Happy 4th of July my fellow Americans...

[MissJacksonCA]

This is one of my favorite holidays but an article to stress the importance of safety first...

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/fireworks-explodes-in-mothers-face/20070703230309990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001

My boyfriend in his infinite stupidity set off a ton of fireworks while trying to do something totally assnine and wound up burning his arms and breaking an ear drum... serves him right and he surely is going to enjoy the plane flight after that.

[darth los]

This is one of my favorite holidays but an article to stress the importance of safety first...

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/fireworks-explodes-in-mothers-face/20070703230309990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001

My boyfriend in his infinite stupidity set off a ton of fireworks while trying to do something totally assnine and wound up burning his arms and breaking an ear drum... serves him right and he surely is going to enjoy the plane flight after that.

Fireworks are underground items for a reason. They are dangerous and should be handled by people who know what they're doing. Many times safety protocalls are not followed and result in injury. Think about it, some fireworks carry up to a quarter stick of dynomite. People get drunk, are laughing with their friends and treat lighting them way more casually than they should. I have a frien whole blew off 4 of his fingers with an m-80. It blew up almost instantly after he lit it. These things are not government regulated in most cases and there's no gurantee that they'll work they way they're supposed to.

[fartpants]

on a lighter note happy 4th of july to all you yanks out there from all us english zombie-nuts...

[Khardis]

Fireworks are underground items for a reason. They are dangerous and should be handled by people who know what they're doing. Many times safety protocalls are not followed and result in injury. Think about it, some fireworks carry up to a quarter stick of dynomite. People get drunk, are laughing with their friends and treat lighting them way more casually than they should. I have a frien whole blew off 4 of his fingers with an m-80. It blew up almost instantly after he lit it. These things are not government regulated in most cases and there's no gurantee that they'll work they way they're supposed to.

Or we could just use personal responsibility and not treat everyone like kids who need things denied to them. I buy illegal fireworks every year, have been for 10 years and I never had an accident yet.

[darth los]

Or we could just use personal responsibility and not treat everyone like kids who need things denied to them. I buy illegal fireworks every year, have been for 10 years and I never had an accident yet.

Alot of people have. However those are the same people who are most likely to look for someone to sue after they blow their hands off. I applaud your sense of personal responsibility but the fact is that we live in a litigatous society. Everyone is always looking for someone else to blame. I agree with your libertarian viewpoint on this topic though. The gov't is too big and regulates way to many aspects of our everyday lives. They should pave the roads, defend the boarders and get the hell out of the way. Also, most people are sheep and need someone to follow and to tell them what to do so they give up their personal liberty and thus personal responsibility to the gov't.

[Khardis]

Alot of people have. However those are the same people who are most likely to look for someone to sue after they blow their hands off. I applaud your sense of personal responsibility but the fact is that we live in a litigatous society. Everyone is always looking for someone else to blame. I agree with your libertarian viewpoint on this topic though. The gov't is too big and regulates way to many aspects of our everyday lives. They should pave the roads, defend the boarders and get the hell out of the way. Also, most people are sheep and need someone to follow and to tell them what to do so they give up their personal liberty and thus personal responsibility to the gov't.

Then we need to put laws into effect that limit the amount of litigation that can be filed for personal mistakes.

[darth los]

Then we need to put laws into effect that limit the amount of litigation that can be filed for personal mistakes.

I'm all for that one. On a side note , it's one of the reasons why alot of doctor's go out of business because it's no longer profitable to be one. No vocation has a 100% success rate by it's practitioners. Everyone wants to sue the pants off them at the drop of a hat.

[Khardis]

I'm all for that one. On a side note , it's one of the reasons why alot of doctor's go out of business because it's no longer profitable to be one. No vocation has a 100% success rate by it's practitioners. Everyone wants to sue the pants off them at the drop of a hat.

True, and its also why our insurance and health care is so expensive.

