UK FOLK! - against ID Cards?

[MinionZombie]

I know I am, so I signed the petition against them here:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/IDcards/ (closes on the 15th February, so chop chop chaps!)

I don't wanna get into some big old fight about it, but just in case those against these retarded proposals didn't know about the petition against them, well now you do. It currently has around 19,000 signatures thus far, so pass it around to like-minded folk.

To Tricky specifically - if you haven't heard, the Conservatives officially stated if they're elected they'll shaft the ID Cards and are currently drawing up plans and such to deal with scrapping this garbage.

[Andy]

I know I am, so I signed the petition against them here:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/IDcards/ (closes on the 15th February, so chop chop chaps!)

I don't wanna get into some big old fight about it, but just in case those against these retarded proposals didn't know about the petition against them, well now you do. It currently has around 19,000 signatures thus far, so pass it around to like-minded folk.

To Tricky specifically - if you haven't heard, the Conservatives officially stated if they're elected they'll shaft the ID Cards and are currently drawing up plans and such to deal with scrapping this garbage.
just signed it

VOTE CONSERVATIVE!

[MinionZombie]

just signed it

VOTE CONSERVATIVE!
AMERI...er...CONSERVATIVE! F*CK YEAH!

[Tricky]

God damn i couldnt type my details in fast enough,lets have that stupid gestapo money draining idea gone eh? :D

[MinionZombie]

Spread the good word, chap. :)

hehe, I had such a grin when I scrolled down and saw your name already on here viewing the thread. :D

[Tricky]

I put the petition against car tracking devices on my myspace bulletin a few weeks ago and within days it was being spread via everyone else on there in bulletins!so il be doing the same with this one & hopefully it will get a similar response!:D

[capncnut]

MZ me boy, signed, sealed, delivered and the link passed on to another 10-12 people.


VOTE CONSERVATIVE!

Always have done, always will. ;)

[coma]

just signed it

VOTE CONSERVATIVE!
I always find that odd. Voting Conservative for Freedom. I dont know about the nuances of British politcal ideology, but in the US voting conservative means
No social programs
vast economic inequality
no work safety
extensive personal Surveillence
Endless war
Jesus in every area of life imposed.
That is not what it's totally supposed to be , but thats what it ends up being.
When Americans look for Conservatives to "save America" we end up with a stuutering retard.

[MinionZombie]

I think the thing with American politics is that there's just two parties, and that is the inherent problem - one is too right wing, the other is too left wing. So it's all a bit dodgy, at least that's how I see it.

The Conservatives have (in one form or another - they used to be called The Tories, hence their nickname) been around since the 18th Century and have been in power for a long time (when you add all their terms together). Winston Churchill, one of the greatest leaders in the world - the man who brought Britain through World War 2 for cryin' out loud - was a Conservative (now Blair can't even handle just Iraq with all this technology and American allies from the beginning!)

Basically, as the Conservative party have been around for so long, they've seen this country grow over a long period of time.

By comparison, the current gubment - the Labour Party, only came into being in the 20th Century ... two thirds of which they weren't in power for (and famously were out of power for 18 years straight from 1979 to 1997).

Some segments of the Conservative Party (more likely the older fartier types, the old boys) are more the classic old bastards completely out-of-touch with anything below the lower end of the upper class, however they're dying out and are out of touch. These are the people who helped keep the glass ceiling in existence for women in business, but that's slowly eroding as these old farts die out - and as a result their old foosty politics are dying out).

The Conservatives basically stand for giving responsibility and personal power back to the individual, whereas Labour - traditionally being a bunch of socialists at heart - want to gain as much power and control as possible, they love it, they can't get enough power and enough money and enough control - so they bring in measures which seek to stomp down the public and give them yet more power ... but they're too stupid to realise that tactic doesn't work.

A working Britain is a country whose citizens are given the ability to achieve for themselves, to gain self respect through doing, not mooching. A good government should provide for the truly needy, but ultimately provide the means for everyone to do the best that they can - and that is ultimately what the Conservative Party represents, and like I said before, the old school "old boy" ignorance - I feel - is wearing off and dying out, because those who hold those views are dying out themselves.

