If Ben was white

[otisbenny]

Since I'm new I'm not sure if this has been asked before. I wonder if Harry would have been as hateful toward Ben if Ben was a white guy. It seems that his reaction to Ben's authority is beyond any normal reaction. Any suggestion Ben gives is dismissed as crazy. Now I know Harry was ultimately right to want to stay in the basement, but Ben's ideas were valid as well. I think if Ben were a white guy, Harry would've been more open and possibly even accepted him as the guy in charge. What do y'all think?

[HLS]

Since I'm new I'm not sure if this has been asked before. I wonder if Harry would have been as hateful toward Ben if Ben was a white guy. It seems that his reaction to Ben's authority is beyond any normal reaction. Any suggestion Ben gives is dismissed as crazy. Now I know Harry was ultimately right to want to stay in the basement, but Ben's ideas were valid as well. I think if Ben were a white guy, Harry would've been more open and possibly even accepted him as the guy in charge. What do y'all think?

I do not think it mattered. They were scared and people in a panic do not think logically. I do think that Ben being black had a role in the movie being populer. I mean back in those days a black leading man was rare and kinda scandalish.

[scotty Boy]

Well after reading a book based on romeros films it does state that Ben was only black by coincidence, and it was not meant to seem racial in any way.

But if this was no coincidence i do not think Harry would have treated him any differnt, it quite heavily shows that all he wants to do is be the man of the house and it was only Ben standing in his way and this is why the conflict started.

in my opinion i doubt it had anything to do with race or colour and im sure Romero intended it to be this way too

[otisbenny]

I know GAR never intended race to be an issue but I believe it's still there just the same.
Harry seems very intimidated and threatened by Ben.
Harry strikes me as a guy that would give orders to a black guy, not take 'em.

[capncnut]

I think that if GAR had intended Cooper to be racist then he would have put a cuss or two in the movie. I think Cooper is supposed to be an asshole in general, after all Helen does say something like; "That's important isn't it? For you to be right and everybody else to be wrong."

[Philly_SWAT]

I think that if GAR had intended Cooper to be racist then he would have put a cuss or two in the movie. I think Cooper is supposed to be an asshole in general, after all Helen does say something like; "That's important isn't it? For you to be right and everybody else to be wrong."
Absolutely. I would say that the question "What if Ben were white" is certainly one worthy of discussion, but I do agree with the others that race had no bearing at all on the movie, and that Cooper would have reacted with the same level of "asshole-ishness" to anybody.

You have to give Cooper some credit however. In the end his idea was proved to be the right one, and he had the testicular fortitude to stick to his guns, even after Tom "turned against him" and joined with Ben. And also, regardless of Ben's race, Copper was being an amazing dick, so much so that most anyone would get to the point of administering a beatdown. Cooper did not seem to be much of a fighter, yet he never backed down to Ben, and took his ass whupping like a man.

[deadpunk]

You have to give Cooper some credit however. In the end his idea was proved to be the right one, and he had the testicular fortitude to stick to his guns, even after Tom "turned against him" and joined with Ben.


Now I know Harry was ultimately right to want to stay in the basement, but Ben's ideas were valid as well.

How do you guys figure Cooper's plan was right?! :eek:

Have you blokes forgotten there was an infected girl just waiting to change down there? And, Cooper showed very vehmenently that he wasn't going to let anyone brain her.

Locking yourself in a confined area with a zombie is NOT a good plan of action!

[Philly_SWAT]

How do you guys figure Cooper's plan was right?! :eek:

Have you blokes forgotten there was an infected girl just waiting to change down there? And, Cooper showed very vehmenently that he wasn't going to let anyone brain her.

Locking yourself in a confined area with a zombie is NOT a good plan of action!Well, he said that there were a million holes for the zombies to break in up top, which proved to be true, the zombies broke in and swarmed the house. He said the cellar was the safest place, and he was right, Ben managed to survive by going in there. Even though the zombies were concentrating their attack on the cellar door, they couldnt get in.

As far as Karen Cooper being in there, do you think she would kill everyone down there? Asumming her mother would be closest to her when she "came back" she would attack her mother, how long before Ben would have taken her out? Not too hard to figure out that the mother may come back next, and be on the watchout after she died.

[deadpunk]

Well, he said that there were a million holes for the zombies to break in up top, which proved to be true, the zombies broke in and swarmed the house. He said the cellar was the safest place, and he was right, Ben managed to survive by going in there. Even though the zombies were concentrating their attack on the cellar door, they couldnt get in.

