Roger's behaviour a script flaw?

[7734]

Somehow, the way things spiraled down with Roger just never made much sense.

Yeah, he was a bit of a hyperactive fool, but for the whole first half of the film he was cool and calculated. The man moved with finesse and precision; there didn't seem to be a second's worth of hesitation or fear when he was grabbed by the handyman zombie. he just shoved the screwdriver in his ear and la di da went back to business.

then in the trucks, supposedly where he grew up, he started losing it.
Am i the only one who thinks that this change in behaviour was just tossed in so that someone could die and turn? Roger forgetting his bag and then going a little ape**** when bathed in zombie blood makes little sense to me.

[capncnut]

I always thought of it as a gradual madness and the sheer danger of blocking the entrance made him crack under pressure. Not only that but earlier on all four of 'em nearly got killed at the airport so the importance of the team's survival must have been playing on his mind. I also see shades of madness in him beforehand when he flashes that grin while offing zombies or the odd close-up where his facial expression changes strangely.

There are a few scenes in the movie where Roger is not a happy bunny. For example when he shares a smoke with Peter in the 107 basement (seems confused and desperate to run) or when they escape from the airport, he is biting his nails and looking sketchy as Peter and Flyboy bicker in the helicopter.

I'm rambling now but I say it was a gradual thing.

[Philly_SWAT]

I dont think it was so much a gradual thing, unless you mean that he had reached his breaking point. He had been dealing with the zombie outbreak for weeks as a SWAT officer, clearing out buildings and blowing zombies away. When he went to the basement, he was feeling physically sick at the carnage he had just witnessed, but quickly gathered himself together. When they went to the area where the residents had been storing there dead, it was Peter who had a momentary lapse in resolve, he runs out of bullets, and instead an immediately reloading, he hesitates and starts to cry. It is Roger who steps in and shoots the zombie crawling toward Peter, and then Peter regains his composure.

At the airport, Roger acts calmly and dispatches the airport zombie with due haste. After they leave the airport, Roger plays peacemaker between Peter and Flyboy in the chopper. At the truckyard, he has the face and brains of a female zombie splatter all over his face. At this point, he becomes a little unhinged. Peter brings him back to reality with the "your not just playing with your life, your playing with mine" speech. When Roger gets bit, he is back in control, it was just a misfortunate circumstance.

Of course, it was a major plot point that Roger got bit and then turned, but I think GAR laid out a believable path in Roger temporarily losing control. He forgot the bag when he was still in a bad mental-state, before Peter brings him back around.

[capncnut]

When he went to the basement, he was feeling physically sick at the carnage he had just witnessed.

A good enough reason to get the ball rolling.


At the truckyard, he has the face and brains of a female zombie splatter all over his face. At this point, he becomes a little unhinged.

Well if you remember correctly he was unhinged a little while before that when he started hollering and screaming as he jumped out of the truck. At one point he allows a zombie to touch his face for a full couple of seconds before decking him. He became cocky and sure of himself. In other words, he lost it. Way before he blew Jeannie Jeffries head off.

[HLS]

well i di dnot notice any real change till he was bitten. but he was indeed careless at the trucks. I mean he is a trained sniper i would think, he was overly care free that day i agree

[Philly_SWAT]

Way before he blew Jeannie Jeffries head off.
Roger didnt blow her head off, Peter did.

I dont think he "allowed" the zombie to touch his face, the zombie just did as he was trying to attack him, and Roger temporarily froze.

[bassman]

I always considered it as a person dealing with a problem for so long that it begins to tear at them. The final breaking point was when the zombie touched his face. This was the final breaking point, to me.

He thought he was invincible, but when the zombie got very close to him and he ultimatly escaped, that's when he lost himself and reality. He took it to mean that no matter what.....he would be okay. He was strong.

Also, I think the illusion of "owning" the mall was clouding his judgment...

[bassman]

I always considered it as a person dealing with a problem for so long that it begins to tear at them. The final breaking point was win the zombie touched his face. This was the final breaking point to me.

He thought he was invincible, but when the zombie got very close to him and he ultimatly escaped, that's when he lost himself and reality. He took it to mean that no matter what.....he would be okay. He was strong.

