WOW! BBFC ban Man Hunt 2

[Neil]

Let's not confuse the modern BBFC (British Board of Film Classification) with the old one who wouldn't even let tame porn get through. The modern BBFC is extremely open minded...

That said, they've actually refused to clasify Man Hunt 2... Has this game gone too far? Seems so!


The BBFC has rejected the video game Manhunt 2. This means that it cannot be legally supplied anywhere in the UK. The game was submitted in both a PS2 and a Nintendo Wii version. The decision was taken by the Director and the Presidential Team of Sir Quentin Thomas, Lord Taylor of Warwick and Janet Lewis-Jones.

David Cooke, Director of the BBFC said:

"Rejecting a work is a very serious action and one which we do not take lightly. Where possible we try to consider cuts or, in the case of games, modifications which remove the material which contravenes the Board's published Guidelines. In the case of Manhunt 2 this has not been possible. Manhunt 2 is distinguishable from recent high-end video games by its unremitting bleakness and callousness of tone in an overall game context which constantly encourages visceral killing with exceptionally little alleviation or distancing. There is sustained and cumulative casual sadism in the way in which these killings are committed, and encouraged, in the game.

"Although the difference should not be exaggerated the fact of the game's unrelenting focus on stalking and brutal slaying and the sheer lack of alternative pleasures on offer to the gamer, together with the different overall narrative context, contribute towards differentiating this submission from the original Manhunt game. That work was classified '18' in 2003, before the BBFC's recent games research had been undertaken, but was already at the very top end of what the Board judged to be acceptable at that category."

"Against this background, the Board's carefully considered view is that to issue a certificate to Manhunt 2, on either platform, would involve a range of unjustifiable harm risks, to both adults and minors, within the terms of the Video Recordings Act, and accordingly that its availability, even if statutorily confined to adults, would be unacceptable to the public."

Under the terms of the Video Recordings Act distributors have the right to appeal the Board's decision.

This is the first video game to be refused a classification since Carmageddon in 1997, when that decision was overturned on appeal by the Video Appeals Committee.

[Danny]

the bbfc's pretty damn fair nowadays, you can even say the c word once in a 15 now, so for manhunt 2 to be banned its gott abe pretty bad, whens the last time a game got banned in the uk anyway, were pretty liberal when it comes to games.

[Neil]

the bbfc's pretty damn fair nowadays, you can even say the c word once in a 15 now, so for manhunt 2 to be banned its gott abe pretty bad, whens the last time a game got banned in the uk anyway, were pretty liberal when it comes to games.

They've even released 'art' films to the cinema with sex scenes - oral and even ejaculations etc...

Would love to know what's in this game that's gone too far!

[Cykotic]

I'd love to know as well

[capncnut]

Would love to know what's in this game that's gone too far!
I'm against censorship but it's not surprising. My buddy just told me that he saw a gameplay clip where you can can see the main character stalk a victim through three corridors before creeping up behind and strangling him. The victim also seemed to be fighting against the strangle hold (giving the player a bit of grief) so maybe there's a real sense of interactivity with the 'killing' that the BBFC thought was too much for a videogame.

[Danny]

ya know people bitch about censoring but it aint a bloke in a tweed suit from the 50's its just keeping things at a level if human deceny they didnt ban crap films like saw and hostel censoring isd just there for the dumb parents who will let there kids see halloween at the age of 6.

[MinionZombie]

Blimey grimey! Just as I opened this, Channel 4 did a quick report on it (no balance either way, very cursory, so psycho parents across the land will be flapping their arms in panic :rolleyes:)

As for Carmageddon, indeed, over-turned and released uncensored (I have it - in a special edition - up in my cupboard, a hella fun game, and I was playing it when I was about...what...13 or 14...I'm still fine. :p

I think the main fuss with Manhunt 2 is the Wii version, it's not a normal controller, so that's been a major target of anti-game nutters who say it's being peddled to kids - even though it isn't...do they give a bollocks about that Ninja Steel or whatever it's called, you wave your Wiimote around to control a samurai sword for cripes sake! But who cares really.

