hoyl crap (minor pun intended)

[Danny]

pckH-PHLccc

i just wandered onto this on youtube and i think this is the first time ive seen a candidate for the u.s presidency not mention one religion specific phrase like "praise god" or the like once, now i may not agree with all his views but its nice to see a guy not mixing religion and politics for once.

what do you guys make of this guy, we've been looking at this in media and theres been some websites saying he wouldnt be getting as much attention if he was white, wouldnt that suck though?, if people werent listening to your views they were jsut like "ooh hey a black guy".

god damn the medias a funny thing huh?

[HLS]

That was a very impressive speech as well.

[Chic Freak]

It's funny, in the UK politicians never act religious in their speeches (or not the major ones anyway).

Apparently Tony Blair was going to say "God bless" at the end of one of his speeches once and was actually advised not to.

[MinionZombie]

It's funny, in the UK politicians never act religious in their speeches (or not the major ones anyway).

Apparently Tony Blair was going to say "God bless" at the end of one of his speeches once and was actually advised not to.
And good too, religion and government should always be separate, how can you govern effectively if you rake religion into it, because then you're only truly representing those who share that one single faith, what about all the others - and what about agnostics and especially athiests too?! We're all people!

[Chic Freak]

I agree, I think that a country should be ruled according to what's logical and reasonable, not a set of religious rules. I'm not saying that religious rules can't be logical and reasonable; but it's adding a personal, subjective, abstract, belief-orientated, rather than fact-orientated, element into an area that should really be based on the practical.

Imo.

[slickwilly13]

I have a problem with who he associates himself with.

[coma]

... and what about agnostics and especially athiests too?! We're all people!
We do not matter. If you say you are an atheist/agnostic alot of people get offended and look at you like you are sad and pitiful. They may say they don't but they are flat out lying.

Obama doesnt pander nearly as much as other politicians. He makes good speeches, a true rarity, that dont sound like a compilation of focus group catchphrases. He has said the obligatory "Im a man of faith" s**t.

There is only ONE admitted atheist in US govt out of hundreds. You KNOW there is waaay more, because that defies the reality of what alot of people actually believe. They just use that to get votes. I find it insulting and annoying and antithetical to the spirit of the constitution.

Hilary is the classic panderer. For all the "Uber liberal" crap slung at her she is actually pretty conservative. She also did the "fake religious" bit and the anti flag burning banning (Cause that happens all the time:confused:. Been to a ton of protests and saw it once 15 years ago and noone there paid attention or was impressed) and the violent TV/Video game crap. I'm all for a woman pres, just NOT HER. I follow politics closely. She is one of my state senators and I have no idea what she has actually done.

John Edward is probably the best choice, but he's just a slow talking white guy. Nothing to see, move on folks cause he just talks strait and has the record to show he puts his money where his mouth is.

Back to Obama, I want something very different and he is def different. I agree with most of what he says. The social benefit to have a black pres would be great. Then you could actually say to your kid "You too could be pres" and not have it be a total big fat lie.


I have a problem with who he associates himself with.
Such as what, other democrats?


I agree, I think that a country should be ruled according to what's logical and reasonable, not a set of religious rules. I'm not saying that religious rules can't be logical and reasonable; but it's adding a personal, subjective, abstract, belief-orientated, rather than fact-orientated, element into an area that should really be based on the practical.

Imo.
We are ruled by people who are elected due to words, not deeds. If we were we would have never been subjected to GWs tyranny. The Christian block is more interested in a lot of fake pandering pronouncements rather than looking for Christian like in-spirit deeds.
They are not the only ones, just an obvious example.

funny how almost every response is pretty much from the UK.



now i may not agree with all his views
Such as?


theres been some websites saying he wouldnt be getting as much attention if he was white, wouldnt that suck though?, if people werent listening to your views they were jsut like "ooh hey a black guy".
Not true. Make no mistake that being a black man is elemental. Unlike Black republicans Obama is way more representative of the average democrat which includes the average Black person. Of course people all have their own ideas, but finding a black guy who sounds like Clarence Thomas is almost impossible.

Fact is Obama is saying what alot of people want. No more march toward tyrannical authoritarianism. Its his strait up talk getting him there.