As far as Karen Cooper being in there, do you think she would kill everyone down there? Asumming her mother would be closest to her when she "came back" she would attack her mother, how long before Ben would have taken her out? Not too hard to figure out that the mother may come back next, and be on the watchout after she died.

Good points, yet...

You're basing that off the idea that all Hell doesn't break loose when Karen rises. Remember, when Cooper wants to go into the basement, no one yet knows what is going on. And, this is NOT a tightly knit group. Through out the entire movie we see them struggle more with each other than with the rising dead.

Another scenario: Karen attacks her mother. Ben raises the gun and fires just as one of the other leans in to intervene. He accidently shoots the wrong person and kills them (but it is NOT a head shot). In the chaos, he then turns and kills Karen and gets ready to take out Mrs. Cooper, when the other dead person rises and attacks someone else...etc, etc, etc...

One scratch, one bite is all it takes. And, in close quarters, in the gloomy-lit basement...

I dunno. Even if that weren't the case, I think I would go up instead of down. I'd want a backdoor, even if it were a third story window. Just in case...

[Philly_SWAT]

I agree that it is a possibility that all hell could break lose down there, however, I would rather take my chances on possible hell breaking loose down there than the for sure hell taking place on the first floor.

But as far as going up goes, you're right. The time they spent boarding up the doors could have been spent tearing down the stairs. If they were upstairs, the zombies couldnt get to them, and they would still have access to the bathrooms. Imagine in the cellar if you had to take a crap. You would have to go in the corner and take a crap in front of a bunch of strangers, and if it smelled really bad, everyone would know it was your crap that smelled. Better than dying I suppose, but still socially incomfortable even in the midst of a zombie crisis. Of course, it is easy to say now they should have torn down the stairs, dont know if anyone would think to do that on day one of the problem.

[deadpunk]

I agree that it is a possibility that all hell could break lose down there, however, I would rather take my chances on possible hell breaking loose down there than the for sure hell taking place on the first floor.


I disagree a bit. I think I would rather face a known problem that have to still contend with that problem and new unseen/unknown problems.

And, from what we saw of Ben, I'd say he was thinking along those terms also. Ben was a big picture type of guy that was looking beyond surviving the first night. Which, was appearantly as far as Cooper could concieve of. The movie starts with the undead rising in the clear light of day, yet Cooper treats the situation as if all they have to do is make it until daylight to survive. Odd.



But as far as going up goes, you're right. The time they spent boarding up the doors could have been spent tearing down the stairs. If they were upstairs, the zombies couldnt get to them... Of course, it is easy to say now they should have torn down the stairs, dont know if anyone would think to do that on day one of the problem.

Tactically speaking, this would have been their best move...unfortunately for us, it would have made for one HELL OF A BORING MOVIE ;) :p :D

[The Alive Man]

Since I'm new I'm not sure if this has been asked before. I wonder if Harry would have been as hateful toward Ben if Ben was a white guy. It seems that his reaction to Ben's authority is beyond any normal reaction. Any suggestion Ben gives is dismissed as crazy. Now I know Harry was ultimately right to want to stay in the basement, but Ben's ideas were valid as well. I think if Ben were a white guy, Harry would've been more open and possibly even accepted him as the guy in charge. What do y'all think?


Usually, white people hates black people (Ben, Peter, Big Daddy) because black people are way cooler than how white people can only dream to become.

That's why GAR's saga is truly the greatest one. It dares to show how much black people are cool despite it's HEAVILY unpopular to show that in racist countries like America, Italy and... the list sadly goes on.

Eh, maybe I'm a little bit off-topic now... well, nevermind. Everyone knows I hate society.

If Ben was white, the movie would have been boring as hell... but if they put Riley Denbo (!!!) and Cholo as leads in NIGHT, well, the coolness is fully restored.

Oh God. Better for Ben to stay black...

[bassman]

Usually, white people hates black people (Ben, Peter, Big Daddy) because black people are way cooler than how white people can only dream to become.

That's why GAR's saga is truly the greatest one. It dares to show how much black people are cool despite it's HEAVILY unpopular to show that in racist countries like America, Italy and... the list sadly goes on.

Eh, maybe I'm a little bit off-topic now... well, nevermind. Everyone knows I hate society.

:eek:

:rockbrow: Racist countries? You really shouldn't lump everyone into the same pile, man. I live and the US and I'm not racist.....just as many, many others aren't.

And the thing about "white people can only dream to be as cool as black people".....hrm....who's judging by skin color, again? Why not say that there are cool people whether they be black, white, or any other color? That would be the non-racist way...

[The Alive Man]

Bassman,

I was joking. America, Italy, Uk... racist people, not-racist people... we're not the same. Never lump everyone in the same pile... OF COURSE! :cool:

Again, I was joking... me and my twisted sense of humour!

[capncnut]

Usually, white people hates black people (Ben, Peter, Big Daddy) because black people are way cooler than how white people can only dream to become...

That's why GAR's saga is truly the greatest one. It dares to show how much black people are cool despite it's HEAVILY unpopular to show that in racist countries like America, Italy and... the list sadly goes on...

Are you for real? :confused:


Again, I was joking... me and my twisted sense of humour!

When you joke about racism then I'd say yeah, that is pretty twisted!

[deadpunk]

Usually, white people hates black people (Ben, Peter, Big Daddy) because black people are way cooler than how white people can only dream to become.

That's why GAR's saga is truly the greatest one. It dares to show how much black people are cool despite it's HEAVILY unpopular to show that in racist countries like America, Italy and... the list sadly goes on.



Are you for real? :confused:


Is it me...or, is this the second or third thread where Alive Man has posted something in the vein of 'black guys are sooooo much cooler than white guys'? :rockbrow:

I'll bet this guy wears sagging pants, cocks his lid to the side and listens to rap & hip-hop the way I breathe oxygen :shifty:

[Khardis]

Since I'm new I'm not sure if this has been asked before. I wonder if Harry would have been as hateful toward Ben if Ben was a white guy. It seems that his reaction to Ben's authority is beyond any normal reaction. Any suggestion Ben gives is dismissed as crazy. Now I know Harry was ultimately right to want to stay in the basement, but Ben's ideas were valid as well. I think if Ben were a white guy, Harry would've been more open and possibly even accepted him as the guy in charge. What do y'all think?

I think the role of Ben was written to be aracial to begin, or it was written for a white man. There is no indication of race based tension at all.

[DEAD BEAT]

end of the world? white women? i think its safe to say ben was not your average blackman or he would be more concerned with gettin' his jimmy waxed!:D

[HLS]

Usually, white people hates black people (Ben, Peter, Big Daddy) because black people are way cooler than how white people can only dream to become.


Whites hate blacks because of their coolness? That is insaine. LOL. :D :p

[coma]

Ben was written as a trucker dirver, presumably white. GAR and Duane Jones themselves said they added no subtext or changed anything because he was black. They discussed and it resisted the urge to address it.
Any subtext is in the eye of the beholder.
If Ben was White it would be the same, though probably an inferior actor.:)

[The Alive Man]

By the way, this is the SECOND thread I rant about black people's coolness... and yes, I'm white. Anyway, I hate hip hop, being a Duran Duran fan.:cool: (someone could argue that DD soldiered as "official member" a black drummer in 1990, Sterling Campbell, but his tenure was very short and lasted one year).

Just joking, I became fond of the black people when I discovered GAR movies. Is it a crime to make jokes out of it? LOL!

[HLS]

By the way, this is the SECOND thread... anyway, I hate hip hop, I'm a Billy Idol/Duran Duran fan.:cool:

I am somewhat of a retro girl myself. Duran Duran, Devo, Talking Heads....etc...

[coma]

By the way, this is the SECOND thread I rant about black people's coolness... and yes, I'm white. Anyway, I hate hip hop, being a Duran Duran fan.:cool: (someone could argue that DD soldiered as "official member" a black drummer in 1990, Sterling Campbell, but his tenure was very short and lasted one year).

Just joking, I became fond of the black people when I discovered GAR movies. Is it a crime to make jokes out of it? LOL!

You/re like 5 minutes from Africa. You never knoew any black people?

I do not understand the attraction to Duran Duran. Back in the day the videos were cool, because they were superior to the others. I never knew there were so many hardcore Duran Duran fans. But I didnt know here wre hardcore GAR fans either. To each his own, people,dont get my taste often either.:)

Jocko Homo! I think the Devo Corporate Anthem is hilarious.

[dracenstein]

I'd prefer the roof myself. Hope it's not raining. Just had a thunderstorm over here, hail and all.