Man sets self on fire ...

[DVW5150]

Chicago Nov 7 th ...A man set fire to himself protesting the war in Iraq . He set himself ablaze after dousing himself w/ gasoline (ironic?) in the middle of traffic . He set up a video camera also posted on his own website his suicide note .Reports stated that his suicide was a " traffic nusiance "...Iraq Burns , we shop , sick .:mad: I dont have a link for you to see the story ...Visit RandiRhodes.com for more info ...

[Eyebiter]

Ok so a crazy anti-war protestor from Chicago decides to commit suicide because of the war in Iraq. Method was he burned himself in public.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2474900,00.html

What's your point?

The guy was a dumbass.

[DVW5150]

Ok so a crazy anti-war protestor from Chicago decides to commit suicide because of the war in Iraq. Method was he burned himself in public.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2474900,00.html

What's your point? The guy was a dumbass.
Lost cause here , if I have to explain it .The point is lost . Dumbasses tailgate , dumbasses butt inline at the grocery store , dumbasses retort with cold indifference to tradgedy ...This thread is a mistake . Making some enemies I am ...:mad:Sad to call him names ... So in your opinion he was doing the world a favor by commiting suicide ? One less Dumbass .

[radiokill]

Lost cause here , if I have to explain it .The point is lost . Dumbasses tailgate , dumbasses butt inline at the grocery store , dumbasses retort with cold indifference to tradgedy ...This thread is a mistake .Making some enemies I am ...:mad:

the only tragedy here is that the guy didn't receive psychiatric care before it was too late. it takes a dumbass not to realize that. :D

[Eyebiter]

Hoisting a jerrycan of petrol and burning yourself to a crispy critter just doesn't seem to be a very effective method of showing political dissent in today's society.

Wouldn't a more constructive method like writing letters, attending prayer meetings, giving a charitable donation, lobbying political officials, or demonstrating be a more effective way of getting your point across?

[radiokill]

Hoisting a jerrycan of petrol and burning yourself to a crispy critter just doesn't seem to be a very effective method of showing political dissent in today's society.

Wouldn't a more constructive method like writing letters, attending prayer meetings, giving a charitable donation, lobbying political officials, or demonstrating be a more effective way of getting your point across?

seriously, if you're retarded enough to set yourself on fire, who's going to think you're rational enough to have a credible opinion

[DVW5150]

Hoisting a jerrycan of petrol and burning yourself to a crispy critter just doesn't seem to be a very effective method of showing political dissent in today's society.

Wouldn't a more constructive method like writing letters, attending prayer meetings, giving a charitable donation, lobbying political officials, or demonstrating be a more effective way of getting your point across?
Thats the point , but its lost ... not only is the act he committed tragic , but the indifference is hideous . Attend prayer meetings? Maybe he came to his drastic decsion though prayer . If you demonstrate in this country , or speak out , you will either be jailed or killed . So he just spead up the process . Its not effective , and thats what so friggin disturbing .

[coma]

Wouldn't a more constructive method like writing letters, attending prayer meetings, giving a charitable donation, lobbying political officials, or demonstrating be a more effective way of getting your point across?

Praying? Thats very effective
Not.

[radiokill]

Thats the point , but its lost ... not only is the act he committed tragic , but the indifference is hideous . Attend prayer meetings? Maybe he came to his drastic decsion though prayer . If you demonstrate in this country , or speak out , you will either be jailed or killed . So he just spead up the process . Its not effective , and thats what so friggin disturbing .

no, it's not disturbing. if a bunch of people could band together and like heatherns and change the world, that would be disturbing. then whoever had the most numbers and/or passion would rule. things work fine the way the are. We've got the closest thing you could have to literal democracy w/out the country falling apart, save maybe India.

[DVW5150]

no, it's not disturbing. if a bunch of people could band together and like heatherns and change the world, that would be disturbing. then whoever had the most numbers and/or passion would rule. things work fine the way the are. We've got the closest thing you could have to literal democracy w/out the country falling apart, save maybe India.
Whats disturbing is the riddicule , and the fact I must point it out . I am not talking about changing the world either . At the very least , I think I have spurned a thread that will be rife with hostility and little understanding . Peace , folks . sheesh .:barf:


Praying? Thats very effective
Not.

