Should Germany pay for the psychiatric care of Holocaust survivors children?

[MissJacksonCA]

While the surivors of the Holocaust endured a great deal I can't help but feel that this lawsuit is absolutely and entirely riddick.

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/holocaust-families-sue-germany/20070717093009990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001

They shouldn't be able to hold government accountable for something that happened before their time to someone else regardless of how it affected them. It could trickle down to their children and so on and so forth and where will it end?

[Tricky]

A bit like britain with the slave trade & us having to pay compensation for it.The difference is the holocaust happened within living memory of a fair few people & there are still a lot of elderly germans alive who took part,& i dare say a lot who got away with it after melting away into the crowds of refugees in 1945.The thing is the holocaust wasnt just a slave trade (which is bad enough) it was mass murder on an industrial scale,& germany should never be allowed to forget it

[MinionZombie]

psychiatric care of Holocaust survivors children

This is written out correctly, right?

What psychiatric problems have the children of holocaust survivors got that could even compare to their parent's troubles...and nor have these offspring been through the holocaust itself...but aye Tricky, there's something else at play with the holocaust, it was the systematic destruction of specific ethnic groups/minorities in an industrial manner...kind of slavery PLUS genocide...enslaved to push the genocide further forward.

As for the slave trade, I don't see why anyone living today or in power should appologise, we have no control over the past before we were born, I - along with everyone living today - had piss all to do with the slave trade, and there hasn't been anyone living who was involved in it for a very long time.

We all agree that it was wrong - doi, it's obvious - if you could bring those who caused slavery back to life and make them appologise, off ya trot, but I ain't feeling a sliver of guilt over it, it's not my doing - and quite frankly, how is anyone living today (who are calling for an appology) been enslaved under the 'classic' Amistad style slave trade ... and then there's the ironies of some black people enslaving their fellow "race" (I use " " those because we're all the human race, so I find colour race definition a little bit silly).

But of course, slavery isn't over, it's changed...we have human trafficking now, especially for sexual purposes...it's beyond colour now, it's to do simply with intended purpose (sick purpose).

Back to the holocaust - it must never be forgotten, but there will come a time - which can be very soon - when nobody living in Germany had anything to do with the holocaust itself, so that aspect can be laid to rest. As for national pride being affected and the feeling of national guilt over the horrible goings on, that will last a lot longer, but I surely don't expect anyone who wasn't involved in the holocaust to feel any responsibility or guilt for it...I guess when I say "national guilt" I really mean "national SHAME"...that being the distinction.

It's all a quagmire ... but if that is indeed the case, why should Germany pay for the psychiatric help for the children of holocaust survivors...surely it'd be the holocaust survivors themselves - in the latter case I'd be in support, like a "for the rest of their lives" pledge to make up for about 1% of the mental torture of being subjected to death camp life.

[Danny]

WHAT?

thats the dumbet thing ive heard today.
dont know about you but when i met the german exchane students when we did the exchange thing at our high school they werent adorned in swasticas and skulls yelling zeig heil, the german people today arent the jew hating nazi party of the first half of the last century and asking them to deal with screwed up kids who werent put through those kind of horrors, who merely have the same troubles you or me do is morally just pretty damn creepy.

"uh, so your grandfather kept my granfather in a concentration camp"

"really, thats horrifying"

"yeah...so i need you to give me mon.ey now."


the people who survived those horror shows should get pyschiatric help the kids however shouldnt, if they have problems they should just go to a psychiatrist if they need to, a kid getting paid for the horrors his or her parent whent through is just wrong in a creepy "i decided not to give you a kidney" kind of way, they werent there, neither were most germans so they shouldnt have this brought up, you should remember the horror to ensure it never happens again not to remember what group of our species within a invisible political border did, thats retarded. like what mz said over the slve trade that was disgusting beyond belief but i had nothing to do with it, and no black guys alive today were part of it, i treat all my black freinds how i should, exactly like evryone else, adn thats all i would expect in return, no race or colour is superior to another period.

[darth los]

i agree with what most of the others said. If the parents never got any reparations, to me that just weakens the case for the children, It's sad that people nowdays will look to get money any way they can.

[MissJacksonCA]

Just a tip guys... they're not looking to make money... they want paid psychiatric therapy for three years... its not like they're out and out money grubbing whores...

While their childhoods and adulthoods may be fuct up its crazy for them to think they should be able to get anything from the country to help pay for counseling... there's tons of people who's childhoods were affected (and lives in general) by their parents ability to parent. Who's to say how you measure your damage (for lack of a better word) in order to say how much money you should get towards psychiatric treatment for the crap you went through as a kid?

What's next though if they win?

[darth los]

Just a tip guys... they're not looking to make money... they want paid psychiatric therapy for three years... its not like they're out and out money grubbing whores...

Taking into account you're previous stances on matters similar to this one that remark took me by suprise. Even if it's not cash in hand they're trying to get something for free. How do we know that it's the holocaust's fault that they're f**ked up? Alot of people have mental/behavioral problems who's parents didn't suffer through that trauma. I don't think they can demonstrate a correlation between the two.

[rightwing401]

What?

The grandparents went through hell, so the grandkids should get free benefits. That's absurd.
What's next? The grandchildren of the survivors of Dresden get free fire insurance because two generations back their city was firebombed to hell. Free benefits from descendents of the Chinese that suffered horribly at the hands of the Japanese. Japanese of descendents of Hiroshema survivors getting free x-rays for the suffering from the atomic bomb?
Sorry, but the Jews do not have a monopoly on sufferage. And no one deserves something for free just because of something that happened to someone in their family in the past.
Hell, if this is collectively accepted, maybe I should demand some compensation from the English because of Scottish sufferage.

[Danny]

why not take it further?, us brits could sue rome for occupation centuries ago WERES MY FREE FLU-SHOT!:lol:

[coma]

Have any of you ever KNOWN a holocaust survivor? I have known several. Is it really inconceivable that the unfathomable horror and pain got passed on to their children?
And plenty of people profited form the war even though the country got flattened, Like The Braun company. Y'know the cofeemaker company. They made the little valve that allowed Zyklon B to be put snugly into the showers omngst many, many other aspects of the Wermachy and the Final Solution. The Govt may have been smashed but all the bloodsuckers thrived and continue to thrive.

Germany is not made up of only children. Many participants and benfitors are still alive. The world isnt only made of of 20 year olds, by the way.
So, some people get a couple of years of therapy. Thats not much considering the rest if their families, other than the survivors, were tortured to death by the millions.

Every vestige of the Final Solution needs to be rectified. But I am not saying they will or should get a benifit. But is is not that ridiculous.

[darth los]

Every body has been through some kind of trauma in their lives or has some kind of sob story. It is a very slppery slope when it comes to things like this. You can't compensate people for things that didn't happen to them directly. If a mom got molested as a kid and screwed her child up as a result, is that child entitled to something? You'd really have a tough time knowing where to draw the line.

[MinionZombie]

But I think the point people are making here is that if free psychiatric help is going to go to anyone, surely it should go to the actual holocause survivors...not the children of holocaust survivors...that makes no sense whatsoever. The children of holocaust survivors are just like any other person, an actual holocaust survivor is not.

I'd support psychiatric help for holocaust survivors, but not their kids, because how is their kid's mental anguish going to even compare one iota to that of their parents who were sent to death camps for ordered disposal?! :eek:

[Danny]

exatcly ,now matter how bad the kids life is they cant really play the "you have no idea what ive been through" card can they?

[MissJacksonCA]

Taking into account you're previous stances on matters similar to this one that remark took me by suprise. Even if it's not cash in hand they're trying to get something for free. How do we know that it's the holocaust's fault that they're f**ked up? Alot of people have mental/behavioral problems who's parents didn't suffer through that trauma. I don't think they can demonstrate a correlation between the two.

I was simply pointing out that they weren't asking for money in their hands because it seemed to be the general consensus by previous posters that they were looking to profit financially personally... and that's simply not the case. Its not as if they're asking for money to talk to a shrink about their marriage and kids or work.

I'm sure they can correlate their parents survival of the Holocaust to the problems that they suffer from personally but the thing is why should the country pay? Because their parents did a bad job as a after having survived the Holocaust?

However if their parents abused them and somehow the abuse was similar to treatment from concentration camp survivors then perhaps I can see pennies going their way. Were they locked without food and water in a closet with no plumbing or electric and tossed crumbs of bread every few days? Were they abused and degraded by their family? Perhaps and merely perhaps I could see them getting mental care.

And what about their children? I mean if the cycle of abuse is correct then they'll mess up their kids and then they'll be the ones who need treatment. It may never end.

I'll be searching for further news stories on this to find out exactly what was so brutal about their upbringing that they find it necessary to receive psychiatric care... perhaps that will shed some light on the validity of their claim...

I know but one Holocaust survivor... perhaps one of the nicest people I could ever hope to have as a neighbor. He's entirely normal both in public and behind closed doors. He and his wife managed to raise three wonderful children who are adults now and some of whom have children. In a way they were the family I always wanted because they are so obscenely normal and loving of each other. Some people survive something horrible and change for the better or remain who they were despite their previous experiences... not everyone can be so strong

[Khardis]

why not take it further?, us brits could sue rome for occupation centuries ago WERES MY FREE FLU-SHOT!:lol:

And I want reparations for when the redcoats marched on Charleston!!!

[darth los]

I know these examples you guys are giving are not serious but this is exactly the kind of slippery slope we'll be going down if cases like this are validated by the courts.

[acealive1]

i'll say this in a word. NO! because if that happens,im marching down to washington DC to collect on my ancestors being in slavery for 300 years.

[darth los]

i'll say this in a word. NO! because if that happens,im marching down to washington DC to collect on my ancestors being in slavery for 300 years.


That's right ace you go up there and demand that 40 acres and a mule that they never followed through on. Let me know how it works out for ya. :D

[mista_mo]

why....They didn't go through it....and they aren't going through it....

I can see that Iranian president (can't spell his name ahud-mapunjabi or some crap) getting all fuzzy over this. What a stupid Git

[darth los]

I can see that Iranian president (can't spell his name ahud-mapunjabi or some crap) getting all fuzzy over this. What a stupid Git


lol :lol:

His name is Mahmoud ahmadinejad. Uh -oh i just typed his name !! The nsa should be here any minute.

[mista_mo]

OH S*IT RUN DARTH RUN TOO DA HILLS!!!!!111!!
But be careful for da mutant hills with eyes.


Mahmoud ahmadinejad hmmm....

If you rearrange the letters in his name you get..

Hamhoud ahmadadijne which translates into:
he who loves sex with precooked ham.

[darth los]

OH S*IT RUN DARTH RUN TOO DA HILLS!!!!!111!!
But be careful for da mutant hills with eyes.


Mahmoud ahmadinejad hmmm....

If you rearrange the letters in his name you get..

Hamhoud ahmadadijne which translates into:
he who loves sex with precooked ham.

Would that qualify as beastiality? In any case it can't be kosher or halal.

[AcesandEights]

why....They didn't go through it....and they aren't going through it....


Bingo. Pretty straight forward.

Though, I think follow up studies on the childiren of holocaust victims, of which there have been a fair number, are pretty damn interesting.

[darth los]

Bingo. Pretty straight forward.

Though, I think follow up studies on the childiren of holocaust victims, of which there have been a fair number, are pretty damn interesting.

I personally think that there's a very good chance that because someone's parents are messed up in the head that it affects their children in some way. But who hasn't been through a trauma or has some type of sob story? If we were to compensate everyone like that 90% of the population would be entitled to something.

[Khardis]

Yes! And I demand money from black people because Moors once enslaved Southern Italy and Sicily! Then I demand free **** from England because they starved my great grandfathers family out of their homes in Ireland! Oh also I want reparations from Egypt for enslaving the jews, I am part jewish, let my people go!