Are we (& most fledgling species) doomed!?

[Neil]

I'm wondering if we're dooming!

Think of all the resources we're consuming. Every block of metal, coal, natural stone etc etc... None of it can really be replaced.

I can't help but think we have a window of opportunity. We have this wealth of natural resources in which to step up to the 'next level'. And if we don't manage to make that next step we never will...

Once all the oil and gas an metals have gone, we simply won't be able to kick off a space-fairing culture, and will be stuck on earth in some odd 1900-2100 culture...

I'm wondering if this a general issue (across most civilisations)? That beings are too concerned about driving their vehicle to a fast food joint and putting their tubs of food in a freezer - to such a degree by the time we grow up enough to realise we need to step off this planet to continue progressing, it's too late...

[DVW5150]

Yes it seems human beings are doomed.
Your observations are correct.
Like I had said before,"Sorry Mankind, time for a swim.":elol:

[EvilNed]

There's lots of untapped energy sources, I believe. Besides, at the rate mankind is advancing, I can't even imagine where we'll be in 100 years.

[fartpants]

i dont think we will be the here for much longer, either the earth will flood or we will blow the planet up or get hit by a comet... cheerful thoughts

[Neil]

There's lots of untapped energy sources, I believe. Besides, at the rate mankind is advancing, I can't even imagine where we'll be in 100 years.

Yes there are... But to make use of 'resource 2', you need the more basic 'resourse 1'.

My concern is we'll use up some of the finite resources we have that then basically means we cannot move on...

Imagine if/when we use all the oil up... Aviation stops!

[fartpants]

no it just means they will have to dig out the plans for a usable electric engine the oil companys have been sitting on for the last 50 years...

[Danny]

honestly, if theres life out there, i realy hope they never have the displeasure to meet us thats my 2 cents on humanity.

[EvilNed]

If there's intelligent life out there, and they've got emotions, then they're probably as big of assholes as we are.

[Danny]

i dunno, were are a type of monkye after all, and if youve ever had crap thrown at ya at the zoo youll know one thing.
all apes are asseholes.:lol:

[EvilNed]

Infact, if they've got intelligence and basic needs, then they're probably assholes too... Emotions doesn't play into it.

Wouldn't it be wierd if aliens had no emotions? man what dull lives they must live.

[_liam_]

i think we'll survive whatever happens, short of a planet killing asteroid - weve survived wars, plagues, freakish weather...all sorts.

things are in a bit of a state at the moment but you never know what's around the corner. look how screwed we seemed during ww2 or the cuban missile crisis - these things tend to blow over

[Terran]

There was an article this month in New Scientist Magizine titled "Earth Audit: We are using up minerals at an alarming rate. How long before they run out?"

The article had a lot of information that I wont bore everyone here with ....but its interesting how fast some of this stuff is going to run out...and its wierd to think what we will do with out some of these materials....


These are how many years we have left on a variety of materials....

The figure to the left is if the world continues to consume at todays rate.....the figure to the right is if the world consumes at half the US consumption rate.




Aluminium (transport, electrical, consumer durables)
1027 years: 510 Years

Zinc (galvanising)
46 years: 34 Years

Uranium (weapons, power stations)
59 Years: 19 Years

Tin (cans, solder)
40 Years: 17 Years

Tantalum (cellphones, camera lenses)
116 Years: 20 Years

Silver (jewellery, catalytic converters)
29 Years: 9 years

Platinum (jewellery, catalysts, fuel cells for cars)
360 years: 42 years

Phosphorus (fertiliser, animal feed)
345 Years: 142 Years

Nickel (Batteries, turbine blades)
90 years: 57 Years

Lead (Lead pipes, Batteries)
42 Years: 8 Years!

Indium (LCDS)
13 Years: 4 Years !

Gold (Jewellery, Dental, Computing)
45 Years: 36 Years

Copper (wire, coins, plumbing)
61 Years: 38 Years

Chromium (Chrome plating)
143 Years: 40 Years

Antimony (drugs)
30 years: 13 Years


These Figures do not take into account changes in demand due to new technologies.


Theres a side note that says

If Demand grows some key resources will be exhausted more quickly if predicted technologies appear and the population grows.


Antimony 15-20 years
Hafnium~10 years
Indium 5-10 Years
Platinum 15 Years
Silver 15-20 Years
Tantalum 20-30 Years
Uranium 30-40 Years
Zinc 20-30 Years

[MissJacksonCA]

I agree we're fast and furiously digging our own grave. We wont admit in global warming and we aren't working harder towards ensuing a future for human beings. We're kinda like a planet full of creatures that destroy every last rescource and completely wreck the planet dooming it for all time before the mother ship beams us up and takes us to another planet mum wants us to destroy.

[_liam_]

i read that new scientist article. twas rather "wtf". demand will grow

[Eyebiter]

A few things to consider

#1 - How long will humanity continue at it's current population level? It took until just after 1800 to reach 1 billion human population. We hit 4 billion around 1975. 6 Billion at the year 2000. According to the 2007 CIA factbook 211,090 people are born every day. Some third world nations have 50% + of their population under the age of 18.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population


Often in nature you have a circumstance where a specific species becomes dominant and is found across the entire continent or ecosystem. With population pressures suddenly an event happens - meteor strike, plague, or disease comes along and takes out 90% + of the population. Nature's means of balance. Who is to say the same thing won't happen to humanity?


#2 - With increasing population and demand for resources - food, fresh water, land, minerals, industry there is bound to be conflict. We in the first world enjoy a certain standard of living. How far are we willing to go as a people to maintain this?

- Perhaps invade and occupy a resource rich third world region to exploit it?
- Destabilize an unfriendly government to put in a more friendly puppet?
- Indirectly encourage conflict in third world regions to keep the population disorganized and unable to resist these neo-colonization efforts?

#3 - Assuming a plague doesn't decimate the human population or large wars don't solve the problem, there is always the holy grail of science to look forward to.

- Geothermal taps - getting energy from the core of the earth
- Clean Fusion power as an alternative to fission nuclear reactors.
- Nanotechnology - the ability to dump a cylinder of nanites on a garbage pile and have the tiny machines follow a set blueprint to manufacture a new item.
- Gravity drive for space ship travel would allow for the development of large spaceships with a clean drive system. Once we as a species have inexpensive heavy lift access to orbit, then exploiting the resources of the moon and passing asteroids becomes a possibility.

[MikePizzoff]

Don't just think of our natural resources, guys. Also think about the endangered species that gets eradicated every hour due to the tearing down of rainforests, people hunting for food or sport, pollution, etc. It WILL eventually through off the balance of the entire ecosystem around the world.

No, I'm not vegetarian or vegan but, yes, I do care about animals, especially the endangered ones that a lot of people don't seem to care if they become extinct or not.

Mankind will pay.

[_liam_]

#2 - With increasing population and demand for resources - food, fresh water, land, minerals, industry there is bound to be conflict. We in the first world enjoy a certain standard of living. How far are we willing to go as a people to maintain this?

- Perhaps invade and occupy a resource rich third world region to exploit it?
- Destabilize an unfriendly government to put in a more friendly puppet?
- Indirectly encourage conflict in third world regions to keep the population disorganized and unable to resist these neo-colonization efforts?

heh, we (US/UK) have been pretty much doing that for the past century anyway.

i think nanotechnology will either save us or really screw us over. yep we could turn rubbish into fuel & food - but just imagine weaponised nanotechnology :eek:

[Danny]

i can see it now, the moon'l be a giant white applecore in the sky when were done doing what us locusts do best.

[_liam_]

i can see it now, the moon'l be a giant white applecore in the sky when were done doing what us locusts do best.

that sounds like william s burroughs :lol:

[Terran]

i can see it now, the moon'l be a giant white applecore in the sky when were done doing what us locusts do best.

There is a huge titanium deposit on the moon.....

and thats one of the resources we will be running out of pretty soon.....:D

And hell if we are worried about reducing the mass of the moon and messing with its orbit....we can replace the mass of the titanium with an equal mass of unusable garbage.... :)


i read that new scientist article. twas rather "wtf". demand will grow

Sweet!.....someone else who reads this magizine....

Its my favorite thing I have a subscription to....

[EvilNed]

I never took into account that the hugely growing population will also increase demand on stuff. Oh well, I hope you guys are looking forward to another great depression!

[Kaos]

Sweet!.....someone else who reads this magizine....

Its my favorite thing I have a subscription to....

I don't subscribe to it, but I follow Science Daily: http://www.sciencedaily.com/

[Terran]

I don't subscribe to it, but I follow Science Daily: http://www.sciencedaily.com/

Hmm cool site....I just linked it...thanks!

The first thing I read from the site was the article about some guy turning heat into sound and the sound into electricity.... Neat!
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070603225026.htm

[Kaos]

Hmm cool site....I just linked it...thanks!

The first thing I read from the site was the article about some guy turning heat into sound and the sound into electricity.... Neat!
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070603225026.htm
One thing I have noticed is that it has been years since anyone published anything about the teleportation experiments that are still in place. They did photons, then atoms, then everything went silent. I suspect a CONSPIRACY!!!!:shifty:

[Danny]

Sweet!.....someone else who reads this magizine....

Its my favorite thing I have a subscription to....

allways more of a fortean times and paranormal monthly me-self.

[_liam_]

One thing I have noticed is that it has been years since anyone published anything about the teleportation experiments that are still in place. They did photons, then atoms, then everything went silent. I suspect a CONSPIRACY!!!!:shifty:

might have just run out of cash or something, like the mo-hole project.
i used to think theyd found aliens or demons or something under the crust of the earth, turns out they just ran out of bank

[Danny]

least thats what the molemen told them to say, via there surface world emisary, ronnie corbet:lol:

[_liam_]

:lol:
magister corbett of the untermensch

everyone should read new scientist, its like fortean times except the stuff in it actually happens! some fascinating articles, it veers from incredibly uplifting and optimistic to really bleak and depressing. good stuff

[Tricky]

I think vladimir putin is going to trigger off scorched earth,the papers are starting to take his sabre rattling seriously now & are referring to him as a tyrant,welcome to the new cold war guys :(

[EvilNed]

I think vladimir putin is going to trigger off scorched earth,the papers are starting to take his sabre rattling seriously now & are referring to him as a tyrant,welcome to the new cold war guys :(

Scorched earth? That's when you burn all the land in your enemies wake so they can't live off the land... You sure you're not thinking of something else?

[Tricky]

Scorched earth? That's when you burn all the land in your enemies wake so they can't live off the land... You sure you're not thinking of something else?

Im talking mutual assured destruction,meaning its scorched for all of us,i used the wrong terminology :o

[Mike70]

i am a bit more hopeful. i am not ruling out a collapse or step backward at all but i think humans can acheive great things and one day travel to the stars.

the metals worry me more than fossil fuels.

fossil fuels can run out. there would be temporary chaos - then adaptation, people would move on to other things. in fact, far before oil runs out i think it will be a thing of the past and passe. do you really think that some of the most giant corps on planet earth - GM, toyota, honda, ford, exxon, shell, BP, etc. are simply going to say "gee oil's all gone, let's call it a day." HELL no they will find alt fuels, alt ways of doing business and alt ways of making cars.

anyone worrying that gold running out is going to destroy civilization is living in an intestinally based reality. all of the uses of gold in industry can be performed by other, more common metals. the whole monetary thing i think is one of the great feats of human stupidity. why is gold still so valuable? it is not, in any way, tied to the value of money in the western world - there is NO gold standard. ft. knox could be full of gold or empty - it would make no difference monetarily. the dollar is worth a dollar because the US govt says it is - period. there is no connection between gold and the value of the dollar.

[Danny]

i allways firgured a metal was priced on how f-in' rare it is, colour me stupid.:|

[Mike70]

i allways firgured a metal was priced on how f-in' rare it is, colour me stupid.:|


true in most cases BUT there are metals that are much rarer than gold that are not lusted after in the manner gold is. i am also speaking of gold's former ties to the value of money. there isn't a gold standard anymore, the value of the dollar has nothing to do with how much gold is worth. so i guess what i am getting at is i don't understand (never have, never will) the intense madness that seems to infect most people about gold.

if all the gold in the world was used up- what damn difference would it make? absolutely none at all. now apply that to something far more useful, more necessary (like aluminum, iron, copper or nickel) and we are totally screwed.

[Terran]

if all the gold in the world was used up- what damn difference would it make?

Theres a lot of things that gold is used for!....it isnt just jewerly and money



Modern industrial uses include dentistry and electronics, where gold has traditionally found use because of its good resistance to oxidative corrosion.
Gold does not react with most chemicals, but is attacked by chlorine, fluorine, aqua regia and cyanide.

Dentistry. Gold alloys are used in restorative dentistry, especially in tooth restorations, such as crowns and permanent bridges. The gold alloys' slight malleability facilitates the creation of a superior molar mating surface with other teeth and produces results that are generally more satisfactory than those produced by the creation of porcelain crowns. The use of gold crowns in more prominent teeth such as incisors is favored in some cultures and discouraged in others.

In photography, Gold toners are used to shift the colour of silver bromide black and white prints towards brown or blue tones, or to increase their stability. Used on sepia-toned prints, gold toners produce red tones. Kodak publish formulae for several types of gold toners, which use gold as the chloride (Kodak, 2006)

Electronics. The concentration of free electrons in gold metal is 5.90×1022 cm-3. Gold is highly conductive to electricity, and has been used for electrical wiring in some high energy applications (silver is even more conductive per volume, but gold has the advantage of corrosion resistance). For example, gold electrical wires were used during some of the Manhattan Project's atomic experiments, but large high current silver wires were used in the calutron isotope separator magnets in the project.
Though gold is attacked by free chlorine, its good conductivity and general resistance to oxidation and corrosion in other environments (including resistance to non-chlorinated acids) has led to its widespread industrial use in the electronic era as a thin layer coating electrical connectors of all kinds, thereby ensuring good connection. For example, gold is used in the connectors of the more expensive electronics cables, such as audio, video and USB cables. The benefit of using gold over other connector metals such as tin in these applications, is highly debated. Gold connectors are often criticized by audio-visual experts as unnecessary for most consumers and seen as simply a marketing ploy. However, the use of gold in other applications in electronic sliding contacts in highly humid or corrosive atmospheres, and in use for contacts with a very high failure cost (certain computers, communications equipment, spacecraft, jet aircraft engines) remains very common, and is unlikely to be replaced in the near future by any other metal.
Besides sliding electrical contacts, gold is also used in electrical contacts because of its resistance to corrosion, electrical conductivity, ductility and lack of toxicity.[3] Switch contacts are generally subjected to more intense corrosion stress than are sliding contacts.

Colloidal gold (Colloidal sols of gold nanoparticles) in water are intensely red - colored, and can be made with tightly-controlled particle sizes up to a few tens of nm across. Colloidal gold is used in research applications in medicine, biology and materials science. The technique of immunogold labeling exploits the ability of the gold particles to adsorb protein molecules onto their surfaces. Colloidal gold particles coated with specific antibodies can be used as probes for the presence and position of antigens on the surfaces of cells (Faulk and Taylor 1979). In ultrathin sections of tissues viewed by electron microscopy, the immunogold labels appear as extremely dense round spots at the position of the antigen (Roth et al. 1980). Colloidal gold is also the form of gold used as gold paint on ceramics prior to firing.
Gold, or alloys of gold and palladium, are applied as conductive coating to biological specimens and other non-conducting materials such as plastics and glass to be viewed in a scanning electron microscope. The coating, which is usually applied by sputtering with an argon plasma, has a triple role in this application. Gold's very high electrical conductivity drains electrical charge to earth, and its very high density provides stopping power for electrons in the SEM's electron beam, helping to limit the depth to which the electron beam penetrates the specimen. This improves definition of the position and topography of the specimen surface and increases the spatial resolution of the image. Gold also produces a high output of secondary electrons when irradiated by an electron beam, and these low-energy electrons are the most commonly-used signal source used in the scanning electron microscope.

As gold is a good reflector of both infrared and visible light, it is used for the protective coatings on many artificial satellites and in infrared protective faceplates in thermal protection suits and astronauts' helmets.

Gold is used as the reflective layer on some high-end CDs.
The isotope gold-198, (half-life: 2.7 days) is used in some cancer treatments and for treating other diseases.

[Danny]

huh. i allways had more of an affinity for silver meself.:)

[Cody]

^^^ lies.

[darth los]

honestly, if theres life out there, i realy hope they never have the displeasure to meet us thats my 2 cents on humanity.

That's why UFO'S never actually land hells. :D

[Danny]

they just come for the siteseeing but when the local colour arrive they get the fook outta orbit:lol:

[mista_mo]

i'll be dead by then anyway.

We need better sources of energy...oil is just so..messy....


and don't automatically assume that every possible alien species isn't an arsehole..seriously...i'd imagine that most are more or less the same as us in this way...if they have conscious thought and emotions they'd respond the same way we do, if not more extremely (due to scientific advancements, or "evolution" which could lead them to have increased emotions compared to us)

but this is all anouther topic in itself.