More border crap, you people need it.

[Tied2thetracks]

Democrats won, we saw it coming, lesser of 2 evils. We must stop amnesty, if you are not a USA citizen please keep out of this. Amnesty is on the way.

Libs will not fund the fence, the crappy USA job market just got worse.
North american union just got stronger, hope you are willing to learn French.

[Adrenochrome]

:rolleyes:
this post offends me as I am not into MORE political discussion.
I am a regular poster and shouldn't have to read other people's opinions on politics (or anything else).

[Eyebiter]

The United States simply doesn't have the political will required to secure the entire US/Mexico border.

We are faced with an endless supply of folks from the third world looking for a better life. Too many US agricultural and corporate business interests rely on exploiting illegal immigrant labor. Both Republican and Democrat politicians seek to benefit from the situation.

Mexico knows the more citizens they send north, the more influence they will have on US future policy. Factor in the Catholic faith discouraging birth control and encouraging large families, and the fact that many hispanic women start having kids in their teenage years...

[Tied2thetracks]

You win, opinions are bad.

They are happy that they'er biggest export is thier poor. Thier economy's biggest boost it the money that is being sent across the borders.

[coma]

Democrats won, we saw it coming, lesser of 2 evils. We must stop amnesty, if you are not a USA citizen please keep out of this. Amnesty is on the way.

Libs will not fund the fence, the crappy USA job market just got worse.
North american union just got stronger, hope you are willing to learn French.

While I agree with portions of that I would point out that the GOP did not fully fund the fence. Part of Amnesty is Speaking English. That would be extremely postitive. I agree that the Job market sucks and anyone who says that South Amreican don't take jobs has not had to compete with them. The idea that they all get paid slave majors is just a lie. They get good paying construction jobs and do things like Be a chef, which is what I used to do but there are few jobs for the Americans for that. Plenty work for peanuts and that drives down wages. They also force us to put up with crap we would otherwise not have to put up with, labor equity wise.

You can't deport like 12 million (I think waaaay More) aliens. Oh pardon me, "undocumented workers". Christ I hate that. Does that exclude people with passports who overstay? I guess not because they are undocumented. I am in now way in favor of 12 Million plus from One place coming In droves, but what else is there to do? Make them pay taxes and get a goddamn drivers liscence and Insurance.

The fault lies with the gov who let it continue unabated for years (peaking in 2000). Its a combination of we are the world misguided Point of view and Big Profits and anti labor on the other side. Both really piss me off. If they let more people come here legally in the first place we might not have these problems. Its almost impossible to do that now

Why French? Do you mean many of us might have to lose to Canda, or that we have become so utterly lame that we will get defeated by the French Army?:) (sorry for the cheap joke)


:rolleyes:
this post offends me as I am not into MORE political discussion.
I am a regular poster and shouldn't have to read other people's opinions on politics (or anything else).
You ARE kidding, arent you Mr Opinionated?:D

[Cody]

lol yeah adreno!

[dmbfanintn]

folks looking for a better life. ...


Well, I don't know about y'all (in my best southern draw) but that's the very reason I am here. My ancestors came here form Germany for this very reason. It very well may be the reason many of you are Americans as well!

I have very unpopular views towards immigration and the direction this country is headed in that reagrd. Especially since that is the very basis on which this country was founded.

On the other hand, if you could go back and ask the Native Americans if boder control was important, they would probably feel differently! Just look at what OUR ancestors did to them!!

[Adrenochrome]

You ARE kidding, arent you Mr Opinionated?:D

Nope, I'm a "mostly Buddhist", pompous asshole. Big difference. ;)

[Tied2thetracks]

:rolleyes:
this post offends me as I am not into MORE political discussion.
I am a regular poster and shouldn't have to read other people's opinions on politics (or anything else).

YOU don't HAVE to read it. I am not clicking your mouse

[Adrenochrome]

I am not clicking your mouse

Come up and see me sometime, big boy...
http://www.lacoctelera.com/myfiles/jasoninternauta/Mae-west.jpg

NOTE: NOT baiting, just adding a little humor.

[Dropper]

I have very unpopular views towards immigration and the direction this country is headed in that reagrd. Especially since that is the very basis on which this country was founded.


I agree. I tend to be very conservative (not Republican, ugh) on many issues, but I think I am probably left of most dems when it comes to immigration.

I feel very strongly that people who want to come here for a better life should be able to. The only reason I think that there needs to be any border control in this day and age is that I am somewhat afraid that someone is going to sneak a nuke through our sponge of a border. That scares me.

What doesn't scare me are the hardworking men and women who are coming here truly looking for a better life. I don't really care if that means that they take their money and run back to wherever they are from when they're done or not...

[Tricky]

Hell the world & his brother are descending on our little island,it was in the news the other week that even AMERICANS are claiming asylum over here to escape the "persecution of the ghettos"
I dont know the extent of the problem over there & i wont pretend to understand it,but something is wrong over here when for every 1500 immigrants coming into Britain,1000 british born citizens are leaving,it makes me sad :(

[Tied2thetracks]

Borders,language, and culture. I'd push for morals, but I know thats just insanity.

