Why I'm getting more and more pecimistic about 'little green men'...

[Neil]

First let me say that I have little doubt life exists else where in the universe. Infact I suspect simple life may even exist else where in out solar system, and probably complex life in small numbers else where in our universe.

However, what I find myself getting more and more sceptical about is complex life (akin to ours) existing in the quantities we hoped for.

Where once it seemed likely every other planetary system would be teeming with complex life, personally I'm getting more and more concerned this is not the case, and infact quite the opposite is likely.

There seems to be so many strokes of luck that mean we exist, and continue to exist, I think this severely limits the chances of green men existing.

Let us consider the number of things that mean complex life can safetly exist on planet earth:-
* The earths magnetic field - Protects us from the harmful bombardments from the sun.
* The moon - Not only sweeps up some objects that may hit us, but more importantly helps keeps the axis of the earth within a small range. Without it, the earth - under the effect of the other gravitational effects - could fluctuate from anything between virtical, or worse case horizontal with 6 months days and nights around the world. It also creates the tides, again which helps life exist.
* Tectonic plates - This helps circulate the material in the upper crust of the earth.
* Jupiter - Helps sweep up a lot of the bodies that could otherwise hit us.
...and the list goes on...

Add then to the list, that even if a life form exists the chances that life is wiped out by a planetary impact, or it wipes itself out by nuclear war, or climatic polution, or simply running out of fossil fuels without getting beyond a low level of technology, and this reduces the odds even further...


So rather the chances of Mr Green man existing maybe on the rolling of two sixes, maybe it's more like getting ten dice and needing tp throw ten sixes, with all the dice needing to land each on top of the other :(


As a final note, if Mr Green man is so common, why is he not here? Why is the sky not alive with communication :(

[Kaos]

Everyone knows the little green men are humans from the future, duh.:rolleyes:

[Mike70]

first off i agree that complex sentient life probably is rare in the galaxy - though when you consider the entire universe and the literally hundreds of billions of galaxies each with hundreds of billions of stars, i think that sentient life exists in quite a number of places in the universe as a whole. the reason that i think life is common in the galaxy (life in general not sentient) is that life on our world is based on the most common elements in the universe- hydrogen, oxygen, carbon, iron, etc. everywhere we look in the galaxy these elements exist in large abundance.

over 200 exoplanets have been found so far - all large planets - the smallest is something like 8 earth masses. some have been found in orbits that would allow liquid water to exist and some like 55 cancri and 46 ursa majoris have 3 or more known planets (and counting). the exciting thing about the planets that are starting to be discovered is that they are not gas giants but rocky worlds like the inner 4 planets of our own system. as technology improves and the next generation of space telescopes goes up we will find more and more planets and they will be smaller planets at that. there have been so-called "good" jupiters found in other solar systems. large planets that sweep up all most of the inbound asteroids/comets and prevent them from impacting the smaller worlds that might exist closer to their parent star.

as for radio - the galaxy is awash in radio noise. radio waves are one of the most common forms of radiation in the universe. we also must take into account that another advanced culture could be using another form of EM radiation for communication like light itself or might even be using atoms or sub-atomic particles as signal carriers. i do not feel that humans are in any way ready to meet an advanced alien culture. any civilization capable of warping space or opening a wormhole (either from the quantum foam or by using gravity) would look at us as children or pets. let's face it - the history of contact on this planet between advanced cultures and primitive ones has been disastrous to say the very least - and we were dealing with our own species. hopefully we are being allowed to grow on our own and to succeed or fail based on our own decisions.

for all of the murder and pain humans are capable of i want to see our species live on- forever (at least until the galaxy itself dies). that is going to require us colonizing other worlds- not now, maybe not in 200 or 300 years (which is nothing in the grand scheme) but eventually if our race is to survive we will have to move beyond this system - somehow. this world will not be inhabitable forever - in fact the sun is going to burn hotter and brighter as it ages to a point several hundred million years from now when it will be over twice as hot and bright as it is now. we have to keep reaching for the stars or we must die as a species.

[DVW5150]

Dangit , the are GRAY ! :skull:

[coma]

Dangit , the are GRAY ! :skull:Why would aliens be gay?

[Terran]

Everyone knows the little green men are humans from the future, duh.:rolleyes:


Heheh I always say that too..... That "UFOs" and "Aliens" are us from the future......

[deadpunk]

We'll never see it in our lifetime, of that I'm convinced. And, the further along we get as a species, the less another species would want to deal with us.

Honestly, if a UFO actually hit the skyline...I think the odds are rather high one govt. or another would simply blast it from existence anyway...

[Danny]

i agree i dont think weve been visited by aliens, though that thing from russia in like the 1800's or whathave you is slightly suspicious:shifty: , but yeah i hink there may like bacteriums and stuff on like titan and places like that but sentient life?, i dont doubt some may exist but nowere near us ,aybe not even soemthign we would consider life, and we wouldnt be "life" to them like....i dunno silicon based crystals or something with some kinda intelligence, not as eloquent as the first post but yeah thats my view, and as for the gay aliens, they come for the gay bars, why the hell would straight aliens come to our planet, "hi mr world leaders we were in the mood for a war and it just so happens we are different to you with our own culture, come on you know you wanna wipe us off the face of our home planet":lol:

theyd have to rethink the god idea a little, if i was christian i would think "oh so maybe he had like a few gardens or whatever and made more than one kind of "man" but you know theres those creationist types who would flip out calling em devils and the like. btu thatd mean a possible changing of the pledge of allegance so thatd be too much work.



on that note how come at the end of the pledge in the u.s it has that "liberty and jutsice for all"?, why doesnt it mention equality for all?

....just a thought thats gonna bug me all day, that and "you think sega would have learned with sonic heroes".

[Neil]

Scipi70 -

If our galaxy was teaming with other civilizations some would be tens or hundreds of millions of years old, have capabilities beyond our comprehension, and be without a doubt space fairing. They would have spread across the galaxy... Why are they not here?

I have a gut feeling that the odd are not in little green mans favour. As I said before maybe the odds are not just throwing a pair of sixes, but infact akin to throwing ten sixes with ALL the dice needing to land one piled on top of the other...

So even if handful of species do exist in our galaxy, maybe space travel is so difficult they've stayed at home...

[OddDNA]

But in the vastness of the universe even if aliens landed on Earth how long have we been keeping "good" records of what happens here?

1000 years? 10,000 years at the most.

IN the vastness of the universe Aliens could have came and went 100s of times and we would have never known....just like you said the odds we very low of there being life it would be even lower for that life to visit at the small window where we are civilized and have not killed each other yet :)

I do believe in intelligent live in the universe...a lot of it...I however, think it is unlikey that we have been visited recently.

[Neil]

But in the vastness of the universe even if aliens landed on Earth how long have we been keeping "good" records of what happens here?

1000 years? 10,000 years at the most.

IN the vastness of the universe Aliens could have came and went 100s of times and we would have never known....just like you said the odds we very low of there being life it would be even lower for that life to visit at the small window where we are civilized and have not killed each other yet :)

I do believe in intelligent live in the universe...a lot of it...I however, think it is unlikey that we have been visited recently.

Given any visit in the last 100,000,000 years would show Earth had a clear chance of developing intelligent life, Arthur C Clarke probably hit the nail on the head... A nice "we woz ere" sign/symbol on the moon should be expected...

I wouldn't be surprised with all the odds (I suspect) are against intelligent life popping up, instead of thousands or millions of intelligent species in the galaxy, perhaps its just dozens or less... Then add to this the rediculous complixities in space travel, maybe it's like a dozen people floating around on rafts in the pacific ocean, just hoping to bump into each other :(

[Danny]

aye good analagy, thuogh thing is, no matter how small a chance is, as long as one exists you never know maybe they did millions of years ago and didnt want to screw with a planet 'prime directive style.

i myself would have beena jerk and written "YOU SUCK" on the moon:p

[OddDNA]

either we are the only ones left or there is noone within range of our puny WWII singal.


No I think we are such a babies in the way of civiliztion how can we expect to know if another being would leave information that they were here.

Have we left any infromation taht would last any amount of time on any planet we have visited through man or machine....aliens could have sent a prob through this area long ago pre human....saw no life worth visiting and kept going knowing they would come around again in a few billion years to check up on us again.

That is another thing 1 millinon years seems long to us because we live a short life, what if another being lives 3-4 millions years per life cycle....stopping by every billion years would seem adequet.

[Danny]

reminds of a bit from an incredible hulk one shot were bruce banner was the only human to survive a world wide nuclear war and he is discovered by an alien robot and he says "did you come to help?", and the robot says "no, just to record many aliens wanted me to make sure" "of what?", "that you were all dead".

[Terran]

Written on the moon in big letters for all to see

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US



If our galaxy was teaming with other civilizations some would be tens or hundreds of millions of years old, have capabilities beyond our comprehension, and be without a doubt space fairing. They would have spread across the galaxy... Why are they not here?

Thats not necessarily true... The age of of a galaxy and a solar system doesnt really have anything to do with wether life exists on it....

Like lets say a given solar system is a hundred million years older than ours....

What if the sun was to hot or to cold for a couple hundred million years.... Like maybe when our sun becomes a red giant the moon Europa might be able to support some more complex life ... (Though it could already have pretty complex life network based on chemoautotrophs)

What if the planet needed a large meteor impact to start off the process and that didnt happen for a couple hundred million years....

Or life could have been developing and maybe even an Evoluionary process begining that would produce intelligent life but then a mass extinction for a large meteor impact siliences it...and the whole process has to start over...
Or conditions may never even develope intelligent life because an Evolutionary process never arises that favors "cognizance"....

Like
the Earth will not be able to sustain life anymore after the next two thousand million years or so, because of natural chemical and geological processes in the Earth and the atmosphere.

The inside of the Earth is still cooling down from its formation, and eventually it will cool down so much that volcanoes stop working and the molten material inside the Earth stops moving around.


So all Im saying is just because places in the universe are older than our section that doesnt really have anything to do with producing life....Its not like theres some sort of cosmic schedule that says if a system is capable of making life it has to do so within its first billion years....

Also a lot of our predicting of life is very biased in that we only expect life coming from processes we see on/in earth... So a lot of our life searching is done looking for life similiar to types of life on earth... Theres a possibility that we cannot really predict what things make up life... What if the other intelligent life out there is based on an entirely different chemical process...

No Lipids, Proteins, polypeptides.... Even the mode of inheritance... what if they do not even have stuff we would call DNA...

So theres a strong possibility that if we found intelligent beings or even non intelligent beings that they would not even be classified as life according to earth's biology....

[LoSTBoY]

Scipi70 -

If our galaxy was teaming with other civilizations some would be tens or hundreds of millions of years old, have capabilities beyond our comprehension, and be without a doubt space fairing. They would have spread across the galaxy... Why are they not here?


Why would they want to touch such an uncivilized greedy race like us. All they have to do is pick up the daily news and see that we are not worthy of their company.

[capncnut]

If our galaxy was teaming with other civilizations some would be tens or hundreds of millions of years old, have capabilities beyond our comprehension, and be without a doubt space fairing. They would have spread across the galaxy... Why are they not here?

I have a gut feeling that the odd are not in little green mans favour. As I said before maybe the odds are not just throwing a pair of sixes, but infact akin to throwing ten sixes with ALL the dice needing to land one piled on top of the other...

So even if handful of species do exist in our galaxy, maybe space travel is so difficult they've stayed at home...

Maybe it would take the nearest inhabited neighbour 20,000 years to get here even when travelling at fast speeds? Maybe the nearest inhabited neighbour has a 200,000 year life-span? Maybe our nearest inhabited neighbour is in fact a newly formed planet where a civilisation is growing for the 2nd time ever in the entire history of the universe? Maybe we're the aliens that have got to do that 20,000 year trek?

Do I believe in aliens? Maybe. :D

[axlish]

I find it odd that anyone can look at the sky at night and think of anything but limitless possibilities. Odds play no role when dealing with a lack of limitations. There is also the possibility that we may not be worth visiting.

[Mike70]

Scipi70 -

If our galaxy was teaming with other civilizations some would be tens or hundreds of millions of years old, have capabilities beyond our comprehension, and be without a doubt space fairing. They would have spread across the galaxy... Why are they not here?

I have a gut feeling that the odd are not in little green mans favour. As I said before maybe the odds are not just throwing a pair of sixes, but infact akin to throwing ten sixes with ALL the dice needing to land one piled on top of the other...

So even if handful of species do exist in our galaxy, maybe space travel is so difficult they've stayed at home...

i don't think the galaxy is filled with sentient life at all. i think that advanced civilizations are probably quite rare and spread quite far apart. life, however, is probably quite common but the number of planets where that life evolves advanced intelligence is probably quite small. the number of these advanced intelligences that destroy themselves during the evolutionary process (as we have been close to doing before) or are destroyed by a natural process (asteroids, comets, a star passing too close by and throwing the planets orbit off) probably makes the number smaller still. we have been lucky (so far) the nothing on the extinction level has happened to earth while humans have been evolving. we were close about 80,000 years ago when the tuva supervolcano went off and reduced to the human population to about 3,000-10,000 in the entire world. so luck would play a part in any species development.

the universe as a whole is a quite different matter. the sheer numbers of stars in the universe puts the odds of sentient life existing in many places in the universe as quite high.

you are talking of the so-called "fermi paradox" this is a pessimistic, human centric idea that a species would share our basic traits and be as curious and as driven to explore as we are. species that evolved on another planet might be so different from us that they would have no basis for even dealing with us, let alone understanding us. others simply might not care. interstellar travel would be quite difficult but i think that more that know about quantum mechanics tells us that it is not impossible by any means.

like you said some of these civilizations could be millions of years old - given that what possible interest would they have in a childish race whose favorite pasttime is murdering one another in the name of politics/religion?

we are still infants. our speices is only about 200,000 years old and fully modern humans are only about 80,000 years old. there is still a lot to discover.

[HLS]

Well i do not think we have the technology yet to say what is for sure but I do believe life is out there somewhere. The Universe is so vast.

[DVW5150]

Why would aliens be gay?

Gay ? (Not that theres anything wrong with that) Little green men do not exist , they are G R A Y ... Damnit ! GRAY ! A light shade of black ... sheesh ... Doesnt anybody get it ? GRAY ! Little Green men are something started by B-rated sci-fi comics and movies ... GRAYGray GRAY ...damnit ...:elol:

[_liam_]

i wouldnt hold your breath, even we aren't that advanced. we spend 8 hours a day unconscious and get this ; try to visualise infinity. you can't! were so ****.

i agree with terran,think i said all this somewhere else, what are the chances of
*planet size
*contents of the planet (gases, matter etc)
*distance from sun
*size of that sun
*age of planet
being REMOTELY similar enough on another planet to produce something that we would even recognise as a living being?
skin, blood, eating, communicating, even just having your own body are EARTH concepts.

that's why i remain dubious about flying saucers & abductions - theyve invented flying vehicles?! way too many paralellss with earth technology to be true. also humanoid aliens? the chances of that actually occurring...think about it! it's ridiculously unlikely.

"the blob" and the 82 "the thing" were the only realistic aliens!

unless you believe in that seed theory, where life on a bunch of different planets (including our own) was seeded by one other source...

anyway yes it's people from the future,stick this in ye pipe and smoke it; evolution will never stop, we will evolve and evolve until we are the perfect survival machines.maybe even beings of light that never die, who knows.

the universe will eventually be swallowed up by a myriad of black holes, that in turn eat each other, until everything is compacted into a single point.

then our being of light-super evolved descendants, who have been hiding in a "baby universe" that they created, will instigate the thingummyjig that makes the point expand, causing the big bang and the whole of the history of the universe to transpire again exactly as it did before.

from time to time they visit earth in their craft...



:lol: maybe not

[Arcades057]

I heard it said onc before on a TV program. As men, we don't walk past an ant hill and have the urge to stop and teach the ants the art of modern industry and space travel; we either keep walking or kill the ants so they don't bite our kids. Or we hold a magnifying glass over them and burn them for fun...

The point is that if a race far more advanced than ourselves were to happen upon us, we can't simply assume that they'd even stop, let alone decide to be friends with us. They would know how badly we treat each other most of teh time; do they think they'd get different treatment?

Personally I do think there is intelligent life out there. It would be vain to assume that this entire universe is merely here as a toy for our amusement.

I don't know how much sense this makes, but I used this as an example in a conversation about this with a friend...

Earth is a planet that is at just the right distance from our sun to allow life to breed. Venus is too close, Mars is too far; we're perfect. Now, there has to be a center of the universe. Whichever method of creation that you believe in, there must be a center. Let us say now, because of this center, there is a very large amount of energy left over from the "bang" that prohibits life of any known kind developing on planets that reside in galaxies close to this center, but it gives out enough energy that allows life to develop on planets in galaxies farther away, but not too far.

By that example, the galaxy that houses Earth would have to be within this ring that is habitable; but there will be other galaxies out there that will have no life, nor will they be able to sustain it. I admit, to me this is one of the bleakest thoughts about the universe, but I, like Neil, am starting to fear that there are not nearly the amount of the other-worldly races out there that I had at first hoped. Instead I see now seas of planets of nothing but rock; some of them valuable rocks, but rocks nonetheless.

There would be other galaxies around this ring, however,where there would be life. By my example we would have to plot the center of the universe and judge our distance to see just where the livable ring would begin and then go from there to decide where we might best find our neighbors.

Again, it's just an idea. Pretty bleak, but still an idea.

[_liam_]

and develop a way of travelling fast enough to make it worthwhile, or it would be like that haldeman book where were at war with an alien race noone on earth has seen or knows anything about cos its so far away,we just send "ark" ships breeding armies out to fight them.

but yeah, very interesting points. personally i believe that the earth is the spark that all life in the universe will stem from and that there are currently no aliens, but it's just my opinion and much more arguable than your point about the hospitable ring.

[Marie]

Why would aliens be gay?

From all observations they only have one sex, so we assume they're gay. Even Dr.Who was Gal-Afraid.:D

M_

[_liam_]

hey...he had a grandaughter in the early ones and was a father once...plus he pulled daphne ashbrook & billie piper...

I REFUSE TO BELIEVE MY HERO GETS NONE!

:lol:

he's got two hearts...what else has he got two of?

[Danny]

zing.:lol:

[capncnut]

he's got two hearts...what else has he got two of?

Sonic Screwdrivers? :rolleyes:

[_liam_]

there's a "it's bigger on the inside than the out" joke in here somewhere, but im not sharp enough to figure it out...

[Marie]

In all seriousness, think about what happens, even if intentions are benign, when an advanced culture meets a less advanced one in earth history. I'd imagine alien cultures had similar experences in their advancement, and learned from it.

M_

[Mike70]

In all seriousness, think about what happens, even if intentions are benign, when an advanced culture meets a less advanced one in earth history. I'd imagine alien cultures had similar experences in their advancement, and learned from it.

M_


indeed. as i said in my first post the history of advanced, technological cultures meeting one another on this planet has been disastrous to say the very least. just ask the incas, aztecs or the woodland indians - oh wait you can't because they have been destroyed. the area that i live in ohio used to be home to some of the greatest woodland tribes - all extinct (in ohio at least through forced relocation) now. well, at least the miami indians got a university named after them in oxford- some consolation prize huh?

[Chaos]

Our solar system is in the bottom corner of the Milky Way galaxy. There's billions of other solar systems, besides ours, in the Milky Way too. Let's just say one in nine planets in every other solar system in the Milky Way galaxy is able to support life, like Earth. That means there's a good chance of other life in our own solar system. Then, you have our next door neighbor galaxy, Andromeda. Just imagine how many solar systems it has. There's a good chance that we're not alone in the universe. I don't know about little green men and the like, but i'm sure there is life comparable to ours somewhere out there.

[Neil]

Our solar system is in the bottom corner of the Milky Way galaxy. There's billions of other solar systems, besides ours, in the Milky Way too. Let's just say one in nine planets in every other solar system in the Milky Way galaxy is able to support life, like Earth. That means there's a good chance of other life in our own solar system. Then, you have our next door neighbor galaxy, Andromeda. Just imagine how many solar systems it has. There's a good chance that we're not alone in the universe. I don't know about little green men and the like, but i'm sure there is life comparable to ours somewhere out there.

I don't think you read my original post... It's not just a matter of putting a planet at roughly the right distance from a star, adding water and viola! On earth if any of the myriad of coincidences were in place, we wouldn't be here... If we didn't have a large moon for example... Chances are no humans... If we didn't have a tectonic plates (no other planet the solar system has), no humans... If we didn't have a string magnetic field, no humans...

As I originally said, I feel other intelligent life must exist, but I think it is going to be far far rarer that we first thought. Maybe to the extent that civilisation are so rare, and therefore so distant from one another that they for all intents and purposes are alone...


5-10 years ago I remember someone from SETI saying they reconned that they would pick up a signal with a few years - There are so many civilisations out there the odds are we should... Guess what... Of course we haven't yet received this signal... I fear that there's maybe not as many people out there to phone us as we first thought!


ps: Other galaxies are sooooo distant they're just not worth considering IMHO....

[Terran]

It's not just a matter of putting a planet at roughly the right distance from a star, adding water and viola!

To see life based in the way things are here....DNA, lipids, proteins etc...

Needing water is an earth based assumption


Im not trying to say life is unrare ...

[Neil]

To see life based in the way things are here....DNA, lipids, proteins etc...

Needing water is an earth based assumption

You missed my point... Read the other points and not my analogy :)


Stable conditions would almost certainly be required for any complex organism to evolve... We have here on earth a hole set of circumstances and chances that conspire to make that possible... Many of these things are seemingly never mentioned when considering how likely alien life is to evolve, but almost certainly many such coincidences will be required.

For example, how many planets out there will have a large moon AND tectonic plate movement AND a strong magnetic field AND so on so on?

[Terran]

You missed my point... Read the other points and not my analogy :)


Stable conditions would almost certainly be required for any complex organism to evolve... We have here on earth a hole set of circumstances and chances that conspire to make that possible... Many of these things are seemingly never mentioned when considering how likely alien life is to evolve, but almost certainly many such coincidences will be required.

For example, how many planets out there will have a large moon AND tectonic plate movement AND a strong magnetic field AND so on so on?

Yeah its kindof what I have been unsuccessfully trying to talk about...

YOu talk about rolling of the dice....

Add some more dice in there....add like 15 dice...and roll each one individually...

Now after your done rolling all those dice...what are the chances that one would roll those same numbers in order....

Incredibly slim...

And thats kindof like the human search for life...we look back...and we see the dice that we rolled that caused everything on the planet that we see today...

So all of our searching for life is searching for indentical dice rolls....

So we are totally negating other possibilities other fundementals...

Lets say earth's fundemental was water....another planet might have steady conditions with liquid methane.... that means that all life as we know it...all biology knowledge is tossed out the window because their whole system operates on an entirely "alien" physiology...


So once you enter this sort of variable...what kind of stable condition do you need....

Suddenly if methane is the main key to the life...a moon can be positioned differently....a sun can offer a different temperature....

Once that becomes a possibility the only protection that is neccessary is one from catastropic meteor impact....and if its an inner planet of a solar system thats a given...

Essentially life is just self replicating molecules...A water basis is only a begining....

Tetonic plates moving isnt a big deal....once they start magnetic fields result..


Ug Im too drunk ...i dont know if I went all over the place....or said anything worthwhile...

[_liam_]

the dice thing was wicked, i'm using that in the next drunken debate over aliens i have.

mind you, i've had a couple bottles of wine...we'll see how good it is in the morning (aint that always the way)

[DVW5150]

Grey or GRAY DANGIT!!!:elol:

[kortick]

there are aliens cuz art bell told me so

also there are structures on the moon

and the 12th planet is coming back and
will cause a great catastrophe

we are being watched and have been for years

put on your aluminum foil hats
so they dont read your thoughts

[_liam_]

http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/interviews/williambdavis_01.jpg

[Neil]

Tetonic plates moving isnt a big deal....

Tectonic plate action is basically vital to our survival on earth. Without it there would be no mountains, and erosion would basically iron a planet virtually flat so you'd have either no flowing rivers or just one planet covering ocean. All sediment and nutreants would just sink to never be recycled...

In the case of earth, without tectonic plate action the whole planet would be an ocean, and quite possibly a mostly dead one...

[Danny]

there are aliens cuz art bell told me so

also there are structures on the moon

and the 12th planet is coming back and
will cause a great catastrophe

we are being watched and have been for years

put on your aluminum foil hats
so they dont read your thoughts

damn, i thought the g-man was my local paperboy:lol:

[Terran]

Tectonic plate action is basically vital to our survival on earth. Without it there would be no mountains, and erosion would basically iron a planet virtually flat so you'd have either no flowing rivers or just one planet covering ocean. All sediment and nutreants would just sink to never be recycled...

In the case of earth, without tectonic plate action the whole planet would be an ocean, and quite possibly a mostly dead one...

What I meant to say was that Tectonic plates are not a big deal when it comes to rarity...

[Neil]

What I meant to say was that Tectonic plates are not a big deal when it comes to rarity...

? We've not found them anywhere else (in the solar system)...

[Dropper]

Tectonic plate action is basically vital to our survival on earth. Without it there would be no mountains, and erosion would basically iron a planet virtually flat so you'd have either no flowing rivers or just one planet covering ocean. All sediment and nutreants would just sink to never be recycled...

In the case of earth, without tectonic plate action the whole planet would be an ocean, and quite possibly a mostly dead one...

I think that you are seeing just what a miracle life is. Is this by just chance? Has everything magically aligned here and it works?

I am sure the answer is that there is a higher power out there. God has created us (the Earth and everything contained in it) to be unique.

We are a miracle from God.

I know some of you will just think that I am a simpleton, a quack, superstitious or whatever, but I am sure that I have an answer to all that happens to me and around me. You would not believe what kind of reassurance that is...

[Danny]

pfft!:rolleyes:

[Terran]

? We've not found them anywhere else (in the solar system)...



Like I copynpasted earlier
"the Earth will not be able to sustain life anymore after the next two thousand million years or so, because of natural chemical and geological processes in the Earth and the atmosphere.

The inside of the Earth is still cooling down from its formation, and eventually it will cool down so much that volcanoes stop working and the molten material inside the Earth stops moving around "

I think the reason as to why earth has plate tectonics in the first place has to do with it being a relatively young planet birthed by a giant collosion...


The giant impact hypothesis (or Big Splash or Big Whack) is the now-dominant scientific theory for the formation of the Moon, which is thought to have formed as a result of a collision between the young Earth and a Mars-sized body sometimes called Theia.

Since that original formation the Earths core cooling...Eventually the plates for practical purposes will stop moving...





Elsewhere in the solar system planets are older....in that they have been cooling for longer... But this does not mean that they do not have evidence that they once had that activity earlier in the given planets lifespan....

So plate tectonics is likely to just be a phase in the life cycle of a planet....

This means that any planet that suffers a super massive impact will begin the cycle....or any planet that is formed from a series of larger pieces or cascade of impacts will also have this cycle....

So where else in our solar system have we found them? A better question is where else have they been? since its a time table based question... But theres plenty to answer both questions....


Observations of the magnetic fields on Mars by the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft have revealed that parts of the planet's crust have been magnetized. This magnetization has been compared to alternating bands found on the ocean floors of Earth. One theory, published in 1999 and reexamined in October 2005 with the help of the Mars Global Surveyor, is that these bands are evidence of the past operation of plate tectonics on Mars.
Source http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2005/mgs_plates.html (http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2005/mgs_plates.html)


ICE VOLCANOES RESHAPE EUROPA'S CHAOTIC SURFACE

Ice-spewing volcanoes and the grinding and tearing of tectonic plates have reshaped the chaotic surface of Jupiter's frozen moon Europa, images from NASA's Galileo spacecraft reveal.
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/releases/97/gal117.html

Europa is my favorite for the possibility of complex life....



Ganymede probably undergoes frequent ground shaking events not unlike terrestrial earthquakes. Ganymede, the largest moon of Jupiter and the Solar System, has a thick outer coating of water ice. Passing Voyager spacecraft found a large number of cracks and grooves in the ice so it is thought that Ganymede, like the Earth, has large shifting surface masses called tectonic plates
The key findings of Galileo's primary mission include:

The existence of a magnetic field from Jupiter's largest moon, Ganymede.
The discovery of volcanic ice flows and melting or "rafting" of ice on the surface that support the presence of liquid oceans underneath at some point in Europa's history.
The observation of water vapor, lightning, and auroras on Jupiter in the outer jovian atmosphere.
The discovery of an atmosphere of hydrogen and carbon dioxide on the moon, Callisto.
The presence of metallic cores in Io, Europa, and Ganymede (but not Callisto).
Evidence of very hot volcanic activity on Io and observations of dramatic changes compared to previous observations.


Enceladus has a very tectonically active surface. It has several different terrain types, including craters, plains, and many faults that cross the surface.


Miranda has fault canyons and terraced land formations that indicate a diverse tectonic environment. Scientists studying the Voyager 2 images of Triton found evidence of an active geologic past as well as ongoing eruptions of ice volcanoes.
Also there is pseudo tectonic plates like with venus

While Venus does not have Earth-like tectonic plates, it has a long, complex history of deformation with many episodes of tectonics and faulting.
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/releases/92/release_1992_1418.html (http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/releases/92/release_1992_1418.html)


So if theres this many just in our solar system when can hardly expect tectonic plates to be a rare event....




But all of this stuff is really besides the point...

All of this is under the assumption the Earth style life and Earth style dynamics are the only possibility...

[LoSTBoY]

? We've not found them anywhere else (in the solar system)...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wow, Neil. I thought you would be more open minded.

There is only 8 planets here and countless others beyond, and if it's happened here it's just logic that it's happened elsewhere. As far as we know we could be the exception of one habital planet in a solar system (although I'm still holding out for Europa).

As far as humans go we had to go through a hell of a lot to survive with what we got, I believe other races would have hard times too but they would evolve to compensate like we did.

[Terran]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wow, Neil. I thought you would be more open minded.

There is only 8 planets here and countless others beyond, and if it's happened here it's just logic that it's happened elsewhere. As far as we know we could be the exception of one habital planet in a solar system (although I'm still holding out for Europa).

As far as humans go we had to go through a hell of a lot to survive with what we got, I believe other races would have hard times too but they would evolve to compensate like we did.

Yeah I dont know if is talking based upon old data or what.... but right above your post I listed a bunch of examples of plate tectonics on other planets/satellites... So I think its a fair assessment to consider tectonic plates a common phenomenom in the Universe ...

[LoSTBoY]

Yeah I dont know if is talking based upon old data or what.... but right above your post I listed a bunch of examples of plate tectonics on other planets/satellites... So I think its a fair assessment to consider tectonic plates a common phenomenom in the Universe ...

Aye, I was posting at the same time as you so I missed your last post. :)

[Khardis]

Scipi70 -

If our galaxy was teaming with other civilizations some would be tens or hundreds of millions of years old, have capabilities beyond our comprehension, and be without a doubt space fairing. They would have spread across the galaxy... Why are they not here?

I have a gut feeling that the odd are not in little green mans favour. As I said before maybe the odds are not just throwing a pair of sixes, but infact akin to throwing ten sixes with ALL the dice needing to land one piled on top of the other...

So even if handful of species do exist in our galaxy, maybe space travel is so difficult they've stayed at home...

Physical mass cannot travel at the speed of light. And if the closest star is 100s of LIGHT years away, you can imagine how long it would take at just a fraction of that speed. If there IS life out there, advanced life, chances are theyre just as frail in thier physical being as we are and wouldnt live the 1000s if not 10s of 1000s of years to travel here.

[Neil]

Terran - Interesting stuff!

Maybe that tenth dice, doesn't need to land piled ontop of the other nine then for complex life to exist :)


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wow, Neil. I thought you would be more open minded.

There is only 8 planets here and countless others beyond, and if it's happened here it's just logic that it's happened elsewhere. As far as we know we could be the exception of one habital planet in a solar system (although I'm still holding out for Europa).

As far as humans go we had to go through a hell of a lot to survive with what we got, I believe other races would have hard times too but they would evolve to compensate like we did.



Well... To a certain degree the proof is we can't see or hear them... So maybe there's not as many to see or hear as we think!


Physical mass cannot travel at the speed of light. And if the closest star is 100s of LIGHT years away, you can imagine how long it would take at just a fraction of that speed. If there IS life out there, advanced life, chances are theyre just as frail in thier physical being as we are and wouldnt live the 1000s if not 10s of 1000s of years to travel here.

True, but imagine our technology say in a 1000 years (see how far we've come in the past 100!)... Self replicating fusion powered AI droids searching the universe... broadcasting nice loud "hello" messages? And the moment they find anything call back home to let us know...

Now, why hasn't anyone else done this? Why can't we hear anything? Again, maybe there aren't as many people/things broadcasting as we hope!

[Khardis]

True, but imagine our technology say in a 1000 years (see how far we've come in the past 100!)... Self replicating fusion powered AI droids searching the universe... broadcasting nice loud "hello" messages? And the moment they find anything call back home to let us know...

Now, why hasn't anyone else done this? Why can't we hear anything? Again, maybe there aren't as many people/things broadcasting as we hope!


Discard everything you have seen from the Science Fiction genre. Even if we had fully powered droids by the millions (unlikely if you consider the materials needed to make them) flying out into space they would still be going at a fraction of lightspeed, since as physics has taught us the only thing capible of traveling at light speed is...well light. It would still take 1000's of years to get them out there. and then 1000s of years for them to send proof of what they may have found back. And thats only if they dont get sucked up into a black hole or smack into space debris and change course or get pulled into another bodies gravitational field. Youre looking at 1000s to millions of years (our time) to even possibly find something.

If there are other beings out there I gather that they have economies and limited resources like we do, and dont live for 1000s of years and as such the costs of trying to find others is moot. Even with radio signals.

Those probes we sent into deep space probably arent even out of our solar system yet and they were launched in the 70s.

[Terran]

Discard everything you have seen from the Science Fiction genre. Even if we had fully powered droids by the millions (unlikely if you consider the materials needed to make them) flying out into space they would still be going at a fraction of lightspeed, since as physics has taught us the only thing capible of traveling at light speed is...well light. It would still take 1000's of years to get them out there. and then 1000s of years for them to send proof of what they may have found back. And thats only if they dont get sucked up into a black hole or smack into space debris and change course or get pulled into another bodies gravitational field. Youre looking at 1000s to millions of years (our time) to even possibly find something.

If there are other beings out there I gather that they have economies and limited resources like we do, and dont live for 1000s of years and as such the costs of trying to find others is moot. Even with radio signals.

Those probes we sent into deep space probably arent even out of our solar system yet and they were launched in the 70s.


Yeah then start considering the orbits of the various solar systems and galaxies as a whole and the time it would take for a message to travel....

Look how long the light some some of these distant stars takes to get here....

So lets say some alien race knows about us somehow and wants to send us some message...and lets say their message can travel at light speed....

This means they have to calculate some sort of time frame that the message vector doesnt miss due to orbits...(We are looking at millions and millions of years here in cycle lengths)...Also they have to calculate some sort of time frame that it doesnt miss due to orbits and due to obstructions in the pathway to get to us....

So lets just say that somehow an Alien species was aware of humans at the very earliest possible time that they could...200,000 years ago or so.... And somehow they knew we would develop the specific technology capable of recieving a message from them.... If they sent that message 200,000 years ago it may have missed us...so they would have to wait untill everything lined up by time and orbit for it to make it there...so they may have to wait for million+ year cycles to line up till they can even send a message that they first thought up all that time ago.... And then they send the message and it still takes 1000 or so years for the message to get to us....


So we shouldnt be expecting any extra terrestrial mail for a couple hundred thousand years if not longer.....Dang they are worse than UPS...



But all this kindof goes out with the garbage if "moving without moving" is possible.... or if theyve developed sorts of technology where lifespan and personal time are unimportant... so who knows...maybe we just smell bad... And maybe its in our best interests that we havent been found yet... :rolleyes:

[Neil]

Discard everything you have seen from the Science Fiction genre. Even if we had fully powered droids by the millions (unlikely if you consider the materials needed to make them) flying out into space they would still be going at a fraction of lightspeed, since as physics has taught us the only thing capible of traveling at light speed is...well light. It would still take 1000's of years to get them out there. and then 1000s of years for them to send proof of what they may have found back. And thats only if they dont get sucked up into a black hole or smack into space debris and change course or get pulled into another bodies gravitational field. Youre looking at 1000s to millions of years (our time) to even possibly find something.

If there are other beings out there I gather that they have economies and limited resources like we do, and dont live for 1000s of years and as such the costs of trying to find others is moot. Even with radio signals.

Those probes we sent into deep space probably arent even out of our solar system yet and they were launched in the 70s.

In a thousand years do you not suspect that humanity in one shape or form will be imortal? And probably have in one shape or form developed suspended animation?

Given this development, do you not think (a) we would have set our goals more skyward, (b) we would be using radio or robot based attempts at communication?

And if we would, surely others would/might!?


Yeah then start considering the orbits of the various solar systems and galaxies as a whole and the time it would take for a message to travel....

Look how long the light some some of these distant stars takes to get here....


A number of years ago I wondered if gravity could be used for instantaneous communication... Newtonian physics sort of treats it that way..

But then I found out gravity travels at the speed of light as well (or Einstein predicts)... Wierd! No faster... No slower...

[mista_mo]

BTW, Venus doesn't have any plate tectonics....plate tectonics are what creates our magnetic feild and keeps the planet recycling and cooler then it would otherwise be. There are no active tectonics on Venus, any one who can type venus into a search engine realizes that. earth is the only body in the system that has anything like it, in the past perhaps other systems had it, but none do now. I agree with Neil, alien life isn't as common as what was once thought.

We aren't a by product of random chance, and our planet proves it. Without anyone of the common factors that Neil listed, we wouldn't be here. I agree with you dropper whole heartidly. In my opinion, it's others who try and come up with theories (all of which are lacking in evidence) to support or say otherwise. Face it, God exists, we are a miracle of God, life here isn't random.

[LoSTBoY]

BTW, Venus doesn't have any plate tectonics....plate tectonics are what creates our magnetic feild and keeps the planet recycling and cooler then it would otherwise be. There are no active tectonics on Venus, any one who can type venus into a search engine realizes that. earth is the only body in the system that has anything like it, in the past perhaps other systems had it, but none do now. I agree with Neil, alien life isn't as common as what was once thought.

The fact that 2 planets have/had tectonic plates on our solar system means the laws of average there will be plenty else where.

Considering there are 500 billion billion stars out there I think anything is possible.


We aren't a by product of random chance, and our planet proves it. Without anyone of the common factors that Neil listed, we wouldn't be here. I agree with you dropper whole heartidly. In my opinion, it's others who try and come up with theories (all of which are lacking in evidence) to support or say otherwise. Face it, God exists, we are a miracle of God, life here isn't random.

Well that's a bare faced cheek! considering the Bible is all based on faith. :lol:

[mista_mo]

Oh, I know, but the point of the matter is life is incredibly complex. anyone who took biology in school should know that, and there is something that makes us special. I really am having doubts as too the truthiness of alien life anymore, but then we have all of the eyewitness accounts and testimonies....it is alot of information to overlook, and I highly doubt that all of it is false.

[coma]

We are a miracle from God.
I know some of you will just think that I am a simpleton, a quack, superstitious or whatever, but I am sure that I have an answer to all that happens to me and around me. You would not believe what kind of reassurance that is...
Why are Burger King frys so good?
God.
Why did My girlfriend In 10th grade dump me?
God
Why is South Park So funny?
God

That God is the answer to anything is OK for you f it makes life easier. But I prefer actual answers. If a one size fits all solution is the answer to anything, what is the motivation to think for yourself? Why does a belief in God have to negate everything else. Without free thought there is no progress of any kind whatsoever.


As far as tectonic plates, tempature, etc. One caveat Scientists use is "Life as we know it", Thety dont know every condition for life. Thety are not even sure about water. They only know to look where they know to look. There is life under the ocean in the dark where it is extremely cold and little oxygen. Sometimes they like in extremly sulfuric conditions like near Volcanic rutures deep uinder the sea. Thre is some life in Artic conditions.

Lfe and Intelligent Life are 2 different things. There could be many forms of life but until we even have probes that land on planets that are able to cover enough landscape it will be hard to know. Life could be common, but common could mean commonly distributed over billions of light years. Human have barely left the block, so to speak.

Using that logic, as per my block;
No buildings are over 90 years old
Most people speak Spanish as a first langauge.
You could extrapolate that over the entirety of America and the worls, for that matter, and you would be dead wrong.

[Terran]

BTW, Venus doesn't have any plate tectonics....plate tectonics are what creates our magnetic feild and keeps the planet recycling and cooler then it would otherwise be. There are no active tectonics on Venus, any one who can type venus into a search engine realizes that. earth is the only body in the system that has anything like it, in the past perhaps other systems had it, but none do now. I agree with Neil, alien life isn't as common as what was once thought.


I said Venus has psuedo plate tectonics... (I hope I dont have to definte the word "pseudo" for you)

While Venus does not have Earth-like tectonic plates, it has a long, complex history of deformation with many episodes of tectonics and faulting.
Straight from nasa mouth....





earth is the only body in the system that has anything like it, in the past perhaps other systems had it, but none do now.


Did you read my post....I listed several bodys directly in our system that have active plate tectonics....



ICE VOLCANOES RESHAPE EUROPA'S CHAOTIC SURFACE

Ice-spewing volcanoes and the grinding and tearing of tectonic plates have reshaped the chaotic surface of Jupiter's frozen moon Europa, images from NASA's Galileo spacecraft reveal.

Ganymede probably undergoes frequent ground shaking events not unlike terrestrial earthquakes. Ganymede, the largest moon of Jupiter and the Solar System, has a thick outer coating of water ice. Passing Voyager spacecraft found a large number of cracks and grooves in the ice so it is thought that Ganymede, like the Earth, has large shifting surface masses called tectonic plates

Miranda has fault canyons and terraced land formations that indicate a diverse tectonic environment. Scientists studying the Voyager 2 images of Triton found evidence of an active geologic past as well as ongoing eruptions of ice volcanoes.

Enceladus has a very tectonically active surface. It has several different terrain types, including craters, plains, and many faults that cross the surface.

All this information is straight from Nasa...and all them are in our solar system....

So since Earth is not the only body in the solar system that has active plate tectonics...so I would think its fair to assume that plate tectonics is not a rare phenomenom throughout the universe....
Not to mention Mars very likely had tectonics in its past....

Im not even going to get into anything else you said because in the past you have already established yourself as a radical.... :D

[Khardis]

In a thousand years do you not suspect that humanity in one shape or form will be imortal? And probably have in one shape or form developed suspended animation?

Given this development, do you not think (a) we would have set our goals more skyward, (b) we would be using radio or robot based attempts at communication?

And if we would, surely others would/might!?




A number of years ago I wondered if gravity could be used for instantaneous communication... Newtonian physics sort of treats it that way..

But then I found out gravity travels at the speed of light as well (or Einstein predicts)... Wierd! No faster... No slower...
I dont think we will ever be immortal. Even if you can stop us form aging physically the human mind and psyche isnt meant to last so long. We would all go insane somewhere into our 200th birthday. Then you have to consider how to stop people from being born, since if noone is going to die we would fill up rather quickly.

Again though how do you get your robot to the nearest star (which isnt assure dot have life in its system) without it being in light speed? It would take 1000s of earth years. The costs would be absurd.

[Terran]

I dont think we will ever be immortal. Even if you can stop us form aging physically the human mind and psyche isnt meant to last so long. We would all go insane somewhere into our 200th birthday. Then you have to consider how to stop people from being born, since if noone is going to die we would fill up rather quickly.


What if you essentially digitize the mind....and your mind "lives" in a virtual universe...kindof like the Matrix...except that you dont have a body on the other side....everything you are is data...

So the human animal goes extinct but our minds live on as data... that run machines in the "real" world....then when time is not important those long journeys can be made because time means nothing to a "human" then....

So once probes or landers or various equipment and robotics reach far off planets or galaxies and establish themselves...you can send "human" minds to the probes at the speed of light....because you are sending them as light information that then gets loaded into the probe....

:rolleyes: :D

[Mutineer]

I am 100 % certain that life (intelligent) exists in the Universe; I doubt they're flying around in spaceships ala Star Wars or Geek Trek; but most definite are intelligent and farther advanced than we.

[Khardis]

What if you essentially digitize the mind....and your mind "lives" in a virtual universe...kindof like the Matrix...except that you dont have a body on the other side....everything you are is data...

So the human animal goes extinct but our minds live on as data... that run machines in the "real" world....then when time is not important those long journeys can be made because time means nothing to a "human" then....

So once probes or landers or various equipment and robotics reach far off planets or galaxies and establish themselves...you can send "human" minds to the probes at the speed of light....because you are sending them as light information that then gets loaded into the probe....

:rolleyes: :D

You wouldnt exist, a copy of your mind woudl exist. But you would still die while a copy of your thoughts and impressions existed on.

[Terran]

You wouldnt exist, a copy of your mind woudl exist. But you would still die while a copy of your thoughts and impressions existed on.

What if nanomachines were used....

Inserted into the blood brain barrier.... the nano machines systematically replace each individual brain sell with a nanomachine that duplicates the function of the original brain cell while destroying it...then moving on to the next brain cell....

So after like several days/weeks/months/years eventually your brain is entirely composed of nanomachines ripe for direct transfer into data....

So the transition would be seamless.....There would never be a point where two of your consciousnous exists...

[coma]

I am 100 % certain that life (intelligent) exists in the Universe; I doubt they're flying around in spaceships ala Star Wars or Geek Trek; but most definite are intelligent and farther advanced than we.
I am not 100% sure because there is no evidence yet, though it is more likely than not. If it does its likely most common in the simplest forms, virii, amoeba like creatures etc.
I wish they would hurry up and find some to throw so many belief systems in total disarray:D


What if nanomachines were used....

Inserted into the blood brain barrier.... the nano machines systematically replace each individual brain sell with a nanomachine that duplicates the function of the original brain cell while destroying it...then moving on to the next brain cell....

So after like several days/weeks/months/years eventually your brain is entirely composed of nanomachines ripe for direct transfer into data....

So the transition would be seamless.....There would never be a point where two of your consciousnous exists...
If it has no knowledge of self and cannot put two thought together and come up with something original it is not sentient, so not really alive, just a good replica

[Terran]

If it has no knowledge of self and cannot put two thought together and come up with something original it is not sentient, so not really alive, just a good replica

Im talking neuro science...brain chemistry here...

A single...individual brain cell.... it has limited, describable functions.... The complexititys that make up human consciousnous and human behavior rest in the complex network of simple reactions in individual brain cells....

Getting drunk on a weekend kills bunches of brain cells so brain cell death happens unnoticeably all the time....

So If each invidividual brain cell was replaced with nano mechanical indentical replacements systematically we would never even notice any change....In real time...we could be awake an aware during the change

Like I cant figure out how your responce has anything to do with mine...what are you talking about....? if anything the replacements would make the person more sentient...more original...
self knowledge. sentience, and originality all this comes from the elaborate network of simple brain cells...and if each cell was duplicated perfectly why would it change....and what if not only they could be duplicated but improved upon...more sentient?

[DeadJonas190]

Why must life be like us in order to be life? What if there is a type of life out there that has developed under completely different circumstances that is not visable to the human eye, a type of life that exists on a different spectrum of reality that not we or our machinces can percieve.

To say that life can only exists if the conditions that made us exist is very self-centric. There could be beings made of pure energy that are already here, lying dormant in our cole, until we burn them out to sacrifice them to our machines. It sounds far fetched, but something need not be sentient in order to be alive.

[Mutineer]

I am not 100% sure because there is no evidence yet, though it is more likely than not. If it does its likely most common in the simplest forms, virii, amoeba like creatures etc.
I wish they would hurry up and find some to throw so many belief systems in total disarray:D

The conventional thought is that we are the center of the Universe (Our Sun) and the idea of a more intelligent life form freaks people out. I like to think outside (Pun) of that train of thought

Earth is only 4.5 billion years old; generally accepted to be true. Whereas the Universe is something like 15 billion years old. With the universe constantly expanding; it isn't too far fetched an idea that in this time; other 'Earth Like' planets have evolved over the last 10 Billion years ?

I-- -------I----------------------I

We all know what earth like planets are. That hypothesis alone merits attention I think. Another galaxy, a sun, a planet at a so called distance to that sun ....


If it has no knowledge of self and cannot put two thought together and come up with something original it is not sentient, so not really alive, just a good replica

Do Wal-Mart employees count ?

[Kaos]

And if the closest star is 100s of LIGHT years away, you can imagine how long it would take at just a fraction of that speed.

The closest star system is Alpha Centauri at a little over 4 light years away. I suspect that would be our first target for an interstellar probe.

[coma]

Like I cant figure out how your responce has anything to do with mine...what are you talking about....? if anything the replacements would make the person more sentient...more original...
self knowledge. sentience, and originality all this comes from the elaborate network of simple brain cells...and if each cell was duplicated perfectly why would it change....and what if not only they could be duplicated but improved upon...more sentient?
I was thinking of how replacing Organic cells with Nanotechnology might work, but it is still mecanical and could maybe be only a replica. I beleive it may be the imperfections that make un unique and sentient
Sometimes stuff gets me thinking, I go through all the permutations and what comes out seems related to me because thats the sum of my pondering, leaving out the mental path to that sum.
Plus I think I just missed some of your points (blushes like a widdle girl):p


With the universe constantly expanding; it isn't too far fetched an idea that in this time; other 'Earth Like' planets have evolved over the last 10 Billion years ?
Apparently they go to the "end" of the Universe and start to come back. Spectrascope/Red=Blue shift proved that some are going away from us and some towards.



Do Wal-Mart employees count ?
Hehe. Actually, I have never been to a Walmart. There aren't any anywhere near me, believe it or not.

[DVW5150]

Gosh , sheesh and a poot to boot , THEY ARE GREY ! GRAY ! GRAU ! geez !:elol:I am not crazy , if I were crazy I wouldnt know it ... wait does that make sense? Ahem , ok ... Lemme just say that I am missing nine hours , enough said . I am not sane , I mean I am not crazy , just touched . I hope that I can get my free pass to Area 51 ... Golly !

[Neil]

The closest star system is Alpha Centauri at a little over 4 light years away. I suspect that would be our first target for an interstellar probe.

An even in the nearish future... with a journey time of at least nearly a human life time... :eek:

[capncnut]

That's an understatement. If you jumped in the space shuttle and carved a direct route to Alpha Centauri, coasting along at a speed of 27,875 km per hour, it would take about 1,500,000,000 hours to get there. Roughly 169,000 years! :eek:

[Terran]

That's an understatement. If you jumped in the space shuttle and carved a direct route to Alpha Centauri, coasting along at a speed of 27,875 km per hour, it would take about 1,500,000,000 hours to get there. Roughly 169,000 years! :eek:

yeah but if in the future human "brains" are data you could upload your brain sending it at the speed of light....

So the mission would essentially work like this...a space ship is automated by robots/human remote control is sent to some distant system at the maximum speed possible...if any probelms arise along the way an astronaut could load up his mind into either a virtual console or hub so that he could have real time control of the ship....

So after 200,000 years the space ship reaches its destination and begins orbit around some planet or moon of interest....Maybe to some small moon that offers useful mineral deposits so that more structures/industry can be built...

The rest could be done in a variety of ways...either biology base or computer robotic based...

Biology Based:
Frozen human cells are then automated by the ships computer to begin growing into fully sized "blank brain" humans.
The stem cells would ideally come from some genetically engineered human that has genetic traits ideal for the mission at hand...
The body is grown with a "blank brain". The final step of the human growing would be to surgically implant a bio-port into the brain that will allow transfer into/outof the brain...
Once the body/bodies are grown (after 18-20 years) a message is sent back to earth. Anything from an "astronaut"/scientist/skilled laborer is then sent to the ship as information. The information is the loaded into the ships computer where it then begins the installation process into one of the grown human bodies.


Robotic Based:
Essentially this is the same process just instead of using grown humans "minds" are sent into advanced robots.


Any given mission would likely want to use both options just to have good overlap. Maybe robots would be used first to establish some sort of ecosystem within a large structure built on some body. The robotic aspect is important because it allows the ship to avoid using or even having lifesupport on the ship. So all that would be needed is electrical power.



So using techniques like this it would be possible to send "humans" places at the speed of light...(at least their minds/consciousnous). All that is required is that we travel there once first...


These techniques would likely first start so that colonization of our solar system becomes way more feasible practically easy. Suddenly our whole system would erupt with our presence either with actual human bodies or robotic vessels containing our consciousnous.

What would kindof happen from this is a sort of intergalatic railroad boom. Where we start sending seeding ships off in all directions and all planets so that human consciousnous can travel to any of these locations at the speed of light.....

:|

[DVW5150]

Grey ... Gray ...

[Terran]

yeah but if in the future human "brains" are data you could upload your brain sending it at the speed of light....

So the mission would essentially work like this...a space ship is automated by robots/human remote control is sent to some distant system at the maximum speed possible...if any probelms arise along the way an astronaut could load up his mind into either a virtual console or hub so that he could have real time control of the ship....

So after 200,000 years the space ship reaches its destination and begins orbit around some planet or moon of interest....Maybe to some small moon that offers useful mineral deposits so that more structures/industry can be built...

The rest could be done in a variety of ways...either biology base or computer robotic based...

Biology Based:
Frozen human cells are then automated by the ships computer to begin growing into fully sized "blank brain" humans.
The stem cells would ideally come from some genetically engineered human that has genetic traits ideal for the mission at hand...
The body is grown with a "blank brain". The final step of the human growing would be to surgically implant a bio-port into the brain that will allow transfer into/outof the brain...
Once the body/bodies are grown (after 18-20 years) a message is sent back to earth. Anything from an "astronaut"/scientist/skilled laborer is then sent to the ship as information. The information is the loaded into the ships computer where it then begins the installation process into one of the grown human bodies.


Robotic Based:
Essentially this is the same process just instead of using grown humans "minds" are sent into advanced robots.


Any given mission would likely want to use both options just to have good overlap. Maybe robots would be used first to establish some sort of ecosystem within a large structure built on some body. The robotic aspect is important because it allows the ship to avoid using or even having lifesupport on the ship. So all that would be needed is electrical power.



So using techniques like this it would be possible to send "humans" places at the speed of light...(at least their minds/consciousnous). All that is required is that we travel there once first...


These techniques would likely first start so that colonization of our solar system becomes way more feasible practically easy. Suddenly our whole system would erupt with our presence either with actual human bodies or robotic vessels containing our consciousnous.

What would kindof happen from this is a sort of intergalatic railroad boom. Where we start sending seeding ships off in all directions and all planets so that human consciousnous can travel to any of these locations at the speed of light.....

:|

I was just thinking to bring this back towards the original topic....

If intelligent aliens do exist (even if they are more advanced technologically).... If space bending/wormholes and "moving without moving" is impossible they too would spread throughout their solar system and neighboring systems in the same slow systematic fashion as I mentioned above....

So it would be likely that we could never "meet" an actual alien "lifeform" ...because they would exist in some sort of artificial means or as "software" running complicated machines....
So like what they are now isnt what they were originally when they evolved into cogniscient beings.....

[kortick]

the accepted lore is that ther are 4 NHE we are dealing with
they are NHEs (Non Human Entities)
and they are not so much ETs but other dimesional

they are
the small greys
the tall greys
the reptillians
the nordics

the ufo sightings came in the late 40s an 50s when
the us and russia were dropping h bombs like crazy
even in the upper atmosphere before they did underground tests

this supposedly brought us trouble cuz
they dont care if we destroy ourselves
but the bombs were casuing problems that ran across all dimensional lines

there are too many credible witnesses to these crafts and beings
to dismiss them outright
in fact one major intelligence head from britian was asked
"is there anything you could tell us if you were allowed about these
things that would shock us?"
and his response was "oh yes"

they are not considered Ets
they are non human entities
that are more likely from other dimensions
than other planets

read the works of zacariah sinchion

[capncnut]

The 'Temple Of Kort' is open for enrolment if anyone's interested. :lol: