Protecting the mall...

[OddDNA]

I was thinking when the 3 found out the raiders were coming could they have done a better job protecting the mall?

1st..were they able to talk back to the bikers if they wanted to?

2ndl...I thought it would have been better for the three of them to go to the roof and shoot down on the bikers, it might make them retreat and even if it didnt the bikers wouldnt be able to get up to the roof where they were hiding. I still think the raiders would have made it into the mall and looted but all three would still be alive and depending on thier losses (They seemed to take heavy losses in the movie) the raiders my not ever come back.


I just dont see the point in shutting the gates, they would just be opened again.

Who cares if raiders know you are living there, if anything I think that makes it a less attractive target knowing you have to fight zombies and people protecting the mall.


I just dont understand the stradegy behind what they did.

[MikePizzoff]

Peter didn't want to respond to them or harm them. He didn't want them to know they were living in the mall at all. He just wanted to talk a look at how they were doing. Hence why he wasn't firing at them from the roof.

Flyboy lost his farkin mind and started shooting at the raiders. Remember the line... something like "Now we have a war on our hands, Flyboy" because Peter was pissed off about it.

If he had never fired he would have lived, which would have never resulted in zombie-Flyboy breaking down the wall to their secret "home" and they wouldn't have had to flee the mall.

[axlish]

Peter didn't want to respond to them or harm them. He didn't want them to know they were living in the mall at all.

Over the CB they said that they saw the "whirlybird" on the roof, so Peter knew that the bikers were aware of their presence. I think Peter was content to let them have their fun, and then re-secure the Mall. I bet they would have done a much better job the second time around.

[bassman]

I think that they should have never went downstairs to lock the gates. I mean, they saw the massive crew of bikers who obviously have their stuff together("looks like they've been living on the road all through this thing") and common sense tells you that they will be able to get through the gates. So don't lock the gates, stay in the hidden living area, wait for them to finish their looting and then attempt to re-secure the mall. If the mall couldn't be saved, they at least still had their lives and the ability to leave.

But in short....I think Peter was right. Flyboy just got over protective of their accomplishment and foiled a perfectly good plan("we took it, it's ours").

[MikePizzoff]

Over the CB they said that they saw the "whirlybird" on the roof, so Peter knew that the bikers were aware of their presence. I think Peter was content to let them have their fun, and then re-secure the Mall. I bet they would have done a much better job the second time around.

Yes, but just because they saw the helicopter on the roof doesn't mean there was deffinitely people living there. For all they knew it could have been sitting up there since the very beginning of the epidemic which, I believe, is why Peter never responded on the CB.

[axlish]

Yes, but just because they saw the helicopter on the roof doesn't mean there was deffinitely people living there. For all they knew it could have been sitting up there since the very beginning of the epidemic which, I believe, is why Peter never responded on the CB.

They witnessed Steven giving Fran flying lessons.

[capncnut]

They witnessed Steven giving Fran flying lessons.

Bravo, you beat me to it Razor! :lol:

[Danny]

If he had never fired he would have lived, which would have never resulted in zombie-Flyboy breaking down the wall to their secret "home" and they wouldn't have had to flee the mall.

ooo, chaos theory.

either that or some members were right about the parralel dimension thing-a-majig:p

[OddDNA]

1st I was just wondering "IF" he had the ability to talk back to the raiders not if he should or not.

2nd The raiders were 100% sure there were people living in the mall, however Peter and the crew did not know if the raiders were sure or guessing. The raider only says we saw the whirlybird on the roof...he didnt say, we saw you flying the whirlybird on the roof. So it coudl be the case the raider just saw the whirlybird and wasnt sure if people were in there.

3rd do you think Peter didnt want to shoot them unless he had to? While they were coming in they are a threat, Peter didnt seem to mind shooting whooly in the 107 so I dont think he would mind shooting raiders either. I just think the better plan would be to fire down on them while they approached.

[Slain]

I think Peter was right in not wanting to start a firefight with the bikers. There's no way just two guys could have defended that mall from a large gang of looters.

If I had been a defender at the mall I would have turned off all the electricity & turned on the fire sprinklers when the bikers had all gotten inside the place :evil:

[Philly_SWAT]

Well, I dont think that they could have done a better job of "protecting the mall" but they could have done a much better job in protecting themselves. Some thoughts....

1st..were they able to talk back to the bikers if they wanted to?
I think we have to assume that Peter could have responded, that he didnt want to. I am not a technology expert, and especially not a 1978 technology expert, but I dont think that the bikers could have been sending their message on a frequency that would cuold over a regular AM/FM radio. It would only make sense that Peter would have brought some type of short-wave radio to the hideout, and I seem to remember something looking like a mic sitting on the table as they were listening. Therefore I think it is safe to assume that they could have replied, but I think Peter was correct in not responding.

2nd The raiders were 100% sure there were people living in the mall, however Peter and the crew did not know if the raiders were sure or guessing. The raider only says we saw the whirlybird on the roof...he didnt say, we saw you flying the whirlybird on the roof. So it coudl be the case the raider just saw the whirlybird and wasnt sure if people were in there.
This is absolutley correct. Peter did not know that the bikers knew they were in there, but he had to assume that they probably did. I mean, he told Roger earlier that the "chopper up there may give us away". I always thought they should have covered the chopper with a tarp or something. But since Peter didnt know for sure they knew, it was only smart not to respond. The bikers probably wouldnt have seen the fake wall, hell, Blades was right in front of it and didnt notice.

3rd do you think Peter didnt want to shoot them unless he had to? While they were coming in they are a threat, Peter didnt seem to mind shooting whooly in the 107 so I dont think he would mind shooting raiders either. I just think the better plan would be to fire down on them while they approached.I think a couple of things were going thru Peters mind here. One, he probably knew that the bikers were going to get in no matter what. I doubt at night that they could have killed all the bikers before they got to the loading dock. So why piss them off further? Also, as a police officer, Peter was probably familiar with the biker mentality, and knew they would be careless, and would get into plenty of danger without their help. I mean, once you bust open the mall, obviously, zombies would follow you in. Peter would also know that the bikers couldnt kill all the zombies that were out there, and that the bikers would not be careful enough to be able to loot the mall indefinatley and keep the zombies at bay, so they would either leave or be killed. Therefore, the biker threat would be eliminated one way or the other with no danger to our heros. If they were so inclined, since Fran knew how to fly now, Peter and Flyboy could have tried to same trick to move another truck, learning from the mistakes of Roger, or simply tried to move the other truck back, which was still hotwired, which is how the bikers moved it. But I think firing from the roof would have served no purpose other than to piss the bikers off, and maybe make them more mad and want to find and kill our heros, rather than just loot the mall. Remember what Peter told Flyboy, "They're just interested in the place, not us", or something like that. Plus, our group in the mall was trying to live as normal as before, and just killing people for the hell of it is not the act of "civilized" people. Peter only killed Wooley when he was blantently killing innocents. Peter was protecting people, not things, when he killed Wooley.

I just dont see the point in shutting the gates, they would just be opened again.True, but the more gates that were closed, the less that would be opened. If the bikers could get into the mall without letting zombies in, then yes, why bother with the gates. But with "a thousand zombies" in there as well, the bikers would only be able to open so many gates before they would either have to retreat or be killed, thus protecting the other stores. And even if Peter and Flyboy couldnt have resecured the mall, if a lot of the stores still had the gates closed, they could enter them thru the air ducts.

[rawrOTD]

they could have defended the mall from both raiders and the undead
just had to get a little creative
however i wouldnt have locked the doors
they just would have smashed them and then what kinda zombie barrier would they have had?

[Chaos]

There was nothing they could have done that would have prevented the raiders from getting into the mall, and Peter knew that all too well. The reason why he didn't respond is that he didn't want to give them any information whatsoever, and at the same time, gather as much info about the raiders as he could.

Peter knew the raiders would let the zombies back in. He just didn't want to hand it to them on a silver platter.

[deadpunk]

The very first thing I said after watching Dawn was: After they spent all that time securing the mall from zombies and then clearing it out...why didn't they then spend time defending it from the possibility of an invasion from the living?

In this type of scenario, lawlessness is going to be the order of the day. Two cops should have known that better than anyone. They should have made some attempt to fortify the mall from an outside attack. Even if the bikers hadn't known/guessed they were living there, they should have assumed that looters would eventually make their way to the mall. It was way to early in the Rise for them to even possibly believe they were the last people alive.

[TerryAlexanderF]

I believe Stephen was envious of the Bikers because he saw that they were literally taking over the mall single handedly and very easily, and making a mockery of it, rampaging the stores and taking what they will. Stephen didn't like it, and wanted to get his fair share of the mall, and in his greed he shot, and then he was discovered, ran away, got shot in the air vents, and then attacked by the zombies.

If plot weren't restricting their advance, Stephen just could have taken his walkie-talkie up to the elevator shaft with him, instead of leaving it on the floor like a dummy. Then he would still have been shot, but he wouldn't have been killed, he would just have been injured.

But that's the movie world! =P As far as what Peter and Stephen could have done to protect the mall itself better, they could have stalled so long that the bikers would have to eventually leave. It would be very hard for the bikers to figure out how to get to their hideout, they might eventually catch on, climbing in the ducts or something, but I believe they wanted the mall itself more than killing the threesome.

[Philly_SWAT]

The very first thing I said after watching Dawn was: After they spent all that time securing the mall from zombies and then clearing it out...why didn't they then spend time defending it from the possibility of an invasion from the living?

In this type of scenario, lawlessness is going to be the order of the day. Two cops should have known that better than anyone. They should have made some attempt to fortify the mall from an outside attack. Even if the bikers hadn't known/guessed they were living there, they should have assumed that looters would eventually make their way to the mall. It was way to early in the Rise for them to even possibly believe they were the last people alive.
You are right, the SWAT members should have realised the mall was a good target for any living being to want to get into, whether they realised our heros were in there or not. I like to think that maybe they didnt over-barricade in case some decent, innocent survivors happened to come by the mall, possibly in a vehicle, and they could have shouted instructions from the roof "go to this end, we'll help you get in" etc. I mean, the mall was a pretty big safehouse for only 4 people. Especially as officers who are used to helping people, if the barricades were too secure, anyone who came p might be dead before they could safely let them in.

[Danny]

they could have defended the mall from both raiders and the undead
just had to get a little creative


someones been watching home alone...:sneaky:



edit- 3100th post, mini woot.

[OddDNA]

Well, I dont think that they could have done a better job of "protecting the mall" but they could have done a much better job in protecting themselves. Some thoughts....
I think we have to assume that Peter could have responded, that he didnt want to. I am not a technology expert, and especially not a 1978 technology expert, but I dont think that the bikers could have been sending their message on a frequency that would cuold over a regular AM/FM radio. It would only make sense that Peter would have brought some type of short-wave radio to the hideout, and I seem to remember something looking like a mic sitting on the table as they were listening. Therefore I think it is safe to assume that they could have replied, but I think Peter was correct in not responding.
This is absolutley correct. Peter did not know that the bikers knew they were in there, but he had to assume that they probably did. I mean, he told Roger earlier that the "chopper up there may give us away". I always thought they should have covered the chopper with a tarp or something. But since Peter didnt know for sure they knew, it was only smart not to respond. The bikers probably wouldnt have seen the fake wall, hell, Blades was right in front of it and didnt notice.
I think a couple of things were going thru Peters mind here. One, he probably knew that the bikers were going to get in no matter what. I doubt at night that they could have killed all the bikers before they got to the loading dock. So why piss them off further? Also, as a police officer, Peter was probably familiar with the biker mentality, and knew they would be careless, and would get into plenty of danger without their help. I mean, once you bust open the mall, obviously, zombies would follow you in. Peter would also know that the bikers couldnt kill all the zombies that were out there, and that the bikers would not be careful enough to be able to loot the mall indefinatley and keep the zombies at bay, so they would either leave or be killed. Therefore, the biker threat would be eliminated one way or the other with no danger to our heros. If they were so inclined, since Fran knew how to fly now, Peter and Flyboy could have tried to same trick to move another truck, learning from the mistakes of Roger, or simply tried to move the other truck back, which was still hotwired, which is how the bikers moved it. But I think firing from the roof would have served no purpose other than to piss the bikers off, and maybe make them more mad and want to find and kill our heros, rather than just loot the mall. Remember what Peter told Flyboy, "They're just interested in the place, not us", or something like that. Plus, our group in the mall was trying to live as normal as before, and just killing people for the hell of it is not the act of "civilized" people. Peter only killed Wooley when he was blantently killing innocents. Peter was protecting people, not things, when he killed Wooley.
True, but the more gates that were closed, the less that would be opened. If the bikers could get into the mall without letting zombies in, then yes, why bother with the gates. But with "a thousand zombies" in there as well, the bikers would only be able to open so many gates before they would either have to retreat or be killed, thus protecting the other stores. And even if Peter and Flyboy couldnt have resecured the mall, if a lot of the stores still had the gates closed, they could enter them thru the air ducts.

I also think Peter was correct not replying, and I think he WAS able to if he wanted, I was just curious.

Biker mentality? Im not pro or anti biker but I dont just classify them as careless, especially if they were "living on the road all through this thing". I dont think they would have been able to kill all the raiders before they entered the mall but might break their moral and leave them vulnerable to the zombies while worrying about being shot up. I also think it would make them think twice about returning to the mall to loot it again if all went well.
Yes the raiders would have been pissed but I think it would have been too much work for the raiders to figure out how to get to them, again the raiders were not sure there were only 3 people there, it could have been 20.
I dont think there is only one solution to this problem but I do think my plan would work the best as I assume you feel about yours.

They could have secured the mall, but it would have been a much more boring movie. Same for them killing the zombies through the ducts or gates.

[Philly_SWAT]

I also think Peter was correct not replying, and I think he WAS able to if he wanted, I was just curious.

Biker mentality? Im not pro or anti biker but I dont just classify them as careless, especially if they were "living on the road all through this thing". I dont think they would have been able to kill all the raiders before they entered the mall but might break their moral and leave them vulnerable to the zombies while worrying about being shot up. I also think it would make them think twice about returning to the mall to loot it again if all went well.
Yes the raiders would have been pissed but I think it would have been too much work for the raiders to figure out how to get to them, again the raiders were not sure there were only 3 people there, it could have been 20.
I dont think there is only one solution to this problem but I do think my plan would work the best as I assume you feel about yours.

They could have secured the mall, but it would have been a much more boring movie. Same for them killing the zombies through the ducts or gates.

I did not mean to imply that all bikers were careless, but from Peter's experience dealing with all sorts of people, he would be a good judge of ......... inclinations .....of various people he had to deal with day to day as a cop. Innocent people, robbers, liars, domestic abuse, etc., he had to be a pretty good judge of what actions he thought a potential threat was going to make. When he heard all of the hooting and hollerin' on the radio in the background as the guy was trying to BS them, that had to give him an indication that this particular group of bikers were careless. When the one guy is trying to convince the "mall inhabitants" that there was only three of them, and Peter can hear 20 others in the background, obviously that is a very careless way of trying to get your lie across.

But as far as shooting the bikers as they approached the mall, I say that would be a cold and callous thing to do. He shot Wooley to protect the innocent people in 107. He didnt shoot the innocents or any other cops. In a world that was rapidly becoming the dead versus the living, it would be a hell of thing to start killing those that were still alive. If anything, that would just add to the ranks of the dead. Seeing the biker gang was proof that others in the world were still living, who knows how many others were still alive? What if the zombie outbreak were contained, would Peter (or Flyboy and Fran for that matter) want to have the death of a bunch of people on their conscience just to protect a mall that wasnt even really theirs? They were squatters after all. It may have been the better strategic move to hold the mall, but at what cost to their humanity? I mean, Dr. Raush's suggestion to drop nukes on all major US cities may have been the best strategic move to kill as many zombies as possible, but how many of the living would be killed as well? As the only movie of the 4 that had the main protaginists co-operating and being the "good guys" as best they could, it would go against all that is good to shoot the bikers just to protect the Brown Derby and the National Bank.

[OddDNA]

I did not mean to imply that all bikers were careless, but from Peter's experience dealing with all sorts of people, he would be a good judge of ......... inclinations .....of various people he had to deal with day to day as a cop. Innocent people, robbers, liars, domestic abuse, etc., he had to be a pretty good judge of what actions he thought a potential threat was going to make. When he heard all of the hooting and hollerin' on the radio in the background as the guy was trying to BS them, that had to give him an indication that this particular group of bikers were careless. When the one guy is trying to convince the "mall inhabitants" that there was only three of them, and Peter can hear 20 others in the background, obviously that is a very careless way of trying to get your lie across.

But as far as shooting the bikers as they approached the mall, I say that would be a cold and callous thing to do. He shot Wooley to protect the innocent people in 107. He didnt shoot the innocents or any other cops. In a world that was rapidly becoming the dead versus the living, it would be a hell of thing to start killing those that were still alive. If anything, that would just add to the ranks of the dead. Seeing the biker gang was proof that others in the world were still living, who knows how many others were still alive? What if the zombie outbreak were contained, would Peter (or Flyboy and Fran for that matter) want to have the death of a bunch of people on their conscience just to protect a mall that wasnt even really theirs? They were squatters after all. It may have been the better strategic move to hold the mall, but at what cost to their humanity? I mean, Dr. Raush's suggestion to drop nukes on all major US cities may have been the best strategic move to kill as many zombies as possible, but how many of the living would be killed as well? As the only movie of the 4 that had the main protaginists co-operating and being the "good guys" as best they could, it would go against all that is good to shoot the bikers just to protect the Brown Derby and the National Bank.



Good point about how the bikers handled themselves on the CB.

I would have shot them no problem, I see it as every man for themselves at that point. They were not exactly innocent bystanders. (If Peter could reply on the CB he could have warned them.."if you approach we will respond with deadly force" That should keep his conscience clear. Plus he really didnt have a problem shooting them once they were in the mall. I know Stephen shot 1st but Peter could have easily avoided killing any raiders, he seemed to kill some and take pleasure in it. I dont really know if I by the whole conscience thing.

By the way dont come to me during a zombie outbreak I will shoot you in the back and take your supplies :)

[jim102016]

There's no way Peter, Stephen and a heavily pregnant Fran could have resecured the mall after the bikers were done. Even if they could move that truck back, I remember that mexican bandit shot the hell out of the control panel with his .45 Tommy Gun...so how could the loading dock door be effectively closed? Those bikers let SO many zombies in, no only in the mall like before, but they were in the stores! It would probably take 20 or 40 people to do the job of resecuring the mall (if at all possible) since those zombies would now be in every conceivable dark corner.

Of course Peter was able to respond to the bikers, but why give those bastards anymore information? Keep them on their toes! That helicopter model can only hold five people, but who would the bikers know there aren't other people as well? Why give them any reason to climb up on the roof?

The mall was too big a target to protect effectively,they should have realized that and taken precautions. What they should have done was put a steel-reinforced brick wall behind their artifical fake wall for starters so zombies couldn't get in no matter what the hell happened. Second, they should have stored supplies in enormous quantites behind that wall. Perhaps they should have also hidden supplies in a few stores around the mall...making the stores appear as if they were being renovated or under construction before the emergency hit. They way they could have survived a bit longer in the mall safely until they came up with a plan or until Fran had her baby.

[TerryAlexanderF]

There would be countless numbers of zombies there, but one thing that coul dhave possibly been to sit in the shafts and take out each zombie one by one. After that, they could have boarded up the entrance like they did with the passage to their hideout. It would have taken some craftmenship and marksmenship, but they showed both throughout the movie.

[HLS]

I do not think they could have done anything. They were greatly out manned.

[Wyldwraith]

There was one thing with a slim chance of success if our heroes were bound and determined to try and protect the mall. It would be intensely complicated, highly dangerous and would probably fail but as the bikers approached they could've called down to them asking to talk to the boss. When they could put a face to the voice they'd heard on the radio they could try to put a bullet in him.

Now, I dont for a minute think that would've been an intelligent move. Nor do I think it would've stopped a break-in by the bikers of some sort. But from what we saw of them their leader was the entire brains of the outfit, the rest seemed completely anarchist and well, stupid. Taking him out at least would have sown some confusion in the bikers ranks, and (probably) a very vengeful, badly disorganized, and ultimately failed attempt to find them and do horrible things to them out of revenge.

If you dont like that idea, then trying to bait the zombies into concentrating their horde in the likely break-in point might've acted as a deterrent. But ultimately, all they could've done was taken revenge on the bikers by making their break in and desecration of their stronghold for greeds sake harder. It was inevitable.

[Brubaker]

I'm curious as to how long the bikers would have been in the mall if they had not been fired upon. Say they decided that it'd be a nice place to park some of their bikes, hole up and enjoy the luxuries that the mall has to offer. Sure, they'd have gotten bored sooner or later. However, I could easily picture at least a few of them sticking around to make sure the mall was kept "in their name" while other bikers might be out on the road.

[Philly_SWAT]

I'm curious as to how long the bikers would have been in the mall if they had not been fired upon. Say they decided that it'd be a nice place to park some of their bikes, hole up and enjoy the luxuries that the mall has to offer. Sure, they'd have gotten bored sooner or later. However, I could easily picture at least a few of them sticking around to make sure the mall was kept "in their name" while other bikers might be out on the road.

Seeing as they were more interested in hootin'and hollerin' and getting their blood pressure checked while zombies poured in the door, I think any that stayed would have been zombie chow pretty quick.

[dracenstein]

I think Peter and Stephen should have started shooting as the raiders made their approach.

They might or might not have killed any of them, but if a couple bikes went down, a couple more might go over them, others would veer away and drive into the zombies.

Being shot up from above and with hundreds of zombies coming at them, they might have decided to go away. Why take casualties when there must be other places to loot?

I think only half of them got out again anyway.

As for the defenders, did they really want to go through clearing the mall again? That's if the raiders/zombies hadn't killed Stephen in the first place. It would only have been Peter and Stephen to clear the mall with a door wide open! Fran was too big to help.

And could only two men have closed that door and put that truck back (ripping the wires out this time) without being overwhelmed by the zombies?

I think not.

By letting the raiders in, they would have to abandon the mall. It was too untenable.