How would you react to this?

[MissJacksonCA]

I'm just curious since most of the people here are of the male persuasion... how do you feel about prenups? An agreement drawn up pre-marriage that says something generally to the effect of ... this is whats yours when we divorce if we divorce... this is that you will get and nothing more...

Bear in mind they're negotiable but its doubtful that you'll get half of everything and of course some can be nullified if you're lucky but just in general... if your woman/man gave you one how would you react? Would it be over then and there? Or would you say... hey sure!

[Danny]

in a word horrifying.

"uh yeah so i love you enough to marry you, but just in case that girl in the office makes a move on me and im bored of you, lets sign this, it probably wont happen but..." great way to start a marriage huh?, really says you care.:rolleyes:

[MissJacksonCA]

I meant as a man how would you feel if your girlfriend/fiancee approached you with one?

[darth los]

That's assuming that love is the only component in a marriage. Ask any married couple and they'll tell you that it takes a whole lot more than love to make a marriage work. Marriage is a series of arrangemnts anyway. Look at the statistics, one out of every 2 marriages fail, it's just the truth however ugly or anti idealistic it may be. Ask those 50% percent of men who didn't get a prenup who are now getting a divorce if they wish they had done so and i doubt that very few of them would say that they don't regret it. No matter how far we have come in terms of gender equality in this country the fact remains that when it comes to divorces and child custody disputes men regularly get taken to the cleaners. All my professors are lawyers and they'll even tell you you'd be a fool not to get one. Sad but true. There are many men who stay in a loveless marriage for years because they know they'll lose their shirts. There's an old saying when divorce lawyers counsel their clients: It's cheaper to keep em'. As it pertains to how i would feel, hey it's just business. Let's get it out of the way so we can get on with our lives together. If 2 people really love each other and really don't have money in the back of their minds it really shouldn't matter anyway.

[MissJacksonCA]

From my experience being a child of divorce growing up in what I felt was the divorce capital of the state of California... the wealthier of the two in the marriage is the one who wins. The dissolution of my parents marriage ended in 98% going to my dad and 2% that would've gone to my mom but somehow she got charged for damage to the home that we lived in (normal wear and tear mind you) and wound up not getting that 2% in the end and to this day owes my dad money lol... its funny in retrospect. Later she went on to marry another man who took her to the cleaners too... his house burned down with all her furniture in it and all her belongings in it and she was awarded nothing... she got nothing from the insurance company and nothing from the divorce except for a $500 a month alimony and child support thing that she never got because he got a brain tumor and yaada yaada... bottom line... she had a bad attorney both times.

I can't believe that the divorce rate is 1 out of 2 marriages fail elsewhere i the world. But I do agree that marriage is more than just about love. If I get married i'm totally asking for a prenup that says this is whats mine and you'll never get it. From my experience knowing a lot of divorced people I'm now a stickler. If I buy an item in a furniture store that goes into a home my husband and I share... guess what? I'm keeping that recipt and showing I paid for it and i'm leaving that marriage with it when we're done.

I've also seen a few prenups go out the window though... that scares me!

[darth los]

From my experience being a child of divorce growing up in what I felt was the divorce capital of the state of California... the wealthier of the two in the marriage is the one who wins. The dissolution of my parents marriage ended in 98% going to my dad and 2% that would've gone to my mom but somehow she got charged for damage to the home that we lived in (normal wear and tear mind you) and wound up not getting that 2% in the end and to this day owes my dad money lol... its funny in retrospect. Later she went on to marry another man who took her to the cleaners too... his house burned down with all her furniture in it and all her belongings in it and she was awarded nothing... she got nothing from the insurance company and nothing from the divorce except for a $500 a month alimony and child support thing that she never got because he got a brain tumor and yaada yaada... bottom line... she had a bad attorney both times.


Well to be fair about it, it all depends if the state your in is a community property state or not. Plus every state has their own laws on the books. So the way cases are decided in New York could very well turn out much different in CA. It's funny because we both are only expressing what we've seen in our respective states and we're more than likely both right.

