Michael Vick - Scumbag or Innocent? [Archive]

darth los

26-Jul-2007, 05:30 PM

The thing is this is an issue where two distinct entities have seperate interests. The nfl totally has something to do with it. Every sports league reserves the right to fine, suspend and even terminate players they deem to have engaged in conduct detrimental to the league and boy does this ever fit the bill. My guess is that he won't play in the league this year. If aquitted he might find a team that will take him in down the road. Hey, that's business.

Then there's the legal side of it. I think he's guilty. Now, of course everyone has the presumption of innocence but the feds don't bring a case against someone unless it's airtight. That's why they take years to investigate, to get all their ducks in a row. When was the last time you heard of anyone geting aquitted on all federal charges levied against them? I can't remember either.

MissJacksonCA

26-Jul-2007, 08:34 PM

darth los

26-Jul-2007, 08:39 PM

While he's being investiaged he should be suspended from play... why give a person a job who may be using his salary for his dogfighting pasttimes... I mean a team shouldn't employ a wifebeater why should they employ a person who tortures dogs? It may have nothing to do with his ability to play football but why enable bad behavior by looking the other way?

If he's guilty I hope he gets locked up ...

If he's guilty it's just a matter of when.

He has already been ordered by the commissioner of the NFL not to report to training camp. I expect him to announce vick's regular season status before the season begins. That's the thing about the NFL, players contracts are not gauranteed. They can be cut at any time. All the experts that cover this stuff seem to agree that vick won't play this season.

MissJacksonCA

26-Jul-2007, 08:52 PM

Well I sure hope so

RustyHicks

26-Jul-2007, 09:06 PM

I think he should be put in a pit of
pit bulls and let them have a go at him.
why do people get a kick out of this **** man,
I dunno.
He should get some punishment for what he done
and no slap on the wrist, becareful next time crap either.
People who watch and bet rooster fights get a laugh,
they laugh until the roosters kill one another.
Sick sick and more sick

dmbfanintn

26-Jul-2007, 09:41 PM

Some co-workers and I were discussing this today...I think the least of Micheal Vicks worries right now is playing football again. Hes looking at prison time for this...as he should. I dont give a sh!t if he can throw a ball or not, it is absolutely repulsive that people still do this....And they do it with chickens as well.:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

darth los

26-Jul-2007, 10:18 PM

I think the reason why this strikes a chord with so many people is that so many of us have owned dogs at some point in our lives or atleast interacted with them. The crimes this man is accused of committing are unspeakable:

-He had "rape stands" to tie female dogs up who weren't willing to mate with males

-He dealt with dogs who either didn't want to fight or weren't good at it by electrocuting them and slamming them into the ground until they were dead.

-He bet hundreds of thousands of dollars on dog fights that would sometimes drag on for hours until one of the dogs was dead.

What type of person gets off on this kind of sh8t? It's sick and he doesn't deserve to be free let alone have a prominent role in one of the major sports leagues. Kids watch this stuff. What kind of signal does it send if he's still allowed to play? Which by the way is a priviledge not a right.

MissJacksonCA

26-Jul-2007, 10:58 PM

RustyHicks

26-Jul-2007, 11:21 PM

Power...It is sometime Power.
They got such low self esteem, they
gotta get their power and strength from
beating up on someone or some animal
that is weaker than them.
Not saying this is the case here, it might be a small
peice of it, but I think this guy is just one big sicko

darth los

26-Jul-2007, 11:36 PM

I just can't imagine what kind of person enjoys watching and tortuing animals. What do they do behind closed doors themselves? They're not normal. I understand tortuing people who've screwed with you and killed someone you care about more than torturing dogs who did nothing to you.

I've been listening to the debate on tv the last couple of days and some have opined that this is a cultural thing. Particularly in the south where things like this and cockfighting are commonplace and considered to be really no big deal. Maybe there's something to that. The former light heavywieght champ roy jones was notorious for cockfighting and no one really seemed to care about it outside of the usual P.e.t.a. crowd.

MissJacksonCA

26-Jul-2007, 11:40 PM

darth los

26-Jul-2007, 11:49 PM

Funny you should mention that Darth because apparently Vick had ties to local Charleston dogfighting... I had no idea that was going on here... they weren't covering the story... until he gets arrested for it... wtf? Like it isn't important until a celeb is involved?

I think that many times attention isn't drawn to an issue until someone famous is involved. Like parkinson's syndrome and michael j. fox. People remember how young and vibrant he used to be and to see him in his current state is difficult for some. His having it really made people aware. Unfortunately that's what it takes sometimes.

RustyHicks

26-Jul-2007, 11:53 PM

Here in Ontario, it's illegal to own a pit bull,
because of the fights, and some people train
the dogs, who are innocent, to attack and
bad thing happens, they attack a kid.
So the law here is, no pitbulls, and no
breeding them. Course, you know when it
comes to the law, sometimes it doesn't work.

darth los

27-Jul-2007, 12:00 AM

This is definitely something that's not new. Pits have been mauling people for years. Around here they used to feed them gunpowder to make them violently insane. Sick stuff and dangerous. If one of those things ever got a hold of someone it wouldn't be pretty.

MissJacksonCA

27-Jul-2007, 12:00 AM

I've always been a bit of a firm believer that its not the dogs that are bad its the owners that treat them a certain way and they become bad. Like its illegal in Orange County to own an Akita after a young boy was killed after his idiot parents let him pet a dog tied up outside of a coffeehouse. Everyone in the county named them lethal dogs when in fact they were used as babysitters in Japan. I owned one and a better dog did never exist. However pit bulls are different. Perhaps a case could be built that evil is genetic and could be carried through a bloodline. My friend owned 2 pitbulls that he adopted from a shelter and he was the nicest and most loving guy ever but the dogs occasionally bit him hard and freaked him out. He still has 'em but they're quite scary. Then my current boyfriend owns a doberman that is a direct descentdant from Hitlers own... I expected dobermans to be terrifying... this thing is huge i'm talking he outweighs me and he's just HUUUUUGE... when I first saw him I was terrified... then he plopped onto my lap on the couch and licked me senseless... so perhaps its just pit bulls that are evil... perhaps its the owners...

darth los

27-Jul-2007, 12:15 AM

There are definitely some animals that can't b tamed. Look at what happened to the tiger dude from vegas. They've been raising those things since they were cubs and one of them still almost killed him. Also, you have to treat animals with respect. You can't expect to mistreat them and not have them lash out in some way.

MissJacksonCA

27-Jul-2007, 12:21 AM

Bit of a difference between Sigfreid and Roys tiger mauling him a bit and a pit bull but it is quite similar to the akita biting and killing the child. Animals are still animals and they react to things differently. Sigfreid and Roy recognised that their tiger did nothing wrong. Unfortunately the Akita was put to sleep because they deemed it killed the child because heaven forfend the parents of the dog accept responsiblity for their child going up to a dog and doing who knows what that could have provoked it. And I'm sorry... kids do stuff to animals they shouldn't. They yank on tails and on ears and tease pets with food. If you raise your kids to think thats okay and they get attacked maybe the kid shoulda been put to sleep.

RustyHicks

27-Jul-2007, 12:24 AM

Sometimes it is the owner and sometimes
like darth said, you can't take the wild out
of an animal.
Have you ever tried to have a wolf as a pet.
Doesn't work, although I have heard of wolves
adopting humans as friends

darth los

27-Jul-2007, 12:24 AM

If you raise your kids to think thats okay and they get attacked maybe the kid shoulda been put to sleep.

Leave it up to you to come up with a reasonable solution.

MissJacksonCA

27-Jul-2007, 12:28 AM

I said MAYBE darth lol...

actually my boyfriends dad used to raise wolves and said they were the sweetest pets ever... of course a man who currently in his home allows no less than 6 cats, 6 dogs and a miniature horse he obviously has a real loving streak for animals...

RustyHicks

27-Jul-2007, 12:41 AM

You're right sometimes kids get a little rough,
or sometimes they tease, and the dog can only take
so much, but the owners should you know, try and
wack the kid on the little bum and teach him to
be a little more respectful

MissJacksonCA

27-Jul-2007, 04:52 AM

Parents just dont teach kids well which is funny because i've seen dog owners treat their dogs with more concern. For instance... I used to walk my mums dog daily around this island in Dana Point where every tom, dick, and harry walks their dogs... people would let their kids run up to my mums rat terrier and pet it but when they approach with their dog they like leash him up and hold him back... even tell me to pick up my dog... like god forbid the two dogs get anywhere near each other... perhaps they're thinking the dogs might attack each other but I mean who's to say my dog likes kids any more than he might like other dogs? Its simply silly to assume y'know? Granted the guy shouldn't take his dog to the coffee shop and tie him outside and not stand out there to guard the dog but who's going to think a person would let their toddler go up to a large 150+ pound dog? I mean really? Why not just feed your kids to the sharks?

In places like Carmel, California where dirty Harry is the mayor people take their dogs to sidewalk cafes and they all sit and eat... they take their pup to the outdoor shops and there's no real fusses about the animals being there... my attorneys office is a real inspiration... everyone who works there who has a pet is supposed to bring their pet to work where they're able to sit with their owners or they're kept in a 'pet sitting' office on the main level of the building... its all quite lovely and started by the main partners wife... its a wonderful system...

people dont respect their own animals so its no suprise children aren't taught to do something similar... its like I met this woman who found a Sottie dog and she took him in and gave him a home... he's quite old and the sweetest lil guy ever but she leaves him outside all night long and for most of the day... why even have a dog? Its not like he'll kill an intruder or even warn you... he's more likely to piss himself and run into the corner of the yard... I've also seen people with dogs they leave on a 8 foot chain outside tied up to a dog house day in and day out snow, rain, sleet, shine and their whole life revolves around that 8 foot chain and their dog house... wtf?

Khardis

27-Jul-2007, 10:25 AM

Jury nullification. Hey it worked for OJ and he only killed 2 people.

darth los

27-Jul-2007, 01:30 PM

Hey, if that fails there's always a presidential pardon. It seems that bush has no problem giving them out these days. :rolleyes:

acealive1

27-Jul-2007, 02:56 PM

raw deal and not the source of the problem. its like sending a person to jail for a gram of coke for life while tony montana is still loose

dmbfanintn

27-Jul-2007, 03:01 PM

raw deal and not the source of the problem. its like sending a person to jail for a gram of coke for life while tony montana is still loose

I understand that they have evidence to prove Vick was one of the ringleaders of the operation, not a innocent bystander.

MissJacksonCA

27-Jul-2007, 11:58 PM

Jury nullification. Hey it worked for OJ and he only killed 2 people.

that was beautiful man

darth los

28-Jul-2007, 12:19 AM

I understand that they have evidence to prove Vick was one of the ringleaders of the operation, not a innocent bystander.

Here's a link to the 18 page indictment.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0717072vick1.html

coma

28-Jul-2007, 01:16 AM

raw deal and not the source of the problem. its like sending a person to jail for a gram of coke for life while tony montana is still loose
Other people get busted for this but they are shiftless loser criminals not a Football "hero", idol to kids all over the US. I am not sure why but he is.
Every charge is about him being instrumental in the ring. His defense is that he was unaware and his relatives did it.
Its crap. He's a scumbag as is anyone else, involved in any capacity, in this "sport".

People only seem to be defending him because he's a good athlete. Any talent he may have is morally irrelevant. and it is a utterly ridiculous reason to defend anyone ion that basis alone.

If he is guilty, of course. It sure seems like he is

acealive1

28-Jul-2007, 03:02 AM

that was beautiful man

well if there werent so many dirty cops. cmon man. his wife had a drug habit and she didnt pay

Other people get busted for this but they are shiftless loser criminals not a Football "hero", idol to kids all over the US. I am not sure why but he is.
Every charge is about him being instrumental in the ring. His defense is that he was unaware and his relatives did it.
Its crap. He's a scumbag as is anyone else, involved in any capacity, in this "sport".

People only seem to be defending him because he's a good athlete. Any talent he may have is morally irrelevant. and it is a utterly ridiculous reason to defend anyone ion that basis alone.

If he is guilty, of course. It sure seems like he is

im in no way defending him but do u think they'd get off on arresting someone who put a million dollars into the dog fights who wasnt famous? its gotta be someone famous. i TOTALLY support him now because now theres idiots that decided to make it a racial thing. so vick has my support now.

Khardis

28-Jul-2007, 04:38 AM

Hey, if that fails there's always a presidential pardon. It seems that bush has no problem giving them out these days. :rolleyes:

Only to those who deserve them though, like Scooter Libby who wasnt actually guilty of anything. He could try selling them though like Clinton Inc.

I honestly don't think Vick did it, he may have let someone do it, or watched on occasion but i doubt he would have the time to run such a small fry dog fighting ring. I think the indictment is just to squeeze him into giving up whoever really set this thing up.

darth los

28-Jul-2007, 05:13 AM

Scooter libby was guilty of perjury and obsrtuction of justice. 12 of his peers even said so.

Khardis

28-Jul-2007, 05:25 AM

Scooter libby was guilty of perjury and obsrtuction of justice. 12 of his peers even said so.

He was guilty of not having a photographic memory. And the case was a sham to boot. He wasn't the leaker, Richard Armitage (a Democrat supporter) was. I don't remember isn't the same as saying a lie. If you think perjury and obstruction of justice merits a prison sentence, then we should agree that Bill Clinton needs to be put behind bars.

the 12 peers by the way were hand picked from DC residents. DC tends to be a very very blue town by the way. Next thing we know, you'll be telling me OJ was innocent because 12 of his peers didn't care that he nearly decapitated his ex wife.

coma

28-Jul-2007, 04:17 PM

well if there werent so many dirty cops. cmon man. his wife had a drug habit and she didnt pay

im in no way defending him but do u think they'd get off on arresting someone who put a million dollars into the dog fights who wasnt famous? its gotta be someone famous. i TOTALLY support him now because now theres idiots that decided to make it a racial thing. so vick has my support now.
Its not like he's the only person to get busted for this. I have heard of many stories about people getting popped for dogfights. Vick is news because he's famous. If he got busted for pissing in public we would've heard about it too. If some Fox ranter said racial stuff what difference does that make? Racists make everything racial.

When I heard "Micheal Vick dog fight blah blah" I heard it ion the radio and because I dont give a crap about football I had no idea he was black and I STILL thought it was scummy. Provided he is guilty of course.

If you support someone you believe to be guilty because of his race alone that makes zero sense and is counter productive. If you think he is being persecuted and is actually completely innocent that is different.

I guess part of what makes the story shocking is that he is extremely Wealthy and famous. So it is not a case of "This is my only opportunity to get money", it is based on animal cruelty and what is obviously (if the reports are true) simple vicious sadism. I understand why someone with no opportunity may be part of a criminal underworld (not excusing the behavior, just understand the motive) but this dick is living the dream. He would have no excuse.

And it really strains common sense to believe he would have zero knowledge or participation in something to this extent on his property.

If a teenager gets shot in the back by a cop with no weapon there may very well be a racial element, but I dont see how this fits that criteria.

acealive1

28-Jul-2007, 05:48 PM

Its not like he's the only person to get busted for this. I have heard of many stories about people getting popped for dogfights. Vick is news because he's famous. If he got busted for pissing in public we would've heard about it too. If some Fox ranter said racial stuff what difference does that make? Racists make everything racial.

When I heard "Micheal Vick dog fight blah blah" I heard it ion the radio and because I dont give a crap about football I had no idea he was black and I STILL thought it was scummy. Provided he is guilty of course.

If you support someone you believe to be guilty because of his race alone that makes zero sense and is counter productive. If you think he is being persecuted and is actually completely innocent that is different.

I guess part of what makes the story shocking is that he is extremely Wealthy and famous. So it is not a case of "This is my only opportunity to get money", it is based on animal cruelty and what is obviously (if the reports are true) simple vicious sadism. I understand why someone with no opportunity may be part of a criminal underworld (not excusing the behavior, just understand the motive) but this dick is living the dream. He would have no excuse.

And it really strains common sense to believe he would have zero knowledge or participation in something to this extent on his property.

If a teenager gets shot in the back by a cop with no weapon there may very well be a racial element, but I dont see how this fits that criteria.

not a fox ranter. some kind of animal cruelty or PETA person was outside the court and i quote yahoo when i say this "michael vick you're a (expletive) (racial slur)!!"

that was enough for me as it should never come to that. it shouldnt have to come to someone doing somethin u dont like or making u mad for you to drop every racial slur in the book on them. i wouldnt have had a problem if she woulda said "michael vick you son ah mah beeetch" or "mawfarker" or somethin,but she stepped over the line

coma

28-Jul-2007, 10:39 PM

not a fox ranter. some kind of animal cruelty or PETA person was outside the court and i quote yahoo when i say this "michael vick you're a (expletive) (racial slur)!!"

that was enough for me as it should never come to that. it shouldnt have to come to someone doing somethin u dont like or making u mad for you to drop every racial slur in the book on them. i wouldnt have had a problem if she woulda said "michael vick you son ah mah beeetch" or "mawfarker" or somethin,but she stepped over the line
Well, of it was a PETA person that kind of speaks for itself. Alot of them are unbalanced. But that is really just one person looking for an excuse.

RustyHicks

28-Jul-2007, 10:54 PM

The top issue is what happened to those
Dogs
but the PETA should have never said that.
Doesn't matter what colour the person was,
could be green with poka dots for all I care,
just what he did to those dogs is what matters.
Let's send him to the dogs.

axlish

28-Jul-2007, 11:52 PM

I hope he is innocent, I hate to see talent of his level wasted on something so useless as dog fighting. That is my stance. If he is guilty, an NFL suspention will be the least of his worries.

acealive1

29-Jul-2007, 12:58 AM

bottom line, animal activists suck because they're gung ho about things like this. if vixk wasnt famous,he wouldnt be in court

coma

29-Jul-2007, 02:01 AM

bottom line, animal activists suck because they're gung ho about things like this. if vixk wasnt famous,he wouldnt be in court
You ever see that animal cops show? They arrest people for the same thing all the time.
So I guess your saying because he's famous he cant be guilty and they are framing him because cops hate super star football players?:eek:

Y'know he wouldnt be the first or the 50th football player to get busted for something awful.

Bottom line. If he was not famous he wouldnt be in the news. But he is famous so he is. Its not that wierd

Khardis

29-Jul-2007, 02:07 AM

I wonder what would happen if animal activists and environmentalists both got their ultimate wishes. We would be reduced to living back in the 1700s but not allowed to hunt for furs or food...

mista_mo

29-Jul-2007, 02:39 AM

a disenchanting and frightening view of our future....

They truly are the skum of the earth....Well, at least the hardcore ones anyway.

dmbfanintn

30-Jul-2007, 12:54 PM

He was guilty of not having a photographic memory.

Kinda like Alberto Gonzales, huh?

major jay

30-Jul-2007, 10:55 PM

I think the feds took over the investigation because dog fighting is becoming more popular around the rest of the country. Busting Mike Vick sends a message to everyone that you can end up in jail for being involved in it. It's an efficient way with dealing with a bigger problem.

acealive1

31-Jul-2007, 02:17 AM

just as i said it would be, they named him as basically a financer. so he only supplied money.

coma

31-Jul-2007, 04:07 AM

just as i said it would be, they named him as basically a financer. so he only supplied money.
If you supply money to finance an illegal operation, and you know it to be illegal, you are just as guilty as anyone else. Thats the law.

acealive1

31-Jul-2007, 04:14 AM

If you supply money to finance an illegal operation, and you know it to be illegal, you are just as guilty as anyone else. Thats the law.

i dont remember every saying it wasnt illegal. i do remember saying that he was probably just a money man though.

flyboy

31-Jul-2007, 06:10 PM

If he is guilty, I think technically he should go to prison irrespective of what the NFL thinks.

here,here.

i once saw a dog fighting ring on panorama on bbc 1 and it was sick when one of the dogs loses, they just shoot it.its in a right 2 and 8 ears torn off,throat ripped out.barbaric.:mad:i love all animals i have more respect for animals than i do for certain people.hedghogs are my fav!! i leave meat out at night for them and in the morning, its gone!! bless! animals are the joy of my life.:)