, Dj - someone who can admit something you can't. Both partiest are crap. :lol:


Here's how I look at it:

1) Both parties suck, and they're both corrupt, neither any better than the other. If you're involved in "politics" you can't be trusted, no matter what your party affiliation is.

2) Voting in the US is a complete waste of time. You can get a republican to replace a democrat in any office (or vise-versa) and guess what'll change for you and me and the average working-class people in the US? Nothing. Not a goddamn thing. Go ahead, prove me wrong.

Oh, that's right.. you can't.

This country was bought and sold a looong time ago, and a few days where they say they're having an "election" is just to give you the "illusion" that the people of the US actually matter and to make us think that our votes really 'count' to make this country a better place.. well, from way back when as far back as I can remember, nothing has ever changed no matter who was elected - not for the average citizen.

If it makes you feel better about yourself, go have fun pulling those levers, playing on those computers, and filling out those absentee ballots. I'll be at home playing Battlefield 1942 on my computer - which is more engaging than anything having to do with politics - and when it's all said and done? Guess what? You'll still have lying thieves in office, regardless of their party affiliation... and then the complaints about government start again until the next election.. then someone will cry the ballots weren't counted right 'cause they're a sore loser.. then there will be more voter fraud controversy, people will feel cheated and that "their" leader really won but because of some kind of voting booth error, they didn't. Then we'll spend the next 2-4 years saying how this person shouldn't have been elected because someone cheated the system...

hey.... waaaaaait a second! That sounds like a repeat of the past five or so elections we've held here, eh?

Enjoy the illusion that you matter while it lasts, 'cause sooner or later, it won't. I have better things to worry about than bitter old men bickering with other bitter old men (and women too, not leaving them out) about who is right and who is wrong when they don't give one fu*k about anything or anyone but themselves. None of it makes a lick of difference. If you think it does, you've already bought into the lies.

Sorry folks, that's just the way it is.

As dennis miller always says, "That's just my opinion, I could be wrong" (the sad part is, I'm not, and that's what angers me the most)


Your first point is why I do not vote. None of them care about us or about the issues at hand. Its all about power. They will say whatever it takes to get into office.

[LouCipherr]

I agree coma - we should've not ignored the person who started this sh*t in the first place. Instead, now, we're in Iraq. Go figure.


Foreign policy means a lot and is one issue that can either make or break homeland security and global terrorism. If you have 20 Foreign countries/nations that hate your guts then your chance for being the receiver of a terrorist attack increases. Since the current bozo in the oval office would rather give everyone the finger that doesn't stand good with me. I would rather be friendly with everyone, and have everyone try to work together as opposed to blowing each other up. If no one is willing to give that a try maybe we need someone who can or will.

So, we become firendly with everyone - what does that mean, exactly? Does it mean when a country stands up in our face and is defiant, do we just sit back and say "whatever" like Slick Willy? Or do we over-react like that idiot Bush?

Even if you are 'friendly' with every country in the world and kiss their ass to no end, that does not guarantee you "homeland security" - it only takes one fanatical group to f*ck it all up, and there's thousands of them out there waiting to pounce on their opportunity, regardless if they country they're from gets along with us.

It didn't benefit the thousands of people in the world trade centers having good foreign relations now did it? We weren't hated then like we are now were we? All of this hatred of america started after that point because of Bush (another flippin' idiot) - but it proves my point. Having good relationships with other countries from a political standpoint is good because it gives the politicans something to talk about, but realistically, does it really matter? From an economic standpoint, yes, but i'm referring to this terrorist and homeland security angle. I understand the economic function of relations with other countries, but that's not the topic at hand (at least it's not what i'm discussing right now - we can touch on that later if you wish to discuss).

If we were friendly with every country in the world, would it stop terrorism? Would we suddenly have no need for homeland security? Nope. It'll be the same sh*t, different day, only the sh*t is deeper. Sure, everyone is "working together" - but can that stop terrorism or terrorists? It never has in the history of any country ever, period.

It wouldn't stop these other countries from doing whatever the hell they want either - it only gives these bozo idiotic politicans something to brag about. "well, we get along with <insert country name here> now, so we have nothing to worry about." Oh, really? and I bet every one of those politicians that would say that would try and take credit for it too.

Sorry man, I don't buy the BS, but apparently a lot of people do in this country. I see through all of the lies. Most only see through the ones they don't agree with.

Now, if we want to discuss the economic benefits of good foreign relations, that's totally different. I just wanted to touch on relationships with other countries and the false idea it would help to stave terrorist attacks and improve this so-called "homeland security." Besides, calling anything involving the US 'secure' is a joke - take a look at the mexican border. Yeah, we're "secure" allright :lol:

"Homeland Security" is a fu*king joke. You can call me an idiot for saying that all you want, but what will you say when the next attack on US soil happens? Will it be "well, it was Bush's fault"? will it be "well, it's because Bush screwed up our relationship with that country that attacked us"?