In the UK it is generally kept that religion is separate from state as much as possible, in America it appears as if that ideal has gotten completely lost with the Republican Party, but then again in America there seems to be more 'rampant' religion and therefore potentially dangerous religion (and I don't just mean bombing style danger).

I'm not saying the Conservatives are golden and have done no wrong - they have, but who wouldn't do some stuff wrong? The point is that Labour have done inexplicable damage.

It's funny, for the past 10 to 15 years it's been people sucking air through their teeth when the Conservatives are mentioned, this is swinging quite quickly over to said air being sucked through said teeth at the mention of Labour ... methinks Blair's (and that twat Brown's) legacy will certainly go down in political history as - over the piece - a disaster on many levels.

[coma]

I think the thing with American politics is that there's just two parties, and that is the inherent problem - one is too right wing, the other is too left wing. So it's all a bit dodgy, at least that's how I see it.

The Conservatives have (in one form or another - they used to be called The Tories, hence their nickname) been around since the 18th Century and have been in power for a long time (when you add all their terms together). Winston Churchill, one of the greatest leaders in the world - the man who brought Britain through World War 2 for cryin' out loud - was a Conservative (now Blair can't even handle just Iraq with all this technology and American allies from the beginning!)

The Democrat Party in recent years have not been Particularly liberal, like Clintons Welfare reform, a conservative idea, Recently they have bonded more with their base, but only after many losses from being REpublican lite. Conservative commentators label them "far left" but their has been no left wing party in the US for almost 30 years until recently. They return to their roots and win big. Originally there was a big ultra conservative wing of the dem pary who switched to GOP after Reagan.

There was one socialist in US gov and he swirched to democrat. For many years it was one party seperated by a name only.

Only in the last year or two do we have an actual choice.

I dont know where people get the dem (Not recently) are far left. ONly conservative commentators say that and even Rush admits it is not even close to true. American Political life starts at left of center and swings to Far Right/Authoritarian. There are no elected Leftists, though there are many Americans who follow that ideology

FDR, who was a staunch liberal (not a lefty, though) led the US to Victory as well, as well as saving us from a probable Fascist revolution in the depression with the NEw Deal/

Thanks for the lengthy post, I have better understanding now, though I feel if you get you way you may end up being very disappointed, like GOP supporters are now.

[kortick]

they are planning on having national
ID cards here in America too


I am going to demand no such thing

I want a bar code tattooed across my forehead
and you should demand one too

lets all become numbers

[Danny]

you know there'd be a rush for "thx-1138":lol:

[Terran]

Whose going to be 55378008?

[Danny]

nd of course lou would get 666 (or 616 if you wanna get picky) since apparently he IS the devil:cool:

[HLS]

They are trying to get universal ID's here in the USA. Instead of a drivers licence from the state you live in they want drivers licence id's tied to the federal government and homeland security. There is a lot of hoopla on this. It is called the Real Act of 2005.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act_of_2005

http://www.realnightmare.org/

[Danny]

next up an ear tag allowing satelites to track your location and movements any time of the day:rolleyes:

*door busts open behind him, pc is shot to **** by a swat team and a man in black chloraphormes him and dargs him away...."you didnt see, ANYTHING!"...computer taken away, room cleaned and door shut as black van pulls away in the night*

[HLS]

next up an ear tag allowing satelites to track your location and movements any time of the day:rolleyes:

*door busts open behind him, pc is shot to **** by a swat team and a man in black chloraphormes him and dargs him away...."you didnt see, ANYTHING!"...computer taken away, room cleaned and door shut as black van pulls away in the night*


I know. I can see that happening. With an id card tied to the federal government they can probably track everything you do, know where you bank, where you shop, what you buy and how often. pretty soon there will be a national library card so they can track to see if your reading books about how to build a bomb or what ever:bored:

[Terran]

I know. I can see that happening. With an id card tied to the federal government they can probably track everything you do, know where you bank, where you shop, what you buy and how often. pretty soon there will be a national library card so they can track to see if your reading books about how to build a bomb or what ever:bored:

All you would have to do is check out a chemistry book....

