Prisoners - What's next? Compensation for missing their favourite TV programs?

[Neil]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6142416.stm

What's the old saying? If you can't do the time... FFS!

[_liam_]

yeah this really is ridiculous. a disastrous precedent indeed.
so basically theyre getting compensation because they can't go out and commit a crime, and subsequently feed other aspects of criminal activity :rolleyes: w/e

[Eyebiter]

The Judge must be a fan of Trainspottting

[deadpunk]

That has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. Governments need to set a different set of standards for the 'basic human rights' of convicted criminals than the one they have for law-abiding citizens.

If Minion Zombie goes to jail...think they will compensate him for going HPOTD-cold turkey?!?

[Tricky]

They should be forced to go cold turkey,they got on the dirty stuff in the first place!smack rats are among the worlds worst scum :mad:

[HLS]

I know. Thats stupid. I mean they are the ones doing crime to pay for their drug habbit I do not think the taxpayers should pay to detox them.

[MinionZombie]

Agreed, this just shows another plunge into political depravity for this apparently elected gubment. It's bad enough kids get paid to go to school, for cryin' out loud, now paying prisoners to not only play scrabble, but to quit drugs that they chose to do and should have known full well were nothing but bad news.

No wonder the prisons are full, for one, labour seeks to jail as many people as possible for stupid things like not letting a survey person in your house instead of jailing, I don't know - murderers, rapists, kiddy fiddlers and such. Also, the prison life is probably much better than what some of these guys have in the real world.

Whatever happened to prison being a place you feared to go, a place where you were actually punished. In my view, all prisoners should be in solitary confinement rooms, they shouldn't be allowed TV, they should work for the country - like making license plates, the sort of thing, use these scumbags to our advantage for a change. They should only get a minimal amount of time outside, they shouldn't be paid for a damn thing. Like Tricky said, they should be forced to go cold turkey anyway - show them what their stupid decision to do drugs has cost them.

"Breach of their human rights" - ridiculous - it's literally on the BBC 1 news right now.

*yeuch*

I'm sick of this gubment, the sooner they're out the better. PAYING prisoners ... unbelievable.

[Terran]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6142416.stm

What's the old saying? If you can't do the time... FFS!

I doubt anyone will read all this but I encourage anyone who feels seriously about the subject to take the time and give it a glance.

Ok Im going to go out on a limb here....my opinion seems unpopular since it hasn’t surfaced yet


Now while I agree that paying prisoners compensation at first gut glance seems outrageous…
Before I go on I think I should establish a couple of things that should fundamentally apply even if they are unpopular…But I think most can agree on the numbered points and lettered followups.

1)Prisoners while being essentially property of the state are still entitled to their human rights.
a) Medical Attention
b)Psychiatric Attention
* Special note on the Psychiatric attention I think I should mention that I feel Super Max prisons are inhuman and practically criminal. Driving criminals insane forcing many of them to kill or mutilate themselves is not justice even though it feels satisfying for the vengeful types.

2) One goal of prisons are to punish/rehabilitate those who will be released within their lifetime.

3) Another goal of prisons are to humanely house dangerous criminals who can never be released back into society.

Ok I think that covers the guidelines in which I will respond.

There are volumes of evidence that suggest drug taking and a resulting addiction has very strong genetic components. Let me be clear that this does not excuse their actions! Part of the package deal with being cognoscente is an ability to map out your own behavior according to self-set guidelines (Results may vary. lol). Another part of this package deal or perhaps a result of is that we have a very delicate psyche.

So according to guideline 1 a prisoner is entitled to medical and psychiatric attention.
Now a pretty standard “treatment” for heroine addiction is methadone. Now if you argue that its stupid to get prisoners addicted to a similar drug so they don’t suffer from withdrawal from the illegal drug you would be making a sound argument BUT its not the prisons job to dictate which medical policy on the effectiveness of a treatment.


With physical dependence, the body has adapted to the presence of the drug and withdrawal symptoms may occur if use is reduced or stopped. Withdrawal, which in regular abusers may occur as early as a few hours after the last administration, produces drug craving, restlessness, muscle and bone pain, insomnia, diarrhea and vomiting, cold flashes with goose bumps ("cold turkey"), kicking movements and other symptoms. Major withdrawal symptoms peak between 48 and 72 hours after the last dose and subside after about a week. Sudden withdrawal by heavily dependent users who are in poor health is occasionally fatal.
So it is clear that cold turkey is not an alternative treatment and forcing the inmates to go through this may be fatal. If that isn’t inhuman I don’t what is. If these humans are to be considered “property of the state” it is the states legal obligation to care for them.

Further more the effects of making prisoners go cold turkey damages the other two guidelines goals.
In guideline 2 if the inmate is one day to be released it would good incentive to demonstrate to the inmate that during his/her keep with the state that they were properly cared for. With no psychiatric issues resulting in the cold turkey treatment (or the situations that cold turkey creates more below).

In guideline 3 dangerous inmates with intricate criminal networks mingle with less dangerous ones (that is if the dangerous ones aren’t already in supermax ). A situation resulting in forcing addicted inmates to go cold turkey means adding fuel to the fire of all the illegal substances smuggled into the prisons. Increased illegal drug flow means increases in incidences of inmate gangs struggling for control of the prison market. Meaning a more dangerous environment for guards and other inmates. This doesn’t begin and end in the prisons BTW, the criminal element and corruption that feeds this situation exists outside the prison. So an increase demand means an increase in violence and crime outside of prisons. Yeah probably the reaction would be slight at first but if more prisons practiced this “treatment” eventually the state creates a breeding ground for corruption and violence that effects people outside of the prisons.

The previous point is really less important to me than the fundamental ones. Just sometimes people don’t care about injustice as long as it wont effect them so I included that point to show how usually everything is connected in some form.

The bottom line is that even prisoners are entitled to proper medical treatment. If we want to talk about precedents here how bad of a precedent would it be if we allowed prisoners to be subjected to experimental “treatments” instead of receiving humane care. Hell I guess we could always start just executing all prisoners that would be pretty nifty. A key thing is this statement is bull****

The Home Office said it "reluctantly" decided to settle out of court to "minimize costs to the taxpayer".
They settled because they would likely lose. And victims likely accepted the settlement only because they were worried about winning being criminals and all. (Also the lawyer wants LOOT now rather than later!).


I really cant see how anyone can be mad about this unless they were expressing a gut reaction or were ignorant to the severity of heroine addiction and/or unaware to the basics of prison workings.



Disclaimer: Person opinion of how I think things should be done.
1) I don’t know if super max prisons branches exist in the UK but I think they should be eliminated perhaps even legal compensation to the families of the criminals who are now insane or dead by suicide (maybe split it with the victims of the criminals actions).
2.) Replace super max facilities with high security facilities that maximize separation of the inmates with inmates and inmates with guards but allow for a great deal of social interaction (keeps people sane).
3) People in prison for life should have the option to choose to be medicated with downer type drugs(supervised intake of course). The same type of drugs they give mental patients to sedate them from acting up and hurting themselves and others.
4) Life sentenced inmates kept in different facilities to keep them away from people who “intend“ to “rehabilitate“.
5) An overall greater attention to the emotional and psychiatric needs of the prisoners especially those intended to be released some day.


Hmm I don’t think I left anything out. In this post but its definitely possible I got sidetracked and left out a stunning arguement or two…lol


EDIT: Ugggg!! Given the position of my post in the thread another post or so and most wont even notice my responce and continue with their gut reactions

[Neil]

Oh... Alright! What you said made sense! Damn you!

[coma]

The article stated that people are taken off methadone maintenence. If that is considerd medicine they are denying medical care and that would be considered a civil rights violation and that is the cause of action. At least that could be a good legal argument.


As far a rehabilitation is concerned, that is "coddling". So learning to, say, read is a priviledge.:rolleyes: Prisons dont rehabilitate anymore. Its just temporary (or permanent) housing.

[Maitreya]

Terran, while I'm all for human rights and I see that your argument made sense... I have a few things to say about this.

It is true that Heroine withdrawals are painful and possibly fatal but consider this: Somebody gets off of Heroine cold turkey and has to go through the worst pain of their life. After doing that do you think they're going to want to go back to it?

If they get nursed off of it then they're going to think it's easy to get off of it and go right back to it as soon as they get out. If they die, so be it, one less piece of **** waste in society. While there are genetic dispositions to drug addiction it was still their fault to take it in the first place, I doubt someone tied them to a chair and forced the needle in their arm.

While I am quite liberal in some areas I just feel that crime is something that requires extreme malice. The prison system in the US and now I'm seeing in UK is a joke. It's rediculous that mine and your tax money is going to pieces of ****: Drug addicts, murderers, rapists, pedofiles, and thieves to give them their "TV time" and their "Comfy living". They lost those rights when they ****ed up and broke the law.

All that money that could be going to homeless people who can barely eat; those people who have crippling illnesses who pray that they can just live one more day, see one more sunrise, see their family one last time; those families that struggle to put food on the table and a roof over their heads. But no. It's going to piece of **** scumbags who couldn't stay away from the ****ing needle and bitch about it once they're caught and can't get their fix anymore.

Yea. I can see what a good idea it is to fund them.

[MinionZombie]

I like the cut of your jib, I'd likewise much rather see the wasted money splashed out on prison comforts to be spent on the homeless, the elderly and on the national health system to provide sufferers of (for instance) Alzheimers and breast cancer with the recent wonder drugs which have proven to give valuable relief to the patients. I think that's a damn sight more worthy than TV time and comforts for people who have broken the basic, simple and respectful human codes of practice.

What do the victims? The prisoners have the cushtiest prison stay there's ever been, the victims are either dead, mentally and/or physically scarred and so forth ...

As far as I'm concerned there should be a system, a scale if you will, which proportioned a crime committed and the amount of "human rights/comforts" you were now entitled to.

E.g. cold blooded murderers and rapists get f*ck all and should deservedly rot in solitary confinement with nothing more than mouldy books from an old storeroom to pass the time - that and monotonous manual labour that could benefit (even if only a small way) the outside society.

Robbers (non-violent) might get some TV, the odd game of pool, a bit of outside time but with a weight of time in favour of more manual, tedious labour. Things like making boxes, license plates, that kind of thing.

Petty criminals, minimum security type folk, should receive simple comforts, which are still a serious step down from free society - also, more manual and tedious labour.

Just some ideas off the top of my head how things might be done better.

[Terran]

Ugg...I dont feel like addressing both MZ and Maitreyas points point by point....cause several things you guys said I specifically addressed in my intial post....

The issue is really simple as it gets.
The prisons job is to care for and control the inmates.
The prison does not make medical policy. Nor is it responcible for diagnosing levels of illness or prescribing treatments. Thats a doctors job.
It is the prisons legal responcibiilty though to administer medical treatments prescribed. They criminally failed in that capacity and its really as simple as that.

If your going to be angry at prisoners getting treatments like methadone, buprenorphine, or diazepam ect. Start venting at the pharmecuetical companies total lack of pursuing more useful treatments. They never will though cause junkies and prisoners tend not to have health insurance ... :)

According to your guys logic the prison can feel free to neglect insulin shots, siezure medication, anti coagulants, etc because they are medically qualified to make those judgements.

And just totally disreguard all the other probelms that I mentioned previously :|

[coma]

It is true that Heroine withdrawals are painful and possibly fatal but consider this: Somebody gets off of Heroine cold turkey and has to go through the worst pain of their life. After doing that do you think they're going to want to go back to it?
If they get nursed off of it then they're going to think it's easy to get off of it and go right back to it as soon as they get out.
I dont think you've known any junkies cause easy or hard withdrawel, if they wanna get high no bad experience is going to stop them. And I think they know withdrawal is hard which is why they beeome fiends in the first place.


The prison system in the US and now I'm seeing in UK is a joke. It's rediculous that mine and your tax money is going to pieces of ****: Drug addicts, murderers, rapists, pedofiles, and thieves to give them their "TV time" and their "Comfy living". They lost those rights when they ****ed up and broke the law.

There is nothing "comfy" about jail. That is fantasy. Go to any jail for 5 minutes and you will change your mind. For that matter, go in a holding cell. Just visiting is creepy and scary. Wnen people say jail "wasn't that bad" I think/know they are nuts and have a very low standars of what to expect from life, to ssay the least.
I don't see at all what the big deal is in treating humans like humans. Just being locked up doesn't mean that you are a useless scumbag. In the US they lock you up for anything.
I dont think people should be locked up for using drugs in itself. Only for violent and property crimes.

[Terran]

Holy crap!...I just realized I couldve quoted part of my sig in one of my responces....lol

Ill just throw it out there now for good measure....


Your reality is based on monstrous lies and disingenuous parables. Laws are capricious and their enforcement more so. Such pseudo-justice is merely a convenient performance intended to dupe the public into believing that law and order protect them. Realize more than anything else, power and its corollary abuse makes the world go round.