Man's Best Friend

[deadpunk]

You know, GAR never really touched upon what happened to animals in his series. And, I'm not talking about whether or not they would rise...:rolleyes:

In Dawn, we get a brief glimpse of hunters walking bloodhounds through the fields, stuff like that... But, LAND takes place pretty far into the rise from what we see. Where are the animals? No one has any pets in the Green?

In THE STAND, King gives us the explanation that Captain Trips also kills off horses and dogs. I found that to be an excuse to simply leave them out of the story, which was fine...

I dunno, I've seen what can happen when cats and dogs get loose and begin to form packs...so, I'm curious: What do you think the long term effects would be?

[radiokill]

You only occasionaly see the animals that haven't been domesticated, but cats and dogs should be everywhere. In Night and Dawn and Day they haven't had time to multiply (4 - 6 month gestation I think). As for Land, after three years, have they have lost their inherent instinct of begging humans for food? Regained a wild animal's fear of humans?

[Graebel]

zombie squirrels???? :D

[deadpunk]

As for Land, after three years, have they have lost their inherent instinct of begging humans for food? Regained a wild animal's fear of humans?

Yet, I would lean more towards the theory that an animal that had become un-domesticated might be geared more towards scavaging than actual hunting...

And while I could conceive of cats as shunning humans outright, I find it difficult to imagine dogs doing the same for many, many years.

[radiokill]

Yet, I would lean more towards the theory that an animal that had become un-domesticated might be geared more towards scavaging than actual hunting...

And while I could conceive of cats as shunning humans outright, I find it difficult to imagine dogs doing the same for many, many years.

Right. And the best hunting dogs are the most loyal to humans, too. However, my dogs and cats are fed plenty, but kill birds and rodents. They haven't lost the ability to hunt. So I'd imagine that they would hunt and scavenge. I'd have to ask Jack Hannah or somebody about how long it would take for dogs to "forget" about humans :) .

I was just thinking about why we didn't any critters on the recon missions. I forgot about the pet question.

I'm thinking the reason we don't see any critters is because Romero says on the Land commentary that he hasn't decided whether or not animals can become zombies. If they could, it would be harder to tell the infected from the not infected, and harder to defend the bites. So, that might explain pets.

[capncnut]

You know, GAR never really touched upon what happened to animals in his series. And, I'm not talking about whether or not they would rise...

If you listen to the commentary on the Land disc, GAR actually states that he would like to probe the subject of undead animals in 'the future'. Maybe the this will be addressed in Diary?

[coma]

I dont think dogs would shun humans, They can tell the difference between live and dead pretty easy. Though they would avoid zombies because their bite is useless. If Zombies ate Bugs in NOTLD, would they eat dogs? That is id they even eat bugs anymre.

[capncnut]

If Zombies ate Bugs in NOTLD, would they eat dogs?

In GAR's 1st draft screenplay for Dawn he introduced a lonely dog called Adam who is found wandering the mall. At the end, when Flyboy makes his way up the stairs, the dog barks and runs towards the zombies but is heard yelping when he disappears from view. Unless the poor thing got trampled on, I'm guessing they eat dogs too! :D

[deadpunk]

GAR has left alot open to the imaginings/wonderings of his viewers. Some of which is okay, but after four movies...you'd think he'd try and fill in some of the gaps?!

[Danny]

there were zombie rats in a draft of land i read , it was just as big daddy and them was raiding fiddlers green they all came out the water or something, cholo shot one in half and the front half tried to keep going.

he says he wont have any but i reckon that'll change in diary;)

cus ahnds down zombie animals was the best addition to the zombie mythos resi delivered.

[capncnut]

cus ahnds down zombie animals was the best addition to the zombie mythos resi delivered.

"Grrr..." *bang*
"grrr..." *bang*
"grrr..." *bang*
"grrr..." *bang* "yelp!" :lol:

[coma]

there were zombie rats in a draft of land i read , it was just as big daddy and them was raiding fiddlers green they all came out the water or something, cholo shot one in half and the front half tried to keep going.

he says he wont have any but i reckon that'll change in diary;)

cus ahnds down zombie animals was the best addition to the zombie mythos resi delivered.
If all the dead animals turned into zombies there is no way anyone could survive unless they only went after other animals.