[_liam_]

WTC 93, Many Embassy Attacks, The USS Cole. Also Robert Kennedy was assasinated by an Palestinan Fundamentalist. Also there was an major attack planned on the Fulton Street Subway station in Brooklyn that was thwarted. That would've been very high on the casuality scale and probably more desturctive for the day to day lives of New Yorkers because it is a major Hub. My friend lived across the street from them. Nice. Why are they always trying to bomb us, and occasionally LA? I know why, money, but give it a rest you lunantics.
I still don't think it's worth throwing all of our ideals and rights in the toilet over. Nothing is.

ah good points indeed, but i think they still fall into the realm of sporadic incidents rather than a consistent campaign. tit for tat rather than indiscriminate killing. awful things will happen, doesn't mean it's a war as such.

[Adrenochrome]

I'm going with Hammy...

http://www.comics.com//comics/hedge/archive/images/hedge2666350061106.gif

[LouCipherr]

I think Hammy would make a better president than a dem or a repub! :lol: :lol:

[MinionZombie]

"Complacency & Apathy" most definately. I've never seen so much complacency from the British before - and we're a complacent people traditionally! Also, add drunken-ness to that combo, because I'd say a lot of people in the UK (where binge drinking is out of control) get pissed up to forget about their life troubles - which are induced by the gubment (especially this past 10 years when binging has really taken off).

Complacency, apathy and drunken-ness ... no wonder Labour passed the 24 hour drinking law - trying to get the country good and lickered up so they're too hungover to notice the damage being done. :shifty:

[zombie04]

If you are happy about seeing our service men and women murdered everyday over the cause of terrorism, and actually believe we need to be there, with no end in sight then you will probably vote Republican.



Ok, here's where I couldn't disagree with you more. In your fantasy world, Republicans like seeing our soldiers killed for a cause you don't support and are evil in every way. When, in the real world, we don't like seeing our soldiers killed, we want the war in Iraq to end as soon as possible, but we believe the end result will be justified. That's all I'm saying on the matter.

[DjfunkmasterG]

Ok, here's where I couldn't disagree with you more. In your fantasy world, Republicans like seeing our soldiers killed for a cause you don't support and are evil in every way. When, in the real world, we don't like seeing our soldiers killed, we want the war in Iraq to end as soon as possible, but we believe the end result will be justified. That's all I'm saying on the matter.

They must like it because they did nothing to give them the protective gear they needed and once Suddam was ousted we should have packed up and left. There is no other reason to be there. They guy is in jail and was on trial for a year. Why should we be there. We did what was needed and that was that.

What other reason was there for hanging out this long?

[zombie04]

What other reason was there for hanging out this long?

Making sure the country doesn't fail and get taken over by some its neighboring countries.

[DjfunkmasterG]

Making sure the country doesn't fail and get taken over by some its neighboring countries.


So us taking it over was ok... There is no logic in that statement man. Seriously we got him out of power, put him on trial. We really needed 100,000 troops to secure a country. No one is trying to take it over, hell they want us out hence why nearly 3000 troops have been killed in 2+ years.

I mean lets get serious that country was at best a minor to medium threat. N. Korea on the other hand is a bigger threat we should be dealing with.

[_liam_]

i dont think his statement was crazy, there is a danger iraq could be taken over by a government either sympathetic to or engaged in terrorism, the recent election of hamas is one thing that indicates a rising popularity for such groups & movements in the middle east.

also i wouldnt be suprised if an iranian element was funding some groups.

but anyway, the place is in a mess, there seems to be a lot of seriously ill will against the west (and rightly so in some cases), a dodgy government could take over, but the question begs to be asked; what good are our forces doing over there? is there anything they can do to salvage the damage that has been done?

[coma]

If the country was a true democracy, and most of the people can't stand us, the logical conclusion is a country unfriendly to the US. The only option to insure a friendly govt is to have a puppet govt ala Diem In Vietnam, who ended up dead in a US backed Coup.
The US only supprts Democracy whe it is convienient. witness the backing of Coups against democracys unsympathetic to the US and support of Military dictatorships. Like Non stop from the 50s through the 80s and beyond.

Iran apparently is backing Militia groups .
I might have the sects backwards so excuse me...
Sdaam is a Sunni, of the Minority in Iraq. The Sunnis fight because they are pissed (and afraid) about losing power.
The SHiites are a majority and Iran is Shiite, so the alliance is A natural. The US removed the Sadaam and Baath party creating a path for an Iraq/Iran cooperation. That did not in any way exist before the invasion. While Saadm basically talked a lot of S**t, Iran HAS directly threatened the US.

Bush didnt even know what a Sunni and a Shiite was before the invasion.
Thanks Asshat.:eek:

and the other reason being
HALIBURTON


and, of course, making the US safe for a wonderful constitution free Future.
Awesome!

[Terran]

If I hear "they hate our freedom" again I am gonna s**t blood.



Im glad Im not the only one tired of that ridiculous comment....




Remember, it's no safer in the US right now than it ever has been in the past - it's just more difficult to get on a plane.


Totally.