[_liam_]

BOLLOCKS to the conservatives. sure labour did wrong, but what the hell happened to

*our mining industries
*our public transport system
*the guys who died for the FALKLANDS (i mean WTF, iraq?! american people, wikipedia; the falklands war and tell me how worthless you think that was)

their policies have NOT changed that much since then.
if you are fooled by cameron's slime then you are as dumb as the people who were fooled by blair's similarly orchestrated PR sheen in '97. ever see that episode of time trumpet where they edit a speech by cameron and a speech by blair together and they are almost exactly the same?

now the thatcherite policies were not that long ago, but bringing up bloody churchill as a good reason to vote tory?! jesus christ man, that was over half a century ago...

fair play churchill got us through world war 2 (not without a LOT of help from the americans and the russians though), but guess what;

HE HAD STRIKING MINERS SHOT.

woohoo. what a hero.

frankly that sort of shenanigans makes ID cards seem rather tame (and guess what; they had ID cards under churchill, even after the war was over)

bring back the liberal democrats i say, the great war was a long time ago.

dont be so quick to support the tories just because labour are a sack of turds.

need i remind you that dodgy politicians wait for people to get desperate before leaping onto their wounds for a good suck?

i fear partially justified hatred masquerading as rationalised political viewpoint (yeah, as usual)

*loosens tie*
heh...anyway...:clown:

[Tricky]

The people of the falklands wanted to be british though,not argentinian,they are proud of who they are,more so than most people who live in britain itself!That war not only ensured the freedom of the falklanders,but it also showed the world that britain was still not a pushover at a crucial time in the cold war.
It wasnt thatcher who ruined the mining industry anyway,the unions had to be brought back under control and thats what she did,the real man behind wrecking mining was that gimp arthur scargill!Anyway since labour have been in power the unions are getting bolshy again,notice the continuous striking across all services including public transport,they need to be brought back down again before all the rioting and discontent comes back...
The lib dems are too wet and left to be a government,i hope they never get into power during my lifetime.That leaves me with the BNP and the conservatives,now i do agree with some of what the BNP say as a party,but im not into the racist side of their policies so i wouldnt vote for them.That leaves me with the conservatives who arent perfect by any means but the closest im going to get in this current political climate.

Back to the point though,this ID card system is pure gestapo,once everyones entire life and habits are on this database,what will they do with the information?will they start rounding up political opponents & opposition sympathisers and incarcerating them?will they sell our details onto other companies to bring in revenue?will you have to answer to the government about what you are buying & how much of your own money you spend?(i heard that once this comes in you will have to swipe your card every time you make a purchase for ANYTHING) :mad:

[MinionZombie]

Basically, it's information the government doesn't need, but simply wants to - once again - gain more power for themselves, as they're completely drunk with power.

And if you think the likes of John "two Jags" Prescott are in it "for the working man" then you're sorely mistaken, do any of those wankers earning large sums per year have anything in common with the "working man" they claim to represent? Nope, Labour are weak and they're a shining example of "absolute power corrupts absolutely".

[_liam_]

nah i hate labour, but i hate the tories even more...

but the tories have backed ID cards in the past... i just think theyre exactly the same as they always were but they do a bit of populist pandering to dupe people who are fed up with labour.

all this crowing they do over the cash for honours thing kind of annoys me too, i got a newspaper clipping a couple years back detailing a £390,000 donation to the tories courtesy of the freemasons. most tories are masons, but of course that's a coincidence ;)

and lol tricky, what BNP policies do you agree with? the mandatory military service or the legal requirement to have an assault rifle under your bed? :lol:

[Tricky]

The military service wouldnt be a bad thing in kicking the attitude out of the "chav" generation to be honest,but no what i agree on is the BNP's stance on immigration and europe (i.e. keeping Britain out of it)
As i say i wouldnt vote for them though because of the racism,all i can hope is that the conservatives take those policies on board and add them to their manifesto :)

[coma]

The people of the falklands wanted to be british though,not argentinian,they are proud of who they are,more so than most people who live in britain itself!That war not only ensured the freedom of the falklanders,but it also showed the world that britain was still not a pushover at a crucial time in the cold war.
Actually, it looked like Thatcher was trying to get tough over a tiny piece of colonial property. It didnt make Britan look tough, it made Thatcher look like she was TRYING to look tough by fighting a militarily insignificant enemy.
Like the US in Grenada.
So, no offense, it seemed like they were trying to recapture a past imperial glory and seemed like a ploy.

[MinionZombie]

Judging by the Conservatives website (yes, I've looked, stop gawking at me Liam :D), the issue of immigration and especially border control is a key issue, instead of ID cards (which won't stop anything Labour says it will) they say they'd instead use some of that money saved from not having ID cards to put border police back in place - because it's just simply what needs to be done, some things can't be automated - border control, the police and so on - you need PEOPLE, active resources - not a friggin' computer, to keep those situations in check.

[DjfunkmasterG]

VOTE CONSERVATIVE!

As long as you keep that conservative vote in the UK. Everytime we vote conservative over here int he USA look at the **** we get into. We are a country that needs to vote liberal, it is hard pressed fact. The conservative line of thinking doesn't match the standards americans demand anymore.

[MinionZombie]

No worries, like I was explaining to Coma, Conservatives here and Conservatives there seem very different species. In the UK we have a more "centre-left" or "centre-right" approach to things ... although the supposed centre-left (Labour) seem more like dictators as more time passes by as they continue to not actually stand for "the working man" like they claim they do (all the while driving around in two Jaguars and holidaying with the BeeGees)...:rolleyes:

[Chaos]

We have National I.D. Cards too. They were earmarked by the Bush administration and tacked on to either the Patriot Act or the Domestic Security Enhancements Act that were rubberstamped and pushed through the republican controlled congress, post 9/11. These two bills give the executive branch essentially more power than the Enabling Act gave to Hitler. Virginians, Americans, you better start worrying. We're facing tyranny.

As for the whole republican vs. democrat thing, I don't buy into it. The whole right vs. left paradigm is the biggest joke to ever be pulled on the American people. The same people that manage Bush, also manage the Clintons too. The republican and democrat parties have been bought and paid for by the private central banking elite that run the federal reserve. Our elections have been a fraud for quite some time. The faces change but the names never seem to. We rebelled against the idea of a monarchy, only to fall prey to Clinton and Bush dynasties. If I go the rest of my life without seeing another Bush or Clinton in office or a Cheney or a Kissinger as an advisor or a cabinet member, it will be too soon for me.

This Republic's government has abandoned us and treats the people as if we're the enemy. Opening our mail, checking our library records, wiretapping our phone calls, passing the Military commissions act that gives the executive branch the power to declare CITIZENS of the UNITED STATES enemy combatants if desired and denied the writ of Habeas Corpus.

Our government no longer listens to the people. 85% of us want our troops out of Iraq, yet our government not only ignores this, but openly discusses the possibility of escalating the troop number by 25,000 and are dangerously close to expanding the war to Iran, as well.

Now they want to keep us under lock and key too? Have you tried to get a passport lately? Biometric thumb scanning, keeping the people under constant surveillance with cameras and any other big brother device that you can think of, implementing national i.d. cards without any non-governmental oversight. Now they're talking about "free speech zones" too?

The founding fathers rebelled against the crown for less.

Americans, you need to worry less about socialistic government entitlements, like social security and medicaid and all that other crap that makes you rely on the government more than is healthy, and you should worry more about preserving the Bill of Rights for yourselves and your family.

What we're seeing in Washington D.C. and in London are two out-of-control crime enterprises that blow up buildings and tubes and murder their own people to serve their own corrupt agendas. If you still think it was bin Laden that hit us on 9/11, six years after the fact, and not al-C.I.A.da, then you deserve the oppression and tyranny you get.

The only thing that will get us out of this deep crap we're in is unity. We need every ultra left-wing commie, ultra right-wing super-patriot, federal income tax hating, gun-toting (not the phony NRA either), freedom loving, private property, anti-forced vaccination, Libertarian, Constitutionalist, Green Party, paleo-conservative, neo-liberal to band together (even if the one thing we agree on is our hatred of the established power elite and their corrupt boot-licking henchmen) and support Ron Paul for president.

[DjfunkmasterG]

No way I would vote another republican into the white house. If the Ron Paul you are referring to is the same Ron Paul whom is a Texas congressman... Hell no. Democrat or libertarian only. Maybe even an independent, but no way will a republican ever get my vote.

[Andy]

can we just agree that US politics and UK politics are very different subjects?

Here in the uk, the conservatives are the lesser of two evils, and its sour old people annoyed by thatcher who have kept tony blair in power for all this time.

I mean no offense _liam_, but listen to yourself... your saying screw the conservatives becuase of something a completely different generation of politicians did 20 years ago. thats whats keeping tony blair in power and thats what is keeping labour screwing you over now.

[MinionZombie]

Perzactly, and also, Thatcher's cabinet started eating themselves up and it all started coming apart at the end of the 1980s when they kicked her out (if that hadn't happened, who knows, perhaps Saddam Hussein would have been ousted in the first Gulf War).

What Thatcher had was determination and gumption, she got on with sh*t and didn't worry about what Tabloid readers would think, nor what Mondeo Man thought (or the Mondeo Man equivalent back in the 1980s ... Vauxhall Cavalier man?)

Anyway, Blair is a limp dish cloth, Thatcher - figuratively speaking - had balls. And damn straight Andy, the British nation is far too obsessed with constantly looking back - yes we need to look back, but the amount of "ooh Thatcher" stuff that goes on is far beyond the necessary amount, it's gotten to the point where people forget about Blair & Co messing everything up - also, 'funny' that it's probably partly down to Blair & Co for continuing that trend. All he ever says is about what the previous government did wrong - WELL WHAT THE FUDGE HAVE HIS LOT DONE TO RECTIFY IT?!

Labour are all about mud slinging, more than the average party should ever be entitled to (and currently is bothered with), Labour take it to a whole new level and just whinge about "the previous government" ... they weren't perfect by any means, but they got sh*t done regardless, at least before Major came along and bored the pants off everyone.

People moan about Blair & Co, but if you want shot of it, you MUST vote for the only party capable of ousting them (and this is historically proven time and again throughout the 20th Century - two thirds of which Labour weren't in power for, I might add) - which party is that? The Conservative Party, the Libs haven't a hope in hell and haven't been in power for what, a friggin' century?! And they're anything but Liberal - if they truly were, the gay one would have been picked as leader, not one of the living dead...besides, the Liberals are a bunch of posers who haven't been charged with actually governing the country, so they just sit there and dream away in their fantasy "what if" world where everything works - well sorry, but tough sh*t has to be dealt with - and historically the Conservatives have been the only party to deal with said tough sh*t ... could you imagine a Labour government dealing with World War 2? ... nope, don't think so.

Like I've said before, I'm not saying the Conservatives are amazing and spotless, they're not - but who the f*ck is - lesser of two evils as well as most effective of the bunch.

Labour have had some good ideas, like the NHS ... but what did they do with that? F*cked it right up the backside, that's what - even that daft bint in charge of it said we're better off not going to hospital as we'll come out sicker than when we went in - Americans reading this, SHE REALLY DID SAY THAT - and I can believe it to, I've seen it happen, go in for a fall and come out dead after several infections, and it was heart breaking to see. :(

Labour couldn't manage their way out of a paper bag filled with large, gaping holes looking out over golden fields of absolute power. :rolleyes: