300 Question

[EvilNed]

Would there be something wrong with me thinking this film preaches nationalism and also seems to glorify nazi ideals of the superior being? I know Zack Snyder SAYS there isn't anything political about the film, but only an idiot would think you could make a film and not having some of your own views rub off on it.

All bad guys in the film are either: Disfigured, Middle eastern, black or feminine. All of these are the EXACT same people who were villinized in german propaganda films in the 1940s. As well as obvious creative references to Leni Riefenstahl, I have a hard time seeing this film as anything else than nationalsocialist crap. Albeit with very good action scenes...

[Minerva_Zombi]

I got a question, how come the movie was full of blood flying across the screen but not one drop on the ground. Watch carefully, the bloody disappears into thin air as it falls. Thats pretty lame.

[bassman]

Wait a minute. Are you saying that you actually watched "300", ned?:eek:

[EvilNed]

Under forced conditions, I assure you. I came out totally baffled. The film was a piece of ****, idealizing aryan and nazi ideals, but the action scenes were ace. I came to despise it for completly other reasons than I originally did.

Btw, after seeing it I can totally see what the iranians are so pissed about.

[Dommm]

Now I have to watch this, you just perked my interest ned, can't slate it till I have watched it.

[bassman]

The action is one of the things that pissed me off about "300". Slow, fast, slow, slow, fast. F*cking annoying.

I don't know about the whole historical accuracy thing because the film was never meant to be accurate, but just as a film.....it's just about as bad as "Dawn04". The only thing that pushes it a notch above "Dawn04" are some good visuals(Snyder's only talent, imo).

[Neil]

Under forced conditions, I assure you. I came out totally baffled. The film was a piece of ****, idealizing aryan and nazi ideals, but the action scenes were ace. I came to despise it for completly other reasons than I originally did.

Btw, after seeing it I can totally see what the iranians are so pissed about.

LOL!

I think you could read anything into most films... I suspect you could find the same meaning in Snow White of you looked hard enough :)


ps: I really enjoyed the film :)

[EvilNed]

Neil, let me present the facts...

#A: The constant talk about Sparta this, Sparta that. There is no doubt in anyones mind that the film glorifies and encourages nationalism.

#B: The good men in the film are portrayed pretty much the same way the good guys in Nazi ideology was: Strong athletes, Nieztchian "Super men" with blond hair and blue eyes. The spartans ALL have blue eyes.

#C: The bad guys in the film are the unwanted, in Nazi ideology. The foreigners, the weak and handicapped and the feminine/homosexuals. Xerxes is portrayed as a feminine character, whereas in reallife he would have boasted one of the longest beards you could ever imagine. The same goes for the Spartan traitor Ephialtes. He's weak because he's disfigured, and also unwanted (which the film pretty much shows that he is! Even Leonidas sees him as unwanted!). Then we have the foreigners. The film goes to extreme length to alienate "them" from "us". To such extremes that they are portayed as orclike creatures underneath their masks.

The film is first and foremost extremely racist. Second, and not far behind, comes nazism. I don't think Zack Snyder is a nazi, but he sure **** just churned out one of the most racist/nazi films I've ever seen... And I've seen Triumph of Will, man.

As for finding nazi elements in Snow White: Yes, you probably can. But there they would be hidden and covert. In 300 they're in plain sight, and extremely overt! The entire film pretty much revolves around it!

[Khardis]

Would there be something wrong with me thinking this film preaches nationalism and also seems to glorify nazi ideals of the superior being? I know Zack Snyder SAYS there isn't anything political about the film, but only an idiot would think you could make a film and not having some of your own views rub off on it.

All bad guys in the film are either: Disfigured, Middle eastern, black or feminine. All of these are the EXACT same people who were villinized in german propaganda films in the 1940s. As well as obvious creative references to Leni Riefenstahl, I have a hard time seeing this film as anything else than nationalsocialist crap. Albeit with very good action scenes...

maybe the Nazis were copying the Spartans? The Spartans DID believe in perfection of men, its why they killed weak babies.


Neil, let me present the facts...

#A: The constant talk about Sparta this, Sparta that. There is no doubt in anyones mind that the film glorifies and encourages nationalism.

#B: The good men in the film are portrayed pretty much the same way the good guys in Nazi ideology was: Strong athletes, Nieztchian "Super men" with blond hair and blue eyes. The spartans ALL have blue eyes.

#C: The bad guys in the film are the unwanted, in Nazi ideology. The foreigners, the weak and handicapped and the feminine/homosexuals. Xerxes is portrayed as a feminine character, whereas in reallife he would have boasted one of the longest beards you could ever imagine. The same goes for the Spartan traitor Ephialtes. He's weak because he's disfigured, and also unwanted (which the film pretty much shows that he is! Even Leonidas sees him as unwanted!). Then we have the foreigners. The film goes to extreme length to alienate "them" from "us". To such extremes that they are portayed as orclike creatures underneath their masks.

The film is first and foremost extremely racist. Second, and not far behind, comes nazism. I don't think Zack Snyder is a nazi, but he sure **** just churned out one of the most racist/nazi films I've ever seen... And I've seen Triumph of Will, man.

As for finding nazi elements in Snow White: Yes, you probably can. But there they would be hidden and covert. In 300 they're in plain sight, and extremely overt! The entire film pretty much revolves around it!

Nationalism isnt bad.

Spartans like most people of that period were very nationalistic because you DID have scummy persians invading.

Calling the film racist is absurd. Youre reading far too deeply into it looking for a reason to bash the director.

[EvilNed]

maybe the Nazis were copying the Spartans? The Spartans DID believe in perfection of men, its why they killed weak babies.

Which is glorified in the film.



Nationalism isnt bad.

Only good things come from nationalism, it's true.

http://www.vidaslusofonas.pt/adolf_hitler07.jpg

Oh, and the First World War too. Let's not forget, that was caused by nationalism as well.


Spartans like most people of that period were very nationalistic because you DID have scummy persians invading.

Calling the film racist is absurd. Youre reading far too deeply into it looking for a reason to bash the director.

Actually, I think Zack Snyder unintentionally added all this stuff. But that doesn't change the fact that this film IS racist on a very high degree. Anyone who says it isn't is either blind or lying.

Spartans had scummy persians invading as much as THEY THEMSELVES invaded other Greek city states and enslaved them. Ever hear of Helots? There were seven slaves to every Spartan citizen in Sparta.

Not seeing the racism and unintentional neo-nazi thrife in this film is just shutting your eyes. Not saying the film is bad, that's up to you to decide. But the film IS racist. Depicting the persians weak, disfigured or feminine is pretty much evidence of that.

[Terran]

LOL!

I think you could read anything into most films... I suspect you could find the same meaning in Snow White of you looked hard enough :)


Or Bladerunner....look at how Roy Batty appears....perfect in everyway?
Blonde hair....blue....or green eyes....I dunno....not brown eyes.....

[Exatreides]

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i115/exatreide/Leonidas.jpg

ARGGG!!!

haha

Wait, so Synder went from having no ability for depth in Dawn 04, to loads of social intrigue and racism in his next movie?

You obviously missed the Marixism of dawn 04 then.

The movie begins with the capitalists running around about their normal lives. Screwing the poor, and enriching themselves.

Then...
The long awaited peoples revolution comes! Captalism is delt a death blow, the surviving burgiouse flee into the last sanctum of capalism.

The shopping mall. Here they baricade themselves in, and lavish in their own decadence while the people claw at the walls to get in.

Oh to convert those capatlists, oh to get them to join the people! The perfect community of human beings!

Of course Andy is a reference to the Swiss, A fortress island sorounded by hoards (Nazi's Communists, French) He too falls however.

The capatlists flee their last strong hold, and one by one the peoples undead liberation army (PULA) re-educates them.


Well if thats the case then, Yea I can see how 300 is racist

[Khardis]

Which is glorified in the film.




Only good things come from nationalism, it's true.

http://www.vidaslusofonas.pt/adolf_hitler07.jpg

Oh, and the First World War too. Let's not forget, that was caused by nationalism as well.



Actually, I think Zack Snyder unintentionally added all this stuff. But that doesn't change the fact that this film IS racist on a very high degree. Anyone who says it isn't is either blind or lying.

Spartans had scummy persians invading as much as THEY THEMSELVES invaded other Greek city states and enslaved them. Ever hear of Helots? There were seven slaves to every Spartan citizen in Sparta.

Not seeing the racism and unintentional neo-nazi thrife in this film is just shutting your eyes. Not saying the film is bad, that's up to you to decide. But the film IS racist. Depicting the persians weak, disfigured or feminine is pretty much evidence of that.

lol nice leap of logic. Nationalism - nazis because nazis were nationalistic?

Thats like saying Atheism creates stalinist butchers who massacre millions.

or wait, maybe carbon makes nazis... right? I mean the nazis were made up of carbon atoms...

By the way if the 3rd reich was nationalistic, what were the Brits at the time? Multicultural globalists? LOL.

Youre just trying to find any way to stick it to Snyder. Usually the racism and bigotry is in the eye of the beholder.

And WW1 was started because of secret alliances.

[Exatreides]

That and Gavario Princip.

[Moon Knight]

Ughh....it's based off a Frank Miller Graphic Novel....Snyder didn't create these characters.

[Neil]

Neil, let me present the facts...

#A: The constant talk about Sparta this, Sparta that. There is no doubt in anyones mind that the film glorifies and encourages nationalism.It was about Spartan's in Sparta... Go figure!


#B: The good men in the film are portrayed pretty much the same way the good guys in Nazi ideology was: Strong athletes, Nieztchian "Super men" with blond hair and blue eyes. The spartans ALL have blue eyes.They were the good guys! They were defending their country against invasion! They were a country where the only "job" for a male was a soldier... and any infant not looking healthy enough at birth was left in the elements to die... There entire conditioning is going to make them pretty "super" physically! They didn't have a wall around their city for reason...


#C: The bad guys in the film are the unwanted, in Nazi ideology. The foreigners, the weak and handicapped and the feminine/homosexuals. Xerxes is portrayed as a feminine character, whereas in reallife he would have boasted one of the longest beards you could ever imagine. The same goes for the Spartan traitor Ephialtes. He's weak because he's disfigured, and also unwanted (which the film pretty much shows that he is! Even Leonidas sees him as unwanted!). Then we have the foreigners. The film goes to extreme length to alienate "them" from "us". To such extremes that they are portayed as orclike creatures underneath their masks.Xerxes a feminine character? He was like 12ft tall with a voice so deep it would put Barry White to shame! I certainly wouldn't want to find him in my bed!

Yes, the goodies were portayed as goodies, and the badies as badies... Comic books do that, and rarely do you find a badie looking attractive...

[Khardis]

Yeah and theres nothing wrong with natonalism. Nationalism is a countrys version of individualism. And individualism is good.

[EvilNed]

Nationalism WAS the cuase of the First World War, and I for one think it's a load of bullcrap. I can't think of a single good thing Nationalism has caused. And yes, Nazis were nationalists. Nazis is an abbreviation of National Socialists after all.

As for 300, I'm not saying it's deep. But to deny the fact that it bears striking similiarities to the 1940s film Jud Süß where good guys are blonde and the bad guys are those that do not fit nazi ideals is ignorance. I'm not even saying Zack Snyder intentionally put stuff into the film, but I do believe he is an idiot. Making a film like this at this particular time in history and NOT expecting people to apply it to modern events is just folly. I mean the guy must not have studied any film whatsoever.

That being said the film is entertaining. But it could serve as a propaganda film in 1940s Germany. It uses a historical event and spins it out of control to fit the creators political ambitions. Spartans, blue eyed "uber mensch" defending their country against disfigured people, foreigners and people of other sexual orientations. Hello, does this strike a bell with anyone?

[Neil]

I think we're going to have to agree to totally disagree on this one :)


That being said the film is entertaining.Yes, and that's all it pretends and aims to be...

But it could serve as a propaganda film in 1940s Germany.So could Star Wars, Lord of the Rings and Sparticus no doubt...

It uses a historical event and spins it out of control to fit the creators political ambitions. Spartans, blue eyed "uber mensch" defending their country against disfigured people, foreigners and people of other sexual orientations. Hello, does this strike a bell with anyone?
OK... The only guy to get a true sexual peak was one of your disfigured people, what sort of lesson would that be?
One of the women of your perfect state prostitutes herself, what sort of lesson would that be?
Pick and choose what you will from a story and you can find what you want...

This is a comic book adaptation... Have a go at Frank Miller maybe?

[slickwilly13]

RedNed, you're just mad because there wasn't a sex scene between Xerxes and the hunchback. :p

[Exatreides]

I know I was :rockbrow:


no one commented on my white power spartan, I took a whole 38 seconds in paint to make it :(

[Terran]

RedNed, you're just mad because there wasn't a sex scene between Xerxes and the hunchback. :p

I know I was.....I wanted to see some humpback loving.....

[Khardis]

Nationalism WAS the cuase of the First World War, and I for one think it's a load of bullcrap. I can't think of a single good thing Nationalism has caused. And yes, Nazis were nationalists. Nazis is an abbreviation of National Socialists after all.

As for 300, I'm not saying it's deep. But to deny the fact that it bears striking similiarities to the 1940s film Jud Süß where good guys are blonde and the bad guys are those that do not fit nazi ideals is ignorance. I'm not even saying Zack Snyder intentionally put stuff into the film, but I do believe he is an idiot. Making a film like this at this particular time in history and NOT expecting people to apply it to modern events is just folly. I mean the guy must not have studied any film whatsoever.

That being said the film is entertaining. But it could serve as a propaganda film in 1940s Germany. It uses a historical event and spins it out of control to fit the creators political ambitions. Spartans, blue eyed "uber mensch" defending their country against disfigured people, foreigners and people of other sexual orientations. Hello, does this strike a bell with anyone?

Hmm what good came of nationalism, well 1st of all in relation to the film it kept Greece free and thus kept Europe frm becoming a pieceof Persia. It kept the Brits free from the Nazis, it kept the USA chugging along through most global crisis'. Its a pretty decent thing. Nationalism which is defined as a devotion to ones own country and people, is not bad. its a good thing. Its actually why the world is so flavorful.

If anything WW1 was begun because of alliances and globalism. Germany had no reason to be in that war, but for thier alliance with certain Balklan people.

So logically it was actually anti-nationalism that began WW1.

[EvilNed]

Hmm what good came of nationalism, well 1st of all in relation to the film it kept Greece free and thus kept Europe frm becoming a pieceof Persia. It kept the Brits free from the Nazis, it kept the USA chugging along through most global crisis'. Its a pretty decent thing. Nationalism which is defined as a devotion to ones own country and people, is not bad. its a good thing. Its actually why the world is so flavorful.

Explain to me exactly what piece of Greece was free during this time. British nationality (Imperialism more like it) also cast millions of people into slavery and oppression throughout the world. Same thing with the US. I'm sure the people IN the country had a jolly time, tho. Very jolly.



If anything WW1 was begun because of alliances and globalism. Germany had no reason to be in that war, but for thier alliance with certain Balklan people.

Slavic nationalism sparked the war in the first place. Strong nationality within each country made sure that they were eager to march into war. "Come, strong germans!" they said. "It's only the French, we can take them in 6 months time."


So logically it was actually anti-nationalism that began WW1.

Wrong.


One of the women of your perfect state prostitutes herself, what sort of lesson would that be?

Ever see Jud Süß..? Not saying that Zack Snyder (because this part wasn't in the comic book) was trying to reference that flick (infact he's probably never even seen it) but there a white woman gives herself to a jew to save men from evil.


So could Star Wars, Lord of the Rings and Sparticus no doubt...

I failed to see any strong idealization of super-men and lowermen in Star Wars, Lord of the Rings and Spartacus.


RedNed, you're just mad because there wasn't a sex scene between Xerxes and the hunchback.

We DID get to see the hunchback fondle some chicks tho.

[Exatreides]

Hmmm...

nothing in star wars eh?

Maybe the fact that the entire Empire consists of White Humans, with aliens cast aside and enslaved. Maybe the fact that the Imperial empire had Storm troopers, who never questioned the empire?

Maybe the death star, sun crusher, centerpoint station, and other "super weapons" built insted of tradition style army?

[EvilNed]

Maybe the fact that the entire Empire consists of White Humans, with aliens cast aside and enslaved. Maybe the fact that the Imperial empire had Storm troopers, who never questioned the empire?

You're right, that would definetly qualify it for a 1940's Nazi audience.

[Khardis]

kill the white man! and individualism! And the right of the common person to take care of themself! Everything is a reference to Nazidom! Except the glories and wonders of communism and globalism! YAAAAY!

[EvilNed]

kill the white man! and individualism! And the right of the common person to take care of themself! Everything is a reference to Nazidom! Except the glories and wonders of communism and globalism! YAAAAY!

... Sure? If that's what you want, then go ahead. :confused:

[Khardis]

... Sure? If that's what you want, then go ahead. :confused:

Isnt that the point of anti-nationalism and globalism? To destroy individualism and make those evil white imperialists pay? Eh comrade?

[AcesandEights]

Isnt that the point of anti-nationalism and globalism? To destroy individualism and make those evil white imperialists pay? Eh comrade?

I trust you are fighting one simplistic idea by lampooning it with the offering of an equally overly simplified blanket statement?

[erisi236]

This somehow reminds me of all the people back in the day who said Black Hawk Down was racist because most of the US soldiers were White and the badguys were all Black. :rockbrow:

And why all this bad talk directed towards Nazis? Imperial Japan had the exact same ideals, bad mouth them, give the Germans a break. :D

Besides, Nazis are HAWT!

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/erisi236/jgal_08.jpg

[EvilNed]

Isnt that the point of anti-nationalism and globalism? To destroy individualism and make those evil white imperialists pay? Eh comrade?

I frankly don't see what nationalism has to do with individualism. In many countries, nationalism served as an excuse to get RID of individualism.


And why all this bad talk directed towards Nazis? Imperial Japan had the exact same ideals, bad mouth them, give the Germans a break.

They were a bit different. Japanese weren't nazis that wanted there to be ONE ideal race and nothing more. They were just assholes that needed to get the **** kicked out of them.