[MissJacksonCA]

If I signed a prenup and me hubster decides he prefers his secretary to me... I would sue for alienation of affection if he doesn't give me more than my prenup agreement...

South Carolina is the place to be if you're a woman divorcing a man of any type of wealth or poverty. My coworker was dating a man who was divorcing his wife... the judge ordered him to pay nearly half his earnings every month to his ex for child support but then he lost his job so he refused to pay... to which the judge told him she'd put him into jail if he didn't get a new job and pay up... my coworker of course felt that it was ridiculous that the judge would order him to do so because she didn't realize he lost the job for having sex with his coworker on company time and that there are men and women who will get fired in order to not pay child support. I thought that was so funny... the dude was trash but hey he wound up paying lol

[darth los]

Pay attention guys !!! :eek:

[Debbieangel]

I would like to know whatever happened to love and working at a marriage everyday?It takes alot to stay married, even more so nowadays it seems. I just don't get it? Have I grown too old? Is love an ideal?
I don't think so, I really don't, you have to work at it like you do anything else you really really really want in life!
I really do think we have become a throw away society from our throw garbage to throw away appliances, cause they aren't made to last for more than a few years if that. Is that the way it is for marriage now too?
Kids I don't believe that for one minute! lLife is a struggle from birth to death and marriage isn't anything different!
It takes work to keep a marriage alive, its the little things you do for each other every day. Don't think it dont count when you pick up after yourself or maybe do those few dishes in the sink for her, Watch a chick flick she wants you to watch cause she loves it so much and wants to share it with you. It does mean alot!
And women learning maybe UGH! football plays to watch with your hubby it's all in the name of love!
Prenuptial agreements not in my vocabulary! For him or for me! It's a 50/50 deal ok like right now if I were to win the state lottery its my hubbys just the same as it is mine..we would have a blast together!
Prenup PLEZZZZ!!!!:lol:

[MissJacksonCA]

I used to think love was all it would take to make a relationship/marriage work. Then I realized I could be traded in for a better model. Since then I've been bitter and realized something else... I dont hate my ex for dumping me ... you can't control who you love. I mean you can control them if you're manipulative I suppose I mean to say you can't choose who you fall for. But like many things it takes a lot of work. Its like a car. Every now and then it needs to be tweaked and repaired but if you treat it respectfully then you should be able to make it work and keep it til ya die. But you're right... people throw away relationships these days like they're a used kleenix. Its a shame but a regular occurrence.

I learned football to make my bf happy and to be able to engage him in sports talk... sure I became the envy of his friends whose wives and gfs didn't bother... but what did he do for me? Did he learn tennis or watch a horror movie? Nope... love is a two way street but both people have to put in equal effort or you'll end up divorcing, breaking up, or living in a loveless relationship like me =) It would be nice to find someone who would put in equal effort but because I think people are so superficial about relationships I figure what i've got isn't that bad...

:evil:

[AcesandEights]

Prenups, like the more recent idea of a 'starter marriage' are helping to further cheapen relationships. Hey, you're a millionaire...maybe you want a prenup, I'm not even going to touch the idea, because it's so far outside my frame of referrence, but really what the average person wants to do to protect yourself is not get married too young (in our post-industrial, pampered Western civlization, this is especially true) and get married to someone you are fairly sure you can trust (as sure as anyone can be, ya know) and who is a good friend (if possible, they should also be hot :p ).

Prenup? If *she* has money and wants to protect herself, I suppose (especially if she was being pressured by a wealthy family), but to approach someone with a list of regulations and penalties?

Hmmm, what would I say to that...

What, indeed?

Oh, I know, it would be: GTFO, you whore! :D

[darth los]

Good point. If you think about it, prenups are just a reflection of what people in our society have become: untrustworthy scumbags. Hey, the option to not get married at all still exists you know. Why do so many people feel that they have to get married anyway? Everything isn't for everybody people. Everybody is not cut out to be a parent, everyone is not cut out for the college life, the same pertains to marriage. That's why when people find a lifemate they should really appreciate it cause they are truly blessed.

[MissJacksonCA]

I think some people enjoy the idea of a wedding a honeymoon and the ideal marriage. The problem is they dont discuss expectations with each other before they marry. A lot of churches require pre-marriage counseling but of course you can avoid that and even after going through that it doesn't necessarily help the would-be couple.

MTV has a great show engaged and underage and it shows people in their teens and early 20s getting hitched and I just see them and go... I give 'em 3 months... my favorite episode has this dude marrying a Mormon girl who wants to marry in her church which means his family can't be present at the ceremony because they're not Mormon. Then at the reception his lil sisters want to recite a poem they wrote and she says she doesn't want them to and keeps crying and pouting to get her way. I woulda dumped her on the spot! To make it worse she treated his family shabbily post-wedding when they wanted to take photos of them and when his mum offered her a brooch to wear she was like hells nah! How desperate was he to marry her?

[darth los]

I think some people enjoy the idea of a wedding a honeymoon and the ideal marriage. The problem is they dont discuss expectations with each other before they marry. A lot of churches require pre-marriage counseling but of course you can avoid that and even after going through that it doesn't necessarily help the would-be couple.

MTV has a great show engaged and underage and it shows people in their teens and early 20s getting hitched and I just see them and go... I give 'em 3 months... my favorite episode has this dude marrying a Mormon girl who wants to marry in her church which means his family can't be present at the ceremony because they're not Mormon. Then at the reception his lil sisters want to recite a poem they wrote and she says she doesn't want them to and keeps crying and pouting to get her way. I woulda dumped her on the spot! To make it worse she treated his family shabbily post-wedding when they wanted to take photos of them and when his mum offered her a brooch to wear she was like hells nah! How desperate was he to marry her?


I think that's exactly it. Most people are idealistic. They're like "love will find a way". But real life doesn't work like that. Everything should be laid out on the table beforehand: Money issues, children, that herpes infection they got from a tranny :eek:

About that mormon girl, hell yeah she'd be gone. That's only a precursor of things to come. You can only imagine the demands her and her family will make once they're hitched.

[MissJacksonCA]

Women also tend not to date a man for who he is but who he could become... I find that a lot in females today... they're dating a guy but they're waiting for him to become something ideal to them... its not that easy... he's not going to wake up and be someone else in a year especially if thats not what he wants for himself...

you're right Darth all the major components of married life should be laid out on the table pre-marriage... for instance if I buy name brand cereal... thats what I expect... I dont want to wake up to generic grape nuts... that could drive me crazy... especially financial things thoough... most marriages strain over finances... when you get married you're absorbing someone elses debt pre-marriage and is that something you want? My boyfriend is nearly 20k in debt... I'd never marry him. I have no debt and love it. But we also spend money differently. I'm a miser and he spends like he's gonna die tommorow. If I got married to anyone I want a seperate bank account. I want my name on the title to the home we live in. I want life insurance and to be beneficiary on the will. These are things most people are too uncomfy to tell their mates... why I'll never know... but its why their relationships break down

[Terran]

...*shrugs*....

:evil: Marriage is for the weak! :evil:

:rolleyes: Prenuptials are for the forward-thinking, pessimistic weak :rolleyes:

:skull:.....Becoming a robot is for Terran.....:skull:

Note to self: speaking about one's self in the third person is not a good way to appear a sane. Especially when it involves becoming a robot!

On a more serious note.....(good transition Terran! *pats back*)....I don’t think pre-nups are necessarily a bad thing...I think they can be a very good thing because if the marriage ever does fall apart it makes the separation a less painful and less damaging transition for all parties involved (kids, man, woman).... There’s varying degrees of pre-nuptials and some of them are quite reasonable and even favorable for both parties...

The only thing that I think really irks people about prenups is that it pretty much dilutes or smudges the idealization of what marriage is....Its hard to make it romantic or spontaneous with a pre-nup....and it makes that whole "till death do us part" sound funny.....

The whole "marriage takes a lot of work" isn’t really something that stands up .... because a person can only be responcible for their own actions and feelings....A person cant make their partner desire the same level of dedication and emotional investment that they feel.... one person could do tons of work to maintain and strengthen a relationship but if the other party just isn’t interested in doing anything to strengthen or continue the relationship there really isn’t anything the one person can do.....

[MissJacksonCA]

When you hit a bump in the road with someone it speaks volumes about who they are when they either decide to fix the problem or evacuate. Thats what I mean when you have to make your marriage work. A lot of people divorce because they dont want to commit to resolving their porblems but thats all dependant on whether they love the person and want to. People who dont take marriage seriously are the ones who quit before trying to fix their problems. Often people just could care less.

I can't agree that prenups make everything come divorce time cheeky because the cause of the divorce could create a vengeful streak in someone and make them attempt to void the PN in search for something more to get back at their partner.

I do agree however that it makes the til death thing seem funny.... I also love a Priest who says 'I now pronounce you man and wife' instead of husband and wife. Its like you till get to be you but I have to be someone else now...

[AcesandEights]

When you hit a bump in the road with someone it speaks volumes about who they are when they either decide to fix the problem or evacuate. Thats what I mean when you have to make your marriage work.

This is so true and a point I was ready to bring up in regards to Terran's above post, but you seemed to encapsulate what I wanted to say so nicely. Now, I'm not saying there aren't times or situations when marriages will not work, I'm saying that people need to be a little less mercenary, short-sighted and selfish.

Then again, the heart is a fickle and capricious beast, oft overdosed on hormones or high on vanity-dependent ego-stroking and I now understand why so many well-ingrained religious strictures grew up to reinforce the 'sanctity' of marriage. However, we don't currently reside in the agrarian and subsistence-based lifestyles of the past, so the need to keep a family unit together for the economic well-being of wife and children (and, the community) does not exist and the fate of any marriage should rest on the personal equity of those involved--the emotional health of all members of the family.

Sometimes it's healthier for all if a couple divorces, sometimes healthier if they work at it and stay together, but I feel from my extremely limited experience that the people are almost always better off if they at least try and work on the matter to explore what has happened, what went wrong, whether there is anything salvagable and where they want to move towards. Honsetly, I feel, most people just runaway from the problem and don't really deal with it efficiently (a fairly natural human reaction for a lot of us).

Oddly enough (and returning to an idea mentioned earlier in this diatribe) the fact that marriage does not need to be an arrangement about chattle and economics in our Westernized modern world, makes me believe that it should be about emotional aspects more-so at this point in human history, than it ever has been, but that's me discounting things like gold diggers, men who want trophy wives and people bowing to some antiquated idea of how people have to live (grow up, get a job, get married, have kids, become succesful, see children off to their lives, die).

Sorry for the ramble.

[_liam_]

i think pre nups are an excellent idea.

i dont see why the person you married is entitled to the money you worked for yourself.

"oh i slept with you a zillion times and went out for dinner & on holiday with you, this obviously had a direct effect on how well you did your job" :rolleyes:

i see what hellsing is saying about it being a bit dodgy and kind of an admission of not having total trust in someone just before you commit to what is supposed to be an eternal partnership, but seriously, dont be silly now, if you really really trust & love each other, then you wont mind;

a) signing something that means you wont stitch them out of money at some point - after all, you love them, you dont want to stitch them up

b) the idea of considering the idea that maybe one day you might break up shouldnt be too upsetting if you are so convinced that you are meant to be that you are getting married.

i dont see it as indicative that you are cynical about the marriage anymore than taking out life insurance makes you a hypochondriac...

or that asking someone to marry you in the first place is indicative that you think they will run off and you need some legally binding paperwork as a guarantee they wont

[darth los]

i think pre nups are an excellent idea.

i dont see why the person you married is entitled to the money you worked for yourself.

"oh i slept with you a zillion times and went out for dinner & on holiday with you, this obviously had a direct effect on how well you did your job" :rolleyes:

i see what hellsing is saying about it being a bit dodgy and kind of an admission of not having total trust in someone just before you commit to what is supposed to be an eternal partnership, but seriously, dont be silly now, if you really really trust & love each other, then you wont mind;

a) signing something that means you wont stitch them out of money at some point - after all, you love them, you dont want to stitch them up

b) the idea of considering the idea that maybe one day you might break up shouldnt be too upsetting if you are so convinced that you are meant to be that you are getting married.

i dont see it as indicative that you are cynical about the marriage anymore than taking out life insurance makes you a hypochondriac...

or that asking someone to marry you in the first place is indicative that you think they will run off and you need some legally binding paperwork as a guarantee they wont



I'm with on this one liam, good points, especially the one about life insurance. You have to be prepared for things in life. I mean, It's Life!!! and we all know sh it happens. You'd be a fool not to be prepared.

[MissJacksonCA]

This website has to be the best one i've visited since the early days of college club back in 1999... i've been coming here since like 2002ish and even though a lot of members are gone and a lot are new the people here are always really awesome because they have such wonderful opinions that may clash but are intelligent and refreshing... its always fun when people agree but its more so when people continue to add on to whatever begins...

y'all are great... except neil he scares me... do you ever notice how his eye kinda follows you around the room? :moon:

[darth los]

This website has to be the best one i've visited since the early days of college club back in 1999... i've been coming here since like 2002ish and even though a lot of members are gone and a lot are new the people here are always really awesome because they have such wonderful opinions that may clash but are intelligent and refreshing... its always fun when people agree but its more so when people continue to add on to whatever begins...

y'all are great... except neil he scares me... do you ever notice how his eye kinda follows you around the room? :moon:

I find it more refreshing that we can discuss things and have diverse ipinions on topics without acting like children. A forum like that is virtually impossible to find. There was a thread a little while back asking why HPOTD didn't advertise. We pretty much came to the consensus that if it did these place would overflow with"numpties":p who'd spam up the boards. I wouldn't want it any other way.

[Dtothe3]

There was a thread a little while back asking why HPOTD didn't advertise. We pretty much came to the consensus that if it did these place would overflow with"numpties":p who'd spam up the boards. I wouldn't want it any other way.

My nickname is numpty :(

As for pre-nups, my view centers around the idea that when you say "I love you" there really is no way back (not that it's a bad thing). If you can say I do to someone, then really why is it so much skin off folks noses to pick up the pieces when things go wrong?

Marriages go through sweet patches, rough patches, nasty patches and (if you kiss and make up) wet patches. Jumping ship at the office or crap like that just seems like you're avoiding the issues at hand. It takes two people to make a marriage work methinks.

Suggestions for a happy relationship/marriage;

1. Never sleep on a problem. If it gets brought up, mentioned or anything, it's dealt with there and then, preferably over a cuppa tea. Do not ever say "I have a problem with you but I don't want to talk about it right now".

2. Make time for each other. In this hectic world it's hard to find five minutes to share, let alone an evening. But make the time. It's worth it.

3. Hold hands. Don't ask, just do.

4. Remember to go out and see you're own friends. It's important to have lives away from each other. Give you're partner time to see their friends.

5. Argue from time to time. There's no need to bottle crap up. You're each others world punching bag (not literally).

6. Anger and Horniness are quite close together. good arguments lead to mind blowing sex. If there are no arguments, you may need to carefully start one...

7. Ask to meet the parents early, her mother should give you a good idea of droopage potential, so make the most of them while they're above her waist.


Yeah I was bored :P

[darth los]

I think that #4 on your list is very important. if people aren't allowed to be themselves they're going to be very unhappy. If the person can't love you for who you are, it's very difficult to make it work.