Humans are causing global warming... 90% likely to be the case...

[Neil]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6321351.stm

What's interesting about this is I can guarentee "Joe Public" out there who don't think we are to blame, will not be swayed in the least by such articles...

Personally I'm not sure myself.... So I remain on the fence to a certain degree... But I suspect we are in some shape or form to blame, and that we (humanity) could be absolutely f***ed in 50-100yrs... Note my last footer message!

[Tricky]

Dont forget in medieval times there used to be vineyards around york,which means it was a lot warmer then than it is now.I dont doubt that pollution damages the planet,but i dont think its responsible for the changes we are seeing at the moment,and i dont think the governments attempts to turn us all into greenpeace fanatics will make a squat of difference.Britain was tropical at one point,now its not,and it was covered in glaciers at one point as well which carved all the valleys,and again now its not,i personally think its all just natural climate changes.Meddling humans again,trying to tame nature for our own selfish needs

[Terran]

Neil: What's interesting about this is I can guarentee "Joe Public" out there who don't think we are to blame, will not be swayed in the least by such articles...
Neil the term I think is Joe sixpack



,i personally think its all just natural climate changes.
Heheh
Are you Joe Public?

What do you base this opinion on? A panel of Climatologists say that theres a 90% that humans are the direct cause of global warming and that even if we stopped emitting all green house gases this instant the global temperatures would still increase 4 degrees around the planet in the next hundred years....a 4 degree increase would be devastating.....
But you just shrug it off?....based on what?

Not believing that humans are causing global warming is like not believing in evolution.....Its crazy people that refuse to listen to the overwhelming facts and studies and data....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/Instrumental_Temperature_Record.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c1/2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png
(notice the huge leap after industrialization began)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e9/Carbon_Dioxide_400kyr-2.png

[_liam_]

i think there's equal evidence for either being the case.

remember antartica used to be covered in foliage, and once the river thames froze over and they had a fun fair on the ice...

personally i think it's a natural shift that has been sped up by human activity, and it is a problem that needs to be addressed lest permanent damage be done.

[Tricky]

I really dont care that much to be honest,earth will still be here long after humans are extinct from it.What am i meant to do,stop driving my car?turn the local park into a vegetable patch?never use another electrical appliance again?build an effing great wind turbine on the roof of my house,costing me about 5 years wages?the big decisions are down to the men in charge,who are more interested in making money from whacking great "green taxes" while actually doing nothing about the environment.
Ignorance is bliss ;)

[MinionZombie]

Humans are probably causing some of the effects, no doubt, but to think that humans alone are causing the apocalypse (like many campaigners like to concentrate on, all doom and no solutions or ideas) is a bit of a stretch I feel ... it just feels to me a bit too "we're the be-all and end-all of everything" human arrogance.

It's been proven that a major problem is methane, which is far more damaging than carbon dioxide - it's the reason why New Zealand didn't meet it's quota on global warming a while back - all the farting sheep - honestly.

Also, what about all the natural things across the globe - forrest fires, volcanoes ... they're not belching out oxygen are they?

I say:

* Whack up a sh*tload of trees.
* Don't be wasteful.
* Bring on fuel cell technology.
* Bring America, India and China (among other biggies) on board...especially China.
* Increase recycling.
* COME UP WITH F*CKING SOLUTIONS!!!

I'm fed up of all the "THE END OF THE WHOLE UNIVERSE!!!" type of apocalyptic whinging a lot of greenies harp on about - come up with a friggin' solution to this apparent problem rather than just sitting there counting down, it's pathetic.

And taxation is not a solution, that's a sticky plaster (which is magnetic to a lot of money) over a cancer. The real solution to dirty cars is clean fuel - simple - work on that aspect for cryin' out loud! People simply won't give up their cars, now move on and gimme that space age fuel cell stuff I saw on Top Gear a few years ago!

Also - if proper weather records only go back to around 18-something, that's not much of a yardstick really is it? That space of time is a mere blip in the history of the planet, and a mere bottom burp in the history of mankind.

And what if these climate changes are natural or were supposed to happen? Perhaps mankind's effect is that these changes are happening sooner rather than later? Yet again - ACTUAL solutions please, not money making scams and completely unworkable crap.

Liam - yep, you know who I'm talkin' 'bout. :lol:

[Terran]

i think there's equal evidence for either being the case.

remember antartica used to be covered in foliage, and once the river thames froze over and they had a fun fair on the ice...

personally i think it's a natural shift that has been sped up by human activity, and it is a problem that needs to be addressed lest permanent damage be done.

No theres not ....
Show me this "evidence"

The overwhelming majority of experts believe that we are the cause...
And remember this is a new finding....current data....current research

The entirety of Nasa believe that we are the cause and their reports were being censored because they were so damning relating the cause to humans....most independant researchers say the same thing

Scientists around the world say the same thing....

But then one boob or extreme small minority claims that we are not the cause citing data that is harldy even relevent and its highly publicized....and a bunch of people embrace it because its more convienant



remember antartica used to be covered in foliage, and once the river thames froze over and they had a fun fair on the ice...

That says noting about global temperatures... just because its warm in one place doesnt mean its warm all over.....an global 4 degree temperature increase is insane!....




Also - if proper weather records only go back to around 18-something, that's not much of a yardstick really is it? That space of time is a mere blip in the history of the planet, and a mere bottom burp in the history of mankind.

some of The graphs I showed went back like 2000 years....theres other ways to determine global temperature from the distant distant past than records.....

[Tricky]

Seriously though,who are these so called experts?im not doubting that they are intelligent,but ive read articles by other experts & professors in the papers who's opinions go directly against what you've said there,so who is right?

[Terran]

It's been proven that a major problem is methane, which is far more damaging than carbon dioxide - it's the reason why New Zealand didn't meet it's

Ehem....mass raising of livestock is still a human cause lol....

[Neil]

I really dont care that much to be honest,earth will still be here long after humans are extinct from it.What am i meant to do,stop driving my car?turn the local park into a vegetable patch?never use another electrical appliance again?build an effing great wind turbine on the roof of my house,costing me about 5 years wages?the big decisions are down to the men in charge,who are more interested in making money from whacking great "green taxes" while actually doing nothing about the environment.
Ignorance is bliss ;)

What I'm concerned about is in my lifetime we'll begin to see serious global effects. Millions of people on the move... Disease and famine... And what concerns me even more is what my children will live to see...

The only thing I find odd is we keep getting warned of rising ocean level's, yet there's nothing to show oceans are rising!?

[Terran]

Seriously though,who are these so called experts?im not doubting that they are intelligent,but ive read articles by other experts & professors in the papers who's opinions go directly against what you've said there,so who is right?

ExxonMobil, which has come under increasing scrutiny for funding junk science views on global warming in recent years, has given no money to a global warming denier group it had previously funded.


But anyways like I said those who say it isnt happening are in a huge minority.....


In the journal Science in December 2004, Dr Naomi Oreskes published a study of the abstracts of the 928 refereed scientific articles in the ISI citation database identified with the keywords "global climate change" and published from 1993–2003. This study concluded that 75% of the 928 articles either explicitly or implicitly accepted the consensus view—the remainder of the articles covered methods or paleoclimate and did not take any stance on recent climate change.

So the other 25% did not take any stance.....

This news that was just released is serious....its taking contemporary data...
This isnt like more of the same humans are the cause stuff...its a new conclusion using better data....

There really isnt much to debate anymore....humans/human activity are the cause


Heres an article about the recent report


Global warming real, likely to get worse, scientists say
POSTED: 7:22 a.m. EST, February 2, 2007
Story Highlights• Global warming "likely man-made" and expected to "continue for centuries"
• Greenhouse gases blamed for fewer cold days, hotter nights, floods
• Temperatures predicted to rise 2 F to 11.5 F by 2100
Adjust font size:
PARIS, France (AP) -- Global warming caused by human activity is real and will continue for hundreds of years, a panel of some of the world's top climate scientists said Friday.

Officially releasing a 21-page report in Paris on the hows and the what of global warming -- though not telling the world what to do about it -- the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change gave a bleak observation of what is happening now and an even more dire prediction for the future.

"Warming of the climate system is unequivocal, as is now evident from observations of increases in global average air and ocean temperatures, widespread melting of snow and ice, and rising global mean sea level," the report said. (New report says global warming is real )

The head of the panel, Indian climatologist Rajendra Pachauri, called it a "very impressive document that goes several steps beyond previous research."

A senior U.S. government scientist, Susan Solomon, said as the report was released, "There can be no question that the increase in greenhouse gases are dominated by human activities."

The report said man-made emissions of greenhouse gases can be blamed for these problems: fewer cold days, hotter nights, killer heat waves, floods and heavy rains, devastating droughts, and an increase in hurricane and tropical storm strength (particularly in the Atlantic Ocean).

And if you think it is bad now, the harmful effects during the 21st century "would very likely be larger than those observed during the 20th century," the report said.

The panel predicted temperature rises of 1.1 to 6.4 C (2-11.5 F) by 2100. That was a wider range than in the 2001 report. However, the panel also said its best estimate was for temperature rises of 1.8 to 4 C (3.2-7.1 F).

On sea levels, the report projects rises of 7 to 23 inches (18 to 58 centimeters) by the end of the century. An additional 3.9 to 7.8 inches (10 to 20 centimeters) are possible if recent, surprising melting of polar ice sheets continues. (Watch how rising sea levels could affect San Francisco )

And the report said no matter how much civilization slows or reduces its greenhouse gas emissions, global warming and sea level rise will continue on for centuries.

"This is just not something you can stop. We're just going to have to live with it," co-author Kevin Trenberth, director of climate analysis for the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado, said in an interview. "We're creating a different planet. If you were to come up back in 100 years time, we'll have a different climate."

A colleague from the center, Gerry Miehl, warned that continued global warming could eventually lead to an "ice-free Arctic."

Scientists do worry that world leaders will take that message in the wrong way and throw up their hands, Trenberth said. That would be wrong, he said. Instead, the scientists urged leaders to reduce emissions and also adapt to a warmer world with wilder weather.

"The point here is to highlight what will happen if we don't do something and what will happen if we do something," co-author Jonathan Overpeck at University of Arizona said. "I can tell if you will decide not to do something the impacts will be much larger than if we do something."

"You make a difference on hundred of years time frame, but this is the future of the planet," Trenberth told The Associated Press. "We have to adapt to it."

Trenberth said the world is paying more attention to scientists now than in previous warnings in 1990, 1995 and 2001. "The tension is more now," he said.

The head of the U.S. delegation, White House associate science adviser Sharon Hays, called the panel's summary "a significant report. It will be valuable to policy makers."

[EvilNed]

Can't we be like a George A. Romero movie and stop thinking about the cause and start working on a solution instead?

[Tricky]

Didnt the huge majority of "experts" in the early part of the cold war,with their vast knowledge & expertise about worldy matters,claim that the hydrogen bomb would set off a chain reaction that wouldnt stop,it would wipe all life from the entire planet & completey burn off the atmosphere leaving it a scorched rock?funny how that wasnt the case...
Truth is we (humans) think we know everything there is to know about nature,but we really dont at all

[Terran]

Didnt the huge majority of "experts" in the early part of the cold war,with their vast knowledge & expertise about worldy matters,claim that the hydrogen bomb would set off a chain reaction that wouldnt stop,it would wipe all life from the entire planet & completey burn off the atmosphere leaving it a scorched rock?


No....

Or at least I cant find any information about that claim.....