If it's still banned after appeal, wow, that'd be quite something...the BBFC are indeed very lenient these days (which is a good thing) and they are very open to (unlike those nobhead MPAA schmuckers)...interesting...

[Danny]

it must be pretty bad cus the bbfc site doesnt even list why it as banned and it usually does.

http://www.bbfc.co.uk/website/Classified.nsf/c2fb077ba3f9b33980256b4f002da32c/9549a008b065edd2802572ff003be6ed?OpenDocument

[darth los]

That's the problem with standards of decency and weeding out obscenity from certain media. Who's to say what's obscene or not, it's just to objective. We have the same problem here in the states.

[CoinReturn]

Manhunt 2 Has been rated "AO" (Adults Only) by the ESRB:

http://gamepolitics.com/2007/06/19/breaking-manhunt-2-rated-adults-only-by-esrb/


This just in from Take Two Interactive, publisher of the embattled Manhunt 2:

The ESRB has issued an initial rating of AO (Adults Only) for Manhunt 2.

We believe the process of rating videogames is to help people make informed entertainment choices and not to limit them.

Manhunt 2 was created for mature audiences and we strongly believe it should receive an M (Mature) rating, aligning it with similar content created in other forms of media. We are exploring our options with regard to the rating of Manhunt 2.

In Manhunt 2, players can saw their enemies’ skulls in half; mutilate them with an axe; castrate them with a pair of pliers; and kill them by bashing their heads into an electrical box, where it is blown apart by a power surge. On Wii, players will not merely punch buttons or wield a joy stick, but will actually act out this violence…

It has also dissappeared from EBGames and Gamestop's websites. Yesterday it was ranked in the 30s for Wii games at Amazon.com. Right now, its 11. What a great way to build hype for a game.

Edit: Its back up at Gamestop and EBgames.

[darth los]

Manhunt 2 Has been rated "AO" (Adults Only) by the ESRB:

http://gamepolitics.com/2007/06/19/breaking-manhunt-2-rated-adults-only-by-esrb/



It has also dissappeared from EBGames and Gamestop's websites. Yesterday it was ranked in the 30s for Wii games at Amazon.com. Right now, its 11. What a great way to build hype for a game.

Edit: Its back up at Gamestop and EBgames.


We should be thankful that it's available here at all. What was the reason for those sites taking it off in the first place? I'd beter snatch it up when it comes out before any more funny busines happens. :shifty:

[CoinReturn]

Sites were taking it down because most big chains like Wal-Mart, Gamestop, EBGames, etc. will refuse to sell Adult Only games. I hope Take Two/Rockstar keep it at AO, I'd buy it simply to support them in their decision. Companies can't be afraid of censorship, and if the game sold big, others would follow suit.

[darth los]

Sites were taking it down because most big chains like Wal-Mart, Gamestop, EBGames, etc. will refuse to sell Adult Only games. I hope Take Two/Rockstar keep it at AO, I'd buy it simply to support them in their decision. Companies can't be afraid of censorship, and if the game sold big, others would follow suit.

So it's a business decision,huh? It shouldn't be up to the gov't what we can and can't buy. We're adults. There just worried about a firestorm getting started because it will eventually find it's way into the hands of some minors. I take that as an admission that there is just not enough being done to keep games like this out of the hands of minors. The chains who sell it to them are only partly to blame though. Who do you think buys these kids the games in the first place? Yep the parents.

[Danny]

who aside from eli roth would want to play a game were you pull a guys nuts off with pliers?


.....if it was hittem with a hamme rmaybe gallagher but still, that is a few toes over the line for a videogame.

[darth los]

who aside from eli roth would want to play a game were you pull a guys nuts off with pliers?


.....if it was hittem with a hamme rmaybe gallagher but still, that is a few toes over the line for a videogame.


Parhaps with the success of All these torture/extreme gore films such as hostel/hills have eyes etc., They figured that there is indeed a market out there for this stuff. Ticket sales seem to indicate that they're right.

[MinionZombie]

who aside from eli roth would want to play a game were you pull a guys nuts off with pliers?

Eh? Is that in the game or tabloidal assumption? If the latter - FORSHAAAAAAAAAAAME!!! :D

I enjoyed Manhunt for a while, I hated the lack of environment interactivity though, did my nuts in (lol, but not THAT much, haha). I'd quite like Manhunt 2 to sell a bundle while being rated AO, perhaps it'll spur on some properly adult games. Yes GTA and all that are quite violent, have swearing, but you get barely a snifter of minge! :lol:

There needs to be more AO games I say! :D

But I doubt severely that Manhunt 2 would influence anyone anyway, it's all media hype, especially with the Wiimote and numpty anti-game people spouting tabloidal sentences fuelled purely by their distaste, which is retarded.

As for the gaming public, the majority won't play it, or people will play it and not like it and make up their own mind. Like with the first game, people didn't like it (well, the ones who didn't like it anyway) down to the quality of the build and the story - which shows maturity...yet anti-game wankers refuse to really understand the industry and the fanbase...tisk tisk.

[darth los]

I just don't understand it. People want these games. There's a market for it. Pretty much every other demographic has their games. Kiddie games, brain games, pet games (ahem, nintendo). I agree we need some quality AO games.

[MinionZombie]

Exactly - like with films, there's a demographic for all sorts.

Before it was whinging about horror movies, now it's violent games, pathetic really, and games will win out in the end, so why do these numpty anti-game nobs waste so much energy? ... to justify their funding I suppose ... still, what a pathetic life that must be! :eek:

[Tricky]

To be honest they are probably right to ban it,it sounds a pretty sick game & is probably like porn to someone who likes the idea of doing those things in real life.I play FPS games,some of which are pretty violent,but they arent killing & stalking etc just for the pure hell of it,ive never liked games that are sick for sicks sake.wise decision i say & im not a prude

[darth los]

But just because someone might not agree with something doesn't mean it should be banned. I hate most rpg's so i want all final fantasy games to be banned. That's not fair. This game is for adults. We can make that choice for ourselves. I do think that this game should never find it's way into kid's hands but it's doubtful that's an oblective that ca be realized. The same could also be said about alcohol, guns and cigarettes. The gov't already has it's nose in too many things that it shouldn't.

[Danny]

yeah mz its really in it though gamespot names it as a "forced and enthused castration", thats almost as bad as "wardrobe malfunction":rolleyes:

the big dela is one the wii you actually have to use the wiimote in a way like a knife to actually cut of a guys garbage:barf: , that isnt gameing thats sick.

yeah ,i find it sick, not to often youll hear me say that.

[capncnut]

When you check out the screenshots from The Sun Online (http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007280445,00.html), it's hardly surprising. Rockstar have time to appeal but it will do no good, they will probably have to censor it heavily or not release it in the UK altogether. You can bet your ass it'll be banned in Australia, seeing as though they censored Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy.

I don't think it should be banned personally. If real parents enforced restrictions on games with an 18 certificate and stopped buying their kids Grand Theft Auto for Christmas then this probably wouldn't be happening. Why should us adults suffer? They wouldn't ban a movie that had similar content, now would they? No, because it's something you control yourself, there's a slim possiblity it might trigger off a glitch in some spaz's head who cant differentiate from real life and fantasy and the classification board are lumping all of us into that category.

[darth los]

the big dela is one the wii you actually have to use the wiimote in a way like a knife to actually cut of a guys garbage:barf: , that isnt gameing thats sick.

yeah ,i find it sick, not to often youll hear me say that.

Is it any sicker that stabbing a man through the gut with a katana in red steel?



I don't think it should be banned personally. If real parents enforced restrictions on games with an 18 certificate and stopped buying their kids Grand Theft Auto for Christmas then this probably wouldn't be happening. Why should us adults suffer? They wouldn't ban a movie that had similar content, now would they? No, because it's something you control yourself, there's a slim possiblity it might trigger off a glitch in some spaz's head who cant differentiate from real life and fantasy and the classification board are lumping all of us into that category.

That's the real problem cap. These kids don't have money and can't legally buy it for themselves. So who's really to blame? That's not usually my stance on things. I think parents get too much of the blame for their children's actions, but not in this case.

[Danny]

Is it any sicker that stabbing a man through the gut with a katana in red steel?




yes, you cutting a guys cock and nakcers off with a knife using a remote to mime it, of course its worse.:eek:

[darth los]

yes, you cutting a guys cock and nakcers off with a knife using a remote to mime it, of course its worse.:eek:


We're in total agreement there. I cringe at the thought of genital mutilation.

[MinionZombie]

But apparently, from recent research, most parents are paying attention to the ratings, whether they go against them or not I duno, but apparently most do pay attention these days after the slew of fussy-shouty front pages on the Daily Mail.

And indeed, censorship is rather silly, it should only be used very sparingly - like you can understand why soldier's letters are censored if they let some important detail slip, doi, obvious.

But christ, it's just a game. I'm sure a lot of people would be repulsed by Manhunt 2 anyway, so they wouldn't get it anyway. Manhunt didn't do that great until the whole Stefan Pakeerah bullshiite. If you don't wanna hack off some nuts, then don't buy it, simple as.

And you might get the odd nutter, or just one nutter, but they'd crack eventually anyway...perhaps a game or whatever delayed them for a bit, so perhaps less people would ultimately suffer from a random massacre, who knows.

Anyway, just look at porn, the evidence is very strong that hardcore is good for lower stats to do with real life rape - i.e. people capable of doing that (whether they know or not), are popping their clogs more often, so they don't get all "sex nuts and retard strong" (to quote the brilliant Randall in Clerks 2 :D)...same for games.

Like with GTA, when I'd feel sh*t and angry, an hour on that and I'd be chilled out. Shoot some code in the "balls" and then sigh relief and go watch The Simpson's on TV, now relaxed and chilled out...

Manhunt 2 piracy will be through the roof methinks. :lol:

[darth los]

And indeed, censorship is rather silly, it should only be used very sparingly - like you can understand why soldier's letters are censored if they let some important detail slip, doi, obvious.

I totally agree. Censorship should be the exception and not the rule. It should be used only in cases where it could easily get into the hands of kids. If they put this much effort into enforcing existing laws thhat are supposed to prevent the sale of adult themed content to minors there wouldn't be this problem. Everybody agrees that children shouldn't be able to get their hands on porn but you don't see them banning that do you? We just enforce the laws that are on the books. Restricting access to adults who it is undemocratic.

[Danny]

i aint saying its gonna make people violent its just in real bad taste for the missions to be cutting someones knackers off or setting them on fire for the hell of it, dont know about you but i prefer the way games are meant to be a fun interactive movie type thing and this takes it a little far into a virtuals nuff type thing for my tastes.

[darth los]

i aint saying its gonna make people violent its just in real bad taste for the missions to be cutting someones knackers off or setting them on fire for the hell of it, dont know about you but i prefer the way games are meant to be a fun interactive movie type thing and this takes it a little far into a virtuals nuff type thing for my tastes.


Whether we think it's in bad taste or not is irrelevant. I agree with you 100% that it's in bad taste. But other people have the right to buy it if they want to. It's like an old military saying: "I don't agree with what you said but i'll fight for the death for your right to say it."

[MinionZombie]

Here here to that "right to say it" thingy. :)

But look at GTA and games like that, you can set fire to people, gun them down, run them over, rob them, beat them up. Manhunt 2 is just a little bit higher up the bar than that.

I think gamers should be able to decide the merit of the game, not unresearched, tabloid hysteria. All this talk, but the game hasn't really been seen in action that much thus far. Things always sound worse than they actually are. When I played Manhunt I wondered what all the fuss was about, I really did.

As for the laws in place, they're adequate, people just need to stick by them, but according to recent research most parents are paying attention to the ratings. If they still buy their kids the game, well, the industry simply cannot do anymore than they already are. They do plenty to uphold their end of the deal, if parents still give their kids the games - whether paying attention to the ratings or not - then that's their fault, not the fault of the industry.

Besides, these anti-game whack-jobs really have no idea about the industry, the games themselves - or (and this is a big let down) the gamers actually doing the playing! The level of misunderstanding or refusal to understand is vast and wide with the nutters...feckin' losers.

And as the average gamer age is what, 27 or 28 now, I think gamers are fully capable of deciding whether Manhunt 2 is a decent game or not. Decrying it without playing it is a bit daft, I have to be honest...that's what I've always believed in.

[darth los]

Here here to that "right to say it" thingy. :)

But look at GTA and games like that, you can set fire to people, gun them down, run them over, rob them, beat them up. Manhunt 2 is just a little bit higher up the bar than that.

I think gamers should be able to decide the merit of the game, not unresearched, tabloid hysteria. All this talk, but the game hasn't really been seen in action that much thus far. Things always sound worse than they actually are. When I played Manhunt I wondered what all the fuss was about, I really did.

As for the laws in place, they're adequate, people just need to stick by them, but according to recent research most parents are paying attention to the ratings. If they still buy their kids the game, well, the industry simply cannot do anymore than they already are. They do plenty to uphold their end of the deal, if parents still give their kids the games - whether paying attention to the ratings or not - then that's their fault, not the fault of the industry.


I too feel that the laws on the books are adequate when enforced, the problrem there is they're not. if The gov't wants to have a hissy fit about games getting into the hands of minors than they should concentrate on doing more in between games, like sting operations on stores to catch people who do sell this content to minors much like the do with cigarettes and alcohol. I know it sounds corny but that's how bad they're acting. This would discourage people from doing it because they know the gov't is watching. the only other alternative is to lock up the parents and that's not going to happen. Also you're right this type of content does exist already but in gta it's optional in this game it's the whole objective of the game. The gamer is being required to do it.

[MinionZombie]

Required to act violent or not, it's still the gamer's choice to play the game or not, it should also be down to the gamer how many units get sold, not because of bans. No wonder it's been "withdrawn", it's a scapegoat now, even Italy was trying to hop on the bandwagon, but R* have pulled it out and will wait for sh*t to cool down again. It's pathetic how governments jump on silly little bandwagons like this, especially without properly looking at the facts and the industry and the culture of gaming.

I duno about America, but here in the UK there are often "sting" operations where they take kids and send them into stores to try and buy games above their age (same with movies and vices), and I think it was there, or at least partly from there, that it was proven that there has been a definite increase in shops checking for ID rather than just selling them.

Some simple staff training and you're sorted, but if you've got some drop out drongo too stupid to ask, then that's the fault of the drongo, not the games maker, although Jack Thompson and co would have you believe that, or attempt to anyway.

Like I said before, I can't remember where from, but it was proven that people are paying attention to ratings on games much more now, than before, both in stores and as parents.

Basically, the games industry has done all it can.

[darth los]

Required to act violent or not, it's still the gamer's choice to play the game or not, it should also be down to the gamer how many units get sold, not because of bans. No wonder it's been "withdrawn", it's a scapegoat now, even Italy was trying to hop on the bandwagon, but R* have pulled it out and will wait for sh*t to cool down again. It's pathetic how governments jump on silly little bandwagons like this, especially without properly looking at the facts and the industry and the culture of gaming.

I duno about America, but here in the UK there are often "sting" operations where they take kids and send them into stores to try and buy games above their age (same with movies and vices), and I think it was there, or at least partly from there, that it was proven that there has been a definite increase in shops checking for ID rather than just selling them.

Some simple staff training and you're sorted, but if you've got some drop out drongo too stupid to ask, then that's the fault of the drongo, not the games maker, although Jack Thompson and co would have you believe that, or attempt to anyway.

Like I said before, I can't remember where from, but it was proven that people are paying attention to ratings on games much more now, than before, both in stores and as parents.

Basically, the games industry has done all it can.

I'm surprised many games are sold to minors by chains such as gamestation at all, here's why. Most of the clerks who work at these stores are just like us, rabid gamers. They have to know that. Getting these mature theme games into the hands of children is only going to hurt us adult gamers when games like manhunt come out. You would think that as gamers themselves they would recognize that and be even more vigilant about it because it affects us gamers directly.

[MinionZombie]

Not necessarily are they going to be gamers, you probably get a lot of switched off folk, although GameStation appears to be a place more inhabited by gamers...but young folk are much more likely to be gamers, especially blokes.

I think those who are/have/would sell games to minors are more likely to be older or female or just morons, and morons could be anybody really. Some people are really switched off and can't be bothered to pay attention.

Although, hehe, getting asked for ID when you're 19, in town on a day-off from university trying to buy "Kingpin" years after it originally came out is embarrassing and/or annoying...but that was the last time I was asked for ID, so I guess I look shagged out enough (as in tired) to be an adult, but I guess it meant/means I look younger than I am, which will pay off when I'm older...

Blimey, TANGENT or what?! :lol:

[darth los]

Not necessarily are they going to be gamers, you probably get a lot of switched off folk, although GameStation appears to be a place more inhabited by gamers...but young folk are much more likely to be gamers, especially blokes.

I think those who are/have/would sell games to minors are more likely to be older or female or just morons, and morons could be anybody really. Some people are really switched off and can't be bothered to pay attention.

Although, hehe, getting asked for ID when you're 19, in town on a day-off from university trying to buy "Kingpin" years after it originally came out is embarrassing and/or annoying...but that was the last time I was asked for ID, so I guess I look shagged out enough (as in tired) to be an adult, but I guess it meant/means I look younger than I am, which will pay off when I'm older...

Blimey, TANGENT or what?! :lol:

I get carded myself everytime i go buy some liquor and i take it as a compliment. The only people who have a problem with being carded are those who aren't supossed to be buying the stuff in the first place.

[MinionZombie]

I remember once I bought a 15 rated film when I was 14 (The Fog), and then when I was 15 I tried to buy three 15 rated films and got asked for ID, which - when you were that young, at that time in UK history, you don't have ID...and yet I'd bought a 15 rated film mere minutes beforehand...odd.

[darth los]

I remember once I bought a 15 rated film when I was 14 (The Fog), and then when I was 15 I tried to buy three 15 rated films and got asked for ID, which - when you were that young, at that time in UK history, you don't have ID...and yet I'd bought a 15 rated film mere minutes beforehand...odd.

The only id you'd have is your high school id. But yeah that is weird. Alot of cliques have their designated buyer, someone who looks older, that does all that stuff. Others just have a dependable adult they go to and just give them some of whatever they would buy. Not that i have any personal experience with that. :shifty:

[MinionZombie]

I always got my folks to buy me films like Day of the Dead or Evil Dead or whatever, the staff flat out knew it was for me (skulking in the background :lol:), but as an adult is buying, then it's all legal. There's no real harm in it, you just can't supply directly to a minor, but if the parent is fine with it and the kid isn't running up the walls screaming, then who cares really? That was the case with me.

We didn't even have high school ID. A few months after that incident they did a card to show when we were 18 on it, but that was ages after, otherwise you have absolutely no ID beyond a passport maybe, but those are so pricey you don't wanna be carrying that around with you all the time, you'd lose it or have it chaffed by some chav seeking to ID rape you or something...bastards.

[darth los]

I think that most of the time that's the only time where it's okay, if the parents review content and deem it okay for their childs viewing/playing. It might technically be illegal but it happens all the time. I don't think you would say that viewing zombie films at a young age ruined you (much :p ). Here in the states it's common for rednecks to take their children, sometimes as young as 8 years old, hunting and teach them how to use guns.

[MinionZombie]

I started watching horror movies when I was 9 years old, first with Alien (if memory serves) and then progressed onto zombie films when I was 14. In fact, last month it was 10 years since I discovered who George Romero was (in a magazine article about him, in "SFX"). :cool:

[darth los]

I started watching horror movies when I was 9 years old, first with Alien (if memory serves) and then progressed onto zombie films when I was 14. In fact, last month it was 10 years since I discovered who George Romero was (in a magazine article about him, in "SFX"). :cool:

horror movies definitely did something to me when i was a kid. I was constantly on the lookout for monsters. :shifty: Happy anny by the way. :D