Also, I think the illusion of "owning" the mall was clouding his judgment...

[Philly_SWAT]

Also, I think the illusion of "owning" the mall was clouding his judgment...
I wasnt sure which post to respond to, so I chose this one!:)

This is a good point. I think of all us get a little too caught up in "owning" anything. We will all be dead one day, and at that point, we will not longer own anything. We let ownership of our material possesions cloud our judgement every day.

[Doc Liberty]

They were all flawed to the point of being self-destructive, apart from Fran. They all demonstrated a particular flaw in the film.

Roger's flaw was carelessness. He was careless inside the mall, but got away with it. Later he got bit because of his carelessness.

Stephen's flaw was arrogance. He thought he was as good as the SWAT guys with guns. He was arrogant when refueling the plane, and in the maintenance room. Later he got bit because of his carelessness.

Peter's flaw was being ready to give up. In the basement killing zombies he nearly gives up. At the end when Fran gets on the helicopter he nearly gives up again (I understand in one version he does give up and stay behind).

I think maybe the whole think is symbolic. We are all flawed and will become unstuck as a result. But will the next generation (Fran's baby) repeat the flaws??

[Maitreya]

When they went to the area where the residents had been storing there dead, it was Peter who had a momentary lapse in resolve, he runs out of bullets, and instead an immediately reloading, he hesitates and starts to cry.

It may be a little off-topic, but I've got to say I've always loved the subtlety of that part, how you have to look sort of close to see that single tear going down Peter's face.

Anyways, back on topic, it was sort of obvious that he was mentally unstable, watch his facial expressions throughout the movie after the raid, they're so erratic. As soon as they got into the mall you could start to see it in his attitude that he was losing it. This of course ended up in him being bitten and his untimely demise.

[Philly_SWAT]

(I understand in one version he does give up and stay behind).This in not in a version of the film, only in the original script, for the record.

[capncnut]

it was sort of obvious that he was mentally unstable, watch his facial expressions throughout the movie after the raid, they're so erratic. As soon as they got into the mall you could start to see it in his attitude that he was losing it.

Completely true. Someone who has eyes!

[Philly_SWAT]

It may be a little off-topic, but I've got to say I've always loved the subtlety of that part, how you have to look sort of close to see that single tear going down Peter's face. That is one thing that is better about the Cannes cut than the theatrical cut. In the theatrical, GAR cuts out the tear shot, and Roger coming over and shooting the approaching zombie, and Peter kind of hitting Roger on the arm with his arm as if to say "good looking out". Then Roger shoots a bunch of other zombies, and then the other dude opens the shute door and says "Jese Christ. You OK down here?" IN the theatrical, in my memory serves, it just shows Roger step in and shoot one zombie, then goes directly to the shut opening.

[Bongholio]

http://home.comcast.net/~gibstah/basement.gif

[rawrOTD]

Roger was my favorite character
I thought his facial reactions were complete and utter insanity as time went on
like someone else said above me
I think he was getting a bit too caught up in how easy it all seemed

how easily they took the mall
how easily they walked past the zombies
how easy it was to kill them
he was so fast
and they were so slow
him so smart
and them so dumb

he had everything at his disposal, a dream that materialistic 1970s america (not that its changed much)
was obsessed upon

the dream of owning it all
it seemed he was a god

so
he got lax
less aware of the danger

while flyboy really got greedy
roger simply got cocky

while the world slipped into the grip of mass hysteria and chaos
roger and his friends had found a palace
they had found it, in Rogers mind maybe he took this as a sign that they were better than the rest
smarter than he rest of the world as they died in houses and city flats
they were better off than most of the world, barricaded with supplies and tools
more wealthy than they had been in normal life
it was roger and the rest who were not only surviving, but living the good life

the slow hints at his mental state and psychological fatigue show in his reactions and face
sure hes got the energy
but when he ran past all those zombies
didnt it seem like roger was just playing games?

he didnt expect to slip up
and when he did and Peter blew the zombies brains all over him
it was shattered

his bravery and skill
was shredded

so I took his going back for the bag as an attempt to demonstrate to himself that he still had it
he could still beat them all, outsmart them all
and so he went even harder to prove that his luck,finesse, and instincts were still intact
desperate to recreate his illusion of control
but he didnt pull off the stunt

and so he died

ps. anyone else think "we got this by the ass " is a really bizarre thing to say?

[Philly_SWAT]

ps. anyone else think "we got this by the ass " is a really bizarre thing to say?Yes. I dont think that was even a "catch-phrase" or anything even back then.

[Maitreya]

Yes. I dont think that was even a "catch-phrase" or anything even back then.

Yea, but apparently the word "man" was... Jesus did they say that a lot in that movie.

Actually, after reading this thread I think I'm gonna go watch Dawn right now...

[OddDNA]

Yes. I dont think that was even a "catch-phrase" or anything even back then.


Ive heard it said growing up.

[Suicycho]

I always thought of it as a gradual madness and the sheer danger of blocking the entrance made him crack under pressure. Not only that but earlier on all four of 'em nearly got killed at the airport so the importance of the team's survival must have been playing on his mind. I also see shades of madness in him beforehand when he flashes that grin while offing zombies or the odd close-up where his facial expression changes strangely.

There are a few scenes in the movie where Roger is not a happy bunny. For example when he shares a smoke with Peter in the 107 basement (seems confused and desperate to run) or when they escape from the airport, he is biting his nails and looking sketchy as Peter and Flyboy bicker in the helicopter.

I'm rambling now but I say it was a gradual thing.

I agree. When he is first introduced, he almost seems to be enjoying the structured process of the raid, smiling and joking about the chiefs canned plea with Martinez over the bullhorn.


The Other two SWAT members in that scene, Tucker and Wooley, are almost symbolic representations of Rogers dual personality. two other SWAT members prominent in that scene. On one hand is the timid, frightened Mr. Tucker. On the other is the wild and wooley Mr...Wooley. Thats reading waaay to much into it but hey, we are discussing Rogers descent into madness. :lol:

[MikePizzoff]

I'm sure there would be plenty of people that'd crack like Roger did. All the pressure and horror of dealing with zombies and having to not only take care of yourself but also look out for 3 other people would be sure to make some people go insane.

[coma]

Yea, but apparently the word "man" was... Jesus did they say that a lot in that movie.

Actually, after reading this thread I think I'm gonna go watch Dawn right now...
People didn't really say dude or guy or whatnot then. It was man all the way, with an occasional Bro. 60s /70s that was definately the word of choice.
And people did say "i got this by the ass" or "they got me by the ass"
Maybe it was a northeast thing, or fell out of favor in the early 80s.


I'm sure there would be plenty of people that'd crack like Roger did. All the pressure and horror of dealing with zombies and having to not only take care of yourself but also look out for 3 other people would be sure to make some people go insane.
People crack under way, way less pressure. Some people wig out over basically nothing.

[triste realtà]

What I wanna know is: when John Harrison is on top of Roger, why didn't the other 2 just pick him up? They were right there. Why would you even think about shooting him? They were 5 feet away!!!

[Philly_SWAT]

Presumably because they didnt want to get bitten themselves. Why grab a zombie when you have a gun in your hand? Either way there was a risk to Roger, why risk themselves as well?

[red max]

I don't think you can rationalise this bit dramatically. George realised he had a continuity problem with Roger's sweater no longer being around his waist, so added this scene to explain it. The way Peter stands there pointing his gun then looking unsure, that's pretty unconvincing. With the benefit of hindsight he and flyboy should have kept on running, unaware of Roger's situation. Of course they could have dealt with it, it's a clumsy moment

[Philly_SWAT]

With the benefit of hindsight he and flyboy should have kept on running, unaware of Roger's situation.You dont think that Roger falling to the floor would have created noise? And dont you think if they had kept running, they would have realised quickly that Roger was no longer with them? And you dont think Roger would have called out to them if they had kept running?

A better question would be, why was that zombie standing totally still with a bunch of manequins, and then lashed out at Roger, who was third in line?

[triste realtà]

A better question would be, why was that zombie standing totally still with a bunch of manequins, and then lashed out at Roger, who was third in line?

This was my next question (that occurred to me last night). But I think he lashed out at Roger cause he wanted that sweater.:lol:

[capncnut]

The mannequin zombie lashed out at Roger 'cos he knew it would make the popcorn fly. :p

[MissJacksonCA]

I didn't think it was purely so someone 'good' would turn into a zombie. I felt he was the kind of person who puts up a brave front but eventually stuff eats at him so bad that he began to lose it. I mean coming close to death that first time in the trucks and having lived he felt he was impervious to death. Welcome to the real world Roger, when the floor falls out and you dont fall too far beware... you never know when its going to fall out again...
he got cocky and lost his marbles

[coma]

I didn't think it was purely so someone 'good' would turn into a zombie. I felt he was the kind of person who puts up a brave front but eventually stuff eats at him so bad that he began to lose it. I mean coming close to death that first time in the trucks and having lived he felt he was impervious to death. Welcome to the real world Roger, when the floor falls out and you dont fall too far beware... you never know when its going to fall out again...
he got cocky and lost his marbles

"Do you think it's right to run?" Roger asks Peter in the basement.

Sometimes people with trauma and survivors guilt put themselves into suicidal situations on purpose. They dont want to die, but dont want to live so they put themselves in dangerous positions. He was a Swat team police officer and was , I believe, supposed to have been a marine so it wasnt the first time he was in harms way.

[MissJacksonCA]

But I agree with what you mean on survivors guilt

[darth los]

What I wanna know is: when John Harrison is on top of Roger, why didn't the other 2 just pick him up? They were right there. Why would you even think about shooting him? They were 5 feet away!!!


For the same reason fran was just standing there like a deer in the headlights while a zombie was attacking stephen at the airport: it was in the script. :D

[acealive1]

it all started when 'rod tucker' was shot during the martinez raid. it only got worse after the preacher gave him the heebee geebees. and then the screw driver thing made him that much worse. but when they got the second truck and roger got cornered......that my friend was the nail in the coffin. his whole demeanor changed.

[darth los]

Also, if you look at his face in the apartment when he guns down the female zombie and again when his swat teammate offed himself, he looked less than "together".

[sandrock74]

The first part of dawn seems to be Rogers slow but study decent into madness (or carelessness).

[darth los]

The first part of dawn seems to be Rogers slow but study decent into madness (or carelessness).


I agree. With no other outlet to vent he let whatever was building up inside him fester until that zombie blood spilled all over his face. Although i'm not sure of what actually made him snap. The zombie blood on his face or the fact that he would have bought it if Peter wasn't there to help.

[acealive1]

Also, if you look at his face in the apartment when he guns down the female zombie and again when his swat teammate offed himself, he looked less than "together".


yeah he definitely had the lights on and nobodies home look. me personally i woulda totally took him aside and slapped him senseless in jc pennys

[darth los]

me personally i woulda totally took him aside and slapped him senseless in jc pennys

:lol: :lol: and i'm sure the people in his group noticed something off about his behavior and didn't say anything. when peter straightened him out in the truck it was too late. When they went to get the second truck, peter saw roger hootin' and hollerin' and looked at him real funny. Then after he shot the female zombie on top of him he asked him if he was all right. Clearly then he saw that something was wrong. In hindsight that was the time to speak up.

[Philly_SWAT]

I jave been in that JC Penney's. It would be a good place to slap someone silly......

[darth los]

I'm sure that was your expressed reason for going. Staking out spots in order to administer corporal punishment. :elol:

[acealive1]

i'd give him a few backhands honestly. take him in the freezer and beat him

[darth los]

i'd give him a few backhands honestly. take him in the freezer and beat him


He was in no shape to go out in the open like that. Unfortunately they needed his services to accomplish their goals. There was no one else. If there were others it probably would have been prudent to shut him down like they did to salazar in day who also wasn't up to the tasks at hand.

[mista_mo]

You dont think that Roger falling to the floor would have created noise? And dont you think if they had kept running, they would have realised quickly that Roger was no longer with them? And you dont think Roger would have called out to them if they had kept running?


1)yes it would have created noise, but while they [peter & flyboy] are at a fast run, their own feet slamming into the ground, the moans of dozens of zombies echoing throughtout the place, do you honestly think they would have heard too much?

2)I agree with this point, however, keep in mind they had their objective in mind, and wanted to get the f*ck out of that place asap. It happens.

3)maybe. He could have also been in such a state of shock that he couldn't make a peep. Again, it happens. I've done it before, when i've had someone tackle me and i wasn't paying attention, the only noise that came outta me was the air being pushed out of my lungs and my wheezing that followed. If that guy were a zombie i'd be dead, the same goes for roger. He also had to get rid of said zombie before he ate his face so, you can understand if he wouldn't exactly be able to call out for help with such pressing matters at
hand.

Rogers madness was gradual, but I feel it started far before the events in Dawn. You can tell from the first few scenes he isn't exactly all their.

[darth los]

Rogers madness was gradual, but I feel it started far before the events in Dawn. You can tell from the first few scenes he isn't exactly all their.

I agree with that. In fact there were a few people, wooley in particular, that weren't all there from the start. The kid who killed himself in that apartment was also mentally screwed up. The actions of these men were most likely caused be weeks of stress.


1)yes it would have created noise, but while they [peter & flyboy] are at a fast run, their own feet slamming into the ground, the moans of dozens of zombies echoing throughtout the place, do you honestly think they would have heard too much?

I was more taken aback by the fact that they just stood there watching their friend struggle. UH, ALITTLE HELP HERE GUYS!! :dead:

[sandrock74]

I was more taken aback by the fact that they just stood there watching their friend struggle. UH, ALITTLE HELP HERE GUYS!!

You know, I always found it odd that Flyboy and Peter just stood around watching and not doing anything to help ol' Roger out! Maybe thats why he went mad...

[darth los]

That's just one of the many times the characters of that film engaged in puzzling behavior. Fran also does the same thing when a zombie attacks her man at the airport.

[jim102016]

I didn't see it listed, but doesn't the book say that Roger was a Vietnam veteran? Perhaps the trauma of the dead coming added to the strains inflicted on his mind from years of working on the SWAT team awakened or created PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)?

[darth los]

I didn't see it listed, but doesn't the book say that Roger was a Vietnam veteran? Perhaps the trauma of the dead coming added to the strains inflicted on his mind from years of working on the SWAT team awakened or created PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)?


I wouldn't doubt it. The book goes into alot of intricate detail that just wasn't possible in the movie. It gives alot of cool intricate details such as his last name was DeMarco.

[RustyHicks]

As others said, weeks and weeks of seeing this hell before his eyes and being responsible for killing zombies strained him to his breaking point. We can only imagine what Roger has seen in the weeks before the movie took place. When that zombie attacks him in the truck, the two zombies I should say and Peter runs one over and blows the other away, Roger gets cocky, he wants to show those zombies that they won't get to the best of him, you can see his sanity crumbling around him. Peter knocks him out of it with his speech, but I think he was still raved up, just working on calming down. He might not have dropped his bag if he hadn't been startled by Franny's gun going off up over his head. It was then the crap hit the fan and we lost a good fighter.

[darth los]

As others said, weeks and weeks of seeing this hell before his eyes and being responsible for killing zombies strained him to his breaking point. We can only imagine what Roger has seen in the weeks before the movie took place. When that zombie attacks him in the truck, the two zombies I should say and Peter runs one over and blows the other away, Roger gets cocky, he wants to show those zombies that they won't get to the best of him, you can see his sanity crumbling around him. Peter knocks him out of it with his speech, but I think he was still raved up, just working on calming down. He might not have dropped his bag if he hadn't been startled by Franny's gun going off up over his head. It was then the crap hit the fan and we lost a good fighter.


I agree that the zombies attacking him in the truck was the last straw for him but he was acting cocky way before that. In the department store when he shot that zombie in the head that he puled in he's actually smiling . He was having a good time. I wonder though if peter's speech made roger lose his edge to the point that it caused him to get bit. Say what ever you want about roger's reckless behavior but he never got bit before that.