I think Resident Evil was utterly lame. Im kinda surprised so many people like it. Is it becasue they like the game?

[radiokill]

If all the dead animals turned into zombies there is no way anyone could survive unless they only went after other animals.


I think Resident Evil was utterly lame. Im kinda surprised so many people like it. Is it becasue they like the game?

never thought about that....where are all the zombie dogs on the surface???? if that happened, nobody would live. except maybe somebody in a self-sufficient sealab surviing on various vegetation.............unless there was zombified vegetation!!!

[coma]

never thought about that....where are all the zombie dogs on the surface???? if that happened, nobody would live. except maybe somebody in a self-sufficient sealab surviing on various vegetation.............unless there was zombified vegetation!!!

Zombie roaches, zombie rats, mosquitos, worms, racoons, cats
It's a stretch and it goes on and on

[Danny]

never thought about that....where are all the zombie dogs on the surface???? if that happened, nobody would live. except maybe somebody in a self-sufficient sealab surviing on various vegetation.............unless there was zombified vegetation!!!

i think we just found out the backstory to sealab 2021:lol:

[capncnut]

In a predatory sense, would there be any difference in a zombiefied shark if it was compared to a living one? Whoa, I almost wandered into Fulci territory but not quite. :lol:

[radiokill]

In a predatory sense, would there be any difference in a zombiefied shark if it was compared to a living one? Whoa, I almost wandered into Fulci territory but not quite. :lol:

:lol: :lol:

Yeah, I think fish would think that is was just floating carrion and the shark would be able to eat anything in its path if it was able to get used to the spin. I think since they'd be less coordinated, because of inbalance they'd spin the etire time they swam.

[deadpunk]

on an interesting side note; did you know that shark repellent is made from extracting fluid from the flesh of dead sharks? Sharks refuse to swim in the same waters as one of their dead kin... So, a zombie shark might actually have a terrible time getting by...

There's an older story in the Fiction Section that some of you guys might like. It's called "The Not Men" (I think). It goes alot more in the vien of what I was thinking when I started this thread...no zombie animals, but a good quick read anyway...

[radiokill]

on an interesting side note; did you know that shark repellent is made from extracting fluid from the flesh of dead sharks? Sharks refuse to swim in the same waters as one of their dead kin... So, a zombie shark might actually have a terrible time getting by...

There's an older story in the Fiction Section that some of you guys might like. It's called "The Not Men" (I think). It goes alot more in the vien of what I was thinking when I started this thread...no zombie animals, but a good quick read anyway...

that is interesting about sharks and their dead kin :book:

and thanks for the recommendation....btw, weren't you the one that wrote "Get Stuffed", I think that was the title.

[deadpunk]

...btw, weren't you the one that wrote "Get Stuffed", I think that was the title.

Yes, I did. That piece was written as...er, um...retribution for my first piece ever posted here, which also features LD animals. :evil: After posting A HUNTING WE WILL GO, I recieved alot of comments about breaking that particular Romero canon, and my response was always 'Get stuffed!' Another author suggested that I write an actual story entitled that and feature more animals.

Years later, I was thinking that through (when I talked to him again) and started the story. It's more a dark comedy than anything, but I had fun writing it, so...:elol:

[radiokill]

Yes, I did. That piece was written as...er, um...retribution for my first piece ever posted here, which also features LD animals. :evil: After posting A HUNTING WE WILL GO, I recieved alot of comments about breaking that particular Romero canon, and my response was always 'Get stuffed!' Another author suggested that I write an actual story entitled that and feature more animals.

Years later, I was thinking that through (when I talked to him again) and started the story. It's more a dark comedy than anything, but I had fun writing it, so...:elol:

It was pretty funny....reminded me of classic horror comics stuff....I'll have to read A Hunting We Will Go sometime.

[Deadman_Deluxe]

The Not Men is pretty good, though i was personally slightly dismayed to find it added to the fiction section when it was, as it was pretty much the exact same idea for a story i was working on and had almost finished when i found it.

My story was based on the events as seen through the eyes of what the reader would imagine to be a young child, left to fend for itself, when it was infact a dog, which i believe is what the not men was about?

[Mike70]

i think that most domestic dogs would die off. a large majority of them are confined to places they cannot get out of. add to that the fact that dogs have absolutely no idea how to hunt wild game unless they have been taught how to do so, either naturally by other dogs (wolves, african wild dogs) or by humans (all the hunting species).

humans tend to overestimate instinct in animals. yes, the instinct to hunt is there in all dogs but the skills that it takes to do so successfully have to be learned and they have to be learned at a relatively young age.

so i think that there are very few kinds of domestic dog that would stand a chance.

[MoonSylver]

i think that most domestic dogs would die off. a large majority of them are confined to places they cannot get out of. add to that the fact that dogs have absolutely no idea how to hunt wild game unless they have been taught how to do so, either naturally by other dogs (wolves, african wild dogs) or by humans (all the hunting species).

humans tend to overestimate instinct in animals. yes, the instinct to hunt is there in all dogs but the skills that it takes to do so successfully have to be learned and they have to be learned at a relatively young age.

so i think that there are very few kinds of domestic dog that would stand a chance.

Huh. Good point. All of those "Life After People" things made a point of pointing out certain breeds that would go feral again, but in general, yeah, most of 'em are gonna die off.

[Wyldwraith]

Guys you're forgetting something,
Right now this minute, there are HUGE populations of stray and/or Feral dogs and cats in every major city, lurking near every unsecured landfill, and (in the case of feral cats) operating/hunting quite happily on small game in nearly every state in the US.

Yes, a lot of specialized purebreeds, and domesticated dogs in situations/locations from which they cannot escape under their own power before their food and (more importantly) water is gone will die, but more well-rounded breeds, and definitely "mutts" would prosper in a landscape we have depopulated of nearly all predators the size of an adult German Shepard or larger. Yes, hunting skills must be learned, but our garbage and the food we leave behind in various structures that animals can gain access to will tide a great many over until hunger spurs them to begin refining hunting skills they began to learn the moment they began encountering mice and rats after the same human food that the dogs and cats are.

A major die-off of domesticated animal populations is a given, but there is no credible reason to believe that formerly domesticated animals cannot survive long enough to give birth to the next generation of truly feral cats and dogs. Living in Florida, we see TONS of dogs that get loose during major storms/hurricanes etc, that go on to form crude packs that then become major problems for surrounding neighborhoods. Many of these animals when trapped alive or gunned down are wearing tags no more than a year or two out of date. They aren't all the big muscular breeds you'd expect either. I've seen with my own eyes long-term strays/ferals that looked to be Sheltie + Cairn Terrier mixed breeds, some type of Spaniel + Italian Greyhound or Whippet mixed breeds...etc etc. A lot of the dogs with "Sight Hound" ancestry expressed dominantly in their physique are more than fast enough to simply run down small game without any true skill, at least often enough to keep from starving. Haven't any of you guys ever seen a skinny stray that evaded all attempts to capture it, seemed to live in a less than hospitable part of town (like a commercial/industrial area), and stayed around the area, only occasionally being seen for years?

One must also remember that rats and many species of mice have become JUST AS LAZY as our cats and dogs, living off human scraps and garbage as they have for thousands of generations (rat/mice generations) in a row. Experts predict a major die-off of urbanized rodents as well in a "Life After People" type scenario, and much of the cause of that is expected to be predation by formerly domestic animals and zoo/game park/preserve escapees.

Speaking of which, the scene in the Will Smith version of I am Legend, with the deer and the lions in New York? I don't know about New York, but I know for a FACT that Lincoln Park Zoo in Chicago, Illinois has a Disaster Failsafe that will open all cages, pens and enclosures after 10 straight days of the motion-sensors not going off outside the enclosures. Specifically to give the huge numbers of animals inside a chance if something bizarre happens to the human population. I don't know if they STILL have such a feature, but I know it was there in 1994-1995 when I volunteered at Lincoln Park two summers running. Me and the Lion (Big Cat really) House Keeper got well acquainted, and I asked him one day what would happen to all the animals locked in cages and viewing enclosures and such if all the people just never came to work again.

He said something along the lines of "I wouldn't want to be anyone roughing it anywhere near the Park in that case, because the Fail-Safe will release all the animals after only 10 days without any movement outside the enclosures that the sensors recognize as us. On a more disturbing note, in the event someone deliberately and methodically cut all the power, including the back-up, back-up, BACK-UP generators located in each House of the Zoo, all the animals gets turned loose within 24 hours. Won't do the Seals, Walrus and Penguins and the like much good, but you could reasonably expect various types of deer species and large predators urbanizing ala Smith's I am Lengend.

Funny, eh?

[Mike70]

Guys you're forgetting something,
Right now this minute, there are HUGE populations of stray and/or Feral dogs and cats in every major city, lurking near every unsecured landfill, and (in the case of feral cats) operating/hunting quite happily on small game in nearly every state in the US.


i left feral animals out of my post on purpose because they are, well, feral. i confined my post to only those animals that had homes and human owners to take care of them. feral animals have shown the chops to survive and once an animal has gone feral, i don't think the term domestic applies anymore.

i hope that my post was clear enough to indicate that i didn't think all dogs would die off, such a statement is indefensible from a logical standpoint. some would survive but most would die off.

and yeah, i wouldn't want to be anywhere near the cincinnati zoo when something like this went off. the cincy zoo has one of the largest predatory cat populations in captivity anywhere on the planet and southern ohio, with its massive deer population, would be a fricking paradise to them.

[Wyldwraith]

Very well written and concise Mike,
I agree, and should've been more specific. I believe "strays" (which I consider to be homeless but socialized to human contact) pet breeds in many cases have the *potential* to return to a Feral state before starvation/dehydration claims them. It's a given that they will be disadvantaged compared to offspring of Feral crossbreeds that have been Feral from birth, but they can make it, I've seen it happen several times. We have people down here who are awful enough human beings to one day just turn a now-unwanted cat out of the house and never let it back in. I've reported several of em, but in the interim if no one intervenes the cats seem to hang around their property for a couple days, then disappear to only be occasionally seen. Then you see a sudden upswing in kittens/young cats around your area, telling you they survived to reproduce.

We had a couple years in a row where the Feral/stray dogs and cats were close to exterminating the songbirds and squirrels, which pissed off a lot of women (especially elderly widows for some reason). Due to senior citizens having great pull down here in Central Florida, when more than fifteen of em start bitching about the same thing regularly, something happens to remedy matters. In this case we had like 6-8 Animal Control guys setting dozens of live-traps, and patrolling at dusk and sunrise with tranq guns to deal with the truly dangerous dogs reported (a few rottwheiler (sp?) + something mixed breeds, and some Shepher/Doberman mixed breeds it looked like). Ironically, the much feared Pitbull takes AGES to lose its socialized nature once well-socialized as a pet. I've encountered stray Pit bulls that spooked me, but I kept my cool and called out to them friendly-like, and they started wagging their tails and came over and insistently butted my leg to get petted, one with a three-year-out-of-date tag on him.

And don't even get me STARTED on the SHEER IDIOCY of abandoning an animal without even TAKING ITS TAG OFF. HULLO, McFLY!!, why not just report yourself to Animal Control for Cruelty to Animals and go turn yourself in at the Deputy's Station to save time? ::shakes head::

But anyways, yes, there's a stark difference between long-since-Feral and merely stray animals. Many of the latter won't make it, and many pets will die in pounds and rescue shelters or chained in the backyard if all the people die (such as a zombie apocalypse).

Incidentally, disasters have shown us that many people DO liberate pets they cant take with them when either being evacuated or heading long-term to some sort of shelter. Thousands of cats, dogs and birds were turned loose in New Orleans for instance. Same thing several years earlier in Homestead, Florida, right before Hurricane Andrew flattened it. So at least some % of pets would have some slim chance at survival we wouldnt otherwise expect if people saw the disaster coming.

Just my rambling .02

[Wyldwraith]

Update: That Monster Quest episode I was referencing, about the urbanized wild dog packs in American Cities is on the History Channel right this minute. Started like 4-5 mins ago. Covers a bunch of really interesting info related to the dangers of feral and returning-to-the-wild dogs and cats.