American Dream 1776-2007 RIP

[Bongholio]

dream another dream this dream is over

There was a 42% default rate for home mortages last year.
Now the first of the major contributors to the so called housing bubble's
"irrational exuberance" has bitten the dust.
Odd they are not named in this article (good riddance New Century Financial).
LOST ANOTHER LOAN TO DITECH!!! lol
People should really keep an eye on this.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070406/cm_csm/ehometown;_ylt=A0WTcVOlFxdGtMUArAb8B2YD
I hope I can properly adjust & accelerate my leaving the big city outline and rural ownership + supply acquisitions,...this is too soon I just signed a year lease egads
Pretend nothings wrong till the end.
"We keep this civilization narcotized, for otherwise it could not endure itself. That is why its sleep must not be disturbed..."
Stanislaw Lem THE FUTUROLOGICAL CONGRESS 1971

[axlish]

Damn dude I thought Dusty Rhodes had died. :(

[Khardis]

Owning your house was the American dream? I thought that living freely enough to worship as you please, speak your mind when you want to and earn wealth with work was the American dream. Ah damnit... now im going to have to move to China or something.

[coma]

Owning your house was the American dream? I thought that living freely enough to worship as you please, speak your mind when you want to and earn wealth with work was the American dream. Ah damnit... now im going to have to move to China or something.
Originally "the pursuit of happiness" was the pursuit of property. Life Liberty and the pursuit of property. Only white males over 21 property owners could vote so to be a full citizen you also needed to own property. So its not off the mark. And renting sucks. I would rather **** up my plumbing myself than my drunk super.:D I would consider not being beholden to a landlord to be a step towards self determination. Though crazy high property taxes and owing a bank kinda defeats that.:mad:

btw. as I was posting Jehova witnesses came to my door. I opened it up in my underwear and saud "not interested, thanks!":lol:


dream another dream this dream is over

There was a 42% default rate for home mortages last year.
That is Craaaaaaaazy high.:eek: Uh oh. Not looking good for the unwashed masses.

That dreams been over dude, Sadly enough :(

[EvilNed]

I always thought the American Dream had something to do with Scarface. I dunno, that's what it said in the tagline anyway.

[Exatreides]

If it doesn't then, I could have spent alot of money for my coke empire better :(

[Tied2thetracks]

Owning your house was the American dream? I thought that living freely enough to worship as you please, speak your mind when you want to and earn wealth with work was the American dream. Ah damnit... now im going to have to move to China or something.

Owning your own home is an american dream. THE American dream is combonation of this coupled with the above mentioned.

Unfortnatly with property taxes and loan interests its harder to hold on to the owning your own home part. Often my family finds itself behind on house payments. $700 a month gets pricy after you through a few children iinto the mix.

[tju1973]

Pay your bills and live WITHIN IN YOUR MEANS.

The American dream IS NOT built on extended credit or bankruptsy.

I am salaried now at $52K plus a 1% total revenue (off of about $100K per month)--- My wife workd for less than me---

We have a nice 3 Bdr brick in the North Dallas suburbs-- own an SUV and an extended cab Ford PU...

We have cable..high speed internet.. and eat out about 4 times a week...

AND WE HAVE NO MONEY ISSUES...

live within your means, budget, and pay your bills-- this results in no foreclosre..

BTW we saved and put a $30K down payment on our home...

Sacrifice ? Yes..

Our stuff and no others? Hell yes.


Originally "the pursuit of happiness" was the pursuit of property. Life Liberty and the pursuit of property. Only white males over 21 property owners could vote so to be a full citizen you also needed to own property. So its not off the mark. And renting sucks. I would rather **** up my plumbing myself than my drunk super.:D I would consider not being beholden to a landlord to be a step towards self determination. Though crazy high property taxes and owing a bank kinda defeats that.:mad:

btw. as I was posting Jehova witnesses came to my door. I opened it up in my underwear and saud "not interested, thanks!":lol:


That is Craaaaaaaazy high.:eek: Uh oh. Not looking good for the unwashed masses.

That dreams been over dude, Sadly enough :(

"F" the unwashed masses. I came from a poor farm and I made it.

Slackers, whiners and fat b*tches be damned... I work for my piece!

:evil:

[erisi236]

Wait.... what???


The US rate of homeownership is at a historic high – 69 percent.

Did anyone actually READ that link? :rockbrow:

[MissJacksonCA]

I've seen so many of these stories lately and the thing that gets me is that the people who lose their homes are so stupid. They're not reading fine print, they're not asking for better offers and they're signing up for mortgages that require them to work overtime. If you can't afford a house dont bloody well buy one I mean its that simple. To my way of thinking the American dream is now something like gee how do I overspend today? My dad is a genious he doesn't have to worry about spending money he's got more of it than the late Aaron Spelling but my mom is the perfect example of spending stupidly. She buys things for a home she hasn't bought yet and then wonders gee how come I can't afford to buy a home. Well could it be that you spend what you have and then there's none left over to save? She bought a home after she received her divorce settlement but didn't have enough money to cover her monthly mortgage or annual taxes and a company actual gave her the mortgage based entirely on how much she gets in child support because she had no job. I was appalled. As if that wasn't bad enough the morons home was 4 bedrooms with 2.5 baths, it had a formal living and dining, a fully finished basement, oversized 2 car garage, and a pool. She only has two kids and one vehicle and she never once used the pool. Due to her alcohol dependency she never did find a job, she lost her house to foreclosure, and yet blames my dad because he never paid the child support he was supposed to. It never occurred to her that she bought a home too big, or that she should've gotten a job to pay for it. That's the thing about people i've met who've lost their homes to foreclosure. They can't accept that they didn't have the right to buy a home just because someone was willing to give them the money. As far as i'm concerned these people deserve their loss and so do the companies who give them loans.

The next stories we're going to read are going to be about people who buy cars with 6 year loans and then wreck their car and use the insurance check for anything but car repairs and wind up having to pay for a car they can no longer drive for the next 5 and a half years.

grrrrrrrrrrr

[Khardis]

Originally "the pursuit of happiness" was the pursuit of property. Life Liberty and the pursuit of property. Only white males over 21 property owners could vote so to be a full citizen you also needed to own property. So its not off the mark. And renting sucks. I would rather **** up my plumbing myself than my drunk super.:D I would consider not being beholden to a landlord to be a step towards self determination. Though crazy high property taxes and owing a bank kinda defeats that.:mad:

btw. as I was posting Jehova witnesses came to my door. I opened it up in my underwear and saud "not interested, thanks!":lol:


That is Craaaaaaaazy high.:eek: Uh oh. Not looking good for the unwashed masses.

That dreams been over dude, Sadly enough :(


Yeah he pursuit of property is correct, but that doesnt mean literally a house. It means wealth and business. America was founded by businessmen, for businessmen. THe revolution was begun by...businessmen who were tired of England getting in on thier profits.

THe American dream is the freedom to have limited government and the freedom to become wealthy if you work for it. Not to own a duplex. The American dream is kickin for me, i've recently begun a small business and I am AMAZED at how easy it is to save and make money if you own a business. I Truly understand why so many people want to come here now.


I always thought the American Dream had something to do with Scarface. I dunno, that's what it said in the tagline anyway.

Thats not that far off actually. I mean maybe not the killing and the drug trafficing, but Tony Montana came from a communist country with a controlled economy where he was forced to work for nothing and own nothing, then he came to the US and he was able to pursue his destiny to its bloody shotgunblasttotheback end.


Owning your own home is an american dream. THE American dream is combonation of this coupled with the above mentioned.

Unfortnatly with property taxes and loan interests its harder to hold on to the owning your own home part. Often my family finds itself behind on house payments. $700 a month gets pricy after you through a few children iinto the mix.

An American dream I guess I can agree with, although its not really mine at this moment. I would rather own a successful business right now rather than a home since the business will take care of the home.

The American dream is the pursuit of freedoms to make yourself into something successful.


Pay your bills and live WITHIN IN YOUR MEANS.

The American dream IS NOT built on extended credit or bankruptsy.

I am salaried now at $52K plus a 1% total revenue (off of about $100K per month)--- My wife workd for less than me---

We have a nice 3 Bdr brick in the North Dallas suburbs-- own an SUV and an extended cab Ford PU...

We have cable..high speed internet.. and eat out about 4 times a week...

AND WE HAVE NO MONEY ISSUES...

live within your means, budget, and pay your bills-- this results in no foreclosre..

BTW we saved and put a $30K down payment on our home...

Sacrifice ? Yes..

Our stuff and no others? Hell yes.



"F" the unwashed masses. I came from a poor farm and I made it.

Slackers, whiners and fat b*tches be damned... I work for my piece!

:evil:

Exactly. I am doing my best to help me and my own. Screw the rest. Its thier obligation to help themselves.

[tju1973]

Owning your own home is an american dream. THE American dream is combonation of this coupled with the above mentioned.

Unfortnatly with property taxes and loan interests its harder to hold on to the owning your own home part. Often my family finds itself behind on house payments. $700 a month gets pricy after you through a few children iinto the mix.


I have FOUR kids, AND my mortgage is about $1200 per month. I pay $1100 in daycare per month plus a ton of child support to my ex wife...

We deal with i and pay our bills...

to each his own...

[Terran]

The American dream is the pursuit of freedoms to make yourself into something successful.


Im not entirely disagreeing with you here according to the things you said attached with this comment....but this sentence itself....?

I dont mean to sound facetious......but I was a bit bewildered by this comment....




The American dream is the pursuit of freedoms to make yourself into something successful.


That would mean that the American dream is completely dependent one what one considers success.......anything that allows this perceived success would then be the "freedoms" one would pursue...

Depending upon what one defines as "successful", in that statement, “successful” could mean anything......

This would mean whatever one individual considers a "freedom", and if they wish to pursue it because it could make them potentially successful, then it would be categorized as the "American dream"….

According to that statement this means that the Taliban movement is the American dream…..
communist movement is the American dream….
any various terrorist organization is the American dream….etc etc…..

because all of these groups pursue “freedoms” that establish themselves in positions that they would consider “successful”……

[Khardis]

Im not entirely disagreeing with you here according to the things you said attached with this comment....but this sentence itself....?

I dont mean to sound facetious......but I was a bit bewildered by this comment....




That would mean that the American dream is completely dependent one what one considers success.......anything that allows this perceived success would then be the "freedoms" one would pursue...

Depending upon what one defines as "successful", in that statement, “successful” could mean anything......

This would mean whatever one individual considers a "freedom", and if they wish to pursue it because it could make them potentially successful, then it would be categorized as the "American dream"….

According to that statement this means that the Taliban movement is the American dream…..
communist movement is the American dream….
any various terrorist organization is the American dream….etc etc…..

because all of these groups pursue “freedoms” that establish themselves in positions that they would consider “successful”……

I fail to see the connections you made to the taliban etc. Sounds mor elike youre reading too deeply into what I said. Waaaay too deeply.

Success in my words implied in parts economical and moral ways of success. For example, in the USA you can start and run a business and make a profit. You would be amazed at how much more difficult that is elsewhere in the world. Here though we are free to do it. Those rights serve to make that possible. If we can just stop the nutty tax crazy libs and socialists who want to "redistribute" wealth "equally" it will be a lasting American Dream.


I have FOUR kids, AND my mortgage is about $1200 per month. I pay $1100 in daycare per month plus a ton of child support to my ex wife...

We deal with i and pay our bills...

to each his own...

Heh I wish house payments were 700 bucks a month around here... shoot its 700 bucks a month just to rent a run down apartment :P My folks pay 1500 a month on thier mortgage.

[Terran]

I fail to see the connections you made to the taliban etc. Sounds mor elike youre reading too deeply into what I said. Waaaay too deeply.


Well the Taliban seeks “freedoms” that makes their movement more powerful which makes them feel like they have achieved moral and spiritual success….



Success in my words implied in parts economical and moral ways of success. For example, in the USA you can start and run a business and make a profit.


A poor example because you can start a business almost anywhere and experience “relative” success and make a “relative“ profit…if this wasn’t true the majority of the population would be unable to reproduce because they would be unable to support their offspring…yet the global population continues to grow...

Think about it this way....will you be able to put your children into a higher caste of US society through all your work keeping in mind inflation and other costs or will they be starting from the same caste position as you started from....

If your children start from the same caste as you do after all your work then your family line isn’t moving anyway up the pyramid....a permanent state of middle to lower position....


For example…..if you raise six kids successfully to a point where they can have their own kids and start supporting themselves how comparable is that to someone in Mexico/Iraq/Afghanistan raising six kids to the point where they can support their own kids that can support themselves…



Heh I wish house payments were 700 bucks a month around here... shoot its 700 bucks a month just to rent a run down apartment :P My folks pay 1500 a month on thier mortgage.

Jeeze! decent apartments in my neighborhood and immediate area go for 1000-1500 a month…..apartments!! Whatever keeps the people if their given area in their given place…..

[Khardis]

Well the Taliban seeks “freedoms” that makes their movement more powerful which makes them feel like they have achieved moral and spiritual success….

They dont seek freedom. They seek power. There is a difference. My freedom to own property doesnt force you to weak a burka and disallow you to dance.


A poor example because you can start a business almost anywhere and experience “relative” success and make a “relative“ profit…if this wasn’t true the majority of the population would be unable to reproduce because they would be unable to support their offspring…yet the global population continues to grow...

Wrong, you have obviously never talked to many businessmen from around the world. A "relative" profit isnt a profit if its "relative". Ask business owners in France or China.


Think about it this way....will you be able to put your children into a higher caste of US society through all your work keeping in mind inflation and other costs or will they be starting from the same caste position as you started from....
Luckily in the United States we dont have a Caste system. And by definition you cannot jump Castes FYI. Youre born and die into them.


If your children start from the same caste as you do after all your work then your family line isn’t moving anyway up the pyramid....a permanent state of middle to lower position.... Not sure where youre going with this, it seems though that you just like the sound of your own voice. Again, we dont have Castes in the US.



For example…..if you raise six kids successfully to a point where they can have their own kids and start supporting themselves how comparable is that to someone in Mexico/Iraq/Afghanistan raising six kids to the point where they can support their own kids that can support themselves…

What does this have to do with the conversation about the American Dream?





Jeeze! decent apartments in my neighborhood and immediate area go for 1000-1500 a month…..apartments!! Whatever keeps the people if their given area in their given place…..

Ooooh now I get to play the semantics game, I guess that would depend on your definition of "decent" I mean would a family of 6 living in a hovel in Indonesias comparative style be "decent" if they had blahblahblahblahblah...

[Terran]

Originally Posted by Terran
Well the Taliban seeks “freedoms” that makes their movement more powerful which makes them feel like they have achieved moral and spiritual success….


They dont seek freedom. They seek power. There is a difference. My freedom to own property doesnt force you to weak a burka and disallow you to dance.


They seek power to enforce lifestyles that they feel is the moral and right way to live. If you don’t think “American freedom” forces people within this country and around the world to live a certain lifestyle how many examples of this scenario would you need to consider it true…..I can think of at least five off the top of my head…..




Wrong, you have obviously never talked to many businessmen from around the world. A "relative" profit isnt a profit if its "relative". Ask business owners in France or China.



Wrong? How you can be so dismissive of a point but offer nothing to back up why you are so dismissive…I guess one can just say “Wrong you obviously just don’t know“? :rockbrow: ….Ever read Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America by by Barbara Ehrenreich


Essayist and cultural critic Barbara Ehrenreich has always specialized in turning received wisdom on its head with intelligence, clarity, and verve. With some 12 million women being pushed into the labor market by welfare reform, she decided to do some good old-fashioned journalism and find out just how they were going to survive on the wages of the unskilled--at $6 to $7 an hour, only half of what is considered a living wage. So she did what millions of Americans do, she looked for a job and a place to live, worked that job, and tried to make ends meet.
As a waitress in Florida, where her name is suddenly transposed to "girl," trailer trash becomes a demographic category to aspire to with rent at $675 per month. In Maine, where she ends up working as both a cleaning woman and a nursing home assistant, she must first fill out endless pre-employment tests with trick questions such as "Some people work better when they're a little bit high." In Minnesota, she works at Wal-Mart under the repressive surveillance of men and women whose job it is to monitor her behavior for signs of sloth, theft, drug abuse, or worse. She even gets to experience the humiliation of the urine test.
So, do the poor have survival strategies unknown to the middle class? And did Ehrenreich feel the "bracing psychological effects of getting out of the house, as promised by the wonks who brought us welfare reform?" Nah. Even in her best-case scenario, with all the advantages of education, health, a car, and money for first month's rent, she has to work two jobs, seven days a week, and still almost winds up in a shelter. As Ehrenreich points out with her potent combination of humor and outrage, the laws of supply and demand have been reversed. Rental prices skyrocket, but wages never rise. Rather, jobs are so cheap as measured by the pay that workers are encouraged to take as many as they can. Behind those trademark Wal-Mart vests, it turns out, are the borderline homeless. With her characteristic wry wit and her unabashedly liberal bent, Ehrenreich brings the invisible poor out of hiding and, in the process, the world they inhabit--where civil liberties are often ignored and hard work fails to live up to its reputation as the ticket out of poverty


I said
Think about it this way....will you be able to put your children into a higher caste of US society through all your work keeping in mind inflation and other costs or will they be starting from the same caste position as you started from....

Luckily in the United States we dont have a Caste system. And by definition you cannot jump Castes FYI. Youre born and die into them.
I guess “Caste” was too strong of a word …..but we have a growing Class system that is becoming increasingly more difficult to move up the ranks….
We got the homeless(mostly crazies)….the poor…..lower class….middle class….upper middle class…..the rich….and the super rich…..For the most part the taxes of this country and general society conventions and living expenses for various areas keep people in their class….people are born in a certain class and generally die as the same class….Very very few people change their class…..



Originally Posted by Terran
Think about it this way....will you be able to put your children into a higher caste of US society through all your work keeping in mind inflation and other costs or will they be starting from the same caste position as you started from....


Not sure where youre going with this, it seems though that you just like the sound of your own voice. Again, we dont have Castes in the US.

Well replace Caste with “class” and the point is still applicable……


I said
For example…..if you raise six kids successfully to a point where they can have their own kids and start supporting themselves how comparable is that to someone in Mexico/Iraq/Afghanistan raising six kids to the point where they can support their own kids that can support themselves…

What does this have to do with the conversation about the American Dream?

It has to do with relative “profit”….If your not at least a bit financially successful one wouldn’t be able to support kids…..




Jeeze! decent apartments in my neighborhood and immediate area go for 1000-1500 a month…..apartments!! Whatever keeps the people if their given area in their given place…..

Ooooh now I get to play the semantics game, I guess that would depend on your definition of "decent" I mean would a family of 6 living in a hovel in Indonesias comparative style be "decent" if they had blahblahblahblahblah...


I mean “decent”……this apartment complex near my house smells like urine in the hallways and in the elevators….only one elevator in the place works (18 floors)….A three bedroom place is this **** hole costs $1500 a month to live in….Its an apartment in a **** hole for $1500 a month the rooms are tiny as hell… I wasn’t trying to play a semantics game I was just trying to illustrate how living expenses generally reflect a cost that keeps people in their class position…..

[Cody]

you should see house rates here in florida TERRIBLE

[Bongholio]

oh its not just one!

bankruptcy of 22 lenders over the past two months

[Bongholio]

bump
1/3 the country foreclosed?
What about all the dummies who will be bankrupt
because they invested in this debt on the stock market
masquerading as "securities"

http://www.alternet.org/story/50120/