Interesting Article in Scientific America about a world without humans:

[Dawg]

Dead related? Could be if there were only mindless zombies wandering around.

There were paintings and computer renderings of what our world would look like if humans disappeared over night. It showed and told in a timeline of what would probably happen.

One of the first things in New York City would consist of the subway system flooding because humans are suppose to operate a system where it gets drained out or it floods within 48 hours.

When cracks appear in the pavement, water will seep down into it and in the winter the crack expands and then seeds will blow down into it and pretty soon of course you have grass growing and eventually trees.

Skyscrapers may look tough, but when the foundations flood because of the subway and underground rivers, etc, they will start to corrode and those tall buildings will come down, clearing other buildings in their path.

Wildlife will start to take the streets back.

Many buildings may burn to the ground from a lightening strike.

Roofs will rot and collapse on houses within 100 years.

They even went thousands and millions of years into the future. The only thing that will survive for a long time would be plastics and some metal statues, etc.

A new ice age will level any remaining buildings and eventually new species will appear.

Our sun will become larger and burn up planets closer to it.

Then the only thing remaining of the human race will be episodes of the Twilight Zone and other broadcasts in faint, fragmented signals carried forever out into the far reaches of space.

Makes you wonder if there will modern society here millions of years before, doesn't it?

:dead: Dawg

[EvilNed]

In original Time Machine novel, H.G. Wells predicts a similar future very accurately. Infact, the last few chapters of that book are my favourite, when the time traveler goes into the far future of millions of years. The sun grows larger and warmer, and what was once England is turned into a tropical climate.

[darth los]

Then the only thing remaining of the human race will be episodes of the Twilight Zone and other broadcasts in faint, fragmented signals carried forever out into the far reaches of space.

You can't forget about keith richard's liver. :p

[aljuweind]

comment was removed from this post

[sandrock74]

You can't forget about keith richard's liver. :p

LOL!LOL!
too true...

[mista_mo]

cool.

I can totally see some hippie enviromentalist getting a boner over this and protesting in washington to call for a global genocide of all humans to make things like that.

[Danny]

thats kind of a comforting thought in the grand scheme of things, that all the concrete omnstrosities we build in cities will be replaced by feilds and forests again, forests ebfore, forests after.

or in londons case, swamp first, cesspool now, swamp again:lol:

i googled the article folks, so hve a ganders and cop yer eyes ect.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&articleID=2691D716-E7F2-99DF-38F54EF6075AAB4D&pageNumber=1&catID=2

[mista_mo]

I'd rather us still be alive, but thats just me.

[Danny]

...why?, were horrible creatures. really.

[acealive1]

kiss, cockroaches, and cher's face will still be there :lol:

[darth los]

...why?, were horrible creatures. really.

That's one of the truest things you ever wrote. Our horribleness will be the end of our species too. Very poetic.

[Danny]

true i should screw the wussy attempt at a goatee and go for a full on van dyke with matching bere':cool:

[mista_mo]

and? what do i care? humanity is supposed to prosper on earth, and we are. There is also no such thing as balance in nature, as it is always in a flux, so people who always go on about how nature would reset itself are full of crap in most cases.

yes, we have done lots of harm to this planet, but hoenstly, any other intelligent creature would do the same in order to facilitate it's survival. We aren't horrible, we are making sure we survive and prosper as long as we can. I could care less if we kill off an obscure species of fish, or a species of tree, if it means more urban/residential space for my kids and grand kids in the future.

[Danny]

.....wow.

-anyway.

heres an on topic piece by lovecraft i read when i was 12 and this one was so concise adn to the point its stuck with me for years, and i only read it ocne (it took me 30 mins to look this up for youse guys without knowign the title), but aside form colour out of space this may be my favourite of lovecrafts works.



Memory
Written 1919

Published May 1923 in The National Amateur, Vol. 45, No. p. 5, 9.

In the valley of Nis the accursed waning moon shines thinly, tearing a path for its light with feeble horns through the lethal foliage of a great upas-tree. And within the depths of the valley, where the light reaches not, move forms not meant to be beheld. Rank is the herbage on each slope, where evil vines and creeping plants crawl amidst the stones of ruined palaces, twining tightly about broken columns and strange monoliths, and heaving up marble pavements laid by forgotten hands. And in trees that grow gigantic in crumbling courtyards leap little apes, while in and out of deep treasure-vaults writhe poison serpents and scaly things without a name. Vast are the stones which sleep beneath coverlets of dank moss, and mighty were the walls from which they fell. For all time did their builders erect them, and in sooth they yet serve nobly, for beneath them the grey toad makes his habitation.

At the very bottom of the valley lies the river Than, whose waters are slimy and filled with weeds. From hidden springs it rises, and to subterranean grottoes it flows, so that the Daemon of the Valley knows not why its waters are red, nor whither they are bound.

The Genie that haunts the moonbeams spake to the Daemon of the Valley, saying, “I am old, and forget much. Tell me the deeds and aspect and name of them who built these things of Stone.” And the Daemon replied, “I am Memory, and am wise in lore of the past, but I too am old. These beings were like the waters of the river Than, not to be understood. Their deeds I recall not, for they were but of the moment. Their aspect I recall dimly, it was like to that of the little apes in the trees. Their name I recall clearly, for it rhymed with that of the river. These beings of yesterday were called Man.”

So the Genie flew back to the thin horned moon, and the Daemon looked intently at a little ape in a tree that grew in a crumbling courtyard.

[mista_mo]

what..it is true...

people say that animals don't have war

thats just because they aren't smart enough to hate one anouther. I believe that the behavior we see in humanity is because of our intelligence and awareness; not because we are naturally ass's.


btw,
the above post i made was on-topic.

[darth los]

Memory
Written 1919

Published May 1923 in The National Amateur, Vol. 45, No. p. 5, 9.

In the valley of Nis the accursed waning moon shines thinly, tearing a path for its light with feeble horns through the lethal foliage of a great upas-tree. And within the depths of the valley, where the light reaches not, move forms not meant to be beheld. Rank is the herbage on each slope, where evil vines and creeping plants crawl amidst the stones of ruined palaces, twining tightly about broken columns and strange monoliths, and heaving up marble pavements laid by forgotten hands. And in trees that grow gigantic in crumbling courtyards leap little apes, while in and out of deep treasure-vaults writhe poison serpents and scaly things without a name. Vast are the stones which sleep beneath coverlets of dank moss, and mighty were the walls from which they fell. For all time did their builders erect them, and in sooth they yet serve nobly, for beneath them the grey toad makes his habitation.

At the very bottom of the valley lies the river Than, whose waters are slimy and filled with weeds. From hidden springs it rises, and to subterranean grottoes it flows, so that the Daemon of the Valley knows not why its waters are red, nor whither they are bound.

The Genie that haunts the moonbeams spake to the Daemon of the Valley, saying, “I am old, and forget much. Tell me the deeds and aspect and name of them who built these things of Stone.” And the Daemon replied, “I am Memory, and am wise in lore of the past, but I too am old. These beings were like the waters of the river Than, not to be understood. Their deeds I recall not, for they were but of the moment. Their aspect I recall dimly, it was like to that of the little apes in the trees. Their name I recall clearly, for it rhymed with that of the river. These beings of yesterday were called Man.”

So the Genie flew back to the thin horned moon, and the Daemon looked intently at a little ape in a tree that grew in a crumbling courtyard.[/I]

That sounds like an episode of the twighlight zone or the original planet of the apes. Very chiling.

[Danny]

uh-huh, i only read it for the second time today but its stuck with me for over 7 years, and i reckon itll stay in my ehad for a lot longer too.

[MikePizzoff]

I could care less if we kill off an obscure species of fish, or a species of tree, if it means more urban/residential space for my kids and grand kids in the future.

..............do you not realize that stuff like that happening actually contributes to the possibility that there may not be an planet for your grandkids to enjoy?

[Danny]

..............do you not realize that stuff like that happening actually contributes to the possibility that there may not be an planet for your grandkids to enjoy?

i gotta concur ,saying its okay to lose a species so your family gets houseing is about as monstrous as you can get, everything has a place, im arachnophobic, but i dont kill spiders, cus they get rid of flies.
you lose one speices, and you could see a rise in disease or anything, if your ignorant of how the natural world works your screwed.

but hey, at least your kids'l have that bitchin' condo.:lol:

[mista_mo]

yes i do, unfortunatly....


however, species have been going extinct for billions of years (all natural i may add) and yet, it's all still here isn't it?

I am not some dumb retard who thinks we should cut down and kill everything, however, the loss of something like a species of minnow, or a tree may impact the enviroment and chain for a time, but hey, adaption kicks in.

sorry, but i am more or less in belief that the loss of something so insignificant (no matter it's place in the ecosystem, nature always finds a way) will not curse my future offspring with a hard life in the future. sorry, but no.

Afterall, we've killed hundreds of species and we're doing a-okay.

hellsing

I am not ignorant of the natural world, we are roughly the same age, and have more or less doen the same courses in high school (i dunno if you've taken biology in college, it sounds weird, taking what was it..filmmaking i believe, but my friend doing advertising took a science as part of the program... )
and are more or less on equal footign regarding this subject. History shows that nature adapts to it. i'm sorry, but i just can't believe the destruction of a species like that would lead to the collapse of an entire eco-system as many say.

and i'd much rather my family live comfortably then in an overcrowded subdivision in some **** hole town. but again, maybe that is just me.

[MissJacksonCA]

Eh I say we're done for... its only a matter of when not if

[MikePizzoff]

however, species have been going extinct for billions of years (all natural i may add) and yet, it's all still here isn't it?


Key word: naturally. If a type of tree or a whole portion of rain forest is lost because of humans cutting them down to use the wood for more shopping malls and ritzy condos then it's not natural at all and it's going to fark something up.

Same goes with species of animal. You say it's okay if minow's become extinct? Probably not. The food chain goes on for a looong time (with humans at the top, in this day and age). Some bigger fish that lives off eating minow's would then go extinct, then the next biggest, then eventually it would get to us. You may not think it would because it's in the ocean, but it would.

[AcesandEights]

Eh I say we're done for... its only a matter of when not if

Like anyone expected a dose of sunshine from you, Miss Jackson :D

Bwahahahaha!

This thread is now at Defcon 2; doomsday's never far off when people start dropping HPL quotes. Nice find, btw Hellsing. The quote was unfamiliar to me.

Of course humanity will ultimately pass away into history. I'd feel a lot better if mankind was able to get itself out into the stars at some point (i.e. colonization) before our time is up, maybe lengthen our ride a bit, but I doubt that'll happen.

This article is also a rip off or a re-write of an article done last year, I believe. I'll try and find that article online for comparrison.

EDIT:

Found the article! Two different authors, it would seem, but pretty similar.



Imagine Earth without People (http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg19225731.100&print=true)
12 October 2006 Bob Holmes (from The New Scientist)

[Dawg]

Well, my brother had always said that they say that people destroy the enviroment and nature, but we are from nature, we are animals.

That is how we adapt and survive.

I don't think they should cut down rainforests to make a parking lot or shopping mall, but what they should do is go into urban areas that have crack houses and decaying apartments and tear them down and rebuild there. You would have to move the people or allow them to live in the better housing unit.

The problem is there are getting to be way too many people in this world because older people are living longer and everyone else is having too many kids. Why do you think that China regulates that sort of thing?

:dead: Dawg

[MissJacksonCA]

Well, my brother had always said that they say that people destroy the enviroment and nature, but we are from nature, we are animals.

That is how we adapt and survive.

I don't think they should cut down rainforests to make a parking lot or shopping mall, but what they should do is go into urban areas that have crack houses and decaying apartments and tear them down and rebuild there. You would have to move the people or allow them to live in the better housing unit.

The problem is there are getting to be way too many people in this world because older people are living longer and everyone else is having too many kids. Why do you think that China regulates that sort of thing?

:dead: Dawg

I used to be part of a volunteer group that would refurbish the bad parts of town to improve the overall aesthetic of the community... it was sponsored by local businesses and run entirely by volunteers and for no profit what-so-ever besides of course a better looking area. But what happened? The people trashed their homes. There's some areas that you can't improve.

[darth los]

The thing is that the selfishness of man is clearly illustrated daily. It's not like 60 years ago when we didn't know the full impact our actions have on the planet. We know that we're destroying the earth and we just don't care.

[EvilNed]

The planet is also destroying itself. Too many hippies today contribute everything to the human race, despite the fact that volcano eruptions and ice ages were around long before our time.

The human race will never die out, unless the planet or galaxy gets blown up. Even in the case of a nuclear holocaust (which I find extremely unlikely, given the fact of M.A.D.), people will survive and build anew. Why? Because humans have the ability to adapt unlike any other species.

[MissJacksonCA]

That'll just be your little secret that we're going to adapt to record high heat temperatures and record low winter temperatures. We're not adapting to global warming and we're not adapting to pollution. We're creating a world thats destroying us and everything around us that we depend on for survival. We were a good science project at the beginning... making progress... becoming smarter... but now we're progressively destroying the world around us to make a buck.

[EvilNed]

Record high heats and record low colds are not going to be too much of an obstacle for the human kind to survive.

[darth los]

Record high heats and record low colds are not going to be too much of an obstacle for the human kind to survive.

History actually supports that. We had an ice age just 11,000 years ago. Humans survived it without any of the technology we have today. I think we better worry more about nukes and biological weapons being our downfall.

[Danny]

yeah i read somewere taht during one of these cataclysims our species dwinlded down to mere thousands and now we number in billions, so yeah were horrible little bastards, but were aslo damn hard to get rid of, like roaches or cher.

[darth los]

yeah i read somewere taht during one of these cataclysims our species dwinlded down to mere thousands and now we number in billions, so yeah were horrible little bastards, but were aslo damn hard to get rid of, like roaches or cher.

One wonders when nature will strike back in order to thin out the herd again. It happens to most other species, why not us?

[sandrock74]

One wonders when nature will strike back in order to thin out the herd again. It happens to most other species, why not us?

Because unlike other species, we can reason, communicate, create and construct. It's as simple as that.

[darth los]

Because unlike other species, we can reason, communicate, create and construct. It's as simple as that.

And it is those exact tools that we use to destroy ourselves. We're not going to be around much longer and we will only have ourselves to blame.

[Danny]

^uh-huh. as destructive as we are as an animal, as a society we can create vaccines for disease, utilise sattelites to monitor the condition of the weather systesm and any threats from meteors, even things as simple as using sticks and a shoelace to make fire.
were destructive as hell but mentality were the msot adaptable species on earth, which is kind of a paradox since take that away and when it comes to evolutionairy adaptability we pretty much suck, which is why i dont buy the whole "god made us as we are now" thing, without our knowledge ,without clothes, technology, even speech, were one of the worst animals ever, no claws, cant run too fast to catch prey, not to adept at climbing or swimming as a species, so why would you make an animal thats so crap?:lol:

-oh and were the only species of animal that whines and bitches.

[darth los]

I'm just a believer that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. We'd be fools to think that all our technological advances don't carry a steep pricetag.People who say that humans have always survived throughout hiostory aren't considering that we didn't have all this technology then. How long do you think we'll be able to survive in this nuclear age we're in? 50, 100 years? It's only a matter of time before one of these nuts gets in power in a country with a nuclear arsenal. Pakistan is the only muslim nuclear power in the world . The guy in there is pro american right now but that country is only an assasins bullet away from islamic extremists taking power there and what then?

[Danny]

you know if the end of the world happened i honestly think id miss the internet so much more than tv, movies and music combined.

[darth los]

you know if the end of the world happened i honestly think id miss the internet so much more than tv, movies and music combined.

As would i. Look at where we spend most of our free time. You can have basically anything you want at your fingertips at any given time. Plus it gives us the chance to communicate with people we never would have met otherwise.

[AcesandEights]

-oh and were the only species of animal that whines and bitches.

Lots of animals whine, mewl and show forms of negative mood that could easily be construed as emotional discomfort (primates and animals that run in packs especially). Also, the young of animals species do this, as well.

And I have to tell you guys, humanity will not last forever, regardless of what you might like to think. It may last 100 hundred years, a hundred thousand years or even much longer, but all things must come to an end. Saying otherwise flies in the face of modern science and everything the general scientific community thinks about the universe and life itself. On the upside we could spread our genetic seed pretty far and wide and end up with evolutionary descendants on this or other planets (doubtful).

[Danny]

yep i dont think, hell im pretty damn sure we wont last till the eyar 100 trillion like in a dr.who episode, though call me optimistic but i think a cataclysm or plague would wipe us out before we did ti to each other, cus theres a lot of bad people in the world ,but theres still enough people like us to give humanity the hope it needs to get up every morning.:)

...god i sound like a hippie....wait, hair tied back, goatee.....HOLY ****!:eek:

[darth los]

Most scientists think that's where the future of mankind lies, outerspace. it's only a matter of time before we overpopulate and deplete the planet of it's natural resources. The only problem is how the hell do we get to a planet capable of sustaining human life?

[Danny]

As would i. Look at where we spend most of our free time. You can have basically anything you want at your fingertips at any given time. Plus it gives us the chance to communicate with people we never would have met otherwise.

ya know i think the internets a great thing on the whole for everyone, like how many shut in's with series probems like a phobia of people ten years ago would waste away in there house never interacting, now with forums, blogs, mmo's ect, as nerdy as they all are (and dont say they aint you know they are:shifty: ) it allows for a worldwide mutlicultural comunity, that to quote mz rocks so much cock:cool:

[darth los]

ya know i think the internets a great thing on the whole for everyone, like how many shut in's with series probems like a phobia of people ten years ago would waste away in there house never interacting, now with forums, blogs, mmo's ect, as nerdy as they all are (and dont say they aint you know they are:shifty: ) it allows for a worldwide mutlicultural comunity, that to quote mz rocks so much cock:cool:

Two cock quotes in one day!?! :lol: That has to be a first.

[MissJacksonCA]

If we could all survive record high heats that are only increasing then people wouldn't drop dead during heat waves. Further while humans may be able to adapt their food supply relies on weather among other things and will undoubtedly suffer as the weather further changes due to global warming. Its not just any one thing... its a combination of things that are going to suffer because we're going down one road we've paved for ourselves without looking far enough into the future to see the possible outcomes of our actions. We think we're moving forward but we can't see that we're headed off a cliff.

[Rottedfreak]

I was going to give a joke about apes taking over but I learned a old classmate is in jail due to driving into a old man and returning to the scene with a bag of chips and remaining silent until caught. It's so easy to overlook the noble and downright good things people can do when theres things like that happen.

[darth los]

If we could all survive record high heats that are only increasing then people wouldn't drop dead during heat waves. Further while humans may be able to adapt their food supply relies on weather among other things and will undoubtedly suffer as the weather further changes due to global warming. Its not just any one thing... its a combination of things that are going to suffer because we're going down one road we've paved for ourselves without looking far enough into the future to see the possible outcomes of our actions. We think we're moving forward but we can't see that we're headed off a cliff.

It's nature rooting out the weak. It's true that most people can't handle temperature extremes and other hardships that you mentioned. But there are extraordinary human specimens that can brave many things which the average human couldn't. These are the types of people that have made it possible for humans to survive eras of severe climate change. The human species might dwindle into the thousands but we'll most likely bounce back.

[Yojimbo]

cool.

I can totally see some hippie enviromentalist getting a boner over this and protesting in washington to call for a global genocide of all humans to make things like that.

PETA freaks and hippy-dippy types are already doing just that! They all got excited after seeing Gore's movie.

[darth los]

PETA freaks and hippy-dippy types are already doing just that! They all got excited after seeing Gore's movie.


There are worthwhile cause that when extremists of either the right or left wing start spewing their whacko talk lose credibility. How can you take someone seriously who raises hell when someone steps on a butterfly?

[coma]

I like butterflies, dammit

When I was a kid there were thousands of Monarchs in the Summer. Now there are NONE.
Sad.

[darth los]

I like butterflies, dammit

When I was a kid there were thousands of Monarchs in the Summer. Now there are NONE.
Sad.

We're making the bees disappear to. people are theorizing that man is causing it. In any case it would be a disaster. Bees pollinate countless plants and without them there to do that it would be disastrous for all life on this planet.

[Yojimbo]

yeah i read somewere taht during one of these cataclysims our species dwinlded down to mere thousands and now we number in billions, so yeah were horrible little bastards, but were aslo damn hard to get rid of, like roaches or cher.

Don't offend the roaches. What did they ever do to you?:lol:


There are worthwhile cause that when extremists of either the right or left wing start spewing their whacko talk lose credibility. How can you take someone seriously who raises hell when someone steps on a butterfly?

Very true. It is a shame that the wackos got involved in environmental causes, much like they got involved in the anti-war movement. There are many in the middle that would join their causes if it were not for the freaky factions making the idea of joining unpalatable to them. An anti-war demonstration, for example, does not need a faction of idiots wearing tie dyed shirts and banging drums while carrying signs calling for the legalization of drugs. Nor does the cause for securing our nation's borders against terrorists and illegal immigration need a bunch of armed right wing rednecks with walkie talkies and picket signs.

If you haven't seen this website, take a look.

http://zombietime.com/


As would i. Look at where we spend most of our free time. You can have basically anything you want at your fingertips at any given time. Plus it gives us the chance to communicate with people we never would have met otherwise.

Well, at least we are involved in a healthy exchange of dialogue and ideas rather than looking at porn, at least right now.

[QUOTE=MissJacksonCA;102753]If we could all survive record high heats that are only increasing then people wouldn't drop dead during heat waves. [QUOTE]

Technology to the rescue. Heat related deaths used to be off the scales before the advent and widespread distribution of air conditioning units. This would imply to me that there have always been heatwaves -- further, that these heatwaves killed more in the past than now. In as far as record high heatwaves are concerned, I often wonder if that is scientifically accurate. Our records only go back a short while. This is not to say that I don't agree that the avarice of humans is causing the rainforests to be depleted and natural resources to be used at an unsustainable rate,but just that I question the largely unsubstantiated statements of alarmists such as Gore and Michael Moore and the like, who in my opinion are really just self promotionalists who have found a convenient platform from which to self-aggrandize.

[coma]

Very true. It is a shame that the wackos got involved in environmental causes, much like they got involved in the anti-war movement. There are many in the middle that would join their causes if it were not for the freaky factions making the idea of joining unpalatable to them. An anti-war demonstration, for example, does not need a faction of idiots wearing tie dyed shirts and banging drums while carrying signs calling for the legalization of drugs. Nor does the cause for securing our nation's borders against terrorists and illegal immigration need a bunch of armed right wing rednecks with walkie talkies and picket signs.
I went to the RNC demontrations last election time and there were all these dickhead with "US out of Afghanistan" signs and a table. They were very lonely. No one went up to them and they were showered with dirty looks all day. They forgot that WE just got bombed by them. Douchbags they was, I tells ya. Bad timing, y'know. I would say 90 percent or more of New Yorkers wanted every Taliban schmuck burnt to sub toast.

The drum banging barefooters are embarrassing. they always focus on them in the news footage. There could be 10,000 construction workers but they show and talk to the rainbow family knotheads.

[darth los]

I went to the RNC demontrations last election time and there were all these dickhead with "US out of Afghanistan" signs and a table. They were very lonely. No one went up to them and they were showered with dirty looks all day. They forgot that WE just got bombed by them. Douchbags they was, I tells ya. Bad timing, y'know. I would say 90 percent or more of New Yorkers wanted every Taliban schmuck burnt to sub toast.

Some people are just pacifists and can't justify war under any circumstance. if they would have had signs that read "u.s. out of iraq" i bet people would have sympathized with them. It's a shame that this administration took their eye off the ball when it comes to that front of the war. The war in afghanistan is just because it had to do with getting the people who attacked us on 9-11. They can make no such claim about iraq, which was an agressive war and borders on a war crime. When people say that all war is wrong like the people you mentioned they are dismissed because these two fronts are obviously not the same thing and they come off as whacko.

[Yojimbo]

I have seen bumper stickers that say "War is never the solution"

I'm not a violent guy, and I certainly don't like the concept of war, but I always want to ask folks who have this bumper sticker what they would have thought the solution should have been in the case of Hitler in WWII. Had the idea of "war" been dismissed by the U.S.A. at that time, quite frankly, we would probably be subjects of a Nazi world order by now.

This is not to say that I agree with Iraq, only that the extremists sometimes speak without thinking, and use rhetoric and propogandaas a shortcut to actual dialogue.

[darth los]

I'm not a violent guy, and I certainly don't like the concept of war, but I always want to ask folks who have this bumper sticker what they would have thought the solution should have been in the case of Hitler in WWII. Had the idea of "war" been dismissed by the U.S.A. at that time, quite frankly, we would probably be subjects of a Nazi world order by now.


That's exactly what was britain's problem leading up to ww2. Chamberlain's insistance on pacifying hitler And "gauranteeing peace in our time" when anyone could plainly see that he wanted to dominate the continent if not the world.

[Yojimbo]

That's exactly what was britain's problem leading up to ww2. Chamberlain's insistance on pacifying hitler And "gauranteeing peace in our time" when anyone could plainly see that he wanted to dominate the continent if not the world.

I fully concur.

So in this regard, though I have no love for the war in Iraq (and, quite frankly, believe that it was a mess we should not have stepped into) I fully supported the idea of going to Afghanistan for the purpose of showing terrorists the full fury of what Americans are capable of. What does scare me at this point is the fear and anger that came about after the twin towers came down has paved the way for a major police state -type of atmosphere here in the US along with the potential for a strong mussolini type dictator to come into power under the guise of keeping our nation strong. From there it will be just a little hop to what was portrayed in the book (and film) A Handmaids Tale. COme to think of it, we are nearly there right now.

I think I am straying far off topic so I will end before I stir things up any further.

[darth los]

I fully concur.

So in this regard, though I have no love for the war in Iraq (and, quite frankly, believe that it was a mess we should not have stepped into) I fully supported the idea of going to Afghanistan for and showing terrorists the full fury of what Americans are capable of. What does scare me at this point is the fear and anger that came about after the twin towers came down has paved the way for a major police state -type of atmosphere here in the US along with the potential for a strong mussolini type dictator to come into power under the guise of keeping out nation strong. From there it will be just a little hop to what was portrayed in the book (and film) A Handmaids Tale. COme to think of it, we are nearly there right now.

I think I am straying far off topic so I will end before I stir things up any further.

Another problems is americas insistence on fighting politically correct wars. We did that to ourselves because we portray ourselves as the "good guys" and have a standard to live up to. War is ugly, alot of people are going to die, yes even women and children. You can't half ass a war. Either fully committ or don't do it at all. We could end the iraq conflict tommorrow. Even without nukes we could turn the whole country into a parking lot instead of doing it piecmeal like we are now. Just get the word out. Whoever wants to leave the country ket them. Let's see how brave these jihadists are without women and children to hide behind.

[Yojimbo]

Another problems is americas insistence on fighting politically correct wars. We did that to ourselves because we portray ourselves as the "good guys" and have a standard to live up to. War is ugly, alot of people are going to die, yes even women and children. You can't half ass a war. Either fully committ or don't do it at all. We could end the iraq conflict tommorrow. Even without nukes we could turn the whole country into a parking lot instead of doing it piecmeal like we are now. Just get the word out. Whoever wants to leave the country ket them. Let's see how brave these jihadists are without women and children to hide behind.

Agreed. Like the guy said in Phantasm "Either shoot to kill, or don't shoot at all"

[darth los]

Agreed. Like the guy said in Phantasm "Either shoot to kill, or don't shoot at all"

I was always a fan of the tall man and his balls. :D :p