I doubt if the majority of scientists thought that they would have ever detonated the bomb....

[MinionZombie]

Yeah - so find a solution, which apparently is underway - a chemical which will stop the animals farting - that is the kind of thinking and action that will help mankind.

All this "the end is nigh" type preachy "I drive a Prius" smugness ain't doing a damn thing but put off finding a real solution ... as well as piss off the normal average joe, feckin' know-it-all celebrities.

[Neil]

Yeah - so find a solution, which apparently is underway - a chemical which will stop the animals farting - that is the kind of thinking and action that will help mankind.

All this "the end is nigh" type preachy "I drive a Prius" smugness ain't doing a damn thing but put off finding a real solution ... as well as piss off the normal average joe, feckin' know-it-all celebrities.

Prius - Another example of the government's ineptitude...

They give a tax break to tempt people into buying a car:-
1) That in reality is less econimical than a good deisel
2) That is far more complicated to maintain/service
3) That in a few years time will require all its batteries chucking out and bing replace giving the owner an expensive bill, and the environment loads more polution.

Way to go!

[MinionZombie]

I know! That's the thing with the Prius, it's not a good car. A diesel Lupo will get you 75mpg. A Prius gets you around about 45mpg - and that's petrol with an electric motor. And like you say - the batteries - the sh*t those are filled with is awful and when they need replacing, what's going to happen to them?

There's so much gubment guff that just panders to average joe's panicky need to ease their conscience, when in reality, Britain hasn't done much on the grand scheme - once again, it's the big contenders - America, India and especially China.

Also - the Prius is just a crap car ... and the celebs that say "oh I drive a Prius" with that closed-eyes/light voiced smugness are just hypocritical wankers - buy yourself a new forest, shove up a shedload of trees instead, because their 8 other cars are GTO's and Mustangs and all sorts...and that's just the cars (including that vulgar piece of junk the Hummer).

[_liam_]

No theres not ....
Show me this "evidence"


no need for the tone young man

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age

evidence climate can change drastically without the knock on effects of industry.

i'm not saying industry isnt to blame! i just thing the world is getting warmer anyway, but couple with the greenhouse effect, it may get too warm.

[Danny]

i think, wether we are the cause or not, saving energy and giving up fossil fuels can certainly be a good thing either way, though as for america, and this isnt an anti america thing, america is a pretty damn extravagent country, cus in point las vegas, could you tell vegas to "turn it dwn to 30" and stop using SUV's, not saying there bad, it just wouldnt happen.
China are just trying to get into the coal biz, so from there point of view there looking at a lucrative few years, even though there probably gonna have the same atmopshere as london in the 1800's:dead:
even us in the united kingdom, be it ireland scotland england or wales people individually may be doing great things on a small scale, what with people building eco homes and that, cus we aint known for bringing out the latest technology or something were still connected to our rural routes somewhat, which means buisness's are still yearning to make a huge bank like american or chinese buisness'.

case in point building "a casino the size of two football pitches in manchester"....who the hell thinks that is a good idea?:rolleyes:

[Terran]

no need for the tone young man

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age

evidence climate can change drastically without the knock on effects of industry.

i'm not saying industry isnt to blame! i just thing the world is getting warmer anyway, but couple with the greenhouse effect, it may get too warm.

Well duh there are climate changes....but look at the time scale of the ice ages


the world has seen cycles of glaciation with ice sheets advancing and retreating on 40,000- and 100,000-year time scales. The last glacial period ended about ten thousand years ago.....


And this report estimates a 2.5 to 10.4 degrees by the year 2100.....



It's been proven that a major problem is methane, which is far more damaging than carbon dioxide - it's the reason why New Zealand didn't meet it's quota on global warming a while back - all the farting sheep - honestly.


Oh I looked into it and Methane breaks down into CO2 via chemical reactions in the atmosphere in about 10 years....so its not really the Methane thats bad....its the CO2 that it turns into....CO2 lifetime in the atmosphere can range from 50-200 years.....

[axlish]

Unfortunately, Humans were not there to record the ice age. Are we so certain that these "ages" took millennia to develop, or did they engulf the earth with a span of a few centuries?

[Terran]

Unfortunately, Humans were not there to record the ice age. Are we so certain that these "ages" took millennia to develop, or did they engulf the earth with a span of a few centuries?


Heheh do you think people just make up the time scale of these past events....

Ill list some of the ways we discover these things off the top of my head(added some stuff as I forget some finer details)...theres probally some other ways Im forgetting but I didnt want to search long....

So you wonder how we know about past climate before humans were around to measure it.....?


The geological record is one way as glaciers move, the ice carves mountain valleys, and even stratches the bedrock....
So things like foreign rocks and large boulders unearthed or moved glacial debris gives evidence of the past several million years.


Ice cores are extremely useful and gives detailed information....but they only give us information of approximately the last 200,000 years...

When water freezes it trapp bubbles of air inside the ice.
This is the best part as it relates to global warming comparisions....
The ratio of oxygen isotopes in this air gives us an indication of the average air temperature at the time the bubble was trapped in ice.
The super awsome part is these bubbles also trap atmospheric greenhouse gases that can be measured.


Fossil plants and the distribution of pollen show that vegetation has changed, consistent with changing climate. Pollen from plants, buried in shallow deposits of earth, indicate the distribution of vegetation since the last glaciation, about 20,000 years ago.
Ancient Plant Distribution describes how vegetation has changed as the ice retreated.


Tree rings provide a record of the weather back 3,000 years in some cases, and hundreds of years in many areas. See Tree Rings, a Study of Climate Change.

We can determine the past climate of the Earth by mapping the distribution of ancient coals, desert deposits, tropical soils, salt deposits, glacial material, as well as the distribution of plants and animals that are sensitive to climate, such as alligators, palm trees & mangrove swamps.

The Paleogeographic Method is whats used for really old stuff......



So the answer is yes we are pretty certain on the timetable of these older events....

[axlish]

I'm not talking about how long the "age" lasted, but how long it took for the "age" to engulf the earth. There is a difference. Could this rapid change be consistent with prior "ages" coming to be?

When we look at a timeline of the ages, there is simple black line to separate them. I am curious about the details of that black line.

[Terran]

I'm not talking about how long the "age" lasted, but how long it took for the "age" to engulf the earth. There is a difference. Could this rapid change be consistent with prior "ages" coming to be?

When we look at a timeline of the ages, there is simple black line to separate them. I am curious about the details of that black line.

As it relates to Ice ages....we can tell both...how long it took them to come to be...and how long it took them to go away....by the same techniques I mentioned before....


I dont know what black line your referring to....so *shrugs*

[kortick]

it is generaly agreed upon
that the climate change is part
of a natural cycle
in which the magnetic poles shift

it is proven that antartica was one tropical
they found a woolly mammoth with fresh greens in its mouth
frozen solid
it was flash frozen

man may have hastened this with fossil fuels
but is in no way the cause of it

the mayan calender ends on 2012

some say that is the time when
civilization as we know it will change

what type of change?
find a mayan and ask him...

[_liam_]

im seriously fckin drunk, but yeh, innit.

theres no way of provin . flash frozen mammoth with tropical spinach or whatever in its mouth - exactly.

in 15 years we'll still be bullsh!ttin on this forum, nothin will be THAT different.
just you wait

[Danny]

aye, since 1999 every years been the final year of some calendar or another.:rolleyes:

[axlish]

As it relates to Ice ages....we can tell both...how long it took them to come to be...and how long it took them to go away....by the same techniques I mentioned before....


I dont know what black line your referring to....so *shrugs*

The last ice age ended 11,600 years ago (roughly). When did it begin to end? How long did it take? Did it take a millinia or did it take a nanosecond? I cannot find jack on this topic. People talk about the beginning and end of such ages, drawing a "black line" at the end and the beginning, but not much discussion goes into the waxing and waning of said ages.

I realize that you thought me ignorant after reading my first post, but you should have a clear understanding of what I mean now. The reason I ask this is because humans are alarmed at the rate of global warming. Are we absolutely certain that these atmospheric changes don't happen within a few decades?

[Marie]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6321351.stm

What's interesting about this is I can guarentee "Joe Public" out there who don't think we are to blame, will not be swayed in the least by such articles[/I]

I don't know if I'm in the won't be swayed group, probably, because there is so much evidence to to contrary and you have to admit one thing, that the scientists involved mostly live off of government fundng for research.

This smells too much like a play for headlines and a resulting increase in the flow of my tax dollars to these guys to form "Think tanks" to tell me it's my car and air conditioning making the sun burn hotter.

M_

[Tricky]

Maybe we're all wrong and the sun is dying!could be heating up as it grows into a white dwarf

[LoSTBoY]

With the way kids are today, I'm not that bothered that they will have to put up with this when we are gone.

/old man :shifty:

[Neil]

With the way kids are today, I'm not that bothered that they will have to put up with this when we are gone.

/old man :shifty:

From someone who doesn't have any kids I suspect? :rolleyes:

[MinionZombie]

Have you seen in the papers it's always "the hottest ever" or "the coldest ever" ... once I saw on one page it was the hottest month ever, then I turned the page and someone else was saying it was the coldest month ever - seriously. :rolleyes:

There was a funny bit on Mock the Week about 3 weeks ago, and with all this apparent global warming stuff, Britain will get colder, to which they responded "only bloody Britain could get colder with global warming" :lol: ... to be honest I haven't really noticed much change, the winter has been a tad mild this time around, but while yesterday was quite sunny, today is foggy, cold and gray.

[axlish]

I hear you MZ. I just survived the most severe hurricane season ever according to pre-season predicitons! (zero hurricanes LOL)

[Terran]

Maybe we're all wrong and the sun is dying!could be heating up as it grows into a white dwarf

Its going to turn into a red giant first......thatll be cool....but thats not like for a billion years or something....I cant remember...at least a million

[thxleo]

Its going to turn into a red giant first......thatll be cool....but thats not like for a billion years or something....I cant remember...at least a million


I think Terran is in dire need of some pussy. Pardon my French.

[MinionZombie]

Wasn't it suggested a while back by some group of scientists that the sun was burning brighter now than it used to - surely adding to this whole "global warming" panic.

Mankind, en mass, can really act like a bunch of headless chickens, eh? SOLUTIONS please, not panicky doom-saying and convenient methods of raping more cash out of people's pockets.

[Danny]

i dont get it, really i dont, fossil fuel is polluting and its gonna run out, so switiching to something else (im waiting for a water power flying car:cool: , that would totally be worth my left foot!) weve had tornadoes in london, now i cant remember that happening before, so somethings changing, trouble is one group of scientists says in 50 years engaldn will be a desert (think mad max with west country accents....like a dusty lord of the rings!:lol: ) OR its gonna be a frozen wasteland.

bit of a stretch in between them-oh **** that'll get alive man started!:p

[_liam_]

I think Terran is in dire need of some pussy. Pardon my French.

he does sculpting & has that smouldering cynic thing goin on. birds dig that, he probably has to check under his bed for them before he goes to sleep

[Danny]

and probably has a goatee and a bere':D

[kortick]

i found out what is causing global warming

on coast to coast there is a caller named JC
who is a "10 star general for the lord"
and he says that the souls in hell at the center of the earth
are heating up the planet

so many sinners are in hell
that it is raising the temperature of the planet

so at least we know why it is happening now

thanks JC


and as a side note
terran is a very complex and intelligent young man
a bit pessimistic at times yes
but always interesting to chat with

[Terran]

he does sculpting & has that smouldering cynic thing goin on. birds dig that, he probably has to check under his bed for them before he goes to sleep

They just dont dig the rampant alcoholism.....
*shrugs*

[mista_mo]

Global warming eh? meh. I think teh book was called State of fear. Read it sometime, it's awesome, and shows alot of counter arguements to global warming.

I personally think it's a load, and that this is a natural climate change that God set in motion eons ago so earth will be a great place to live for us.

and yes, I know eh, I said God created us and the Earth.

[Danny]

why would a god change the world to "make it better for us to live?", when climate change could wipe out more species than we ourselves have done over the years?

not argueing here its a genuine question for a person of faith.

and on the subject of species i gotta ask , and remember im 100% not taking the piss this is genuine interest from a theological point of view, whats your opinion on there being no dinosaurs in the bible?

[mista_mo]

It's okay, I don't mind. To be fair, we don't know. No one does, i've asked teh question myself so many times, and yet i still haven't been able to find an answer. Personally, I don't really care....I mean, i suppose you could relate dinosaurs to the earth outside the garden of eden or something, but i truly don't know. I would like to know what happened, but I don't Meh. The bible is what I try to base my life upon, as well as the teachings of christ. Thats the focus, and thats what the entire bible sums up too- the arrival of christ.

with teh second question, I take my answer in part, from teh bible. I can't remember the exact passage or line, but basically, God created animals, then he created man. We are in a position of superioity over animals, and we are the "ones in charge" so to speak (sorry it's 3:30 am here and i'm very tired, I'll answer better later on when I can think allright) and we are God's ultimate creation. This doesn't mean we are too mistreat them, but we are to watch over them and protect them. God wants a comfortable place for everything, man and beast, to live. It may end up killing so many, but it brings about new life.

I don't reason that having teh deaths of animals is right (i'm incredibly opposed to the idea actually) But the fact is we don't know. God does, but we don't. I view evolution and otehr things (not science in general) to be mans attempt to distance ourselves away from God. I don't buy into evolution or global warming, not because of my religious beliefs (even as a non christian i thought evolution was a crock) but because of the simple fact that alot of it doesn't make sense to me at all. We're doign evolution in bio this semester, so i hope to gain better knowledge on it.

altho, this isn't the topic for such a discussion, tho, PM me if you wanna ask more. I just don't wanna start something on here and get off track. Sorry for the spelling but I've really gotta go to sleep. PM me sometime with more questions.

[Danny]

too many questions, id say all my beliefs are scientifically based so i just dont "get" religion, it boggles my mind ,no offence, i mean if it makes your life good, great life would be boring if we were all the same right?:)

[DjfunkmasterG]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6321351.stm

What's interesting about this is I can guarentee "Joe Public" out there who don't think we are to blame, will not be swayed in the least by such articles...

Personally I'm not sure myself.... So I remain on the fence to a certain degree... But I suspect we are in some shape or form to blame, and that we (humanity) could be absolutely f***ed in 50-100yrs... Note my last footer message!


Well considering it has been single digit cold in Maryland USA the last two weeks it kind of throws the whole global warming thing out thw window, however, I agree there is some form of global warming and yes we are responsible.

*We do not know everything there is to know about Mother Nature.
*We continue to rely on fossil fuels which we know contribute to global warming.
*When the USA enacted global warming measures for companies to follow during Clinton's presidency they were pulled back by the Bush administration, so if our own elected leaders don't give a f**k how do you think the american public is going to respond? "If they don't care why should we?" thats the thinking around these parts.
*China, and the USA contribute the most pollution into the environment. I am not sure who is at the top of the list at the moment though.

How do we stop it? Unless you change your ways you can't stop it, and to be honest based on the amount of damage already done... it will just have to run it's course.

One of the biggest excuses to not do anything about global warming I keep hearing, and I am even guilty of saying it myself... "Thats 50-100 years from now. Hell I won't be alive." So if we continue to not care, then the subject is a moot point. It is a threat, but nothing can be done unless you change the habits of 6 Billion + people. However, they say all you have to do is start with one and it will spread from there.

[Tricky]

How exactly do they propose to stop china pumping out the pollution though?they are a rapidly developing nation who arent going to just stop because we say they should.Sanctions and threats will only lead to war,and china,being a nuclear power,probably wouldnt just bite the pillow and take it...

[coma]

Well considering it has been single digit cold in Maryland USA the last two weeks it kind of throws the whole global warming thing out thw window, however, I agree there is some form of global warming and yes we are responsible.

.
Global Warming doesnt mean hotter
It means upredictable weather patterns

If the earth gets slightly hotter, glaciers melt, ocean streams change, such as gulf stream, casuing more unpredictable and harsher weather.
Thats it in a nutshell.
It DOES NOT mean minnesota becomes Florida.
Its basic chemistry. If you introduce, Co2, for example, into a formula where it exists in a smaller ratio, it changes the outcome. You add a ton of salt i a glass of milk it will taste awful. IF you introduce water into your gas tank, your car wont start.

IF GOD is responsible for everything, he is responsible for 7/11 being out of Skittles and he is also responsible for someone treating their Girlfriend like crap and the fact that you took a dump 2 times today instead of 3 or whatever. Saying everthing is predetermined pretty much removes all responsibilty for anything and any quest for knowledge.

[MikePizzoff]

Some extremely simple things that could be done that would change the world if everyone just did them:

-Recycle
-Don't farking litter
-Don't drive everywhere. You have legs. Metropolitan areas (usually) have extensive public transportation.
-Don't waste paper. Less paper used = less tree's cut down.

[MinionZombie]

And:

*Don't waste in general.
*Don't leave your TV on stand-by.
*Get energy-saving light-bulbs, and only use them when necessary.
*Only boil as much water as you need.
*Buy a car with proper MPG - that's something America in particular needs to seriously work on (The Hummer - 1mpg when you press on?! Come on people!)
*Whack up a SHEDLOAD of trees, there's a reason why Brazil is the "lungs of the world"...
*Gimme that space age fuel cell technology already - never refuelling, only water comes out? SWEET!
*Hurry up and invent that chemical that stops livestock from farting out insane amounts of methane into the atmosphere (see New Zealand etc)
*Try and figure out how to seriously prevent and quickly put out forrest fires.

Just some ideas...:rockbrow:

[mista_mo]

Funny thing about trees being the largest producer of oxygen...

It's actually phitoplankton that give us much of our oxygen...around 80% while trees do about 20%. We need more oceans and phitoplankton..


Yea, I agree hellsing, we each have our own beliefs, and we should try and respect em. I just like sticking up for mine now.

[Terran]

Funny thing about trees being the largest producer of oxygen...

It's actually phitoplankton that give us much of our oxygen...around 80% while trees do about 20%. We need more oceans and phitoplankton..


Yea, I agree hellsing, we each have our own beliefs, and we should try and respect em. I just like sticking up for mine now.

Its not just about Oxygen production when it comes to tree life... its Carbon Fixation....where CO2 is converted into Organic matter....like trees and plants...otherwise all that CO2 is in the atmosphere....the diatoms may produce more oxygen....but global warming has never been about running out of oxygen

But yeah the ocean....
We are also experiencing increasing Dead Zones


Dead zones are hypoxic (low-oxygen) areas in the world's oceans, the observed incidences of which have been increasing since oceanographers began noting them in the 1970s. The term could as well apply to the identical phenomenon in large lakes. In March 2004, when the recently-established UN Environment Programme published its first Global Environment Outlook Year Book (GEO Year Book 2003) it reported 146 dead zones in the world oceans where marine life could not be supported due to depleted oxygen levels. Some of these were as small as a square kilometer, but the largest dead zone covered 70,000 square kilometers.

[Danny]

must...resist urge...to make....stephen king...joke....