Harry Cooper vs. Rhodes

[darth los]

My question is: Who was the bigger a hole and why were they that way? There was really no reason for rhodes to act that way imo. I can understand that cooper was under alot of pressure because the threat was imminent, literally right at the front door. Was he that way because he was concerned for his familiy's safety? I doubt that because nothing he did i that film lead me to believe he was capable of anything altruistc. He even heard barbara screaming upstairs and didn't even check to see if she needed any help, so he obviously wasn't concerned with the lives of others. He deliberately bolted for the basement and left ben on the outside to be torn apart. Ben subsequently had to break in the door and the ghouls were able to get through it a few minutes later because it was weakened. I'll buy that he wanted to protect his daughter but i got the impression that he couldn't care less about what happened to his wife or anyone else for that matter. He might have even welcomed the ghouls dragging her away. Either way it's apparent that they haven't had sex in a long while.:D

Rhodes is a different animal. Although the world was for all intents and purposes over run by the ghouls at that point he wasn't in the imminent danger that cooper was in. Was he just an ambitious officer who went on a power trip once he was in charge? Did he orchestrate Major Cooper's death? I say that because it's funny to me how an officer with that high a rank would get killed by zombies. As a matter of fact we never know what cooper died from. Rose could have very well killed him because he didn't like the way he was running things. One got the impression that cooper was much more sympathetic to the scientists and what they were trying to do than rhodes was. He also killed fisher and frankenstein in cold blood and stuffed sarah and billy in the coral to be zombie food. I don't think he ever intended to coexist peacefully with the civilians which he had nothing but contempt for. You could see that coming from the first meeting they had where logan was fashionably late.


I think rhodes by far was the bigger a hole. It wasn't for fear for his life like cooper, he did it because he could.

[Philly_SWAT]

Well, Fisher said it himself that Cooper was a "sweetheart compared to Rhodes." (an inside reference to us fans). For sure, both characters were major a-holes in their respective films. The interesting thing to me is, both could be considered heroic in their own way. I think that GAR purposely made both characters this way. Let's look at what I mean.

Cooper - In a world that is in the beginning stages of a zombie crisis, everyone gets a new "lease on life", so to speak. It doesnt matter anymore whether you were a doctor or a lawyer, or a garbage man or unemployed... the traditional view of your "worth" to society would be in a state of change. In this new world, it would be your actions, plans, and abilities to combat the zombie problem. In the beginning, like in Night, information was scarce. No one really had any idea what was happening, or what the proper course of action to take would be. No doubt most people, even those who appeared cool and level-headed, would be scared. I think it is safe to say that everyone in Night was scared at their plight. At this point, the person you are would not really change... if you were an a-hole, you would still be an a-hole. If you had a chip on your shoulder, you still would. If you were a ditsy blonde, you still would be. But what to do now? Cooper was obviously an a-hole. You could tell by his interaction with his wife Helen that they had a contenious marriage even before the zombie problem. Perhaps that contributed to his a-holeishness. In any event, he took in the events as he saw them. He saw a horde of zombies overturn his car, he saw them bite his daughter (who is now very sick), and did his best to find a safe refuge for his family. His idea was to stay in a well fortified position, the basement. Yes, he did not come upstairs when he heard Barbara screaming, but what he said was correct, for all he knew, someone was being torn apart by zombies, why risk the safety of the 5 people in the cellar to see what was going on? After a while with no new screams, he did advance into the house. He discovers Ben and Barb there, and says they should all go into the basement, where it was safe. Because of the people they were, Ben and Cooper did not get along at all right off the bat. Ben was portrayed as the "hero" of the movie, but in reality, Cooper was right. If they had all went down into the basement, they would have all survived (assuming they didnt get killed when Karen 'came back'). Regardless of his general demeanor, his plan of action was the one they should have followed. By following Ben's plan, they all ended up dead. Ironically, Ben survived the longest by following Cooper's original plan, barricading himself in the basement.

Rhodes - Again, the scientific team, along with John and Billy, are portrayed as the heros of the film. However, look at their actual actions. Fisher is having no luck taming the zeds with "beef treats". Sarah makes no progress at all that we can see in either identifying the problem or coming up with a solution. Mainly, she just takes aspirin all the time, with no care that they may need them in the future, and bitches at everyone. Dr. Frankenstein seems to be making the most progress, but we see at the end that more than likely he is sinking into insanity, talking to his mommy, possibly talking to zombies he thinks is his mommy, and is feeding the soldiers to the flesh eaters, to make them behave. The soldiers have been thrust into a "civilian" operation, with no way to contact any outside superiors. A large percent of them have been killed. They are not seeing any tangible results from the scientists (neither is the audience). Yes they are acting a-holic at times, but how would any of us act? They were getting no sex (except Miguel, and he wasnt portrayed as being down with the rest of the soldiers), no intelligence, and had no hope. John and Billy were basically not helping anyone but themselves, except toward the end, and then only after John gave Sarah his "lets make some babies" speech. It stands to reason he wanted a little piece just as bad as the soldiers. As far as the "how did Cooper die" scenario, there is a lot I could say about that, but this is already a long post. We have to assume that Cooper was at least still trying to let the research team find some answers, but from what Fisher says, he wasnt exactly their biggest fan, so when Rhodes takes over, he decides to step up the "I wanna know what the f*ck youre doing with my time" line of reasoning. Little, if any, progress seemed to be going on in the cave as far as solving the problem goes, and it is totally understandable his frustration. Yes, he was an a-hole about it, but in the end, his men were dying, no answers were coming, and being stuck in that cave would totally suck for everyone. Seeing as they were on an island, perhaps they should have just went and "shot the piss out of" the zeds, cleared the island, and starting soaking up some sun.

As far as who was the biggest a-hole, I would say Rhodes, but his character was more developed than Cooper, and Joe Pilato really embraced the role.

[MissJacksonCA]

without getting into it... i thought rhodes was the bigger a hole

[Khardis]

I guess it depends on your definition of A-hole. If I was Rhodes I would have cancelled the scientific crap the second I assumed command and abandoned the post for some safer place. If the Scientists didnt want to leave, then they could stay alone without military aid.

They were bleeding men and supplies like crazy and here are these moron eggheads telling them they need to stick around because they may or may not find some kind of fix to the situation. Turns out there was no fix at all. Bub was 1 in a million and just because he didn't eat Frankenstein it doesn't mean he wouldn't eat anyone else.

I say Rhodes was completely justified in his attitude towards them and his anger towards being there babysitting them.

Cooper on the other hand, while an ahole wasn't any more of an ahole really than Ben, they were just both Alpha male types and both wanted to control the situation so they butt heads constantly. We just sympathize with Ben more because he was the main guy really. I personally sympathize with Cooper, the cellar was safer, and he was really only trying to protect his daughter.

[coma]

Definately Rhodes.

Coopers main mistake was the "make your choice, upstairs or down. Im not opening the door" and all his B.S.ing about not hearing Barbara screaming. He was obviously a Jackass and he DID try to feed Ben to the Zombies.

But the Scientific team may have been humanities last hope and orders are suppossed to be paramount to a serviceman. The orders were to help the SCIENTIFIC team and they DIDNT have to like it. RHodes had no concern for his own men and only liked the control and obviously wasnt fit or qualified for that posisition. And all the Rape inferences show that clearly as well as his treatment of Miguel (Is that his name, I am forgetting) and his abandonment of Steele, Rhodes and Torres (?) at the end. Rhodes couldve said "continue with your experiments, but we arent fetching anymore Zombies, you are on your own with that".

[sandrock74]

I think both guys have their seperate issues. I think Cooper acted on fear and Rhodes, remember folks, he was dealing with the situation for far longer! Years longer in fact!
I think Rhodes was right in wanting to pull the plug on the scientific venture. Still, he was giving them time to show him something before he made it official. He just wasn't remotely polite about how he went about saying and doing things.
Cooper was working under the assumption that help was coming, which it was, while Rhodes knew no help was around. I think he would've been happy securing the island and not having to deal with zombies for awhile. Take a "vacation" and come up with a plan.
Both were a-holes but both had their points...

[darth los]

I think both guys have their seperate issues. I think Cooper acted on fear and Rhodes, remember folks, he was dealing with the situation for far longer! Years longer in fact!
I think Rhodes was right in wanting to pull the plug on the scientific venture. Still, he was giving them time to show him something before he made it official. He just wasn't remotely polite about how he went about saying and doing things.
Cooper was working under the assumption that help was coming, which it was, while Rhodes knew no help was around. I think he would've been happy securing the island and not having to deal with zombies for awhile. Take a "vacation" and come up with a plan.
Both were a-holes but both had their points...

We really have no idea how long they were in that silo. The original day script had it happening 5 years after the start of the plauge. However, no mention is made in the actual film as to a time frame. it could have been 6 months for all we know. I don't think it was years because for one thing the soldiers were distraught at the fact that they had stopped getting paid. Surely they would have stopped being compensated long ago if they were down there for years.

[Philly_SWAT]

But the Scientific team may have been humanities last hope and orders are suppossed to be paramount to a serviceman. The orders were to help the SCIENTIFIC team and they DIDNT have to like it. RHodes had no concern for his own men and only liked the control and obviously wasnt fit or qualified for that posisition.
As the current situation in Irag demonstrates, it is a poor position to take militarily to just "stay the course" with no "victory" in sight. Yes, they were supposed to support the scientific team, however, with communications cut off, for all they knew if their superiors were still alive they wanted the mission changed. And as society degrades from order to chaos, the typical military structure would surely break down, just as the police structure broke down after only 3 weeks in Dawn. Plus, the military is obligated to not follow "immoral orders", so even under real life conditions, soldiers are sometimes supposed to question their orders.


I think both guys have their seperate issues. I think Cooper acted on fear and Rhodes, remember folks, he was dealing with the situation for far longer! Years longer in fact!

I agree that it was years that they were dealing with the problem. Cooper had no reason to think (and neither did Ben) that help wasnt coming, Rhodes had every reason to think that help wasnt coming.


I don't think it was years because for one thing the soldiers were distraught at the fact that they had stopped getting paid. Surely they would have stopped being compensated long ago if they were down there for years.
I took it that they had stopped being compensated long ago. The first guy says "I'm not getting paid enough for this $hit", just a common phrase, not even necesarily connected to actual pay (or lack thereof). The next guy says "Paid? I'm not getting paid at all" while laughing, and another says in the background "Paid? Youre getting paid?" (or something like that). I think it was more of a joke that they hadnt been paid in a long time, and were just having fun at the fact the first commented that he wasnt getting paid "enough". After all, what were they going to do with money if they were getting paid? "Lot's of real estate at close out prices, man".

[acealive1]

i'd have to side with rhodes. at least he'd fire a gun or help. just make him think he's in charge and dont mind him

[darth los]

I took it that they had stopped being compensated long ago. The first guy says "I'm not getting paid enough for this $hit", just a common phrase, not even necesarily connected to actual pay (or lack thereof). The next guy says "Paid? I'm not getting paid at all" while laughing, and another says in the background "Paid? Youre getting paid?" (or something like that). I think it was more of a joke that they hadnt been paid in a long time, and were just having fun at the fact the first commented that he wasnt getting paid "enough". After all, what were they going to do with money if they were getting paid? "Lot's of real estate at close out prices, man".


Or you could take it as "you mean you got your check this month, funny mine hasn't arrived yet." Rickles was laughing about it but the others didn't think it was too funny. If that was indeed the case the plauge must nat have been that far along because they still believed money was important and had value. It's all about perspective and how people interpret the scene. We both could very well be right and more that likely will never know for sure. It sure Gives us alot to debate about doesn't it?


i'd have to side with rhodes. at least he'd fire a gun or help. just make him think he's in charge and dont mind him

What did rhodes ever do to give you the impression that he would help anyone. You saw how he left his men high and dry at the end. If they had stuck together they could have definitely made it to the back in one piece. He was nothing but a coward and a bully.

[RustyHicks]

I don't know, hard choice.
Coope and Rhodes were both arrogant
and cowards at heart.
Cooper left Ben outside and he wouldn't
lift a finger to help out with anything.
Tom and Ben did all the work.

Rhodes loved to throw his weight around and
fill his ego up, but all the hot air flying from
his mouth you still see he's a chicken at heart.
Look at how he got one of his men to shoot Sarah,
it was only Johnny who saved her.
When it came time to beat John up, did he become tough
and do it himself. Nope, he got steele to do it.
Rhodes was evil at heart, he would stab anyone in
the back to get ahead and save his own ass,
without or without a zombie plague going on.

Cooper, I would go with cooper. He may have been
scared and with reason, he hasn't encountered anything
like this and didn't know what do to. He didn't have the
training that Rhodes had, he delt with things as they were
thrown at him and may have seemed wicket and evil,
he was just scared for himself, his wife and his child.

[Philly_SWAT]

Or you could take it as "you mean you got your check this month, funny mine hasn't arrived yet." Rickles was laughing about it but the others didn't think it was too funny. If that was indeed the case the plauge must nat have been that far along because they still believed money was important and had value. It's all about perspective and how people interpret the scene. We both could very well be right and more that likely will never know for sure. It sure Gives us alot to debate about doesn't it?I dont think you can take it that way. There is nothing to give the impression that they have had contact with anyone for a long time, much less received any type of re-supply. Highly unlikely that someone would send a plane with paychecks without also including some new radio equipment, equipment that wasnt plagues with "dry-rot and rust". And I dont think they had any ability to check their direct deposit in those days, much less under those conditions. Also, I think that the others did think it was funny. They were are smoking some weed at that point, and appeared very jovial to me.



What did rhodes ever do to give you the impression that he would help anyone. You saw how he left his men high and dry at the end. If they had stuck together they could have definitely made it to the back in one piece. He was nothing but a coward and a bully.
Good point about leaving his men high and dry. Although, Rickles and Steele probably could have ran faster than that golf cart, rather than just standing there yelling "RHOOOODES!". Golf carts are designed to save your energy from having to exert energy from walking, not to haul ass. But you are right. Rhodes even locked the door behind him, making it neccesary for Steele to shoot it open, thus allowing the hordes in. That alone should elevate Rhodes to A-hole of the year over Cooper.

[darth los]

Good point about leaving his men high and dry. Although, Rickles and Steele probably could have ran faster than that golf cart, rather than just standing there yelling "RHOOOODES!". Golf carts are designed to save your energy from having to exert energy from walking, not to haul ass. But you are right. Rhodes even locked the door behind him, making it neccesary for Steele to shoot it open, thus allowing the hordes in. That alone should elevate Rhodes to A-hole of the year over Cooper.

As a matter of fact, steel's fat ass did make it to the door. Torres didn't have any weapons so he was automatically screwed. One has to wonder what qualities elevated rhodes to the rank of capt. It was apparent that he was awful under pressure and din't seem like a very effective leader to me. Alos, even if they did make it into that hallway area they seemed to besurrounded on all sides by zeds. They couldn't leave if they wanted to. They could however stock up on as much guns and ammo as they could and systematically kill them off with the door that rhodes opened before he was ripped apart as the choke off point. There couldn't have been more than 200-300 of those things down there if how many that came down on the elevator was any indication. But what would they have done then? The chopper would have been long gone. I hope they like sausage !! :barf:

[Philly_SWAT]

One has to wonder what qualities elevated rhodes to the rank of capt.
One has to wonder the same thing about our current President.......

[darth los]

One has to wonder the same thing about our current President.......

Philly, that has to be the realest sh8t you ever wrote. Finally something we can agree on.

[acealive1]

i didnt know u could get a job even at mc donalds if u went awol from the military. lords knows bush bought the damn election. and these "if it aint white" southerners just had to vote for him.

[Yojimbo]

Sorry, but without question would rather hang with Cooper than Rhodes.

At least Cooper exhibited moments of cooperation with the group (he mentioned the gas keys in the basement, for example) Rhodes was out for himself the whole time.

Cooper was a cowardly jerk, to be sure, which is why he left Ben outside for the zombies, and also why he didn't try to save screaming Barbara . But I did not interpret that as a concious power play decision. With Rhodes, such an act would have been deliberate and motivated by avarice.

[darth los]

i didnt know u could get a job even at mc donalds if u went awol from the military. lords knows bush bought the damn election. and these "if it aint white" southerners just had to vote for him.

HUH? :confused:

[Philly_SWAT]

HUH? :confused:
LOL, I was thinking the same thing!

[darth los]

LOL, I was thinking the same thing!

There's alot of pent up anger in that post. :lol: I think it's best to leave him be.

[acealive1]

or learn to read :) what i meant was bush went awol from the military. YOU CANNOT GET A JOB IN THE USA IF YOU GO AWOL. also this country is flaming racist. u cant see it, u must be one of them

[darth los]

or learn to read :) what i meant was bush went awol from the military. YOU CANNOT GET A JOB IN THE USA IF YOU GO AWOL. also this country is flaming racist. u cant see it, u must be one of them

Thanks for the clarification. Only in america can a c student be president. That office is supposed to be reserved for the best and brightest. But think about it, who's dumber? The idiot in office or the asshats who voted him in?

[acealive1]

son of a whisker biscuit. my apologies if ur not from the states.

[MissJacksonCA]

Rhodes seemed like the guy that would shoot everyone in the knee caps in order to get the zombies to eat them so he could have a head start outrunning them. He had some major power trip issues going on as well and was a total Tool. Nothing about him said soldier except for his uniform.

[sandrock74]

Don't blame me, I didn't vote for Bush. I gave up on the two party system. I went Libertarian!

[MissJacksonCA]

whats a whisker biscuit?

[darth los]

whats a whisker biscuit?

:lol:

And who you calling a foreigner? :shifty:

[Philly_SWAT]

or learn to read :) what i meant was bush went awol from the military. YOU CANNOT GET A JOB IN THE USA IF YOU GO AWOL. also this country is flaming racist. u cant see it, u must be one of them
I am better speaking ebonics than reading it, I guess! :D

I'm not sure that Bush went awol, those reports were redacted.

[acealive1]

I am better speaking ebonics than reading it, I guess! :D

I'm not sure that Bush went awol, those reports were redacted.

redacted=blackedout

[mista_mo]

anyway...


At the start of Day, Rhodes genuingly seemed to be looking out for the interests of the men under his command. It could have easily been a charade to gain their trust and what not, we don't know, what we do know is that he got all of them killed in the end.

cooper, I feel, was acting out for his daughter. He was primarily concerned with her safety and welfare, and was so distraught over her beign sick and badly injured that he would do anything to protect her (parentel protection instincts could have over ridden everythign else in his mind)

[RustyHicks]

I still say Rhodes was the greatest a-hole of the whole
series. His only concern was himself, anyone else could
go to hell. He loved power and control, that's why he
liked his men, but when push came to shove did he help
his other soldiers like the buddies they were suppose to be.
He left them high and dry and he'd do the same thing
too if there wasn't a zombie plague. Just to save his
own behind.

[acealive1]

rhodes sees u as a threat,u just upped ur chances of him having ur back

[darth los]

So i guess the consensus is that the bigger ahole was rhodes. There seems to be more sympathy for cooper because we believe that he was just scared, in imminent danger and was just looking to protect his family. Rhodes had no such excuses.


But i'll tell you guys something. There's not a more memorable character in the series imo. The performance delivered by pilato was incomparable. Who would have thought he could do that after seeing him in dawn. I think he was absolutely awful in that film. He must have took some acting lessons because in day he stole the show. You have to be really good in order to make people genuinely hate your character.

[mista_mo]

he was the best actor in the entire dead series imo...he without a doubt, pulled off Rhodes flawlessly, and his last lines were amoung, if not the most, memorable ones in the entire series (i remember it along with when theres no more romm in hell....etc.).


I wanted to see his character dead and i haven't been so hateful towards a character in any movie i've seen.

[darth los]

I wanted to see his character dead and i haven't been so hateful towards a character in any movie i've seen.

I think that any actor would take that as a tremendous compliment.

[sandrock74]

I said it before and I will say it again...Capt. Rhodes is my favorite villain from the Dead series!

[darth los]

I said it before and I will say it again...Capt. Rhodes is my favorite villain from the Dead series!

I think it's a pity that no one could deliver a similar performance in land. I think that would have helped the film tremendously. Everyone in land seemed too bland or jaded for my taste.

[mista_mo]

yep he did it great..made his character seem dumb (come on, if someone uses cuss words so much it makes it seem like they are of subnormal intelligence), hateful, remoarseless, and generally a prick, who puts up a show of being the man in charge and being "unbreakable". However, when the platform with the zombies came down, all of that melted and you could see the terror in his face.


He is part of the reason why i think Day is the best movie in the dead series.

[sandrock74]

I forgot to mention this...
In the series Marvel Zombies by Marvel Comics, when Magneto is attacked and eaten by the zombified heroes, he shouts, "Choke on it!" as the zombie Hulk rips his leg off and eats it.
A sad end to a good villain....but a clear refference to Rhodes.

[darth los]

yep he did it great..made his character seem dumb (come on, if someone uses cuss words so much it makes it seem like they are of subnormal intelligence), hateful, remoarseless, and generally a prick, who puts up a show of being the man in charge and being "unbreakable". However, when the platform with the zombies came down, all of that melted and you could see the terror in his face.


He is part of the reason why i think Day is the best movie in the dead series.

I think the constant curse-a-thon was one of the charms of that movie. You would think that it would get monotonous after a while but it seemed nescessary and fit the situation perfectly.


I forgot to mention this...
In the series Marvel Zombies by Marvel Comics, when Magneto is attacked and eaten by the zombified heroes, he shouts, "Choke on it!" as the zombie Hulk rips his leg off and eats it.
A sad end to a good villain....but a clear refference to Rhodes.

It wouldn't be the first time that people "paid homage" to gar in a film or book.

[Philly_SWAT]

But i'll tell you guys something. There's not a more memorable character in the series imo. The performance delivered by pilato was incomparable. Who would have thought he could do that after seeing him in dawn. I think he was absolutely awful in that film. He must have took some acting lessons because in day he stole the show. You have to be really good in order to make people genuinely hate your character.
I dont see how you could say that he was "absolutely horrible" in Dawn. He had about the smallest part possible, which no chance to "show" us anything.


I think it's a pity that no one could deliver a similar performance in land. I think that would have helped the film tremendously. Everyone in land seemed too bland or jaded for my taste.Well, I think that Joe Pilato was just doing his won thing, which GAR is famous for letting an actor do. Land had a big "Hollywood" involvement, and I'm sure the actors there didnt want to take a chance on trying to stand out, in case that attempt failed and they looked bad.


I think the constant curse-a-thon was one of the charms of that movie. You would think that it would get monotonous after a while but it seemed nescessary and fit the situation perfectly.
I dont know about everyone else, but if I was in that situation, I highly doubt that I would be on my best polite behavior. I'm sure that I would be cursing up a storm.

[coma]

I dont know about everyone else, but if I was in that situation, I highly doubt that I would be on my best polite behavior. I'm sure that I would be cursing up a storm.
And of course its really, really unusual for a soldier to use foul language

"Curse like a sailor" anyone?

:eek::p

[mista_mo]

I ment how he said f*ck every sentance.

it made his character seem uneducated (which it does to people in real life as well)

[darth los]

I ment how he said f*ck every sentance.

it made his character seem uneducated (which it does to people in real life as well)

That's somehow funny to me. It's the only reason i watched jay and silent bob at all. That cursing just because you can thing is hilarious. I think gar used it to accent the stress of the situation.

[mista_mo]

oh, i know that, but i'm saying it also made rhodes come off as uneducated.

[jim102016]

oh, i know that, but i'm saying it also made rhodes come off as uneducated.

Everyone uses foul language at one time or another. Someone in the military is just as prone as anyone else in society. I don't think Rhodes was wrong in dropping the F' bomb so much, I think it added to the situation as well. He's at the end of his rope, nearing a breakdown. Anyone in that situation who could control his language enough to say "heck", "darn" and "golly gee" while millions waited outside to eat his flesh is unrealistic.

[mista_mo]

again, the point of what i'm saying is being missed.


I agree 100% that it added to the stress of the situation, but what i'm saying is he came off as stupid becasue he couldn't say a sentance without saying f*ck.

it's true in real life as well; Those who swear alot, and use it as a verb, noun, adverb, and adjective seem stupid. They may not be dumb, but they seem really stupid when they swear that much.

[darth los]

Cursing is also not exactly the best way to get your point across to another faction of people who's minds you want to change. If anything it makes them apprehensive and more resistant to what you're trying to say even if you're right.

[Brubaker]

It is easy to say Cooper was the nicer of the two men, seeing that he was trapped in the house with two family members who he was protective of. Rhodes wasn't related to anyone in that bunker. Besides he stated over and over again that he was tired of losing men. His interest in the beginning was keeping his men around because his idea was to get out of dodge, while blowing the piss out of the zombies. Not a bad idea.

The scientists involved had far worse ideas than Rhodes. Let's not gas the chopper. Let's stay underground. Let's keep rounding up zombies which proves to be the death of Miller, Johnson and Salazar all in one fell swoop.

If they had decided to leave the bunkers, assuming Rhodes had been generous enough to let everybody go along, all of those people who got shot or turned into zombie chow would have still been alive.

[Mike70]

Everyone uses foul language at one time or another. Someone in the military is just as prone as anyone else in society. I don't think Rhodes was wrong in dropping the F' bomb so much, I think it added to the situation as well. He's at the end of his rope, nearing a breakdown. Anyone in that situation who could control his language enough to say "heck", "darn" and "golly gee" while millions waited outside to eat his flesh is unrealistic.

pretty much trapped underground. surrounded by millions of undead all of whom would love to turn you into human tartar. i can't think of a situation where foul language would be more appropriate.

mo does have a point though - rhodes (and the soliders in general) do come across as a very unsophisticated, cretinistic (i think i might have invented a word) bunch of fellows. certainly none of them are...Rhodes scholar material (arf arf arf-i'll be here all week).

nice piece of necromancy brubaker.

[Brubaker]

nice piece of necromancy brubaker.

You've stumped me there, is that supposed to mean I made a good point? Ha ha.

To me, the only bad ideas Rhodes had were.....

1. Not giving Salazar the rest he probably needed. Make Torrez pitch in when they round up zombies. We never saw him do it once, every soldier but Torrez and Rhodes went out there to get them during the movie.

2. Not saluting Bub. I don't know how it would have helped in the long run to salute him but it obviously got to Bub when Rhodes blew off the salute.

What I find amusing is that the military men were depending on civilians to run radio equipment and fly a chopper. Isn't that the sort of thing military men are training in when they are not "at war"? If this was a real life scenario, there would be at least one soldier who knew how to operate/fix the radio or fly a chopper. They probably wouldn't need people off the street doing it.

The civilians & scientists were the biggest a-holes in that bunker. The idea of Logan using soldiers for experiments or food didn't bother them in the slightest, even though they could have had the same fate if they died, and the idea of it is sicker than anything Rhodes did.

[DubiousComforts]

The civilians & scientists were the biggest a-holes in that bunker. The idea of Logan using soldiers for experiments or food didn't bother them in the slightest, even though they could have had the same fate if they died, and the idea of it is sicker than anything Rhodes did.
Did you actually watch the movie? Sarah and McDermott were horrified to learn that Logan had been using the bodies for food. It was clearly the film's "game over" moment. Sarah would have gagged had Rhodes not charged in like a maniac.

We also have no idea if Logan chopped up the one civilian casualty for zombie food. Most likely, he had been doing it right along. We only saw him using the soldiers' corpses because more of them had died--apparently due to their own stupidity than anything else.

[Mike70]

You've stumped me there, is that supposed to mean I made a good point? Ha ha.

no i mean you brought an old thread back to life in a way that wasn't chinzy.

about the scientists and civilians:
one of the things i've always wondered is why no one else was taught how to fly the helicopter. it seems like they had plenty of fuel on hand. having john be the only one who knows how to fly doesn't seem to make much survival sense.


Did you actually watch the movie? Sarah and McDermott were horrified to learn that Logan had been using the bodies for food. It was clearly the film's "game over" moment. Sarah would have gagged had Rhodes not charged in like a maniac.


and i think that fisher, given what we knew about his character, would've been equally horrified. saying that it didn't bother any of them in slightest is way, way off from what we actually saw.

[DubiousComforts]

and i think that fisher, given what we knew about his character, would've been equally horrified. saying that it didn't bother any of them in slightest is way, way off from what we actually saw.
I agree. Rhodes murdered two people, ordered the deaths of two more, and abandoned his own men as zombie food. He threatened to have Sarah killed, and when Steele didn't go through with it, he threatened to kill him, too. What Logan did was horrible, but Rhodes was a violent thug that didn't respect the sanctity of life, so why should anyone care he thought of "his men" in death?

Helen Cooper: "Those PEOPLE aren't our enemies."
Dr. Millard Rausch: "There can be no more divisions among the LIVING!"

DAY is the ultimate example of people not being able to get along with each other.

[Brubaker]

Did you actually watch the movie? Sarah and McDermott were horrified to learn that Logan had been using the bodies for food. It was clearly the film's "game over" moment. Sarah would have gagged had Rhodes not charged in like a maniac.

We also have no idea if Logan chopped up the one civilian casualty for zombie food. Most likely, he had been doing it right along. We only saw him using the soldiers' corpses because more of them had died--apparently due to their own stupidity than anything else.

Of course I watched the movie. Why else would I be registered here? For the fun of it?

Rhodes was made out to be a bad guy for killing Logan and nobody seemed to be the least bit understanding that he would be pissed about the doctor chopping up soldiers.

Common sense would dictate that one of them would apologize for it somewhere along the line, even one of the civilians who wasn't responsible. Just like the civilians & scientists didn't have decency to say a word about two of Rhodes men getting killed on a mission to aid the scientists and civilians by providing zombies for the lab.

They weren't the least bit understanding of why Rhodes and Steele were furious about Miguel's screw up. The only comment we got was "Well that evens the odds" or something to that effect. Before Miller and Johnson were offed, Rhodes had already lost 5 men. Now he had seven casualties. No scientist or civilian bothered to be the better person by offering an apology or sympathy. Did you see any? What sort of reply did Rhodes get when he explained 5 soldiers had been lost compared to one scientist?

You try running a military operation, losing 7 men and having a good attitude towards people who you are providing protection for when those people don't acknowledge all of those deaths because they are self-absorbed.

[Mike70]

Common sense would dictate that one of them would apologize for it somewhere along the line, even one of the civilians who wasn't responsible.

why should the others apologize for something they had nothing to do with, didn't condone and were rightly disgusted by?

such an apology would be utterly meaningless and might also give the impression that the rest of the scientists were somehow in on what logan was doing.

[Brubaker]

why should the others apologize for something they had nothing to do with, didn't condone and were rightly disgusted by?

So six men being lost (excluding Cooper who was one of the original five mentioned), mostly on missions to benefit the scientists. Yet nobody has enough respect to acknowledge any of their deaths. You'd have a hard time explaining what Miller or Johnson ever did to McDermott, John, Sarah, Logan, Fisher, etc. where their deaths are written off as evening the odds. Who did Rhodes physically hurt with his bullying before he opened fire on Logan, since I doubt he had anything to do with that one death on the science team? Time's up.

[DubiousComforts]

Rhodes was made out to be a bad guy for killing Logan and nobody seemed to be the least bit understanding that he would be pissed about the doctor chopping up soldiers.
Nobody seemed the least bit understanding because Rhodes was too busy pointing guns at them, followed by blasting Fisher's head off. Rhodes immediately blamed all the scientists for Logan's butchery; an apology wouldn't have made any difference because he was insane. Damn straight he was the "bad guy."



They weren't the least bit understanding of why Rhodes and Steele were furious about Miguel's screw up. The only comment we got was "Well that evens the odds" or something to that effect.
Why should anyone be understanding when both Rhodes' and Steele's primary method of communication was to point guns first and talk later? As usual, Steele was threatening everyone with a semi-automatic weapon when John said "well, that just about evens the odds among us." It wasn't the first time, and most normal people would have been less diplomatic.

Rhodes didn't even care about his own men. Miguel needed serious medical attention and Rhodes laughed it off. And Miguel didn't "screw up," he was simply blamed for screwing up by the big-mouths--obviously the operative group dynamic of Rhodes' clusterf*ck of a military unit. Rhodes couldn't spare a single man, yet he sat around while his men boozed and doped, and then wonders why there are so many casualties.

[Mike70]

So six men being lost (excluding Cooper who was one of the original five mentioned), mostly on missions to benefit the scientists. Yet nobody has enough respect to acknowledge any of their deaths. You'd have a hard time explaining what Miller or Johnson ever did to McDermott, John, Sarah, Logan, Fisher, etc. where their deaths are written off as evening the odds. Who did Rhodes physically hurt with his bullying before he opened fire on Logan, since I doubt he had anything to do with that one death on the science team? Time's up.

sorry but you followed your comment about rhodes killing logan with the comment about apologizing.

i still don't see what an apology would do. i doubt that to people like rhodes and steele it would even have any meaning.

[jim102016]

You've stumped me there, is that supposed to mean I made a good point? Ha ha.

To me, the only bad ideas Rhodes had were.....

1. Not giving Salazar the rest he probably needed. Make Torrez pitch in when they round up zombies. We never saw him do it once, every soldier but Torrez and Rhodes went out there to get them during the movie.

2. Not saluting Bub. I don't know how it would have helped in the long run to salute him but it obviously got to Bub when Rhodes blew off the salute.

What I find amusing is that the military men were depending on civilians to run radio equipment and fly a chopper. Isn't that the sort of thing military men are training in when they are not "at war"? If this was a real life scenario, there would be at least one soldier who knew how to operate/fix the radio or fly a chopper. They probably wouldn't need people off the street doing it.

The civilians & scientists were the biggest a-holes in that bunker. The idea of Logan using soldiers for experiments or food didn't bother them in the slightest, even though they could have had the same fate if they died, and the idea of it is sicker than anything Rhodes did.

Those were desperate times, maybe they just couldn't find or spare a uniformed helicopter pilot or communications expert. The mission was put together in a matter of days as they say in the movie, perhaps the soldiers were yanked out of different units as availability allowed. What kind of units, god only knows. There wasn't much real life authentication put into the actor's uniforms, so its hard to tell.

As far as bringing in civilians in to fill roles traditionally held by members of the armed forces, its called contracting. You'd be amazed at how common it is in the modern U.S. military. There just aren't enough bodies, hasn't been since the early 90s.

[Brubaker]

I am having worse luck in this thread than Rhodes himself in the final showdown. I think I may need to regroup.

[DubiousComforts]

I am having worse luck in this thread than Rhodes himself in the final showdown. I think I may need to regroup.
Ha! Just don't abandon everyone by speeding off in one of those golf cart thingies. :D

[Brubaker]

Actually I should have said I had worse luck than Torrez. The dude was beat up by either Miller or Johnson during that night time fight scene when Sarah was walking by their quarters, he got a black eye from John, lost 2 guns to John (a machine gun & pistol) and was left by Rhodes, Steele and Rickles without a single weapon.

That was all before he got torn apart. Plus he only had one line all movie, which was outside the complex when he asked Sarah, John and Bill what they found. Though he might have been the offscreen soldier (not pictured) telling McDermott that "there have got to be other groups out there like us." I've always assumed the voice was Rickles or Miller, though.

[jim102016]

Actually I should have said I had worse luck than Torrez. The dude was beat up by either Miller or Johnson during that night time fight scene when Sarah was walking by their quarters, he got a black eye from John, lost 2 guns to John (a machine gun & pistol) and was left by Rhodes, Steele and Rickles without a single weapon.

That was all before he got torn apart. Plus he only had one line all movie, which was outside the complex when he asked Sarah, John and Bill what they found. Though he might have been the offscreen soldier (not pictured) telling McDermott that "there have got to be other groups out there like us." I've always assumed the voice was Rickles or Miller, though.


Torrez lost a RIFLE and a pistol to John! I thought it was Rickles who said there had to be other groups out there like them?

[Suicycho]

Cooper crumbled to pieces from the start. He was a spineless worm. He was too far self absorbed to even notice that he was being an asshole.

Rhodes, on the other hand had been dealing with it for quite sometime and been down in a cave underground, going stir crazy for months, probably years. We only get to witness the last couple of days of this pressure cooker, when everybody snaps.

Rhodes was enjoying terrorizing Sarah and crew.

So I would have to go with Rhodes.

[DubiousComforts]

Actually I should have said I had worse luck than Torrez. The dude was beat up by either Miller or Johnson during that night time fight scene when Sarah was walking by their quarters, he got a black eye from John, lost 2 guns to John (a machine gun & pistol) and was left by Rhodes, Steele and Rickles without a single weapon.

That was all before he got torn apart.
In DAWN, that same actor is torn apart as a motorcycle raider, shot multiple times by Fran as ghoul, punched in the face by Roger as another ghoul, and shot in the face twice by Flyboy as a female ghoul.

Romero's filmmaking motto: Abuse your pals! :D

[Legion2213]

Ha! Just don't abandon everyone by speeding off in one of those golf cart thingies. :D

LMFAO! :lol:

Rhodes is "teh cool" anyways. Best GAR character ever IMO.

[Brubaker]

Torrez lost a RIFLE and a pistol to John! I thought it was Rickles who said there had to be other groups out there like them?

Rifle, machine gun. Whatever. I've never been in the army. My point is he lost two guns to John in the space of 5 minutes, which is not only bad luck but a stinging indictment on his abilities as a soldier.

Besides I just said above that I assumed it was Rickles who said that line I mentioned, meaning that Torrez has all of one line in the movie unless you count the noises he made when he got thrown out into the hallway by another soldier, punched out by John and torn apart by zombies.

[jim102016]

Rifle, machine gun. Whatever. I've never been in the army. My point is he lost two guns to John in the space of 5 minutes, which is not only bad luck but a stinging indictment on his abilities as a soldier.

Besides I just said above that I assumed it was Rickles who said that line I mentioned, meaning that Torrez has all of one line in the movie unless you count the noises he made when he got thrown out into the hallway by another soldier, punched out by John and torn apart by zombies.

RIFLE! Come on Brubaker, weren't you at least a 'video soldier' on one of those war games the youngsters get a kick out of playing? Anyway, I wouldn't say it was his inability as a soldier that lost him his weapons. John was a cornered rat, he acted out of desperation. I thought his best line was the noises he made as his head got ripped off!

[Brubaker]

RIFLE! Come on Brubaker, weren't you at least a 'video soldier' on one of those war games the youngsters get a kick out of playing? Anyway, I wouldn't say it was his inability as a soldier that lost him his weapons. John was a cornered rat, he acted out of desperation. I thought his best line was the noises he made as his head got ripped off!

Uh, no. I don't play first person shooters or war games. I play the new football, baseball and basketball titles each year.

Really what is with the insults over me calling it a machine gun? I don't even own a friggin' gun and it is silly to assume every single person watching will be able to distinguish exactly what type of gun it is. It just seems a little overboard to browbeat me for 2-3 consecutive posts over the fact that it is a rifle, which I had no way of knowing.

Give it a rest, I made a damn mistake. OK? This is exactly why I hadn't posted for 2-3 months.

[jim102016]

Uh, no. I don't play first person shooters or war games. I play the new football, baseball and basketball titles each year.

Really what is with the insults over me calling it a machine gun? I don't even own a friggin' gun and it is silly to assume every single person watching will be able to distinguish exactly what type of gun it is. It just seems a little overboard to browbeat me for 2-3 consecutive posts over the fact that it is a rifle, which I had no way of knowing.

Give it a rest, I made a damn mistake. OK? This is exactly why I hadn't posted for 2-3 months.

Keep your pants on Brubaker, I'm just busting your balls. No harm intended.

[Brubaker]

Keep your pants on Brubaker, I'm just busting your balls. No harm intended.

My pants better be on, otherwise I'd be in deep trouble. I am logging in here this morning from work :D

[darth los]

Let's have it guys.

[Dillinger]

Rhodes was a bigger asshole, but an asshole in a cool way. Cooper, on the other hand, was a cowardly bastard.

[AcesandEights]

I thought his best line was the noises he made as his head got ripped off!

I always found that part and the shrill screaming utterly spine tingling and I often wondered if any post production went into that noise.

[Bub666]

Rhodes was definately the bigger a hole.

[Publius]

Really what is with the insults over me calling it a machine gun?

It was an M16, wasn't it? In that case, you're both right. :P

[darth los]

It was an M16, wasn't it? In that case, you're both right. :P

Like i needed an excuse to watch this film again. :rolleyes:

Oh well, a man's gotta do....

[Andy]

added a poll :)