[MissJacksonCA]

Please.. if we were a society that had even the smallest semblence of personal responsibility I wouldn't have to read things like dish soap wasn't meant to be ingested and my blowdryer can't be put into the bathtub. For every warning label I read I prolly am shelling out a good fortune to pay for the lawsuit that warning label stemmed from. Its such crap. Its a person saying my bad I effed up but now you have to pay. Which is exactly the kind of society we stem from.

[Khardis]

Please.. if we were a society that had even the smallest semblence of personal responsibility I wouldn't have to read things like dish soap wasn't meant to be ingested and my blowdryer can't be put into the bathtub. For every warning label I read I prolly am shelling out a good fortune to pay for the lawsuit that warning label stemmed from. Its such crap. Its a person saying my bad I effed up but now you have to pay. Which is exactly the kind of society we stem from.

Again, the next time you see a conservative running on a platform to drive down costs, by limiting BS lawsuits, vote for him. Bush partially ran on that I think in 2000, although when it came to getting that stuff passed it was held up in congress.

[darth los]

Again, the next time you see a conservative running on a platform to drive down costs, by limiting BS lawsuits, vote for him. Bush partially ran on that I think in 2000, although when it came to getting that stuff passed it was held up in congress.

If only bush was a true conservative like he claims to be. His policies on immigration and the unprecedented growth of gov't and national debt under his watch contradictcs that.

[MissJacksonCA]

Again, the next time you see a conservative running on a platform to drive down costs, by limiting BS lawsuits, vote for him. Bush partially ran on that I think in 2000, although when it came to getting that stuff passed it was held up in congress.

Well I would never vote conservative during a presidential election. But I wouldn't be suprised if that was part of Bush's platform since his cohorts are business owners worth millions upon billions who are tired of being sued in frivolous lawsuits so it would only be better for them if they could pass a bill to cap lawsuit payouts. And I sure hate to make fat cats fatter.

We need an alternate solution. Like a common sense law. If you're too stupid to know x what going to happen to you when you did something then that's your fault and now you're front page news for being a total moron so we've educated the public on your stupidity and you should know better so next time take caution.

[Khardis]

If only bush was a true conservative like he claims to be. His policies on immigration and the unprecedented growth of gov't and national debt under his watch contradictcs that.

Oh for sure, I'm so sick of this immigration debacle. Its disgusting. I always laugh hard when liberals and democrats says conservatives are eeeeevvvvviiiillll just look at Heir Bush... its like... you know hes actually quite liberal don't you? He may piggy back on some conservative ideas like kicking terrorists asses and blessed tax relief... but everything else the man does smacks of liberalism.


Well I would never vote conservative during a presidential election. But I wouldn't be suprised if that was part of Bush's platform since his cohorts are business owners worth millions upon billions who are tired of being sued in frivolous lawsuits so it would only be better for them if they could pass a bill to cap lawsuit payouts. And I sure hate to make fat cats fatter.

We need an alternate solution. Like a common sense law. If you're too stupid to know x what going to happen to you when you did something then that's your fault and now you're front page news for being a total moron so we've educated the public on your stupidity and you should know better so next time take caution.

Theres nothing wrong with fat cats getting fatter, in fact I am all for it. I don't believe in class envy. If someone is rich, I say good for them, heres a pat on the back. I got no ill will towards them. Making them poorer wont enrich my life, in fact it will just reduce the number of jobs they provide.

And you wont vote conservative why? Because they're rich? Is that why? Not a single democrat you have EVER voted for was middle class or lower.

[darth los]

Oh for sure, I'm so sick of this immigration debacle. Its disgusting. I always laugh hard when liberals and democrats says conservatives are eeeeevvvvviiiillll just look at Heir Bush... its like... you know hes actually quite liberal don't you? He may piggy back on some conservative ideas like kicking terrorists asses and blessed tax relief... but everything else the man does smacks of liberalism.


He pretty much had to label himself that because he needed the religeous right and the consrvatives in order to get elected. Just like a politician. They say one thing while campaigning and do another when the get in office.

[Khardis]

He pretty much had to label himself that because he needed the religeous right and the consrvatives in order to get elected. Just like a politician. They say one thing while campaigning and do another when the get in office.

I am just really thankful that his, Teddy Kennedy's and McCain's shamnesty was yanked out form under them twice by conservatives and Union members.

[MissJacksonCA]

Uh I have nothing against the wealthy I come from a family with money ... my problem with Bush is mostly his Enron connections, his belief in pro-life which is make or break with me as a woman, and his insistence on a war with Iraq. Additionally I back people who admit that we are experiencing global warming and who give tax breaks to people who go green. Recently they're taking away tax breaks for people who buy hybrid cars... I wonder why? Besides... my values are all Democratic... personally during the last governor election in California I was going to vote for a Republican (not Ahnuld) but I was certainly going to go that route... but Presidentially... prolly never.

[Khardis]

Uh I have nothing against the wealthy I come from a family with money ... my problem with Bush is mostly his Enron connections, his belief in pro-life which is make or break with me as a woman, and his insistence on a war with Iraq. Additionally I back people who admit that we are experiencing global warming and who give tax breaks to people who go green. Recently they're taking away tax breaks for people who buy hybrid cars... I wonder why? Besides... my values are all Democratic... personally during the last governor election in California I was going to vote for a Republican (not Ahnuld) but I was certainly going to go that route... but Presidentially... prolly never.

You don't like Bush's alleged" Enron" connections but would you vote for say Clinton who had a hand in hiring people who worked for Enron who helped with Enron friendly legislation in the 90s?

Global warming is happening, every politician will agree, even Republicans. Its not that, that people are arguing. Its WHAT is causing it, that people argue. Conservatives tend to believe is a natural earth cycle thats backed by factual data, archeology, and climate study... while liberals tend to believe its MAN MADE AND WILL DOOM US ALL! Based of course on their flavor of the money consensus studies by environmentalist whackos who think we need to ban eating meat and driving cars completely.

The war in Iraq is good. We are setting up an ally in the center of a hostile potential caliphate, we must not allow it to form or else you will see a second Islamic expansion into Europe and the West. Its what they fought the crusades over and the inquisition... oh you didn't know? Yeah those were reactions to militant Islamic expansion.

Who is taking away tax breaks for people with hybrids? And why do we need to give tax breaks to people who give hybrids? Sounds like corporate cronyis to me, how many lobbyists does Big Hybrid have corrupting our fair minded congress people to pass favorable legislation to give them an unfair edge?

Also, if Hybrids are so fantastic, how come they need to be communistly forced upon us, and cant survive well in the open market? Is is because they suck, cost too much, and you're screwed when the fuel cell dies? Maybe.

As for Choice/pro baby killing. Well thats a personal choice, I will give you that. I am pro Infanticide up to a month or 2 into the infants growth, if you cant score an abortion before 2 months after finding out, you shouldn't be allowed a choice because the person is too retarded to make a good choice.

[MissJacksonCA]

Well if a woman is too stupid to know she's pregnant or to get an abortion after 2 months to let her keep the child and bring it to term is like saying you're going to have that child as punishment for being stupid. Which punishes the child because most women keep their children once they get pregnant. Big mistake but they do. Personally I think people need a license to be able to reproduce but hey...

I didn't know Clinton hired anyone to work for Enron but I wasn't old enough to vote for him in any of his elections anyway. And i'm not really a hugeo fan of any man who cheats on his wife with a fat ugly intern.

I prefer to go with people who view global warming as something man made. I mean its our emissions that pollute the country. Its our disinterest in cleaning up the enviroment thats only hurting future generations. We're destroying natural resources at a rapid pace and soon A Tree Grows in Suburbia wont just be a book it will be a reality. By soon i'll say 100 years. I'm not saying we're doomed i'm saying lets try to reduce our impact on the Earth.

The war in Iraq is a tremendous waste of lives and money and frankly i'm tired of my tax dollars going towards something I dont believe in. How fortunate for the republicans who make money off wars they start to be engaged in such at this time.

The government in the past year reduced the tax breaks for people with hybrids... We should give tax breaks to people who reduce their impact on the earth by creating 'green homes' and who buy hybrid or alternate fuel cell automobiles. Just I believe as we should give tax breaks to people who try to quit smoking and people who spend money to exercise in order to lose weight to maintain a healthy one. I'm all for rewarding good behavior.

[Khardis]

Well if a woman is too stupid to know she's pregnant or to get an abortion after 2 months to let her keep the child and bring it to term is like saying you're going to have that child as punishment for being stupid. Which punishes the child because most women keep their children once they get pregnant. Big mistake but they do. Personally I think people need a license to be able to reproduce but hey...

Or she could give it up to adoption. Funny how thats never one of the options given by proponents of infanticide. Its either Abortion or YOUR LIFE RUINED FOR ALL TIME! When people ask me, who would take care of the tons of kids unwanted, I can usually list off anywhere between 5-10 couples I know PERSONALLY who are on a verrrry long waiting list to adopt. As for a license to breed, well I am against that, I don't believe in fascism.

Did you know that Steve Jobs was adopted? Funny eh? Imagine if he had been murdered in the womb. I wouldn't have a fantastic IMac to talk to you on right now :(


I didn't know Clinton hired anyone to work for Enron but I wasn't old enough to vote for him in any of his elections anyway. And i'm not really a hugeo fan of any man who cheats on his wife with a fat ugly intern.

Ditto, cheaters should be steeped in shame until they die.




I prefer to go with people who view global warming as something man made. I mean its our emissions that pollute the country. Its our disinterest in cleaning up the enviroment thats only hurting future generations. We're destroying natural resources at a rapid pace and soon A Tree Grows in Suburbia wont just be a book it will be a reality. By soon i'll say 100 years. I'm not saying we're doomed i'm saying lets try to reduce our impact on the Earth.
Yes, I am familiar with the religion of Global Warming. How come you ignore all the facts though that prove that at multiple times in earths history it was warmer than it is today? The earth warms and cools, and warms and cools. In the 70s the same people screaming about the global warming insanity were screaming about global cooling. I mean, when does it end?

And who is this we you refer to? 1st world nations are much cleaner than the "utopia 3rd world" cesspools. Why is the US the big evil when it comes to man made global dooooooom but China is exempt?

Do a little research on the little Ice Age, and the Medieval Warming Period. I think you will be surprised.




The war in Iraq is a tremendous waste of lives and money
Agreed, the terrorists are wasting a lot of lives and money



and frankly i'm tired of my tax dollars going towards something I dont believe in. How fortunate for the republicans who make money off wars they start to be engaged in such at this time.

lololol Yes, you know those EVVVVVIIIIL republicans, and their war mongering just to turn a buck, why I mean remember when the Republicans started World War 2, Korea, and Vietnam to make money? Oh wait... those wars we got into because of Democrats. Whoops.

The war is noble, if they don't want to leave us be, then we will bring the fight to them. The war will end the second they decide to stop killing infidels.

And I don't believe in welfare, social security, or unemployment payments. Should we cancel those too? If you agree that we get rid of those 3, I will agree to end the war too :D Deal?



The government in the past year reduced the tax breaks for people with hybrids... We should give tax breaks to people who reduce their impact on the earth by creating 'green homes' and who buy hybrid or alternate fuel cell automobiles. Just I believe as we should give tax breaks to people who try to quit smoking and people who spend money to exercise in order to lose weight to maintain a healthy one. I'm all for rewarding good behavior.

I just dont think we should give tax breaks to people based on pseudo sciencetific garble. When they can actually prove that Global warming isnt natural and is caused only by man, then I will say hell yeah lets do something. Until then, the argument of (quoting Gore)

"The time for debate is over, we have consensus Global warming is man made and we must do something" isn't going to do it for me. Science isn't about consensus its about facts, The global warming nutters don't have any concrete facts on their side, and they cannot explain away the facts that trash their arguments.

By the way, hybrids, rock concerts, and solar panels wont solve the "crisis" that really isn't happening, even if it was. It would require us, returning to the 1700s basically. You ready to hunt, skill and skin your own food and clothing?

[darth los]

I didn't know Clinton hired anyone to work for Enron but I wasn't old enough to vote for him in any of his elections anyway. And i'm not really a hugeo fan of any man who cheats on his wife with a fat ugly intern.


It's true. If your going to cheat on your wife it should be with a smoking hot chick. :p Anything less would be uncivilized. :D

[MissJacksonCA]

Seriously if you're going to cheat on your wife make it worthwhile :p

I'm all for adoption Khardis... but the stupid girls who go out and get knocked up dont even consider abortion or adoption. I worked with a girl who got preggo and she was all like i'm going to give it up for adoption... then after 8 months she decided not to... she felt she bonded with her kid. Next my ex roomie thought she was pregnant and I told her to go to planned parenthood and think out her chocie... she couldn't even think of the possibility of not having it or not keeping it. With so many people barren or unable to have children and so many more having children they can't adequately care for its a damn shame that more people dont adopt. Personally I wont have children if I get married and we want kids we will adopt... there's too many needy children who need a stable home.

[Khardis]

Seriously if you're going to cheat on your wife make it worthwhile :p

I'm all for adoption Khardis... but the stupid girls who go out and get knocked up dont even consider abortion or adoption. I worked with a girl who got preggo and she was all like i'm going to give it up for adoption... then after 8 months she decided not to... she felt she bonded with her kid. Next my ex roomie thought she was pregnant and I told her to go to planned parenthood and think out her chocie... she couldn't even think of the possibility of not having it or not keeping it. With so many people barren or unable to have children and so many more having children they can't adequately care for its a damn shame that more people dont adopt. Personally I wont have children if I get married and we want kids we will adopt... there's too many needy children who need a stable home.

There is nothing wrong with bonding with her child and then keeping it. I say good for her. It may be tough, but every child doesn't need to grow up in the lap of luxury to become a good person. I Grew up in a cracked out housing projects in the 80s. We had shootings, murders, gang etc. My folks were dead broke poor and my dad was usually gone with his other women. My mom did a great job raising me up and she didn't even finish high school. I got my degree, went to college work well, have money and I am trying to become an entrepreneur. I know this is not what will; happen to EVERY kid raised up in a bad situation, but they arent destined to be losers either.

And If i may be a bit critical, telling someone confused about pregnancy to go to the Planned Parenthood is like telling a suicidal person to just go ahead and do it, put on some REM records and cut the night away.

You know that PP was founded by a white racist eugenicist who wanted the PP to act like a holocaust for minority women right?

And good luck with the adoption thing, I agree theres some kids who need a good home, but theres not many apparently. The waiting list is 5-10 years right now. Its why so many go to China or Vietnam to adopt.

[MissJacksonCA]

Well we dont have a PP here I used that term because it was less confusing than saying the Charleston Medical Center for Women... which is a place that offers a variety of services including counseling on what to do if you keep your child, options like adoption, and of course facts on abortion and counseling if you choose to go that route.

I'm sure my friend who kept her child will raise him/her well because she fortunately comes from a stable family and she's not a big drinker and she was reasonably well educated. But there's so many girls here who are so young and having children so young that they cant and dont take care of and it makes me sick. But whats worse is how they dont even bother to get free birth control or use condoms.

Never knew that lil factoid of PP though K.

I'll ether adopt or take in a foster child or two. I had a crap life every now and then as a kid and its screwed up any sense of security so it would be my greatest honor to restore that in a child and to raise a lil person to be a wonderful young adult and to see them thrive. I really look forward to it and heck even if I dont get married I prolly will.

[Terran]

Yes, I am familiar with the religion of Global Warming. How come you ignore all the facts though that prove that at multiple times in earths history it was warmer than it is today? The earth warms and cools, and warms and cools. In the 70s the same people screaming about the global warming insanity were screaming about global cooling. I mean, when does it end?

And who is this we you refer to? 1st world nations are much cleaner than the "utopia 3rd world" cesspools. Why is the US the big evil when it comes to man made global dooooooom but China is exempt?

Do a little research on the little Ice Age, and the Medieval Warming Period. I think you will be surprised.



I dont want to hijack this thread.....but your mentioning a lot of stuff that is already accounted for or completely debunked in the current climate change prognosis......


If you feel like reading it this site has compiled many of the common arguments used by sceptics and addresses them usually with links back to their sources.....so far I havent seen anyone sceptical of human caused global warming use an argument that is not addressed on this site...
http://illconsidered.blogspot.com/2006/02/how-to-talk-to-global-warming-sceptic.html


They Predicted Cooling in the 1970's

Objection:
The alarmists were predicting the onset of an Ice Age in the 70's, now it's warming! Why should we believe them?

Again, this is just based on a falsehood, though there is a grain of truth to it. The only thing you can do is emphasize the remarkable difference between the warnings then and the warmings now.

Answer:
It is true that there were some predictions of an "emminent ice age" in the 1970's but what does this tell us about today's warnings?

A very cursory comparison of then and now reveals a huge difference. Today, you have a widespread scientific consensus supported by national academies and all the major scientific institutions solidy behind the warning that the temperature is rising, anthropogenic CO2 is the cause and the warming will worsen unless we reduce emissions. In the 1970's, there was a book in the popular press, a few articles in popular magazines, and a small amount of scientific speculation based on the recently discovered glacial cycles and the recent slight cooling trend from air pollution blocking the sunlight. No daily headlines. No avalanche of scientific articles. No United Nations treaties and commissions. No G8 summits on the dangers.

There quite simply is no comparison, I'm sure you could find better evidence of a "consensus" of a coming alien invasion.





Do a little research on the little Ice Age, and the Medieval Warming Period. I think you will be surprised.


These two will always get you in trouble because those events are pretty well described....





Objection:
It was just as warm in the Medieval Warm Period as today, in fact Greenland was green and they were growing grapes in England.

This one often comes with additional anecdotal evidence, but it is not often useful to get into those details, just refer to the wealth of proxy studies that refute this idea.

Answer:
There is actually no good evidence that the MWP was indeed a globally warm period comparable to today. Regionally, there may have been places that did exhibit notable warmth but all of the various global proxy reconstructions agree that it is warmer now and the temperature is rising faster than at any time in the last one or even two thousand years. Anecdotal evidence like that above can never tell you a global story.

NOAA presents a whole selection of proxy studies together with the data they are based on and these can be found here: http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/paleo.html

Specifically, they have this to say about the MWP:

"The idea of a global or hemispheric "Medieval Warm Period" that was warmer than today however, has turned out to be incorrect."

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/medieval.html

In specific answer to the "grapes used to grow in England" bit, I like to point people here:

http://www.english-wine.com/index.html


We Are Just Recovering From the LIA


Objection: Today's warming is just a recovery from the Little Ice Age.

Answer: The problem with this argument is that it relies on an implicit assumption that there is some particular climate that the earth needs to be at and that given a period of globally lower temperatures, an eventual rise is inevitable. What is the scientific basis for such an assumption?

There is no evidence that such a situation exists. The climate is influenced by many factors that change or remain stable in their own ways. The current understanding of the Little Ice Age is that it was the result of a decrease in solar irradiance together with an increase in volcanic activity, blocking additional sunlight. The LIA was also not very well synchronized globally, affecting different regions at different times. There is no century scale pattern that scientists are aware of in solar output, or in volcanic activity, so there would be no reason to expect a reversal of those changes.

One other problem with appealing to a natural recovery from the LIA is that we have in fact risen to levels higher than the assumed baseline climate. So even if some recovery were to be expected, why have we now exceeded that? This argument has problems similar to the more general "it is part of a natural cycle".

[darth los]

Just give the kids to Brad and Angelina. :D

[Khardis]

Just give the kids to Brad and Angelina. :D

Or Madonna, I hear shes buying up children like hot cakes! Kids are the new black! Well minority ones are.

[MissJacksonCA]

Or Madonna, I hear shes buying up children like hot cakes! Kids are the new black! Well minority ones are.

LMAO or kids are the new pet ... remember how celebs would dress up their tiny dogs with designer duds? now they're doing it with their kids :confused: