Quality of dawn 04's characters [Archive]

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Tied2thetracks

09-May-2007, 07:49 PM

I was thiking about the 04 the other day and realized that I couldn't remember any charater names. I got 3 or 4, but I couldnt remember Ving's guys.

Anna
CJ
I think the male lead was David. And Lewis.

I can rattel off Fran Peter Roger and Flyboy like nothing.

Fred Frank Burt Trash Scuz Suicide Tina Ernie Spider Tar Man Trash Casy and Chuck.

I could go on with other Zombie movies. I enjoyed 04 but it is a movie where I dont give a rats ass about teh characters.

DjfunkmasterG

09-May-2007, 08:26 PM

Philly_SWAT

09-May-2007, 08:38 PM

I understand exactly what you mean. In my opinion, there were too many characters in Dawn04, not giving enough time to develop any of the properly. Although, I dont think that the goal of the movie makers was to develop the characters. They wanted to make an "action zombie" movie, unlike GAR, who produced a great work of art. I think that Dawn04 was in fact a great action zombie movie, but no where near the level of greatness of Dawn78. Like you said, I cant remember a lot of those character names either, cuz I didnt care about them like I do about the characters in 78, and there were too many to even try to keep track.

Tied2thetracks

10-May-2007, 03:51 PM

Ving was Kenneth, if you couldn't remember that i question your fan support of both DAWNs. :p

Ana
Kenneth
Michael
CJ
Andre
Luda
Monica
Luis (Ana's Husband)
Bart
Terry
Frank (Nicole's father)
Nicole
Norma
Tucker
Steve
Glen
Chips (Dog)

Maybe I have a little less free time than you. When you start throwing in Tucker and Glen its kinda like best boy and key grip.

You forgot about that fat lady zombie that was played by a man(poorly).

bassman

10-May-2007, 04:11 PM

I can agree with that. Not only were the character's names quickly forgotten, but I really didn't give a damn about any of them. The only one that I kinda sided with was......*runs to IMDB.com*. Oh yeah...Michael.

This is one of my biggest complaints about the Dawn remake. It's like the writers and director just said "Who needs good characters.....we'll just throw in some fast action and hope it makes up for it."

Tied2thetracks

10-May-2007, 05:16 PM

MinionZombie

10-May-2007, 06:40 PM

Oh if you didn't see this coming you must have been out takin' a whizz...

*cracks knuckles*

Ahhhhh...*ahem*...

I thought the characters were piss poor, one-dimensional throw away gags with no depth whatsoever. At best there was Michael, who actually showed some sense ... that is until he blows his load and goes along with everybody else's retarded bus plan to appease the 13 year olds. :rolleyes:

Some of the characters literally never have their name said in the movie, particularly the blonde idiot who's only there to get her norks out and get sliced up. I think it's briefly mentioned in fleeting once, and I had to really look for that, so (as I wrote in my final year dissertation, which had a bit about Yawnorama04) she's literally there to fulfil a hollow and vapid role.

The dude with his daughter who's been bit and is gonna cark it, he comes in and within 10 minutes he's dead, I'm sorry (actually I'm not :D) but you can't have an emotional scene with someone you've only just met and don't give a shiite about ... and putting in the old chestnut of "he's got a wimpy daughter" just makes you go "ugh, puh-leeeeeze".

Then there's up-his-own-arse-with-selfishness Ving-a-ling's Kenneth or whatever he was called, coming in all "f*ck all y'all" :rolleyes: ... I mean, seriously...come the f*ck on my tits already...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

The nurse woman - she shags her husband in the shower to show they have a relationship ... wow, *slow claps*, and again - for an apparently smart lady, she's pretty thick to go yomping off with that sub-par A-Team plan.

Then there's the arrogant "I don't need nobody" cut n paste black gangsta ... ooooh, wow...like I haven't seen him everywhere. Throw in a pregnant token foreigner and an ever-so-annoying dick dribble 'sounds gay and you think he's gay, but still bangs no-name chicks to keep the kiddywinks watching' who has the amazing ability to be a completely useless and annoying f*cknut without getting the shiite beaten out of him.

Then you've got the "faggit" spouting redneck fresh outta high school moron security guard ... wow, the "yoof" are thick and useless, grrrrreat. At least CJ was a bit better.

Oh, then there's the pussy Liberal security guard who likes wiping his fingers on monitors as wimpy daughter cries a bit (meanwhile we couldn't give a bollocks as we've only met her), they suddenly have a Dawson's Creek time together - even though her father carked it and everyone's an Olympic Zombie now...riiiight.

And yep ... that bloody wimpy daughter going after that bloody dog...:mad:...f*ck me upside down that annoys the piss out of me. :rolleyes:

I've seen better characterisation cut out of the side of a cereal box.

*sigh* ahhhh...

Adamnelson

10-May-2007, 09:04 PM

I also found the characters in the remake of Dawn of the Dead to be very poorly developed. They also missed the blind consumerist streak that the characters in the original had that I felt was a key aspect of the films satirical stance.

capncnut

10-May-2007, 09:06 PM

Totally in agreement with you MZ, there's nothing I can add to that.

Apart from, "Tell him to get Burt Reynolds!" :lol:

Bongholio

10-May-2007, 09:16 PM

Cody

10-May-2007, 11:31 PM

Jesus MZ..hadda let some steam off?

MinionZombie

11-May-2007, 10:33 AM

Jesus MZ..hadda let some steam off?
I tell ya mate, it's a sauna in here. :D

Mutineer

14-May-2007, 03:43 AM

I thought the characters of D04 were fine even if some plot development went missing; i.e. CJ suddenly being cool for example

I loved Steve. I did not feel I needed to get to know him anymore than I did; he was an arrogant asshole with great sarcasm. Many of the charcters lacked true depth, but I did not need anymore than they gave me.

These characters had a believability factor. They came across as real and why would I get to know them any more than they got to know each other ?

Michael was cool; little tidbits that he worked at best buy, was a divorcee who loved being a father painted a clear enough picture of who he was. His selflessness towards the others also gave me insight into what kinfd of person he is.

Ving was your typical cop. He played it cool, quiet and badass, I know he had a bro at Fort Pastor and his relationship with Andy was like a surrogate for that

I don't know. I don't see the complete lack of depth for these chacrtes anymore than Is ee the layers on the orginal. I found the DAWN 78 character of Roger to be a complete clown. Just an unreal archetype

I found the bikers to be even worse; complete clowns and totally unreal in beahaivour. Much like the girl and the dog in 2004

-

It is no secret how much I enjoyed the 2004 and how much I do not idolize the original but saying the remake completely drops the ball makes me immediately think of Dawn 78's absurdities.
-

I disagree with not being able to be emotinally attached to Max Headrooms death. Then again, I'm a father so maybe it's relative.

Minion ? It sounds like you have some bias regarding this film and GAr's orginal. Your remarks seem almost personal.

But again, I'm not impressed with Dawn 78.

MinionZombie

14-May-2007, 10:18 AM

Minion ? It sounds like you have some bias regarding this film and GAr's orginal. Your remarks seem almost personal.

I could say the same with you and Yawn04, but it'd just be an empty statement.

Yes Dawn isn't perfect, it has some rough edges, but it's blatantly superior. The very fact it isn't some MTV videogame with lots of flashy colours and edits alone puts it far higher.

How could it be personal when it's a commonly held belief among the vast majority of fans and critics that the original blows the sh*tmake out of the water? :D

Rolfus

14-May-2007, 12:26 PM

dawn 04 had the typical cut and paste disater movie characters, but i really enjoyed it over all and michael and steves deaths i had some feeling for.

I like cannon fodder gota keep the killings up, if you like league of gentle men not the crap american movie but the great british comedy show you will not what i mean :)

dirtydwarf

14-May-2007, 05:55 PM

I would have liked to have seen Dawn04 the length of the original Dawn, then maybe the characters would have grown on us more which is what much of the length of the original was for. But I fail to see where the characters of Dawn04 were that cardboard (most of em anyways) and they were all head and shoulders above AND better than those created by THE WORSHIPPED ONE for Land of the Dead. Talk about worthless, stale characters.....I would have loved to bitch slapped Riley...

MinionZombie

14-May-2007, 06:04 PM

THE WORSHIPPED ONE

This attitude always confuses me whenever it's said by someone...this is Homepage of the Dead ... a website dedicated specifically to GAR's zombie films. :rolleyes:

dirtydwarf

14-May-2007, 06:07 PM

LOL..actually I meant that as a compliment to him, cause I do worship him, but I can see now it may look sarcastic...

MinionZombie

14-May-2007, 06:26 PM

LOL..actually I meant that as a compliment to him, cause I do worship him, but I can see now it may look sarcastic...
Whoops, my bad. :D

It's just that, as I insinuated in my reply, that I've seen it used before in an arsey manner rather than an honest manner. :)

jim102016

15-May-2007, 10:39 PM

Dawn of the Dead 2004 was f*cking pathetic as the remake of Day will be. Don't expect much and you won't be disappointed. Why buy a sh*t sandwich and then complain about the smell when you know the contents came out of someone's ass?

Andy

15-May-2007, 11:05 PM

for an apparently smart lady, she's pretty thick to go yomping off with that sub-par A-Team plan.

LOL i thought i was the only one who found himself thinking of The A-Team when they were doing that :D

DjfunkmasterG

16-May-2007, 12:27 AM

totally forgettable character interactions
why try to remember their names
all they were was a bunch of sarcastic,me me me
ti* babies or cosmopolitan reading getting in touch
with feminine side do*chebags

Well then Zack Snyder did a perfect job of showing what is exactly todays culture and exactly how the majority of Americans are acting. :D

Everything everyone is bitching about is exactly what is wrong with todays culture and what is on display 24/7. If that isn't truth in motion pictures I have no idea what is... :confused:

MinionZombie

16-May-2007, 09:34 AM

LOL i thought i was the only one who found himself thinking of The A-Team when they were doing that :D
:lol: It was the first thing I thought of when I first saw the movie ... and The A-Team was way better as well.

At least they pitied fools, rather than went along with their retarded "let's go to a boat to sail to an island that's inhabited by zombies". :rolleyes:

dirtydwarf

16-May-2007, 12:35 PM

hmmmm......A-Team vs Zombies...I like it. This has possibilities....:D

Why buy a sh*t sandwich and then complain about the smell when you know the contents came out of someone's ass?

ewww.....I was eating a peanut butter sandwich when I read that......nutty peanut butter no less.....

:eek:

bassman

16-May-2007, 12:38 PM

Well then Zack Snyder did a perfect job of showing what is exactly todays culture and exactly how the majority of Americans are acting. :D

Everything everyone is bitching about is exactly what is wrong with todays culture and what is on display 24/7. If that isn't truth in motion pictures I have no idea what is... :confused:

In a way, you're right. But in a film it doesn't work because you have to be able to invest in the characters. In Dawn04 that just doesn't happen. Cardboard.....

darth los

06-Jun-2007, 03:23 AM

MinionZombie

06-Jun-2007, 09:37 AM

I was hoping this was just a trend, but it seems that movies which lack character development is fast becoming the norm. As has been said on this forum before, the target demographic these days simply does not have the patience.:(
With certain movies (like Zack Snyder flicks :rolleyes:), sure, there's bollock-all character development, unless it involves sex. :rolleyes:

However, just look at Batman Begins, or the Spider-Man movies - lots of character based stuff in those, heck, look at Pirates 3, the middle hour is basically all talking! :eek:

So I don't think the situation is quite as bad as you might think, but yes, there are morons in the world and there are moronic producers/movies/viewers/whatever out there...

AcesandEights

06-Jun-2007, 01:05 PM

Each generation has its lowbrow entertainment and motion pictures have had portions of their their industry fall into this category since the medium came into being. It's one piece of what movies are about, but just one piece.

darth los

06-Jun-2007, 05:32 PM

I'd have to agree with Mz and Aces. I guess now that i think about it this happens with music as well. Every era has it's great songs and then there are "pop" songs which just are tailored to the target teenie bopper/younger demographic of their time. These are the same songs that 10 years later you're like "WTF made this song so popular? I just don't get it." I guess these are the "pop" movies of our time.:rockbrow:

MinionZombie

06-Jun-2007, 09:33 PM

darth los

06-Jun-2007, 09:59 PM

Indeed, these films won't last the test of time, and indeed, Yawnorama04 will fade into the distance in due time, but GAR's superb original will remain a cinematic milestone, a key note in the annals of horror history.

I like to tell it how it is. Gar has had more than a few turds. That being said you can't name many other directors that have two classics under their belts the caliber of Dawn and NOTLD. That puts him in very exclusive company. NOTLD for all intents and purposes created a genre and the template for zombie films. Dawn was an Expansion on NOTLD and the best film the genre has ever produced. I feel it is so good that I'd put it up against great all time great films from other genres. What do you think?

MinionZombie

07-Jun-2007, 06:30 AM

Well, if memory serves, on one of those "100 best/top/whatever" lists that Channel 4 like to do so much - this one I'm thinking of being 100 Greatest Films - Dawn of the Dead was in there with all the other genres. Can't remember wher it was placed, my memory is fuzzy on that, but I do remember it being in there, and that's fan votes too.

ash

07-Jun-2007, 12:02 PM

darth los

07-Jun-2007, 12:21 PM

I know the characters are awful, but I still find Dawn04 entertaining. The gore is top-notch, and the zombie action scenes are entertaining. Then, of course, I don't have a Dawn04 poster on my wall as a testament to the fact that the original is infinately better.

Your right that the original is infinitely better. As for the remake, it's well documented that i like it better tha nLOTD. Which goes to show how much i dislike that film. However, it's painfully obvious that the remake could have been so much more if things like storyline/character development were fleshed out more.

zombieslayer

07-Jun-2007, 01:47 PM

coma

07-Jun-2007, 03:42 PM

I like to tell it how it is. Gar has had more than a few turds. That being said you can't name many other directors that have two classics under their belts the caliber of Dawn and NOTLD. That puts him in very exclusive company. NOTLD for all intents and purposes created a genre and the template for zombie films. Dawn was an Expansion on NOTLD and the best film the genre has ever produced. I feel it is so good that I'd put it up against great all time great films from other genres. What do you think?
Some GAR films are better than others, but I dont think any of them are turds. Maybe unsuccessful or below average, but not turds. Children of the Living Dead is a turd, if you see what I mean. So I respectfully disagree.:)

NOTLD is more than a genre film. It had many elements making it transcend genre. Though there is nothing wrong with Genre films. Hitchcock for example and many of the other great Noir films.
NOTLD has
Bold and radical casting choices. Duane Jones may have "been the best actor" amongst GARs pals, but it was still radical. A lesser filmaker would've made the actor who played Tom the lead.

The Gore. At the time sexual content was the final frontier. But Gore and violence really was, to put Gore in the context of a high mined picture was unusual and influenced many other films that broke barriers. HG lewis may have been first but that was Porn level fims. NOTLD'S was appropriate and non gratuitous. It also wasnt sadistic like the later Wild Bunch, for example, and something like LAst House On the Left.

The ending. That was at the end of the production code and the Studio system. A downbeat ending almost NEVER happened and that ending was the most downbeat of all.

I really love the Photography. To me, greatly influenced by Hitchcock and very sophisticated for any film of the era, never mind Genre films

also the non gimmicky use of electronic music. Anybody know who made the Synth music. Its not from a library. I would love to know more about that.

The Photo Montage at the end was unique and maybe still is. The structure and movement of the dialouge and scenes is above and beyond other genre films until that time. Most other Genre films in 68 were cheapo exploitation (like Giant bugs) or period victorian films like Hammer. You hold NOTLD up to any film of that period and it is more like The French New Wave than any Hollywood or American exploitation film.

I do agree that even with only NOTLD and DOTD, GAR would have secured his place in the pantheon of Classic filmmakers. Nothing he could do could diminish the greatness of those two films.

Dawn 04 is a regular Genre film. Saying the Zombie action was really cool is actually not much of an endorsement. The Characterization was inconsistent when it actually existed. Cardboard cutouts all. A Richie Rich comic from the 70s has better fleshed out Characters. As a stand alone film DOTD04 was Light entertainment with a sub par script. Pretty much everything but the script was good. Decent acting, good cinematography, Great FX. But the characters were lame and thin. If it was about ANDY, it would've been way better. But it wasnt. A MCDonalds movie, imo. Tastes good, but has no nutritional value and is inedible when cold.

darth los

11-Jun-2007, 05:01 AM

Some GAR films are better than others, but I dont think any of them are turds. Maybe unsuccessful or below average, but not turds. Children of the Living Dead is a turd, if you see what I mean. So I respectfully disagree.:)

NOTLD is more than a genre film. It had many elements making it transcend genre. Though there is nothing wrong with Genre films. Hitchcock for example and many of the other great Noir films.
NOTLD has
Bold and radical casting choices. Duane Jones may have "been the best actor" amongst GARs pals, but it was still radical. A lesser filmaker would've made the actor who played Tom the lead.

The Gore. At the time sexual content was the final frontier. But Gore and violence really was, to put Gore in the context of a high mined picture was unusual and influenced many other films that broke barriers. HG lewis may have been first but that was Porn level fims. NOTLD'S was appropriate and non gratuitous. It also wasnt sadistic like the later Wild Bunch, for example, and something like LAst House On the Left.

The ending. That was at the end of the production code and the Studio system. A downbeat ending almost NEVER happened and that ending was the most downbeat of all.

I really love the Photography. To me, greatly influenced by Hitchcock and very sophisticated for any film of the era, never mind Genre films

also the non gimmicky use of electronic music. Anybody know who made the Synth music. Its not from a library. I would love to know more about that.

The Photo Montage at the end was unique and maybe still is. The structure and movement of the dialouge and scenes is above and beyond other genre films until that time. Most other Genre films in 68 were cheapo exploitation (like Giant bugs) or period victorian films like Hammer. You hold NOTLD up to any film of that period and it is more like The French New Wave than any Hollywood or American exploitation film.

I do agree that even with only NOTLD and DOTD, GAR would have secured his place in the pantheon of Classic filmmakers. Nothing he could do could diminish the greatness of those two films.

Dawn 04 is a regular Genre film. Saying the Zombie action was really cool is actually not much of an endorsement. The Characterization was inconsistent when it actually existed. Cardboard cutouts all. A Richie Rich comic from the 70s has better fleshed out Characters. As a stand alone film DOTD04 was Light entertainment with a sub par script. Pretty much everything but the script was good. Decent acting, good cinematography, Great FX. But the characters were lame and thin. If it was about ANDY, it would've been way better. But it wasnt. A MCDonalds movie, imo. Tastes good, but has no nutritional value and is inedible when cold.

I never meant to say that night was i genre film. What i meant was that before NOTLD there was nothing else out there even close to it. It was so different that it deserved it's own class of films (thus it's own genre). The horror films f that era had nothing on NOTLD. The subsequent horror films in the 70's and 80's were just following the path that GAR trailblazed. As it pertains to DOTD, that's how you make a sequel!! It did everything the first one did only bigger and better and was no less socially relevant.