Secure Beneath the Watchful Eyes

[Eyebiter]

UK folks - is this poster legit?

http://www.signs-of-the-times.org/signs/pods/watchful_eyes.jpg

[Terran]

*shivers*

[Bongholio]

isn't that special

[tju1973]

While I live in free America, freedom is only a state of mind. It may someday be that the only free people are those who go to any level to deny other any and all freedoms...

including the government....


:confused:

[Arcades057]

Paging Orwell...

[Cykotic]

holy s**t!

Big Brother really is watching us....

[Danny]

news to me, still i bloody hate going to london anyway so what the hell:moon:

[Neil]

Doesn't bother me... The more camera's the better...

[_liam_]

i think that poster is fake. i've certainly never seen it, and it's not like they'd just make *one*...

but i agree with neil. who cares if the government has a grainy video of you walking down the street at 3pm? if it helps catch violent criminals, then fair play. it's not like they put cameras on your front lawn or in residential areas (apart from pretty violent areas).

[MinionZombie]

Must be some kinda publicity stunt or whatever...

CCTV I'm generally fine with, but it's sh*t like ID cards and national databases that goes waaaaaaay beyond the pale. Would you trust people who spent millions on telling their myriad of pencil pushers how to organise their desk and ask them whether their lunch-time banana is active or inactive, with all your information?

Such a computer would blatantly be hacked into - utter chaos and identity-related carnage would ensue, not for days, not for weeks, not for months - for years. Nothing is secure, it most definitely would be hacked - besides, they don't need that much information on us.

This gubment is all about control, they think we work for them but they completely forget the government is supposed to work for the people of the country they're supposed to be improving.

Labour ****ing sicken me beyond belief. Burn the whole lot of them so we can get this country fixed again! :eek:

[Danny]

it can allways be worse, if us brits go over to america doesnt the cia take our fingerprints now and adds them to a database?

[_liam_]

ID cards? apart from biometric data, don't see the fuss. people already carry a passport, driving license, national insurance/social security numbers, insurance details, NHS files, national record of achievement as well as the records the education/employment systems keep. makes no difference, imho...

[MinionZombie]

Dude, it makes the world of difference. It really does, it's not just some average scheme, this is a movement which is being seriously persued by lawyers and Human Rights representatives. It's meeting with wide disapproval - this isn't just some ordinary old wank...

[Danny]

just one more step towards getting "THX-some random number" tatoed on our asses:rolleyes:

[Tricky]

Sinister...reminds me of these
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/posters/sieg1.jpg
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/posters/staub.jpg

[MikePizzoff]

Big brother is watching. Big brother is watching. Big brother is watching. Big brother is watching. Big brother is watching. Big brother is watching. Big brother is watching. Big brother is watching. Big brother is watching. Big brother is watching. Big brother is watching. Big brother is watching. Big brother is watching. Big brother is watching. Big brother is watching. Big brother is watching. Big brother is watching. Big brother is watching. Big brother is watching. Big brother is watching. Big brother is watching. Big brother is watching. Big brother is watching. Big brother is watching.

http://www.ociocritico.com/oc/wp/wp-content/images/1984.jpg

[Danny]

but no-ones watching big brother.

cus it sucks:cool:

[Bongholio]

Come to tell them where I am have you little fella?
Mama don't like tattle tale's plow!
get your nano - netting here
http://www.gazette.net/stories/072106/businew181538_31920.shtml
Students only on the links tricky

[MinionZombie]

Is there anything Hellsing won't make a dodgy pun about? :eek:

If only people would take the movie (and comics) V For Vendetta a bit more seriously - the government works for us, not the other way around.

I think people these days are not bothered enough about national issues, they're too busy beating a drum about something we have no control over (e.g. climate change, to make themselves feel better about owning a 4x4). People these days are just getting drunk or watching reality shows to forget about the real world and how Britain is getting screwed over. They swallow everything the gubment says as gospel truth, meanwhile it's nothing but lies and fudged statistics.

If only there was a completely independent body that couldn't be touched by the government, to keep an eye on them and provide the truth to the idiots out there who can't realise it for themselves.

[Arcades057]

Hey, as long as you Brits are happy with it, us Yanks can't say anything about it. Just strikes me as a bit strange to be content with all the CCTV cameras and such.


Is there anything Hellsing won't make a dodgy pun about? :eek:


How else can one get their post count up to 3,000+ in ten months? :rolleyes:

[_liam_]

Dude, it makes the world of difference. It really does, it's not just some average scheme, this is a movement which is being seriously persued by lawyers and Human Rights representatives. It's meeting with wide disapproval - this isn't just some ordinary old wank...

that's just rhetoric, mz.
i'm not trying to start a fight, but saying it's any worse than the examples i listed because "a bunch of people oppose it" simply wont do.
how exactly is it so much worse? i mean, i admitted the biometric data thing was a bit dodgy, but if you THINK about it, they already have such data on us via BCG (and other) innoculation records...

we do have to posess all the paperwork/bull**** i mentioned already. an ID card, as i understand, would just be a condensation of all that to stop people leaping through the loopholes such a flurry of paperwork presents.

it's not that i can't see where youre coming from, i read 1984 and brave new world in school too! - but frankly it sounds like paranoid hysteria.
what do you think will happen if we have to carry ID cards, that they will check everyone in the street "vere ah your paperz?!" style? i mean for god's sake, of course they wont. police forces are stretched enough dealing with crime and now increased terrorist threats, they wont bother you unless you appear to be up to something, and if you aren't, then nothing will happen! - much the same as things already are, and have always been.

show me something non-speculative that proves they would be a bad idea...

[capncnut]

How else can one get their post count up to 3,000+ in ten months? :rolleyes:

The same way one gets 2600 in 4 months. :D

[Debbieangel]

Hey I live in a rural town and you talk about camera's there are camera's cropping up all over the place at signal lights. It is to catch anyone who goes through red lights when the cops aren't around to catch them.
It does make ya stop and think doesnt it? Big Brother watching? nah!;)
It is just kind of weird! So, watch when you are going through that red light guys the camera is watching you!!!! lol

[Arcades057]

The same way one gets 2600 in 4 months

Yow... :eek: I was at the old page for around 2 years before it closed down and moved here and I think I had a grand total of maybe 1k plus or minus a few. Most of those were from flames with Grim and Co., but it seems like people at this site just post something onto a topic like "Oh wow, makes my nose hurt from all the HPOTD!!" just to get their name in lights, ie on the opening screen.

But different strokes, I guess.

[_liam_]

well, there are a lot of boards here i suppose. it wouldnt be too hard notch up a few thousand if youre active on all of them (i only really post on media & general, occasionally dip into the dead boards, think i exhausted my capacity for constant dead talk a couple years back). i guess some people get an arcade leaderboard mentality about it all, but have to say i dont notice too many "me too" posts.

[MinionZombie]

Well if you want a fact, how about the fact that this crazy ID card mega-database scheme is not proven to be a good idea. One minute it's to stop terrorism, the next it's to stop fraud, the next it's something else - the so-called reason for their being is constantly changing.

The technology is complex and brand-spanking new, would you want this epic and nation-wide scheme to blast onto the scene and retain all your data when people aren't even sure it's a solid system - as well as the fact that this one mega computer with all this information will never been secure - no system is. If it was to get hacked - the potential chaos is unfathomable - and there is plenty of room for corruption and mistakes.

If the home office can't update its records on murderers, paedophiles and rapists, how on earth do you think this system - an epic system - could ever be maintained?

Another thing - the cost - the potential cost will exceed what Labour have said to the press. Costs are always bigger than you expect them to be (and that's not including politician figure-fudging).

The money can be better spent on streamlining our current system - how? By getting rid of the myriad of pencil pushers and red tape rollers that have been introduced since 1997 - people who are not needed. People whose sole purpose is to be bought by Labour to achieve votes in the long term.

The ID card system opens up a whole new opportunity for money-making potential - failure to update information (which you, the citizen, have to do) will result in a fine. We'll have to pay for the card, and tax payer's cash will go towards running the system that isn't actually needed - it's not proven in the slightest that it's needed. On one hand the government are taking away our privacy and right to not have everything known about us - why on earth do they need all this information from the get go? Why? There is no possibility that you need all this information from the off about everybody in the country - how often will it actually be needed? Hence - pointless system.

So on one hand they're taking away more of our privacy (CCTV is a good thing, as long as it isn't abused, but it's useless without bobbies on the beat to respond to the people controlling the cameras - a system therefore which is currently starting to break down with more and more officers - who have said themselves - are sat behind a desk filing reports and unable to be 'on the beat'). On the other they're lumping more pinickity responsiblities onto the average Brit - and when the kids leaving high school are becoming more and more incapable of spelling correctly (let alone knowing the history of our country) - how the hell are we going to cope? We have far too much to think about, and far too many things to worry about.

If we're not in compliance with a whole host of everyday things - now extending to our f*cking rubbish bins - then how can we cope with yet another fine-print-complying bit of half-witted, ill-considered legislation such as this?

These aren't 'crazy weird person talk' type thoughts, these are valid arguments against the ID card proposals and I'm very much against the scheme.

*sigh*

Okay, you're thoughts are stated, my thoughts are stated ... agree to disagree? Let's talk about other things, cos quite frankly Labour sicken me to the very core.

.............

On the other part of the thread that's now going on, what's wrong with a lot of posts - as long as the majority is quality then what's wrong with that? I might have posted a sh*tload, but I type very fast and have plenty to talk about - but then other times I have less to talk about. Peaks & troughs.

Also - the shoutbox is in no way connected to your forum posts. So posting there has absolutely no impact on your post count. :rockbrow:

[Terran]

well, there are a lot of boards here i suppose. it wouldnt be too hard notch up a few thousand if youre active on all of them (i only really post on media & general, occasionally dip into the dead boards, think i exhausted my capacity for constant dead talk a couple years back). i guess some people get an arcade leaderboard mentality about it all, but have to say i dont notice too many "me too" posts.

The "Word Game Forum".....AKA the "spam forum for post count increase"

:mad:

[bassman]

The "Word Game Forum".....AKA the "spam forum for post count increase"

:mad:

And this makes you mad, why?

Does someone feel left out?:p

[_liam_]

Well if you want a fact, how about the fact that this crazy ID card mega-database scheme is not proven to be a good idea. One minute it's to stop terrorism, the next it's to stop fraud, the next it's something else - the so-called reason for their being is constantly changing.

or maybe it's further reasons added to an existing list? depends on your bias...


The technology is complex and brand-spanking new, would you want this epic and nation-wide scheme to blast onto the scene and retain all your data when people aren't even sure it's a solid system - as well as the fact that this one mega computer with all this information will never been secure - no system is. If it was to get hacked - the potential chaos is unfathomable - and there is plenty of room for corruption and mistakes.

it wont be one mega computer. please. and no , no system is secure, least of all the current one, does the phrase "rising ID theft" mean anything? is a myriad of documents easier to secure than just one or two? i know NHS employees who are allowed to access the national database from their crappy un-firewalled home pcs. should we preserve that status quo?



If the home office can't update its records on murderers, paedophiles and rapists, how on earth do you think this system - an epic system - could ever be maintained?

that's partially the point, the system would, in time, become less grandiose and easier to maintain through a more unified system. you said yourself, one mega computer, as opposed to many, because that is what we have now.



Another thing - the cost - the potential cost will exceed what Labour have said to the press. Costs are always bigger than you expect them to be (and that's not including politician figure-fudging).

yep, it will cost more, got me there. but it will hamper terrorism and fraud to a certain degree, which carry their own costs, sometimes more than monetary.



The money can be better spent on streamlining our current system - how? By getting rid of the myriad of pencil pushers and red tape rollers that have been introduced since 1997 - people who are not needed. People whose sole purpose is to be bought by Labour to achieve votes in the long term.

gimme some of these positions.



The ID card system opens up a whole new opportunity for money-making potential - failure to update information (which you, the citizen, have to do) will result in a fine. We'll have to pay for the card, and tax payer's cash will go towards running the system that isn't actually needed - it's not proven in the slightest that it's needed.


those policies are not 100% solidified yet, but yes the 1k fine sounds bad, but will probably be softened up. the wilcock case wasnt that long ago, i think the man will try to soften & friendly-up the scheme somewhate before full implementation. and anyway most of the updating would be automatic. you have to do a similar degree of updating with regard to your tax returns, amongst other things. and i would say it is needed, the near-impenetrable burueacracy involved in sorting out citizenship here leaves loopholes. the borders are far too porous.



On one hand the government are taking away our privacy and right to not have everything known about us - why on earth do they need all this information from the get go? Why? There is no possibility that you need all this information from the off about everybody in the country - how often will it actually be needed? Hence - pointless system.

urm, well they wont need anymore information than you currently divulge through other mediums (the passport/nhs/NI list i mentioned earlier). the only way they could infringe on your privacy would be if they were to start demanding information about your preferences/bathroom habits etc. which they wont!



So on one hand they're taking away more of our privacy (CCTV is a good thing, as long as it isn't abused, but it's useless without bobbies on the beat to respond to the people controlling the cameras - a system therefore which is currently starting to break down with more and more officers - who have said themselves - are sat behind a desk filing reports and unable to be 'on the beat').

gawd you love your sweeping statements and rhetoric. it isnt "useless" per se, and guess what, every single time i've ever been out of an evening i've seen bobbies and patrol cars in locations around the UK such as north/east london, cardiff, newport, bristol, north somerset, lancashire blah blah blah. i agree there aren't enough, but that's quite different to there being none...



On the other they're lumping more pinickity responsiblities onto the average Brit - and when the kids leaving high school are becoming more and more incapable of spelling correctly (let alone knowing the history of our country) - how the hell are we going to cope? We have far too much to think about, and far too many things to worry about.

street crime is a growing problem which we as citizens do have to deal with ourselves sometimes, and that isn't right, but surely it has more to do with rising population numbers and an economy increasingly based on light industry than a ****ty government solely? a growing middle class who all go off to study media/arts/sciences with massive loans and a comfy family life to fall back on if they sod it up. lol, tremendous pressure on us, i'm from a working class background and i've never gone hungry a day in my life, never had trouble studying or getting a job (admittedly you do have to TRY, and sometimes, maybe even try again, but still).


If we're not in compliance with a whole host of everyday things - now extending to our f*cking rubbish bins - then how can we cope with yet another fine-print-complying bit of half-witted, ill-considered legislation such as this?

i think this is just hateful bashing now.
don't get me wrong, i dont like or vote new labour, but let's retain a degree of sobriety.
are you saying we shouldnt recycle? or are you saying they should come into your home and sort through your rubbish? wouldnt that be one of those invasions of privacy you dread? if you don't like having to sort your rubbish (and cmon, is it so much effort to put something in one bin instead of another? you **** in a toilet, not a waste paper basket, right?) - then just don't do it! nobody is forcing you!
i hear whispers of a phantom fine for not sorting rubbish, but when i'm feeling lazy i dont do it. nothing happens. honest.

part of being free to live the way you want to is taking the responsibility to stand up to people you think are oppressing you, instead of bitching about it and complying nonetheless. fight tha trash man!


These aren't 'crazy weird person talk' type thoughts, these are valid arguments against the ID card proposals and I'm very much against the scheme.

*sigh*

Okay, you're thoughts are stated, my thoughts are stated ... agree to disagree? Let's talk about other things, cos quite frankly Labour sicken me to the very core.

well, that's just the cowards way out to ask anyone with half-rational counter arguments to agree to disagree, besides, that kind of resolution is usually reserved for entirely subjective matters (issues of taste, etc), and while there are subjective elements to this debate, it essentially deals with cold hard facts.

as such i feel we are both largely rational, well educated people who both believe themselves to be in the right, and seeing as this is not an entirely subjective matter, one of us must ultimately be holding the more factual opinion, and as a thinker and a politically active adult, i'd like to make sure i'm not just barking up the wrong tree by either proving i'm right or being conclusively proved wrong.

there may be a flamey touch to my words, but i'm not telling you to shut up, as i really do respect your opinion and want to learn more, if this were not the case i'd just dismiss it and wouldnt have replied in the first place

easy brah :D

[Bongholio]

check everyone in the street "vere ah your paperz?!" style? i mean for god's sake, of course they wont

they can/will do it without you even knowing

[Terran]

And this makes you mad, why?

Does someone feel left out?:p

It just seems silly is all....whats the point of keeping track of post numbers as an indication of ones activity and contribution to the forum if someone can just spam a whole bunch of nonsense to get their numbers high....

[_liam_]

they can/will do it without you even knowing

how's that? (btw i dont mean than in a defiant, raised eyebrow way, i mean will they be bluetoothed chips that hold info within the card? haven't heard of that, sounds kinda fanciful, but technology is getting pretty cool)

and surely that would be a good thing, got nothing to hide, they aren't intruding on your space or time...what's the problem?

i will say i don't like the *sound* of it all (in fact i renewed my passport recently just to avoid all the paperwork :D ), but if you just calm. down. and consider everything that will be involved, it surely doesn't sound that bad, does it?

the only highly questionable element for me is the penalties for not updating/informing the man when you lose it.
but then tax is bull**** too. we don't live in utopia. i think the cards will help more than they hinder, ultimately.

with regards to whether one document would be easier to misappropriate than many, i guess that really is a matter of opinion, and a something where statistics will eventually reveal the truth.

but to give a very simplified analogy, who is at greater risk from credit card theft/fraud, a guy with one card or a guy with 5? there's really only one answer to that which kinda relegates it to the category of rhetoric, but nonetheless...


It just seems silly is all....whats the point of keeping track of post numbers as an indication of ones activity and contribution to the forum if someone can just spam a whole bunch of nonsense to get their numbers high....

yeah but the way i see it, when it gets to the stage where there are people with 20,000+ posts, and everyone else (newbs excluded) have a few hundred or thousand, you'll be able to discern who plays a lot of post games and who just talks & chats.

lol...surely it's no biggie anyway

[Arcades057]

It just seems silly is all....whats the point of keeping track of post numbers as an indication of ones activity and contribution to the forum if someone can just spam a whole bunch of nonsense to get their numbers high....

Hit the nail on the head, Terran. A lot of posts here seem to be hijacked by folks taking things off on a silly turn (yes, I know I'm sort of doing that now, but I don't necessaily feel that this warrants another post) by members to raise their post count. Does it make me mad? No, just a little annoyed. You have a post that you're interrested in, suddenly you have a silly conversation going on in the middle of it that you have to sift through.

Does it matter in the Grande Ol Scheme O' Things? Not in the slightest; just annoying, and it leaves questions, which I already asked: HTF do you get that many posts in such a short amount of time. Terran hit the nail on the head: they post a bunch of news stories and whatnot to get the post count up. Question answered.

Yes, MZ, I know the shoutbox is seperate, I was using that as an example.

[capncnut]

I disagree. Sometimes it's a friendly way to interact with some of the other members. People are not just spamming in there or using it to boost their post count, there are communicating. I know that's what the chatroom is for but hey, I'm not breaking any laws. If no one wants to wade through the heavy postage then stay out of that particular forum. If someone is posting too much news crap and you think it's spamming then report them. Why does it matter to people if someones post count is 5 or 5000? If it's that psychologically bothersome then let's ask the mods to see if there's some kind of post count hide tool :lol:.

It's a bunch of numbers underneath someones avatar, that's all.

[Arcades057]

... says the guy with 3k posts in four months. Seriously, there's just something odd about that. And no, I'm sure it isn't against any rules and I wouldn't report it if it were. Just stating my opinion on the matter.

And there are also PMs to consider.

[capncnut]

... says the guy with 3k posts in four months. Seriously, there's just something odd about that.

What's so odd about being actively involved in a discussion forum? After all, it is there to cater for the online chatterboxes isn't it. The posting games forum could disappear tomorrow and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest, I only post in there because there's generally an ongoing story/quiz and it can be fun to participate. As long as it doesn't harm anybody or lead to flaming then what does it matter?

A 3k post count is easy to accumulate if you spend more than an hour a day at HPotD. What can I say? I like the place, shorry.

[MinionZombie]

PMs have, again, absolutely no impact on your post count. And also, there are very, very few instances when someone says something that is completely off-topic and specific to one, single person - in those cases we say "use PM's", but we very, very rarely have to say that.

I can certainly vouch for Capn (whose count is closer to 2500 than 3000) and say that he doesn't spam the place up, the vast majority of people don't spam the place up. What is wrong with an active forum, what is wrong with active members who love to come here and chit chat with folk about a whole range of different topics?

I'm personally skeptical about some of the posting games, like word association, and I only posted in the 3-word-story thread for a short amount of time before finding it boring and moving on (like many others have done before and since).

There's a huge difference between spammers and people who just like to talk, and this incarnation of the forum has been around for a year now. With so much discussion, it's easy to post a lot and make a totally valid contribution to the boards.

Back on topic and:

Liam - I think we'd best stop talking politics with one another, it's like two brick walls talking to each other. :lol:

[Bongholio]

Since changed the topic
people get that many posts from dumb "it's my birthday" cries for attention
or the old favorite "circle jerk of backslapping clusterfc**"
IE they don't say anything much more than
"you are right"
like its something to be proud of

[bassman]

:lol:

I love how you guys are whinning and moaning about an internet message board as if it's some big, important part of your life.

[Arcades057]

:lol:

I love how you guys are whinning and moaning about an internet message board as if it's some big, important part of your life.

I love you automatically assume that since I bring it up it qualifies as a whine. :rolleyes: As I said, and I'll see it again since it went over your head: It makes no difference to me; I was just wondering how some of you have posted so much. Terran provided the answer. Back to your regularly scheduled posted news story that could've been found on the 'net.

[bassman]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

What makes you think I'm talking about you, dude? I didn't reference anyone in particular.

And I'm sure some of, if not all of the things posted on this board can be found "on the net". Isn't this technically "the net"?:confused:

Maybe not everyone visits alot of different websites. Maybe they have a select few that entertain them so they stick with them for the most part. One of those people: me. It's entertainment, man....

And I wasn't attacking you. Stop taking it that way.

[_liam_]

well, if you complain about something that doesn't really matter, it's a whine in most people's book.

[coma]

it's not that i can't see where youre coming from, i read 1984 and brave new world in school too! - but frankly it sounds like paranoid hysteria.
what do you think will happen if we have to carry ID cards, that they will check everyone in the street "vere ah your paperz?!" style? i mean for god's sake, of course they wont. police forces are stretched enough dealing with crime and now increased terrorist threats, they wont bother you unless you appear to be up to something, and if you aren't, then nothing will happen! - much the same as things already are, and have always been.

show me something non-speculative that proves they would be a bad idea...

Sure they wont bother you unless you appear to be up to something, and up to something may mean they don't like your looks. When I was a younger guy I got stopped almost every time a cop drove by. Thats walking and driving. These things start as a "crime deterrent" that ends up taking the form of harassments of undesirables (that includes thought crimes. ie; you dont think "right") and goes to surveillance to non stop surveillance where all information is connected.. You get used to it bit by bit until you are in Big Brother land and the its too late.
The gov speculates on whose undesirable until everyone is undesirable.
Speculating in the consequences of surveillance is totally valid. Should one wait until all the bad things come to pass? "I had to let it slide because, though there was ample evidence of a diminution of privacy, I couldn't speculate ON THE OBVIOUS PATH WE WERE ON" (whoops, capslock)
I mean, that ludicrous to me.
You can never trust the govt and especially the cops, to ever do the right thing on their own. EVER.

[MinionZombie]

Exactly - it's all part of the grand scheme, slippery slope. And a lot of Labour's efforts have been put to criminalising people for things that really don't need to end up with custodial sentences (we are after all, insanely close to being out of prison spaces now).

Just look at their proposal for legislation against "violent" pornography. They themselves - in their own proposal - state that there is absolutely no evidence (conclusive or otherwise) that supports their proposal - yet they continue.

The proposal seeks to make criminals out of people who like it rough - if it's consenting then who gives a sh*t. It's not everyone's cup-o-tea, but if people aren't being hurt - who cares? Each to their own. Not under Labour it seems - the proposal is purely based on taste, the views taken against 'rough porn' are typical of people who haven't bothered researching or getting to know the respective communities.

Now, I don't dig the whole rough porn thing, but if others do - why should I care? Horses for courses.

If people just keep letting everything get by without challenges then Labour can just get away with anything, and they're getting away with far too much as it is.

I most certainly would not trust all my data (and all the other fall outs of the ID card scheme et cetera) to one system under this government - heck, I wouldn't trust it under any government. They can't keep the home office running smoothly, they leave our borders totally uncontrolled and they change the law so that people can't protest within a mile (or is a km?) of Parliament - whatever happened to freedom of speech and the right to protest?

I'll shut up now, you all know by now how far reaching my disdain for this gubment is. Any good they've done has been farrrrrrrr outweighed by the bad...

[Wooley]

Seems old George Orwell was off a bit on the year, wasn't he?

The Americans on the board shouldn't be too smug about this. You know deep down that this is coming here too. Just a matter of time until we too find ourselves sadled with identification papers we must carry with us, our every bit of daily life logged into some government database to be scrutinzed lest we be a 'terrorist' or a 'drug dealer' or a 'pedophile' or some other horrible thing that must be defended against, rationalized by that old horrible saying "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear".

"If you want to imagine the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face, forever."
-1984

"Why don't you just shove a leash up my @zz?"
-Demolition Man

[Bongholio]

coming here?
it CAME from here
Please allow service sector robot replacements to proceed
and re-queue at the day labor pickup point

[Danny]

trouble for these sorta control freaks is they think the general public are sheep and idiots, and while it may seem that way with fashion and tv, people arent as dumb as they think, otherwise this thread wouldt be up here, eventually someone would go che gavera on there grouped asses.

[Bongholio]

me thinks ye are only regurgitating
Say it with "feeling"
Dost thou need a band aid dear child?
seeing as your slumped over a medic locker
a che` t shirt doth not a revolutionary make

[_liam_]

thoughts of revolution, of true socialism and rejecting the herd mentality on a fundamental level are the day dreams of a high powered primate brain left to think about things for too long. or long enough. it's the intellectual equivalent of chewing your tail.

two words; hoarding instinct. things won't change a bit until a series of evolutionary changes alter the way mankind thinks. which will be a very gradual process.

had this debate many many times with people who believe peace on earth could happen in our lifetime if the right changes were made, but they wont, and the proof that supports my argument is all around us. the problem, i find, is they usually WANT it to be true, rather than rationally arriving at such a conclusion. god knows i wish it was true, but i won't kid myself.

[Exatreides]

IGNORENCE IS STRENGTH
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
WAR IS PEACE


(Somebody had to say it)

[Terran]

IGNORENCE IS STRENGTH
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
WAR IS PEACE


(Somebody had to say it)

Or that last portion of my signature....

Realize more than anything else, power and its corollary abuse makes the world go round

[Wooley]

One day, it will be a reality, assuming a global pandemic, or economic collapse, or nuclear war, or something doesn't stop it first:

http://aclu.org/pizza/images/screen.swf

As for as the idea of revolution goes, why do you think gun control and restrictions on so called "dangerous knowledge" gets pushed so hard?

I've got my doubts as to whether or not people would revolt against such a government, since only a fraction of those who can vote in US elections bother to do so, so I won't hold my breath thinking that the great unwashed will bother to do something more than complain, at least until complaining is made illegal.

Still, it's said that only a third of the population of the US was in favor of breaking away from Britian's rule, and only a fraction of that actually fought for it. The other 2/3s of the country was split evenly with 1/3 wanting to stay part of the Empire, and a 1/3 not caring one way or the other just as long as connon balls weren't ripping through their walls.