[Chic Freak]

If you say you are an atheist/agnostic alot of people get offended and look at you like you are sad and pitiful. They may say they don't but they are flat out lying.

...funny how almost every response is pretty much from the UK.

I get the impression it's just very different here, from the limited number of american people I've spoken to about it (I've never actually been to america or anything, mind).

It seems like, over here, if you're a Christian politician, you keep it really private. It's almost like being a gay politician- okay, on paper, it's all "fine" and "normal" and shouldn't matter, but it does, and if you valued your career you might well keep quiet about it, because if people associated you with that then they might doubt your ability.

In the US, it seems to be the other way round, with people not wanting to admit to *not* being Christian. It's interesting. We share a language and it's easy to think that means we share a culture, but maybe in a lot of ways we don't.

[_liam_]

i wouldnt go so far as to say it's like being a gay politician, it's perfectly alright for it to be known you are a christian as it may win the christian vote, it's just that you cant mention it at all in interviews, speeches or anything like that.

[MinionZombie]

From what I've seen of the candidates (of which there seem to be about a million, lol), Obama seems the most impressive, it'd certainly be a very important step forward for America I'd think, personally. You guys haven't even had a female president, so a BLACK guy would be a significant punt forth.

Have you seen anything on American TV comparing Obama to David Palmer (from 24)? ... you know, cos of the whole first black president thing ... next up we need a real-life Jack Bauer to protect him ... which makes me think, I wonder how many of the folk who work on 24 are backing Obama? :)

[coma]

Have you seen anything on American TV comparing Obama to David Palmer (from 24)? ... you know, cos of the whole first black president thing ... next up we need a real-life Jack Bauer to protect him ... which makes me think, I wonder how many of the folk who work on 24 are backing Obama? :)
No comparisons to David Palmer. And 24 is created by, from what I heard, Right Wingers, so Obama will get no love.


I get the impression it's just very different here, from the limited number of american people I've spoken to about it (I've never actually been to america or anything, mind).

It seems like, over here, if you're a Christian politician, you keep it really private. It's almost like being a gay politician- okay, on paper, it's all "fine" and "normal" and shouldn't matter, but it does, and if you valued your career you might well keep quiet about it, because if people associated you with that then they might doubt your ability.

In the US, it seems to be the other way round, with people not wanting to admit to *not* being Christian. It's interesting. We share a language and it's easy to think that means we share a culture, but maybe in a lot of ways we don't.
That is all funny becasue you have a State Religion and we dont (though it seems Evangelical Christians are trying to self appoint themselves as such with More than a little GOP encouragement).

Lots of people either are apatheitc or downright loath religion, but they get no time on TV at all. Bill Maher is one of the rare few. Or less than few. Maybe the only one.

Apparently in Polls many Americans claim to go to church, but when pressed further, they only say that because they are expected to. The percentage of people I know who actually go to church regularly is like 1% and thats generous.

You UK guys would be outright shocked at the amount of religious drivel we are soaked with every day. It's non stop.

[MinionZombie]

24, right wingers? Really? Some parts are hard-edged and decisions made by characters are those of circumstance, the hard decisions - probably the sort of things the right wingers are more used to, but there's plenty of 24 that's left wing and quite common sensical.

[coma]

24, right wingers? Really? Some parts are hard-edged and decisions made by characters are those of circumstance, the hard decisions - probably the sort of things the right wingers are more used to, but there's plenty of 24 that's left wing and quite common sensical.
I just heard it hear and there and also some of the writers/creators are doing that wretched Fox news "comedy" Daily show ripoff with a laugh track. So bad you cant believe it.
Maybe not all of them are but I was surprised too. Its a pretty strait froward spy show with all the stuff spies do. I am not saying 24 is any kind of propaganda, though the torture stuff lead to some contreversy. to which I reply "so what?"

[MinionZombie]

It's funny, they're actually toning the torture down in the latter part of this latest season, and will keep that up for a little bit as they'd reached a peak with the torture, they said it became a kinda of 'go to method' in the storytelling, and while it's necessary for 24 to have a bit of the rough stuff (and the season opener certainly had plenty, the knife-in-knee was particularly "oof" inducing).

No idea what that Daily Show rip-off you're talking about, but the Daily Show is pretty darn funny, we get it a day late on More4, and on-the-day on CNN or whatever channel it is.

Fox News ... intentional comedy ... I don't think I'm the only one scratching something that isn't my balls for once...

[coma]

It's funny, they're actually toning the torture down in the latter part of this latest season, and will keep that up for a little bit as they'd reached a peak with the torture, they said it became a kinda of 'go to method' in the storytelling, and while it's necessary for 24 to have a bit of the rough stuff (and the season opener certainly had plenty, the knife-in-knee was particularly "oof" inducing).

No idea what that Daily Show rip-off you're talking about, but the Daily Show is pretty darn funny, we get it a day late on More4, and on-the-day on CNN or whatever channel it is.

Fox News ... intentional comedy ... I don't think I'm the only one scratching something that isn't my balls for once...
Too bad they are laying off the violence:). Thats what makes it good. Yeah and the story,acting all that other crap too.

Count yourself lucky you dont know what I mean. Its pure ass.
Fox News is not even unintentionally funny. The right wing Pravda just doesnt have a funny bone. Unless you consider a foreign national operating a propaganda wing of the US gov with the sole intent of manipulating policy and formenting a and horrific war through blatant lies.
Thats a real knee slapper!
HawHaw!:moon:

[_liam_]

24 is cracking stuff, but to say it doesnt have a fair few right wingers on the production team is iffy. think on it...

the advocating of torture was a good point

[slickwilly13]

We do not matter. If you say you are an atheist/agnostic alot of people get offended and look at you like you are sad and pitiful. They may say they don't but they are flat out lying.

Obama doesnt pander nearly as much as other politicians. He makes good speeches, a true rarity, that dont sound like a compilation of focus group catchphrases. He has said the obligatory "Im a man of faith" s**t.

There is only ONE admitted atheist in US govt out of hundreds. You KNOW there is waaay more, because that defies the reality of what alot of people actually believe. They just use that to get votes. I find it insulting and annoying and antithetical to the spirit of the constitution.

Hilary is the classic panderer. For all the "Uber liberal" crap slung at her she is actually pretty conservative. She also did the "fake religious" bit and the anti flag burning banning (Cause that happens all the time:confused:. Been to a ton of protests and saw it once 15 years ago and noone there paid attention or was impressed) and the violent TV/Video game crap. I'm all for a woman pres, just NOT HER. I follow politics closely. She is one of my state senators and I have no idea what she has actually done.

John Edward is probably the best choice, but he's just a slow talking white guy. Nothing to see, move on folks cause he just talks strait and has the record to show he puts his money where his mouth is.

Back to Obama, I want something very different and he is def different. I agree with most of what he says. The social benefit to have a black pres would be great. Then you could actually say to your kid "You too could be pres" and not have it be a total big fat lie.


Such as what, other democrats?


We are ruled by people who are elected due to words, not deeds. If we were we would have never been subjected to GWs tyranny. The Christian block is more interested in a lot of fake pandering pronouncements rather than looking for Christian like in-spirit deeds.
They are not the only ones, just an obvious example.

funny how almost every response is pretty much from the UK.



Such as?


Not true. Make no mistake that being a black man is elemental. Unlike Black republicans Obama is way more representative of the average democrat which includes the average Black person. Of course people all have their own ideas, but finding a black guy who sounds like Clarence Thomas is almost impossible.

Fact is Obama is saying what alot of people want. No more march toward tyrannical authoritarianism. Its his strait up talk getting him there.

Part of it, but mostly Rev. Al Sharpton and those types.

[coma]

Part of it, but mostly Rev. Al Sharpton and those types.
If you want to meet a black leader now, it's down to Sharpton, Jesse and Farrakhan. All the others are dead. Murdered by rascists and the FBI. So I dont think thats fair to critisize that. And he's a democrat. Who else is he going to hang out with? David Duke?

[slickwilly13]

I have no real beef with him just those 3 that you mentioned. and Quanell X. If he hangs out with Duke, then he'll probably hang from a tree. People will judge you by who you assoicate with. Them 4 that I mentioned give decent black folks a bad name.

[coma]

I have no real beef with him just those 3 that you mentioned. and Quanell X. If he hangs out with Duke, then he'll probably hang from a tree. People will judge you by who you assoicate with. Them 4 that I mentioned give decent black folks a bad name.
Never heard of Quanell X. Sharpton gets a bad rap. Much of it deserved, but he's not the jackass he's made out to be. In NY you see him on TV and radio all the time and he often makes sense. He is consistent as a champion for Black people when few others are. He also doesnt get rich off it either. He doesnt have too much personal income.
I think Obama is his own man. I have heard him described as a politician who is black rather than a black politican. Like its not the only thing he thinks about or represents.

If he wins the primary it would be my pleasure to vote for him.
Hilary. Ah crap. Another lesser of 2 evils. She represents everything I hate about American politics. I have no idea what her positions are on pretty much anything.

I just looked Quanell X. Appaently he's more of a local figure than a national one.

[Danny]

dude she aint a candidate is she?, geezus ,imagine if hilary clinton became the president of the united sates:dead:

that means no horror movies or violent videogames ever!:( , worst case scenario ever?, allthough maybe that would mean england and europe would get stuff at the same time rather than about 6 months after the us and japan.

[coma]

dude she aint a candidate is she?, geezus ,imagine if hilary clinton became the president of the united sates:dead:

that means no horror movies or violent videogames ever!:( , worst case scenario ever?, allthough maybe that would mean england and europe would get stuff at the same time rather than about 6 months after the us and japan.
Yup. and if it doesnt change, most likely canidate.
ugh
Her poll ratings are high, but Obama is getting bumps becasue the mosre people hear him, they like him more. He's pretty much the only guy thats not fulla s**t

She wont censor anything, just pandering to get conservative support that she will never get no matter what she says, and at the same time totally alienating the poeple who would actually vote for her.

[mista_mo]

I like this obama chap..altho, my knowledge of American politics is severly limited (me being Canadian and all) i like him more so then that hag Clinton.

But to be fair, I couldn't give two ****s who is elected President of America. If he's black he's black, atheist, atheist, women women, I don't care...I'm more partial to Canadian politics (again, me being Canadian) and the fact that the Liberals are pushing for anouther election..thats what...3 elections in how many years? Come on Liberals, you had almost 2 decades to get it right, and you didn't so screw off, let the conservative party give it a shot with all the power you guys had.

[slickwilly13]

I just looked Quanell X. Appaently he's more of a local figure than a national one.

He's a local pain in the ass. I live near Houston. Everything is a race card with this guy.

[MinionZombie]

I don't understand how 24 is considered to have a bunch of right wingers behind it, it never strikes me as such, more like left wingers and people occupying the centre ground, or at the furthest stretch, centre-right...

Does anyone have a comprehensive list of the political leanings of the 24 cast and crew? ... ... ... :shifty::rockbrow:

[_liam_]

dude its a program about how awesome a US intelligence agent is, that advocates the use of torture

"Joel Surnow is an American writer and producer best known for being the creator of the Emmy winning television series 24. He also produces the Fox News Channel The Half Hour News Hour."


ever watch fox? right wing central

i was watching the other day, they were talking about whether the iraq war was right or not, so they got on a pro war mother of a guy whos done 2 or 3 tours of duty and re-re signed up, and.... uh... one of bush snrs advisors, who was pro war...um...okey, it was quite a debate i can tell you


but yeah, the creator of the show seems to lean that way, ill have to check out the other writers, tbh i dont think the production designer or the lighting mans political leanings affect much, so i think it can be judged from the writing team

[MinionZombie]

Still though, it can be intensely critical of the American government at the same time, especially the president - David Palmer, the first black President is assassinated by the home team, Charles Logan is a weakling in season 4, and is then a manipulative scumbag in season 5 who, amongst a slew of naughty behaviour, tips the Chinese off to Jack's whereabouts so he can be kidnapped and sent off to months of constant torture...they even have an episode where it looks very real that president Logan is gonna pop a cap in his point-chinned head ... that's a pretty dim view of the Republican government if you ask me (they even through in Logan praying at one point).

Mind you, the President prior to Logan in season 4 (before he gets blown up on Air Force One) seems like a decent enough chap and a Republican (doi, cos Logan is one too, and that's the party in power during that season).

It seems like a pretty balanced show to me, yes the intelligence agencies are rocking cock left right and centre, but season six kicks off with them having failed to prevent a whole slew of terrorist attacks and they're in dire straights. There's the odd uber-Liberal pansy thrown in amongst the staff, there was even a complete wanker (Secretary of defense Heller's son) who was a snivelling pot-smoking, tree-hugging pansy. So that's a dim view of the uber-Liberals, but then even the hard-edged (most likely Republican) characters such as *forgets name* (the dude assassinated by Jack Bauer on the demands of the terrorists in season 3), he was a complete and utter dildo hard-ass who was most likely a Republican character.

So I think the show is balanced and has a dim view of everyone and likewise a good view of everyone, hell, in this latest season they've got a terrorist leader who's chosen to put down his arms and work with the president to inspire his terrorist peers to come forth to the table of discussion, but it's buggered up by (clearly right-leaning) conspirators within the government.

Yep, I'm a 24 nerd. :cool: ... ... any chicks watching? :sneaky:

[bassman]

The dude was smart not to mention religion. Sometimes, if you try too hard to push your religion on people......the people strike back....

Vulgar, but pretty damn funny.
vHt5USBMxkc

:lol:

[Danny]

Does anyone have a comprehensive list of the political leanings of the 24 cast and crew? ... ... ... :shifty::rockbrow:

luckily in fact i do, and ,an overhead projector to display my findings:p

[coma]

The dude was smart not to mention religion. Sometimes, if you try too hard to push your religion on people......the people strike back....

Vulgar, but pretty damn funny.

Looks staged to me. They look like Mormons. Jehovas are usually Black and Latino.

[capncnut]

Yup. Staged.

[MinionZombie]

Staged most likely, but funny none-the-less ... I hate door-steppers, F*CK OFF ALREADY!!! If I wanted your crappy religion that you have to advertise door-to-freaking-door, then I'd already be standing beside you annoying other innocent homeowners who don't want your shiite. ARGH!

*rolls around in his own atheism and enjoys it* :lol:

[capncnut]

*rolls around in his own atheism and enjoys it* :lol:
LOL, say when when God pulls the lever to the trapdoor on your ass. :lol:

[coma]

*rolls around in his own atheism and enjoys it* :lol:
Stop that. Only dogs do that.

Jeffery Dahmer said you have to get your morality from the Bible, without it you will have no morals. He should know, right?

[MinionZombie]

LOL, say when when God pulls the lever to the trapdoor on your ass. :lol:
Hey man, if I die and then wake up on a fluffy cloud and there's a guy sitting at a desk with "I'm God, bitch!" written on his little title card thingy, then I'll own up and admit I was wrong ... however, right now, I ain't got anything real to go on, so I'm sticking with science. :D

*runs, jumps and belly flops into a big pool of atheism* :p:lol:

[coma]

*runs, jumps and belly flops into a big pool of atheism* :p:lol:
Wheeeee! I'm all covered in Atheism. Mom's gonna be mad!

2 boringest conversations in the world
Insurance
Religion
*yawn!*

[MinionZombie]

Wheeeee! I'm all covered in Atheism. Mom's gonna be mad!

2 boringest conversations in the world
Insurance
Religion
*yawn!*
Try talking to a religious insurance salesman! HO! :eek:

[coma]

Try talking to a religious insurance salesman! HO! :eek:\I have actually had that experience.
Know what he talked about?
His stamp collection!
help!

[Danny]

Wheeeee! I'm all covered in Atheism. Mom's gonna be mad!

2 boringest conversations in the world
Insurance
Religion
*yawn!*

then you didnt read my post about how i convinced a friend the devil wrote the bible, i also told him the other day that the reason we cant find a missing link is cus we interbred with aliens when humantiy dwindled during a past ice age or something to a few thousand, and we dont have fur and tales becuase we look more like aliens than apes now.


dern i love screwin' with peoples heads.

and on the threads topic note, i printed off some satanic liteature off the net and give it to jahovas witness' that knock on my door.

-though once i told one my thoery how caddyshack was a homage and theological expression of the nature of faith:lol:

[MinionZombie]

lol ... only dogs and me, you mean! :D

As for Dahmer, he can suck a f*ck, I've no faith but I have morals still. Religion doesn't make the man, the man makes the man (agreeing with you btw).

[coma]

lol ... only dogs and me, you mean! :D

As for Dahmer, he can suck a f*ck, I've no faith but I have morals still. Religion doesn't make the man, the man makes the man (agreeing with you btw).
Dahmer kept a dick in a box to snack on later so his views on Morality and self control are...umm... suspect:p

Funny,that stereotype "saved in jail" bit.
If you want parole you pretty much have to keep repeating "god, lord, jesus, bible, saved" etc

[MinionZombie]

If you want parole you pretty much have to keep repeating "god, lord, jesus, bible, saved" etc

Sounds like this Alcoholics Anonymous thing you guys have in America (we probably have it hear, but perhaps a bit different) where they have to pledge allegience to God or something ... now that's a bit messed up if you're agnostic, of some weird faith, or prefer to bathe in the sordid pool of atheism & vice (like myself) ...

Why does religion have to have anything to do with saved morality? In fact, you're just as likely, or possibly more likely, to achieve that through you're own effort and rationality and elbow grease, rather than incessant praying and such ... besides, sounds like a system to be easily abused.

Was reading something interesting recently though, that in court you can swear on something that isn't the Bible, or on nothing at all if you're a vice-pool-diver like myself. :lol: At least that's something, but then you think - especially in America - if you were there as a witness and proclaimed your atheism at the start, would that warp the view of the jury, especially if it's a court in some place like Alabama?

That's pretty messed up...

[coma]

Sounds like this Alcoholics Anonymous thing you guys have in America (we probably have it hear, but perhaps a bit different) where they have to pledge allegience to God or something ... now that's a bit messed up if you're agnostic, of some weird faith, or prefer to bathe in the sordid pool of atheism & vice (like myself) ...

Why does religion have to have anything to do with saved morality? In fact, you're just as likely, or possibly more likely, to achieve that through you're own effort and rationality and elbow grease, rather than incessant praying and such ... besides, sounds like a system to be easily abused.

Was reading something interesting recently though, that in court you can swear on something that isn't the Bible, or on nothing at all if you're a vice-pool-diver like myself. :lol: At least that's something, but then you think - especially in America - if you were there as a witness and proclaimed your atheism at the start, would that warp the view of the jury, especially if it's a court in some place like Alabama?

That's pretty messed up...
AA has the "higher power" principle. Give up your will to a higher power. Which means Jesus (becasue the creators was jesus people) but is sometimes interpreted to mean your Harly you trick out or you gamecube . whatever. It seems like a place to get some ass for a lot of people. In Hollywood its a networking place.
It helps some people, but I dont know. Its really "I have the will to stop and people to talk about it with" that I think ios the real reason it can work.

I would swear on a Bible if in court because Americans dont like/trust Athiests. Though I think many people are pretty much disinterested but ,because of societal expectations, claim to be faithful. Usually the only admitted atheists/Agnostics are arty,intellectual, science types.

A funny line from A movie called She's the one described it perfectly

"I cant divorce your Mother. Its a sin!"
"But Dad, you don't believe in God"
"Doesn't mean I cant be a good Catholic":lol:

[7feet]

Sounds like this Alcoholics Anonymous thing you guys have in America (we probably have it hear, but perhaps a bit different) where they have to pledge allegience to God or something ... now that's a bit messed up if you're agnostic, of some weird faith, or prefer to bathe in the sordid pool of atheism & vice (like myself) ...


A little side tack, but i remember a conversation with my dear old arsehole dad. They actually call it your "Higher Power". I thought the god aspect was kinda ridiculous. He said his friend decided his higher power was his '57 Chevy. That'd work for me.

That said, I think Obama could do okay, and it would certainly be a watershed event if he got elected. But when you have a mook in office who makes Nixon look good, how tha hell can you go wrong?

But in some of his early speeches, pre announcing candidacy, he did get a little goddy. Guess it's a requirement. He hasn't whacked me in the face with it yet, or said anything blatantly hypocritical that I've found yet, so that's a tentative thumbs up.

Just no Hilary. Please no. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! I like Chuck Schumer (one of my senators) but she hasn't seemed to do f**k-all as my other in 7 years, just fishing for "her moment in history" leading to right now. Besides her general "Universal health care now, mother$$$$ers" which I can get behind.