Amen brother !

[Tricky]

Theres other ways of protesting,rather than killing yourself in one of the most painful ways ever!i wonder if he regretted his actions when his skin started bubbling up?yeah it got him noticed,but it wont stop the war & as proved here,most people would say he needed psychiatric help rather than that he had a valid point.
Bit like that iranian asylum seeker who stitched his eyes & mouth up because he wanted to stay in Britain
http://130.246.192.24/content/images/2006_1033.JPG

[radiokill]

I wouldn't pisson somebody that set himself on fire to protest something. He's ridiculed for doing something ridiculous. Like eyebiter mentioned, there are many alternatives. If you set yourself on fire, you are a quitter. I know you are disturbed about the "traffic nuisance" bit, but one of the biggest problems we have in this country is feeling sorry for people doing stupid things. I agree, if someone was watching that online and didn't phone the police or had time to prevent and didn't try, that's sad. But don't think that guy died doing something honorable. If he could've been saved, he should've been taken to the nuthouse. Ok, so maybe that first line was an exaggeration, but you get my point? The guy didn't deserve respect nor a rescue, but good folks should've helped him anyway.

[HLS]

How sad. And people pretty much did not notice his statment. He was just seen as an annoyance to commuters. Very tragic.

[Tricky]

To anyone who didnt see his website he probably just looked like a psych patient having an "episode" anyway!I'd have been shocked if i'd seen it happen & i'd have felt very sorry for him,but his protest would have been the last thing on my mind.
I have no sympathy for people who protest by causing scenes like this either
http://www.knowledgedrivenrevolution.com/Profiles/London_Bombings/Multimedia/Bus_Above.jpg

[radiokill]

the tragic thing is that we have a world full of people denouncing God and scoffing at the power of prayer so that people like him aren't reached before it's too late ......and my apologies for being rash or bitter, there's no excuse for that.

[HLS]

the tragic thing is that we have a world full of people denouncing God and scoffing at the power of prayer so that people like him aren't reached before it's too late ......and my apologies for being rash or bitter, there's no excuse for that.


I mean he was probably crazy to start with but there are so many uncaring people in this world. I am sure someone at some time saw this guy needed someone to reach out to him and obviously that never happened.

[radiokill]

I mean he was probably crazy to start with but there are so many uncaring people in this world. I am sure someone at some time saw this guy needed someone to reach out to him and obviously that never happened.

yeah...and lot of people that do care are afraid or don't know what to do. I'm thinking of a guy I knew from school....he was a nut. I was trying to think of how to talk to him w/ out setting him off....and he wound up stealing my girlfriend's paycheck so I never talked to him again. I just know he's gonna flip out one day. That's one person I've known that I've forgotten to pray for...good thing we talked about this :)

[DVW5150]

To anyone who didnt see his website he probably just looked like a psych patient having an "episode" anyway!I'd have been shocked if i'd seen it happen & i'd have felt very sorry for him,but his protest would have been the last thing on my mind.
I have no sympathy for people who protest by causing scenes like this either
http://www.knowledgedrivenrevolution.com/Profiles/London_Bombings/Multimedia/Bus_Above.jpg

Tricky , the guy didnt hurt anybody else by what he did . I wouldnt eaquate his solitary suicide w/ terrorist acts . A man did the same in front of the pentagon in 1968 , to show 'severe' opposition to Americas involvement in south east asia ... the man did what he did because he devoutly cherishes the sanctity of life , its a buddist thing that I cant explain .


the tragic thing is that we have a world full of people denouncing God and scoffing at the power of prayer so that people like him aren't reached before it's too late ......and my apologies for being rash or bitter, there's no excuse for that.

We are all looking at this world though our own eyes ...buddist saying ... :skull:

[coma]

the tragic thing is that we have a world full of people denouncing God and scoffing at the power of prayer so that people like him aren't reached before it's too late ......and my apologies for being rash or bitter, there's no excuse for that.
You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.
Mine being That while it may seem useful to some, in my experience I have found it to be worthless. If somebody prays for me I am affected more by someone taking the time to do the only thing they can to help (which is very appreciated) than by some being singling me out to do me a solid.

I see a world full of people who love "God" so much they will
do nothing, because of the coming jubilee
Blow themselves and others up
I prayed plenty and things got worse. I guess that's just a test:|

You're bitter.
I'm bitter that life can be so sucky that people turn to magic to get relief that almost never comes.

I think the prayer meeting has more to do with constructive support than any wishlist.

I went to church/Sunday school plenty. I have earned my right to say anything I want. Not that you have to earn a right.

[radiokill]

You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.
Mine being That while it may seem useful to some, in my experience I have found it to be worthless. If somebody prays for me I am affected more by someone taking the time to do the only thing they can to help (which is very appreciated) than by some being singling me out to do me a solid.

I see a world full of people who love "God" so much they will
do nothing, because of the coming jubilee
Blow themselves and others up
I prayed plenty and things got worse. I guess that's just a test:|

You're bitter.
I'm bitter that life can be so sucky that people turn to magic to get relief that almost never comes.

I think the prayer meeting has more to do with constructive support than any wishlist.

I went to church/Sunday school plenty. I have earned my right to say anything I want. Not that you have to earn a right.

somebody's running from God :) ....He'll chase you, He's always chasing you :)

[DVW5150]

You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.
Mine being That while it may seem useful to some, in my experience I have found it to be worthless. If somebody prays for me I am affected more by someone taking the time to do the only thing they can to help (which is very appreciated) than by some being singling me out to do me a solid.

I see a world full of people who love "God" so much they will
do nothing, because of the coming jubilee
Blow themselves and others up
I prayed plenty and things got worse. I guess that's just a test:|

You're bitter.
I'm bitter that life can be so sucky that people turn to magic to get relief that almost never comes.

I think the prayer meeting has more to do with constructive support than any wishlist.

I went to church/Sunday school plenty. I have earned my right to say anything I want. Not that you have to earn a right.

It is worthless to set fire to yourself , if the point of sacrafice is lost . It has spurned this discussion . I too earned the right to speak my mind (US Army spclst .10th mtn div 90-94, Somalia , Mogadishu /chalk 4 ) not that that makes a difference . Let me just say this , when you have to kill a child who is shooting an AK at you , it changes you forever . I mean , FOREVER . Buddist beliefs are among the most peaceful on this green earth , you'll never hear about them killing a doctor that gives "birth control options" to women , setting off a nutreint bomb at a goverment building , or flying airplanes into skyscrapers .

[Terran]

the tragic thing is that we have a world full of people denouncing God and scoffing at the power of prayer so that people like him aren't reached before it's too late .......

I would say that the majority of people in the world believe in higher power of some sort... so I dont really know where your coming from saying that the world is full of people denouncing God....Unless you are including the portions of the world that are worshipping the wrong "version update" of a specific god...

And as far as the power of prayer goes ....
Just dont tell anyone your praying for them if they are going to have heart surgery.... "In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for had a slightly higher rate of complications." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/)
:eek:



Now as far as this guys protest/statement/suicide goes... People tend to be very quick in labeling anything they dont understand as crazy... Especially when it involves the human body and life... So the vast majority of people, me included, would think that any voluntary action that directly results in ones death is crazy... This is a very convienant thought process because it then becomes very easy to shrug off anything the "crazy person" may have been trying to say....

Now lets point out here that he wasnt flinging poop at people, bouncing off the walls, and ranting unintelligently... His actions seemed delibrate ...he set up a website and recorded the event...

There thems to be a sentiment that the "deranged" could never have a poignant observation...





seriously, if you're retarded enough to set yourself on fire, who's going to think you're rational enough to have a credible opinion

Originally Posted by Eyebiter
Hoisting a jerrycan of petrol and burning yourself to a crispy critter just doesn't seem to be a very effective method of showing political dissent in today's society.
Yeah he could have been way more effective if he blew up a building or two... :eek:



This all being said... It is possible that his whole "protest" could all be smoke screen... He may have just wanted to commit suicide... and wanted people to remember/talk about him....

[DVW5150]

Terran wrote , quote : " Yeah he could have been way more effective if he blew up a building or two...
This all being said... It is possible that his whole "protest" could all be smoke screen... He may have just wanted to commit suicide... and wanted people to remember/talk about him.... "
__________________
Yes , you have some shed some light on this ... I would be interested to know if he was chemically dependant .

[Arcades057]

So because the guy killed himself to protest the war in Iraq it somehow makes teh anti-war side more moral, or right?

Does this mean that every guy/girl who kills themselves over a boyfriend/girlfriend leaving them are now in the right?

So if someone FOR the war suddenly lights themself on fire to protest the war protests and the idiotic liberal idea of understaaaaaanding why the terrorists hate us rather than killing them, does that mean that he PRO war side is in the right? :barf:

Too much to think of, but what I gather from the OP poster is that

Kill yourself for a cause and your cause gains credence. Either that or because someone killed themself for HIS (the OP poster) cause, the cause gains credence. Probably the latter. And don't try to say "Aw geez, I didn't know that posting on a dead site about some wacko lighting himself on fire would get me some pretty nasty posts!" Of course you did! Just like any time I post politics I get set for a war. You rolls the dice, you takes your chance. :rockbrow:

[DVW5150]

So because the guy killed himself to protest the war in Iraq it somehow makes teh anti-war side more moral, or right?

Does this mean that every guy/girl who kills themselves over a boyfriend/girlfriend leaving them are now in the right?

So if someone FOR the war suddenly lights themself on fire to protest the war protests and the idiotic liberal idea of understaaaaaanding why the terrorists hate us rather than killing them, does that mean that he PRO war side is in the right? :barf:

Too much to think of, but what I gather from the OP poster is that

Kill yourself for a cause and your cause gains credence. Either that or because someone killed themself for HIS (the OP poster) cause, the cause gains credence. Probably the latter. And don't try to say "Aw geez, I didn't know that posting on a dead site about some wacko lighting himself on fire would get me some pretty nasty posts!" Of course you did! Just like any time I post politics I get set for a war. You rolls the dice, you takes your chance. :rockbrow: You're a great person! You make equations , and release answers like a queaf . Thanks for supporting the war effort with your sacrafice !

[Terran]

Edit/Edition


Alright I felt I was bit unclear in my initial post....so I added this

When I hear of events like this I either say or think "What an IDIOT!...." or "That person is CRAZY!".....
but this is because I am both callous and generally apathetic...which comes from my conclusion that there is no arcane purpose or meaning in my life or any others.

So unless I delibrately try to be empathetic I cannot relate to the idea of sacrificing ones life for a statement...an ideal.... or anything else....(parental instincts excluded)...

So I dont know if this was a Buddist-like protest or an elaborate suicide... or whether it was somewhere inbetween...

It just seems pointless to mention alternatives or discredit the person when the inspiration seem to be unclear....

[radiokill]

I would say that the majority of people in the world believe in higher power of some sort... so I dont really know where your coming from saying that the world is full of people denouncing God....Unless you are including the portions of the world that are worshipping the wrong "version update" of a specific god... Just one God....and look how you're chomping at the bit to make Him irrevelant.....just some higher power. I wonder why?


And as far as the power of prayer goes ....
Just dont tell anyone your praying for them if they are going to have heart surgery.... "In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for had a slightly higher rate of complications." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/)
:eek:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: A study of the power of prayer :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


...if he blew up a building or two...

There's a difference between using force to deter future attacks and lending understanding to a conflicting point of view.

as for the edit, Terran, this whole forum and website is pointless in that train of thought. That's all we do here is BS. It also seems pretty pointless to try to discredit your Creator, but He loves you anyway :) .

[Terran]

Just one God....and look how you're chomping at the bit to make Him irrevelant.....just some higher power. I wonder why?.


I was using the term "higher power" because I wanted to be inclusive of all religions that awknowledge a "Creator" of some fashion or another...

So Ill include the above responce and the one you said previouslly


Originally Posted by radiokill
the tragic thing is that we have a world full of people denouncing God and scoffing at the power of prayer so that people like him aren't reached before it's too late .......
Unless you are referring to a specific faith's god the statment doesnt really make any sense....

I am only left to assume that when you say "a world full of people denouncing God"....that you are referring to a world in which the majority worship/believe in something other than the Christian God?...




:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: A study of the power of prayer :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
*shrugs*....it was a simple study that gave evidence towards anonymous prayer having no effect on the real world....and some evidence that when people actually know people are praying for them that it could have negative effects...


But hell I dont want to turn this thread into a religous one....I think you are the one that first brought up religion....so if you want to continue this discussion more than PM me....


But it seems like this thread is turning into a bit of a flame fest anyhow...so Ill probally just avoid posting in this thread anymore anyways


There's a difference between using force to deter future attacks and lending understanding to a conflicting point of view.

Ok I dont really understand what this statement is referring to....the war in Iraq?...or a better way for him to be heard?...I dont really get how this statement was a responce to the one I made....



as for the edit, Terran, this whole forum and website is pointless in that train of thought. That's all we do here is BS.

Not entirely... it would not have been pointless to comment/discuss on how/why this action would have little impact on american society and the general american mindset... Its just that if you want to start to generate alternatives you have to make some base assumptions for it to work...

[radiokill]

I only started to talk about my God because posters were laughing about prayer........I might send you a message later if I get time.

but base assumptions had been made.....he was videotaping a public suicide in order to protest the war!!!!! why do you keep insisting that was not what we assumed his motives to be????

[dmbfanintn]

So because the guy killed himself to protest the war in Iraq it somehow makes teh anti-war side more moral, or right?

Does this mean that every guy/girl who kills themselves over a boyfriend/girlfriend leaving them are now in the right?

So if someone FOR the war suddenly lights themself on fire to protest the war protests and the idiotic liberal idea of understaaaaaanding why the terrorists hate us rather than killing them, does that mean that he PRO war side is in the right? :barf:

Too much to think of, but what I gather from the OP poster is that

Kill yourself for a cause and your cause gains credence. Either that or because someone killed themself for HIS (the OP poster) cause, the cause gains credence. Probably the latter. And don't try to say "Aw geez, I didn't know that posting on a dead site about some wacko lighting himself on fire would get me some pretty nasty posts!" Of course you did! Just like any time I post politics I get set for a war. You rolls the dice, you takes your chance. :rockbrow:

WRONG!!!

The original poster's point was that a man lit himself on fire in the middle of public and the only public response was that it was a traffic nusiance.

The cold hearted response of the public was his point, not the reasons why.

READ MY NEW SIG

[coma]

I only started to talk about my God because posters were laughing about prayer........I might send you a message later if I get time.

but base assumptions had been made.....he was videotaping a public suicide in order to protest the war!!!!! why do you keep insisting that was not what we assumed his motives to be????
I was not laughing, Just extremely dubious that going to a prayer group and praying would make a difference to a suicsidal, deranged man OR a man intent on drawing attention in an extreme manner to the horror of war.
and God is following me
with a handful of bills and a Black Robe and Scyth.

[_liam_]

jesus is lawwwd.

i dunno if jesus was actually the son of god, but he was, imo, definitely some kind of cross between the prince of persia and neo from the matrix, who had figured out ESP and stuff like that, and he gets my respect and deference for that.

what do you atheist/agnostic dudes make of the design argument?

[coma]

jesus is lawwwd.

i dunno if jesus was actually the son of god, but he was, imo, definitely some kind of cross between the prince of persia and neo from the matrix, who had figured out ESP and stuff like that, and he gets my respect and deference for that.

what do you atheist/agnostic dudes make of the design argument?
Whatever. I just don't want it considered Science and law. And don't nobosy come knocking on my door with a pamphlet:p. I am not interested in any kind of religion enough to rate being athiest.

What is he was like Superman, a powerful Alien for a galaxy far, far away. Able to smite nonbelievers in a single bound. Truth, Justice and the Aremaic way.

[_liam_]

lol, nah i don't want any of those things either, in my opinion faith is something you should never discuss with someone in a preachy or communal capacity, it's a series of conclusions best arrived on one's own, and unaided, imo.

i was just wondering what you think of the whole "if you found a pocket watch comprised of intricate moving parts in a field would you assume it grew out of the ground or was created by a skilled hand" thing.

[strayrider]

If you demonstrate in this country , or speak out , you will either be jailed or killed.

C'mon, dude, that is just not true. It is perfectly legal to speak out and demonstrate in the United States.

However, if your concept of demonstration is throwing rocks and bottles at the police, then yes, you'll probably be jailed for that.

I don't know of any cases of demonstrators being killed by police recently. I mean, Kent State happened over thirty years ago, right?

-stray-

[Danny]

jeez talk about lack of origionality:p




i was just wondering what you think of the whole "if you found a pocket watch comprised of intricate moving parts in a field would you assume it grew out of the ground or was created by a skilled hand" thing.

huh.

thats a new one to me, id assume someone dropped it.

[Terran]

jeez talk about lack of origionality:p



huh.

thats a new one to me, id assume someone dropped it.

lol.....

What they are talking about is this


The watchmaker analogy, or watchmaker argument, is a teleological argument for the existence of God. By way of an analogy the argument states that design implies a designer. In the 17th and 18th centuries, the analogy was used (by Descartes and Boyle, for instance) as a device for explaining the structure of the universe and God's relationship to it. Later, the analogy played a prominent role in natural theology and the "argument from design," where it was used to support arguments for the existence of God and for the intelligent design of the universe.

[radiokill]

Terran, you see what I mean now about a world full of people denouncing God....this kind of response is everywhere.

I love the Ghandi quote, dmb. That is one that a lot Christians need to here. A lot of people claim to Christian (like Christ) but they don't make the slightest effort to follow His teachings. However, why did you feel the need to capitalize everything but Christ? Assuming intentional disrespect, that's just mean.

[dmbfanintn]

However, why did you feel the need to capitalize everything but Christ? Assuming intentional disrespect, that's just mean.


I didn't change anything about the quote. That is how Ghandi wrote it originally, with the words "Christ" and "Christians" in lower case.

There was no intent on my own personal part in the lower case letters.

I do not try to promote nor discredit any religion. I do not believe in "Christianity" as it stands today. I do believe Jesus was a real person, but do not believe he was the son of a "God" as I do not believe God exisits in the manner that most people do.

As you can see (and if you will look back) I always capitilize proper names even in religion. All religions. I will capitilize Jah's nmae, God's name as well as Muhommed's name.

Please do not take offense from it.

Do you think it would be more compassionate of me to change the sig to make them capital? As I said, I copied straight from the original way in which it was written.

Actually, I could be wrong on that as well since it came off a website about Ghandi, I just assumed they would put in the way he wrote it!

Damn, now I'm confused!!:confused: :confused:

[radiokill]

Actually, I could be wrong on that as well since it came off a website about Ghandi, I just assumed they would put in the way he wrote it!

Damn, now I'm confused!!:confused: :confused:

:lol:

Being the peaceful guy Ghandi was, I don't see why he would do that either. I don't know much about about Ghandi aside from that brief mention of civil disobedience in the history books. Did he write or just speak? Anyway, I was wondering if that was an oral or written quote? If oral, it could have the journalist's way of doing it. I guess these questions could be answered with a few simple google searches, but I'm fixin' to print some stuff from the fiction section before I head off to the john (the disgusting one at that, they're doing drug tests in the good bathroom).

Edit: Wait...is that a different Ghandi altogether? I always thought it was "Mohatma" or "Mahatama". Then again, some peoples of that area use many names.

[dmbfanintn]

:lol:


Edit: Wait...is that a different Ghandi altogether? I always thought it was "Mohatma" or "Mahatama". Then again, some peoples of that area use many names.

Same person:

Wiki site (clicky linky) (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mohandas_Gandhi)

Here's another great quote by him:

I came to the conclusion long ago … that all religions were true and also that all had some error in them, and whilst I hold by my own, I should hold others as dear as Hinduism. So we can only pray, if we are Hindus, not that a Christian should become a Hindu … But our innermost prayer should be a Hindu should be a better Hindu, a Muslim a better Muslim, a Christian a better Christian.

Check the sig now. I changed it to capitals. Thanks for poiting that out and discussing it like an adult. Had you been an ass about, I would have too. You rationally pointed that out, and I respect your feelings on it. I do not want to offend.

WOW!!! Some of us can get along around here, can't we??

[coma]

Edit: Wait...is that a different Ghandi altogether? I always thought it was "Mohatma" or "Mahatama". Then again, some peoples of that area use many names.
Mahatma (spell?) is a title, Mohandas is his first name. The other famous Ghandi is Indira, his daughter pretty much always referd to as "Indira Ghandi"

[radiokill]

Mahatma (spell?) is a title, Mohandas is his first name. The other famous Ghandi is Indira, his daughter pretty much always referd to as "Indira Ghandi"

oh... didn't she become queen or prime minister and she and her whole "cabinet" or whatever assasinated.

[radiokill]

Same person:

Check the sig now. I changed it to capitals. Thanks for poiting that out and discussing it like an adult. Had you been an ass about, I would have too. You rationally pointed that out, and I respect your feelings on it. I do not want to offend.

WOW!!! Some of us can get along around here, can't we??

:) thanks!

[coma]

Terran, you see what I mean now about a world full of people denouncing God....
I didn't denounce it as much as I don't give a sh*t.
On TV, in person, newspapers everybodys talking about CHristianity, the power of prayer, War on Christmas(?!?). You hear one person out of a thousand saying its all BS. Problem is, Christians hate hearing that at all from people in their own society.
It is OK, in person, to say God is Lord, love, a lovely sandwhich. If you respond. No, or worse, "who Cares" they are horribly offended and rolls their eyes and look at you with pity and Smuggery "he loves YOU, you just haven't come around YET". If The whole world was "denouncing" religion, we wouldn't have to hear about it in evangilistical glowing term 24 hours a day.
Hense the abundence of Critisism on the Net. It is almost impossible to do in person because it is utterly taboo. Even the one's who critisze regularly in person see the drppped jaws, the condesension and the scary zealot anger.

I have real problems, instead of real solutions I get pray to the big man and if your extra pious you can get saved after your dead. Yippee! Thanks for the practical solutions.

That said, you are entitled and encouraged to do and believe what you want to. I am not trying to ridicule you. I just strongly disagee with the comment that the world is denouncing Christ.


( I don't look to offend unneccasrily. I make a lot of typos and there can be so many I give up fixing them all. I CAN actually spell.:)"

[radiokill]

I didn't denounce it as much as I don't give a sh*t.
On TV, in person, newspapers everybodys talking about CHristianity, the power of prayer, War on Christmas(?!?). You hear one person out of a thousand saying its all BS. Problem is, Christians hate hearing that at all from people in their own society.
It is OK, in person, to say God is Lord, love, a lovely sandwhich. If you respond. No, or worse, "who Cares" they are horribly offended and rolls their eyes and look at you with pity and Smuggery "he loves YOU, you just haven't come around YET". If The whole world was "denouncing" religion, we wouldn't have to hear about it in evangilistical glowing term 24 hours a day.
Hense the abundence of Critisism on the Net. It is almost impossible to do in person because it is utterly taboo. Even the one's who critisze regularly in person see the drppped jaws, the condesension and the scary zealot anger.

I have real problems, instead of real solutions I get pray to the big man and if your extra pious you can get saved after your dead. Yippee! Thanks for the practical solutions.

That said, you are entitled and encouraged to do and believe what you want to. I am not trying to ridicule you. I just strongly disagee with the comment that the world is denouncing Christ.


( I don't look to offend unneccasrily. I make a lot of typos and there can be so many I give up fixing them all. I CAN actually spell.:)"

Salvation doesn't happen after your dead, it happens when your alive. One is not saved from Hell. One is saved from the debt of sin (of which damnation to Hell is a consequence), any power that Satan or demons could hold over a human, and the dominion of sin.

Christians acting angrily are not following Christian teachings. And you shouldn't be offended by pity and smugness...these people believe that you are missing out on knowing, communicating, and serving the Creator and Master of this Universe. If they were to say, "Man, I wish I could be as indifferent as you on the subject," that would not be good.

Excuse the word denounce, but the world is full of people who, regardless of whether or not they believe He exists or use His name, do not serve God.

I'm not trying to anger you, I just wanted to clarify a few things. Don't let this anger you either, but I am offended whenever you say you don't believe in God that you do it with harsh, negative, or joking tones. I just hope that may help you better understand my reactions.

:)

[_liam_]

Leviticus 20:9 "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall surely be put to death"

Psalm 137:9 "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones"

thoughts?

also the words in corinthians declaring it "a disgrace" for men to wear their hair long are rather at odds with Aquinas' whole ethical naturalism thing, don't you think?

i'm not starting fires here, (i'm a deist with an abrahamic bias,so i'm sorta on your side) i'm just leaping at the chance to get the opinion of a christian who seems to have full command of reason :D

[LoSTBoY]

*Enters thread*

:shifty:

Uh, oh. They are quoting the bible.

:shifty:

*Slowly backs out of thread*

[dmbfanintn]

*Enters thread*

:shifty:

Uh, oh. They are quoting the bible.

:shifty:

*Slowly backs out of thread*

Shoot, I aint going anywhere. That is some of the best stuff. Listening to a Christian trying to defend the atrocities that are in the bible.

If you read the bible, you will know that God supports slavery and the oppresion of women.

At least that is what the bible says!

[_liam_]

i'm not a member of the god squad, don't worry. i was raised catholic before defecting to various occult circles, and finally coming to the conclusion that there is one grand architect of the universe, and that god/satan are all aspects of the same thing, blah blah blah.

i think jesus was someone who had/developed access to some kind of occult (as in hidden) power linked to god.

i think he was the overman nietzsche fantasised about, ironically enough.

the bible AND nietzsche...now is the time to back away cautiously :lol:

[Danny]

unless your eamon delavera i bet hes rolling up his sleeves and rubbing his hadns together:p

[Kaos]

Don't let this anger you either, but I am offended whenever you say you don't believe in God that you do it with harsh, negative, or joking tones.
:)

Unfortunately no one is entitled to not be offended since what is offensive is subjective.

We do request that folks remain especially civil when discussing matters of religion since people tend to feel strongly about the topic whether you are religious or not.

You guys have been doing great.:)

[LoSTBoY]

I was just joshing with my first post, I would shoot the sh!t with ye but I'm getting used to a new job and I'm knackered. :p

[coma]

Salvation doesn't happen after your dead, it happens when your alive. One is not saved from Hell. One is saved from the debt of sin (of which damnation to Hell is a consequence), any power that Satan or demons could hold over a human, and the dominion of sin.

Christians acting angrily are not following Christian teachings. And you shouldn't be offended by pity and smugness...these people believe that you are missing out on knowing, communicating, and serving the Creator and Master of this Universe. If they were to say, "Man, I wish I could be as indifferent as you on the subject," that would not be good.

Excuse the word denounce, but the world is full of people who, regardless of whether or not they believe He exists or use His name, do not serve God.

I'm not trying to anger you, I just wanted to clarify a few things. Don't let this anger you either, but I am offended whenever you say you don't believe in God that you do it with harsh, negative, or joking tones. I just hope that may help you better understand my reactions.

:)
I didn't say I don't believe in God. I actually can't say one way or the other. Sorry if the goofs offended you. I was trying to keep it light and I guess it feels like a little kid cursing. I guess I felt like being "bad":)

Christians being smug is offensive in the same way as "You're religion is stupid. You believe in something dopey. You are crazy or dumb". The only difference is that is unacceptable while the other is "normal". Its exactly that which makes me utterly uninterested.
When people talk about it hoping to have me catch an interest, I can dig it. Thats natural. That condescension is where the animosity comes from.

Also often when you actually try to have a conversation they can nod smugly and repeat others words and don't even listen. If you aren't asking for the Good Word they don't wanna know, If you point out (gently, in my case) any contradction, they smirk like your retarded.

I grew up around plenty of religion and saying anything even close to negative or questioning was verboten, so I rarely talk about it at all. Me busting out with my actual opinions (about this stuff) in public is new to me.

You're cool with me and I think this is not even close to an argument (not that you said it was). And I am not someone that insists that everybody be just like me. One of my best buds is a total right winger. We connect on what we have in common. The other stuff is left under the rug most of the time, though a heated discussion can be lots of fun as long as we aren't too drunk:D

[DVW5150]

This is very interesting ... I think this discussion may lead to a positive conclusion . :skull: I hope I am not resented in any way for starting this . ;)

[_liam_]

i'm glad you started this topic!
although nobody did answer my question about smashing baby's heads being okayed by the book...

[Terran]

i'm glad you started this topic!
although nobody did answer my question about smashing baby's heads being okayed by the book...

The baby was probally asking for it...:evil:

[coma]

The baby was probally asking for it...:evil:
Aren't they all?