[Adrenochrome]

Borders,language, and culture. I'd push for morals, but I know thats just insanity.

Borders, language, and culture is what keeps the humans at each others throat.
Admit it, Humans are a weak minded, self centered, selfish, greedy (insert whatever here).
We all share the same ball of mud, but everybody wants to tell everyone else how to live on it.

Humans, man...**picks nose**....they creep me out.

[Tied2thetracks]

I admit it, I'm t2thetracks and i am human. There still is a bedter way to do things.

[dmbfanintn]

Borders, language, and culture is what keeps the humans at each others throat.
Admit it, Humans are a weak minded, self centered, selfish, greedy (insert whatever here).
We all share the same ball of mud, but everybody wants to tell everyone else how to live on it.
Humans, man...**picks nose**....they creep me out.

Never has there been a more true post on HPOTD!

[Danny]

Borders, language, and culture is what keeps the humans at each others throat.
Admit it, Humans are a weak minded, self centered, selfish, greedy (insert whatever here).
We all share the same ball of mud, but everybody wants to tell everyone else how to live on it.

Humans, man...**picks nose**....they creep me out.


i agree, and correct me if im wrong but isnt this at least the 2nd ,possibly 3rd thread by tied2the tracks bitching about immigrints?
people are people, we set up borders ourselves, can you blame people wanting a better way of life for themselves, cus in every one of our eyes, we come before anyone else when it comes to survival, just cus we are comfortable in our areas doesnt mean we we can judge them for wanting what we have.
and unless youve had it so bad youve had to leave your country you cant bitch.

[Khardis]

Its pretty tragic, but the Republicans arent entirely guiltless in this situation. Bush is rolling over and playing good dog for the liberals. I am just mad that the Senate wont be able ot block it again now that the Pubs are out. Good thing I speak decent spanish.


Borders, language, and culture is what keeps the humans at each others throat.
Admit it, Humans are a weak minded, self centered, selfish, greedy (insert whatever here).
We all share the same ball of mud, but everybody wants to tell everyone else how to live on it.

Humans, man...**picks nose**....they creep me out.

Then you dont mind converting to Islam? Because thats the eventual result ask the French of Dutch. We arent as cursed, because we will be speaking mostly Spanish, but I dont want the US to look like Mexico economically or culturally.

[Adrenochrome]

Its pretty tragic, but the Republicans arent entirely guiltless in this situation. Bush is rolling over and playing good dog for the liberals. I am just mad that the Senate wont be able ot block it again now that the Pubs are out. Good thing I speak decent spanish.



Then you dont mind converting to Islam?

Where do you get these ideas of yours? How could you possibly get that from what I said? Nowhere in my post did I say, "By the way, I'm so very willing to bow to Allah!"?:rolleyes:
My God, man! Pull yourself together!
(NOTE to Khardis: this is NOT a bait post, so, rest your finger.)

[slickwilly13]

I have no problem with people coming here. As long as they do it legally and respect our laws. Too many don't.

[Khardis]

Where do you get these ideas of yours? How could you possibly get that from what I said? Nowhere in my post did I say, "By the way, I'm so very willing to bow to Allah!"?:rolleyes:
My God, man! Pull yourself together!
(NOTE to Khardis: this is NOT a bait post, so, rest your finger.)

You seem to indicate that you want open borders at least morally. If thats what you want then you must be willing to accept the consequences of that? Which will ultimatly be the same fate as much of Europe.

[dmbfanintn]

Its pretty tragic, but the Republicans arent entirely guiltless in this situation. Bush is rolling over and playing good dog for the liberals. I am just mad that the Senate wont be able ot block it again now that the Pubs are out. Good thing I speak decent spanish.



Then you dont mind converting to Islam? Because thats the eventual result ask the French of Dutch. We arent as cursed, because we will be speaking mostly Spanish, but I dont want the US to look like Mexico economically or culturally.

Khardis, do you honestly believe that all Americans will now be speaking Spanish and converting it Islam?

You are the one that should have the tin foil hat at the ready! Talk about whacked out comments!

[Khardis]

I have no problem with people coming here. As long as they do it legally and respect our laws. Too many don't.

I agree to an extent. I think we should reduce immigration from 3rd world countries and open the borders a little more to 1st world nations. If we are going to allow immigratns lets at least get the educated ones. We dont need to import the poor masses from around the world. We arent a socialist country yet, so it doesnt work out for them or us.

But if someone is willing to come over legally, get thie rpapers, pay thier dues and taxes and assimilate. I say welcome. Its this B.S. about coming over in droves of 1000s demanding that we change our ways and our government to fit thier needs. Thats BS.


Khardis, do you honestly believe that all Americans will now be speaking Spanish and converting it Islam?

You are the one that should have the tin foil hat at the ready! Talk about whacked out comments!

Hey, dont take my word for it. Read up on European issues. Theyre trying to institute Shari'a in France and the Netherlands. you cant travel in some parts of France or even England if youre White or Christian., and thats amazing considering its frickin Europe. They have African Muslims riots in France EVERY year.

[DjfunkmasterG]

This is another subject I agree on with you. Wow, I think I see a trend starting. If you don't earn your citizen ship like those before you did.... Legally, then you need to stay the f*ck in your own country.

[CivilDefense]

This is another subject I agree on with you. Wow, I think I see a trend starting. If you don't earn your citizen ship like those before you did.... Legally, then you need to stay the f*ck in your own country.

My grandfather beat the crap out of an english dock boss with a cant hook (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cant_Hook) and ran and stowed away on a ship headed for america. This was about 1890. Should I tell my family to go back to ireland now?

BTW am an american citizen living in canada.

[Danny]

damn stright, every human life is different and no two are the same, so you gonna exlcude and include only certain types every whcih way you try to go with this.

[DjfunkmasterG]

My grandfather beat the crap out of an english dock boss with a cant hook (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cant_Hook) and ran and stowed away on a ship headed for america. This was about 1890. Should I tell my family to go back to ireland now?

BTW am an american citizen living in canada.


DId he get his US citizen ship? DId he fight in war for this country? Before I go telling you to pack your bags (:lol:), I wanna see if he did something that shows his true american spirit. Know what I mean. I mean if he did something like obtaining his citizen ship or something that defined him as an american, then by all means WELCOME. However, just running across the rio grande and settling into an all spanish neighborhood doesn't cut it.


damn stright, every human life is different and no two are the same, so you gonna exlcude and include only certain types every whcih way you try to go with this.

Not a point of human life. If you ran across the border and just demand citizenship... get packing. If you want citizenship f*cking earn it. Learn to speak the native tongue of the land you want to live in. (English) Learn what makes american so great, but don't come here, fop in some part of town trying to blend in and then run around screaming amnesty for me, amnesty for me. It makes everything my grand parents did to come here seem meaningless. I mean they waited their turns, obtained their citizenship like everyone else. My mom and I are the lucky ones... We were born into it. However, just because I was doesn't mean someone running from Mexico to come here should just be handed a green card because he snuck across the desert.

Sorry if you feel I am being an ass about this, but you know what your countries social problems aren't my problem. You wanna become an American do it legally.

[CivilDefense]

DId he get his US citizen ship? DId he fight in war for this country? Before I go telling you to pack your bags (:lol:), I wanna see if he did something that shows his true american spirit. Know what I mean. I mean if he did something like obtaining his citizen ship or something that defined him as an american, then by all means WELCOME. However, just running across the rio grande and settling into an all spanish neighborhood doesn't cut it.
.

Citizen, no probably not, at least he doesnt show up on immigration records.
Fight? No, wasnt really much goin on "warwise" when he was young enough to fight.

This conversation kinda reminds me of this

----
Newsreel announcer: Young people from all over the globe are joining up to fight for the future.
Soldier #1: I'm doing my part.
Soldier #2: I'm doing my part.
Soldier #3: I'm doing my part.
Young kid dressed up as a soldier: I'm doing my part too.
[Soldiers laugh]
Newsreel announcer: They're doing their part. Are you? Join the Mobile Infantry and save the world. Service guarantees citizenship.
-- -------

[dmbfanintn]

Citizen, no probably not, at least he doesnt show up on immigration records.
Fight? No, wasnt really much goin on "warwise" when he was young enough to fight.

This conversation kinda reminds me of this

----
Newsreel announcer: Young people from all over the globe are joining up to fight for the future.
Soldier #1: I'm doing my part.
Soldier #2: I'm doing my part.
Soldier #3: I'm doing my part.
Young kid dressed up as a soldier: I'm doing my part too.
[Soldiers laugh]
Newsreel announcer: They're doing their part. Are you? Join the Mobile Infantry and save the world. Service guarantees citizenship.
---------

Starship Troopers ROCKS!!!

[Danny]

damn straight, but the sequel, eh, not so much.:bored:

[dmbfanintn]

damn straight, but the sequel, eh, not so much.:bored:

:barf: Starship Troopers 2 :barf:

[DeadJonas190]

I am all for leagle immigration. Let whomever wants to be here come here and live as long as they do it in the proper ways. As for the problem with illeagle immigrants, you can't blame somebody for wanting to live a better life. We all want a better life than what we have and face it, most of us have it pretty damn good.

Mexican's aren't stealing your jobs, it is the employers breaking the law by giving those jobs to illeagles for almost no pay that are taking your jobs away.


Borders,language, and culture. I'd push for morals, but I know thats just insanity.
I read this and found it quite ridiculous for a couple reasons. For one, there is not an official national language in the United States. Yes the majority of this country speaks English, but it has never been deemed the official language so to demand that somebody speak English in order to be a citizen is ridiculous.

Second, the whole culture and morals part. I put them together because quite a bit ones culture determines ones morals. Most of the Mexicans I have encountered over the years were extremely hard workers with great work ethics and were very respectful to others. Your basically sterotyping the "bad" to try to make a point.

At the same time, we need better border protection, but face it, you can't blame bad borders on the Democrats, especially since the Republicans controlled congress for quite a long time and did nothing at all to secure them to what we need. A fence will not keep people out, they will just cut the fence in many different spots, climb the fence, or flat out destroy the fence to get through. Plus, the funding for such a fence would be astronomical. That money could be used for better things like education and health care, something to help our people.

Basically, I'm for leagle immigration, but realize that there is no real answer to stopping the illeagles from coming in. We must find a real solution to deal with the problem, be it nationalizing them and making their employers pay them a decent living wage and have them pay taxes or another reasonable solution. Kicking people out who just want to better themselves isn't the answer to the problem. Like I said before, they aren't the ones stealing your jobs, it's the employers who seek them out so that they can make a higher profit by paying them pennies on the dollar for work you and I wouldn't want to do anyway.

Also, at one point most of our ancestors were illeagle immigrants, they weren't invited here by the Native tribes, they came and slaughtered them to take the land. Be happy that couldn't happen again.

[_liam_]

Then you dont mind converting to Islam? Because thats the eventual result ask the French of Dutch. We arent as cursed, because we will be speaking mostly Spanish, but I dont want the US to look like Mexico economically or culturally.

i thought you were of italian ancestry? do you spread organised crime, meatball recipes, and the italian language like some kind of virus?

my family is irish, theres tons of them (i have 15 immediate uncles & aunties), and guess what - i dont blow up cars, drink a lot of guiness or tap dance - i drink tea, dance badly and blow up about the weather - in other words the irish in my family & subsequently myself got assimilated by english culture.

same thing happens to all immigrant families in almost all countries, by the second generation.

[Danny]

i thought you were of italian ancestry? do you spread organised crime, meatball recipes, and the italian language like some kind of virus?



nah just racism by the sound of it.:bored:

cus forgive me for saying this but i seriouslty doubt every mulsim is a terrorist, i think the idea of a religion taking over is pig headed and ignorant in the extreme, but some people just love to seem all knowing.

[Khardis]

i thought you were of italian ancestry? do you spread organised crime, meatball recipes, and the italian language like some kind of virus?

my family is irish, theres tons of them (i have 15 immediate uncles & aunties), and guess what - i dont blow up cars, drink a lot of guiness or tap dance - i drink tea, dance badly and blow up about the weather - in other words the irish in my family & subsequently myself got assimilated by english culture.

same thing happens to all immigrant families in almost all countries, by the second generation.

Actually No I dont do that personally, but many of my relatives did in the past, and I have a number of cousins who are career criminals. Dont throw the stereotype crap at me, most sterotypes are sterotypes because they have an essence of truth. And its pretty obvious you dont follow any of the news coming out of Mainland Europe. Why do you think people are being murdered for drawing cartoons with Muhammad on it? Or for making a films? These arent Native European Christian schoolteachers doing this stuff, its violent unassimilatable angry muslims from Africa and the Mid east. You can try to PC gloss over it, but thats what it is.


nah just racism by the sound of it.:bored:

cus forgive me for saying this but i seriouslty doubt every mulsim is a terrorist, i think the idea of a religion taking over is pig headed and ignorant in the extreme, but some people just love to seem all knowing.

It saddens me to hear someone from England say that.. turn on the news dude, take a trip to France. And we wil see.

[MinionZombie]

The notion that the British people (and likewise the French and so on) would be lazy enough to sit back and have their traditionally Christian (or Catholic, or whatever) countries be taken over by an outside religion from a completely different society, is absolutely stupid in my view.

1) The British people (or whomever) would not stand for it, simple as. You can practice whatever religion you want, but as a traditionally Christian country - that is how Britain will remain.

2) The notion that the vast majority of Muslims would actually want to take over someone else's country seems a bit off, the fact that some Muslims demanding Shariah Law were turned down, shows they are not about to get anywhere remotely near even moving Britain towards becoming Islamist.

3) There are 1 million (roughly) Muslims in the UK, mainly living in the London-ish area. There are over 60 million non-Muslims in Britain.

4) People, in general, may have gotten somewhat complacent of late, but clearly with the whole fuss regarding veils, they're not about to lie down and just watch sitcoms forever.

The trouble is, it's the bad apple Muslims, who take the religion and twist it into their own hideous, mangled ideas. Much like what can be (and is) done with Christianity. But the vast majority are nice, normal people. It's just a shame the bad apples hog all the headlines and the good guys won't stand up and make a spectacle about being normal and not extremists.

If anything, religion is going to lose more grip, rather than regain, over time.

[Khardis]

The notion that the British people (and likewise the French and so on) would be lazy enough to sit back and have their traditionally Christian (or Catholic, or whatever) countries be taken over by an outside religion from a completely different society, is absolutely stupid in my view.

1) The British people (or whomever) would not stand for it, simple as. You can practice whatever religion you want, but as a traditionally Christian country - that is how Britain will remain.

2) The notion that the vast majority of Muslims would actually want to take over someone else's country seems a bit off, the fact that some Muslims demanding Shariah Law were turned down, shows they are not about to get anywhere remotely near even moving Britain towards becoming Islamist.

3) There are 1 million (roughly) Muslims in the UK, mainly living in the London-ish area. There are over 60 million non-Muslims in Britain.

4) People, in general, may have gotten somewhat complacent of late, but clearly with the whole fuss regarding veils, they're not about to lie down and just watch sitcoms forever.

The trouble is, it's the bad apple Muslims, who take the religion and twist it into their own hideous, mangled ideas. Much like what can be (and is) done with Christianity. But the vast majority are nice, normal people. It's just a shame the bad apples hog all the headlines and the good guys won't stand up and make a spectacle about being normal and not extremists.

If anything, religion is going to lose more grip, rather than regain, over time.

Its not as simple as all that friend. You European blokes (the people I am rooting for) are simply losing the breeding game. Europeans have negative birthrates, which is why they had to open the borders to let in all the 3rd worlders to boot. To pay for the taxes that less and less Europeans could do because of shrinking numbers.

Check out the book America Alone. It talks about just that, how the Native Europeans are basically dying off, and the only people producing children are the immigrants who dont want to conform or assimilate into European cultures.

Thats how it will be over taken. They evne have laws in certain European countries to PAY native Europeans to have children with huge tax incentives... its not working.

[_liam_]

Actually No I dont do that personally, but many of my relatives did in the past, and I have a number of cousins who are career criminals. Dont throw the stereotype crap at me, most sterotypes are sterotypes because they have an essence of truth. And its pretty obvious you dont follow any of the news coming out of Mainland Europe. Why do you think people are being murdered for drawing cartoons with Muhammad on it? Or for making a films? These arent Native European Christian schoolteachers doing this stuff, its violent unassimilatable angry muslims from Africa and the Mid east. You can try to PC gloss over it, but thats what it is.



yes indeed, an essence of truth. essence implies a small element and not an overall characteristic, does it not?

it's very easy to get whipped up by the media. it's much harder to be rational and sensible about it, so i sympathise.

I dont follow the news coming out of mainland europe?! i live in europe you jackass...YOU don't. you base your information on third party handouts from the news services, i bloody live here! i was on the tube 2 days after the 7/7 bombings, i travel up and down the country frequently, and go to the continent to chill out or attend metal festivals at least 2 or 3 times a year. i find myself wondering what the hell you know from CNN that i don't with my own eyes & ears, on the streets (sorry to sound like huggy bear).

nobody was killed over those cartoons as far as i know...uppity middle class muslim students decided to spice up their lives by waving offensive banners at protests, and a lot of them are now on trial.

france? have you ever been to france mate? ive spent a month on the riviera and a week in paris this year alone (woo get me, i know it's france, but the food & drinks good and it's laid back), and i didnt see any jihadists beheading people in the street. my girl's parents often chill out in the dordogne, no reports of the second crusades going on out there.
indeed, and im not just saying this to be clever or contrary, i was actually very impressed at how courteous and polite the working class muslim kids who hung around the streets after dark were, compared to the aforementioned gangs of english thugs.

they seemed more interested in my prodigious hair length than anything else, they would file out of the way and let me and my girlfriend pass, hmm, maybe im just a crazy pinko liberal, but they seemed like normal human beings to me.

australia has a problem with muslim gangs, but then those kids arent good muslims, theyre just jackasses, and living in a seriously racist country probably doesnt help.

my guitarist is of syrian descent, has a muslim family, never found any c4 in his room...

i visit upton park in london fairly frequently, you wont see a white face for miles...but i never get any ****, despite bein a weird looking kafir guy with a girl in fetishwear on one arm...surely that would be enough to offend their sensibilities and cause them to go jihad on my arse? mysteriously doesnt though...

hmm...maybe it's just the minority going mad, thinka that? just like the minority of italian americans were into organised crime, just like the minority of irishmen actively contributed to the troubles.

i'm not rushing to join the khardis bashers, but you seem to have a lot of presumptions as opposed to facts at your command. prove me wrong though, i wont be a prick if you do.

[Khardis]

yes indeed, an essence of truth. essence implies a small element and not an overall characteristic, does it not?

it's very easy to get whipped up by the media. it's much harder to be rational and sensible about it, so i sympathise.

I dont follow the news coming out of mainland europe?! i live in europe you jackass...YOU don't. you base your information on third party handouts from the news services, i bloody live here! i was on the tube 2 days after the 7/7 bombings, i travel up and down the country frequently, and go to the continent to chill out or attend metal festivals at least 2 or 3 times a year. i find myself wondering what the hell you know from CNN that i don't with my own eyes & ears, on the streets (sorry to sound like huggy bear).

nobody was killed over those cartoons as far as i know...uppity middle class muslim students decided to spice up their lives by waving offensive banners at protests, and a lot of them are now on trial.

france? have you ever been to france mate? ive spent a month on the riviera and a week in paris this year alone (woo get me, i know it's france, but the food & drinks good and it's laid back), and i didnt see any jihadists beheading people in the street. my girl's parents often chill out in the dordogne, no reports of the second crusades going on out there.
indeed, and im not just saying this to be clever or contrary, i was actually very impressed at how courteous and polite the working class muslim kids who hung around the streets after dark were, compared to the aforementioned gangs of english thugs.

they seemed more interested in my prodigious hair length than anything else, they would file out of the way and let me and my girlfriend pass, hmm, maybe im just a crazy pinko liberal, but they seemed like normal human beings to me.

australia has a problem with muslim gangs, but then those kids arent good muslims, theyre just jackasses, and living in a seriously racist country probably doesnt help.

my guitarist is of syrian descent, has a muslim family, never found any c4 in his room...

i visit upton park in london fairly frequently, you wont see a white face for miles...but i never get any ****, despite bein a weird looking kafir guy with a girl in fetishwear on one arm...surely that would be enough to offend their sensibilities and cause them to go jihad on my arse? mysteriously doesnt though...

hmm...maybe it's just the minority going mad, thinka that? just like the minority of italian americans were into organised crime, just like the minority of irishmen actively contributed to the troubles.

i'm not rushing to join the khardis bashers, but you seem to have a lot of presumptions as opposed to facts at your command. prove me wrong though, i wont be a prick if you do.

Mainland Europe is Not England... dont make that mistake.

There was no need to make this personal by namecalling, as such I reported this post.

And a number of people died over the cartoons, youre clearly misinformed.


In London, Tony Blair condemned demonstrators who besieged the Danish Embassy at the weekend bearing placards threatening massacre and praising the actions of the July 7 bombers. One protester was dressed in the belt of a suicide bomber while a 20-month old baby wore a bonnet bearing the words "I love Al-Qaeda".

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2027502,00.html

Sounds like a nice quiet minority being abused by a racist system to me... not.

[Terran]

My grandfather beat the crap out of an english dock boss with a cant hook and ran and stowed away on a ship headed for america.

Sounds pretty american to me.... :)



There was no need to make this personal by namecalling, as such I reported this post.

:(...*Shakes head*...:(

[MinionZombie]

Or perhaps European women have gotten the chance to go to work, and have thus hopped on the bandwagon - therefore inducing a dip in the over all birthrate. Meanwhile, Muslim women generally aren't allowed to have jobs - so they are left at home making babies. There's also their views on sex, contraception and abortion.

During the war the ample-age-for-breeding men went off to fight, they came back and tada - the baby boom, the population rocketed. We're currently in a dip, guaranteed it rises again as women start finding the mix between a working life and settling down to have a family. Heck, we even have women now who are finding out the working world isn't as great as some thought it might be and are making the choice to be a bit rebellious and stay at home again.

[Terran]

Or perhaps European women have gotten the chance to go to work, and have thus hopped on the bandwagon - therefore inducing a dip in the over all birthrate. Meanwhile, Muslim women generally aren't allowed to have jobs - so they are left at home making babies. There's also their views on sex, contraception and abortion.

During the war the ample-age-for-breeding men went off to fight, they came back and tada - the baby boom, the population rocketed. We're currently in a dip, guaranteed it rises again as women start finding the mix between a working life and settling down to have a family. Heck, we even have women now who are finding out the working world isn't as great as some thought it might be and are making the choice to be a bit rebellious and stay at home again.

Man what I wouldnt give to be a stay at home dad and raise a huge brood of kids....but then again this would only be great if the kids had similiar interests....
Cartoons....
Video Games....
Toys....
Pets....
Playing sports(not watching them)
World Domination....
Etc....

raising girls as a Dad would be difficult.... only thing I could really relate with them is by watching chick flicks...(since I like all movies)....

Hmm....but then again raising girls has its advantages if they ever gave me grandkids chances are most of her kids would be more like me in looks/vices/benefits....(this idea is purely unscientific and Im a little drunk but I bet I could find some evidence that supports it....I look identical to my moms father (to the point where I could be his clone...people see old photos of him when he was my age and ask me when I had that picture taken of me...I hope I dont inheret his short lifespan :eek: )....my brothers and I are all very similiar to my mom's "lineage"...and my dad is identical to his mother...my sister is very similiar to my father...

Hmm I may be on to something...

[_liam_]

Mainland Europe is Not England... dont make that mistake.



c'mon man, don't make me be cranky, i said ive spent over a month in france & have visited other places in Europe this year

remember, i said;

"(I ) go to the continent to chill out or attend metal festivals at least 2 or 3 times a year."

and

"france? have you ever been to france mate? ive spent a month on the riviera and a week in paris this year alone (woo get me, i know it's france, but the food & drinks good and it's laid back), and i didnt see any jihadists beheading people in the street. my girl's parents often chill out in the dordogne, no reports of the second crusades going on out there.
indeed, and im not just saying this to be clever or contrary, i was actually very impressed at how courteous and polite the working class muslim kids who hung around the streets after dark were, compared to the aforementioned gangs of english thugs."

did that just slip you by or something? or were you conveniently ignoring it?

i say again, what the hell do you know? you just read stuff on the internet.

i don't pretend to know what's going on in your part of the world to the point where i'll rubbish people who actually live there and not accept they might just know more.

and re: that link;
"At least six people have died as protests over cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad erupted in riots across the Islamic world."

that's not Europe though is it?, that article doesn't mention anyone in europe being killed. noisy demonstrations in denmark is all it says.

please, just answer my question (ie what the hell do you know) without being completely misinformed & presumptious - i beg you!

[Terran]

i say again, what the hell do you know? you just read stuff on the internet.



Hey I take offense Im reporting this post :clown: ....Comeon! ..All I do is read stuff on the internet...!...and I think that sometimes I know a lot (see how I attempted to be vague with "sometimes" and "I think" everyone has trouble wrestling between confidence and hubris :D ).... Its just a matter of how much stuff you read on the internet :| ...or how well you can identify objectional material...or in most cases merge several heavily biased information from multiple varying positions into one cohesive idea....


BOOM!....Man I feel wordy today...

[_liam_]

well there's nothing wrong with that, as long as you dont pretend to know more than...well...someone who does...

[Terran]

well there's nothing wrong with that, as long as you dont pretend to know more than...well...someone who does...

But what if someone who does actually doesnt?

Because someone who actually had a given experience is just as suspect of bias if not more so than someone who experiences bias through a report of another...

Im not intentially trying to be argumentitive...:rolleyes: Personal accounts are important but they cant always be given more weight than "reports" of the same thing....

Like heres a silly example. Someone goes to Mexico and has a wonderful time ...Like when I watched Dave Attel go to mexico on the Travel channel....it looked like a BLAST...Everything was dirt cheap from food to entertainment...the people were awsome and hospitable ...the food seemed fantastic...and the night life seemed incredible and relatively safe (as safe as any major city).... Now so Dave Attels personal experience is amazing...and throughout the show it was mentioned of this USA common perception of mexico being dirty, crime-ridden, corrupt and all together unpleasent...
Is David Attels personal account more telling than what the common perception is?
Or is it ridiculously biased because it is the travel channel and Attel had a translator/guide...


The obvious answer is probally a little of both...

And its likely that how much it tilts in extremes between those two possibilities is dependant on chance, language proficiency, and a guide is a definite plus to keep you out of notorious areas. (In the same sense that A german tourist visiting the USA could leave with a bad interpretation if they end up in a bad area get sick from poor food, get mugged at gunpoint and the cops do next to nothing because of its too common of an occurence in that particular area. The tourist would leave with an account of the USA being a dirty, crime ridden, corrupt place filled with gun toting maniacs.)

That being said with your statements reguarding Europe. I basically agree with them but thats only because so far what you have said has only further validated what I already suspected to be the case....

Sensationlist media tends exaggerate the mundane and make what is essentially a super rare occurance into either a growing epidemic or a criminally ignored ongoing pattern.....depending on the political leanings of the given media....:skull:

*sigh* Oh well...Different strokes for different folks...(I prefer gentle, slow, and steady.....bwhaahah)...

Damn!....pretty long post for me essentially jsut agreeing with you...:|

[_liam_]

aye, you are right, but i stand by what i said about france as i have travelled all over the country, from the sh***y areas to the riviera, can speak the language, blah blah.

as murky as this point sounds now, i didnt really mean that someone who was actually there is the last word in truth, but when it comes to me Vs khardis on the subject of cultural tensions in france, the amount of french culture & life i have experienced far eclipses his own knowledge, which is based soley on negative news reports (which, having a television & computer, i consume as well, so i probably know everything he knows, with added first hand experience), and as such i would say i was in a better position to evaluate the situation over there than he is.

so yeah, basically we agree ;)

it just annoys me that he tells us to go to france sometime, and when i say i go there a lot, he just says "UK isnt mainland europe" :rolleyes: what's the point?

[MinionZombie]

And another thought I just remembered. There's researchers and sociologists etc now saying that stay at home Dads just aren't cut out for it ultimately, as they essentially can't provide the "mother nature" that a stay at home Mum can.

It's something buried deep in our genetic make up - the men went off and hunted and gathered, the women stay at the cave and multi-tasked. The blokes had one task - kill animal, eat it later. Hence a man's inability to multi-task effectively.

There's some sociologists and commentators now saying that kids grow up better having a stay at home mother than a stay at home father - at the very least in the primary socialisation stage of their development anyway. After the kids are off to school it'd be perfectly fine, I would have thought, for the mother to go back to work in a part time capacity or even for the man and woman to swap roles completely.

[dmbfanintn]

they seemed more interested in my prodigious hair length than anything else, they would file out of the way and let me and my girlfriend pass, hmm, maybe im just a crazy pinko liberal, but they seemed like normal human beings to me.



NNNOOOOO!!!!!!!

Damn you Liam!! They ARE NOT normal human beings, THEY ARE TERRORISTS!!!

Were they brown? Were they muslims?

Then dammit, they were terrorists, haven't you been watching the tele????

[MinionZombie]

The TV?! Screw the TV, haven't you guys been watching Team America and taking it seriously???!!! :lol::lol: and oh yeah, :lol:.

[Khardis]

c'mon man, don't make me be cranky, i said ive spent over a month in france & have visited other places in Europe this year

remember, i said;

"(I ) go to the continent to chill out or attend metal festivals at least 2 or 3 times a year."

and

"france? have you ever been to france mate? ive spent a month on the riviera and a week in paris this year alone (woo get me, i know it's france, but the food & drinks good and it's laid back), and i didnt see any jihadists beheading people in the street. my girl's parents often chill out in the dordogne, no reports of the second crusades going on out there.
indeed, and im not just saying this to be clever or contrary, i was actually very impressed at how courteous and polite the working class muslim kids who hung around the streets after dark were, compared to the aforementioned gangs of english thugs."

did that just slip you by or something? or were you conveniently ignoring it?

i say again, what the hell do you know? you just read stuff on the internet.

i don't pretend to know what's going on in your part of the world to the point where i'll rubbish people who actually live there and not accept they might just know more.

and re: that link;
"At least six people have died as protests over cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad erupted in riots across the Islamic world."

that's not Europe though is it?, that article doesn't mention anyone in europe being killed. noisy demonstrations in denmark is all it says.

please, just answer my question (ie what the hell do you know) without being completely misinformed & presumptious - i beg you!

Yes I have been to France, Paris and a small town in Châteauroux where my Memere owns land. While I am predominatly Italian I also have Irish and French heritage as well, my grandmother is a French Immgrant and I have oodles of 2nd cousins all over France whom I have met. They too tell me about the impending doom of France with all the arabs coming in "thier words".

But thats not the same as going to parties in the French Riviera (IE tourist location on the coast) is it?

And NUMEROUS people have been killed in Europe for saying things Muslims didnt like, not too long ago there was a Director murdered for making a movie critical of Radical Islam. I think his name was Theo Van Goh and he was Dutch.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3974179.stm

There ya go, now crawl back into your fantasy land and pretend everything is beautiful and serene.

[Bubdotd]

Why dosent mexico just do what our country did and have a better country so most of mexican citizens dont come here.

"they took our jobs!"

lol

[Khardis]

And another thought I just remembered. There's researchers and sociologists etc now saying that stay at home Dads just aren't cut out for it ultimately, as they essentially can't provide the "mother nature" that a stay at home Mum can.

It's something buried deep in our genetic make up - the men went off and hunted and gathered, the women stay at the cave and multi-tasked. The blokes had one task - kill animal, eat it later. Hence a man's inability to multi-task effectively.

There's some sociologists and commentators now saying that kids grow up better having a stay at home mother than a stay at home father - at the very least in the primary socialisation stage of their development anyway. After the kids are off to school it'd be perfectly fine, I would have thought, for the mother to go back to work in a part time capacity or even for the man and woman to swap roles completely.

Its true, I have read about this too... and I dont understand why a man would want to be a stay at home dad anyway and let a woman take care of him financially... I would feel like K-fed or something.


NNNOOOOO!!!!!!!

Damn you Liam!! They ARE NOT normal human beings, THEY ARE TERRORISTS!!!

Were they brown? Were they muslims?

Then dammit, they were terrorists, haven't you been watching the tele????

Yeah they are worried about hair length until your critique thier habits as a block of people, then they cut your head off.

[_liam_]

khardis, you go and live in your fantasy realm where every muslim is a terrorist.

yknow theres another group of people who think an ethnic/religious group is trying to create a new world order, and they lost the last world war. nice intellectual company youre keeping there.

and i didnt JUST go to the riviera, and when i WAS in the riviera, i didnt go to parties. presumption, presumption presumption, youre pretty good at it.

remember what i was saying about upton park? the last day i spent there i probably saw more muslims than you have in your whole life, yet somehow you know more. i lived in the east end of london for over a decade and lead a very warm & close co-existence with muslim families, who didnt try to convert me or condsecend to me for my infidel ways. explain that.

i ask again, what do you know? YOU are the one that lives in a fantasy land, generated by hysterical media reports that capitalise on your innate xenophobia.

yes ok, so you can dig up reports of the occasional nutter who kills someone in the name of allah, i can dig up reams of reports of white guys who kick the crap out of people every weekend in the name of fun, i can get you neo nazis, drug dealers, alcoholics - none of which are muslim issues.

no group of people is innately good or bad - to believe so is RACIST thinking, just as hitler thought all jews were greedy, as some americans think black people are lazy and stupid. it simply IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

there will always be those who let their group of people down. muslim terrorists let islam down, and racists like you let the west down.

[HLS]

Musliems moving to France is noit going to doom it. Like liam said being a muslim does not make them a terrorist. Many muslim people are good people. I have friends from afganistan(sp?), Iran and Iraq that happen to be very good loving people not to mention the hardest working people I ever met. They have more courtesy(sp) and respect for others then most americans and I think this is because they are thankful to be in america and have a chance to make something of themselves.

[_liam_]

exactly HLS. in my opinion people like you do your country proud by affording respect to anyone who works hard & extends you a similar degree of respect.