NOTLD question

[fartpants]

can someone explain to me why the little girl in the cellar used a trowel to kill her mom, why use the tool when all the other zeds were happy with ripping their prey to pieces with their bare hands, its the one aspect of this film that i never got, why she didnt just try and eat her mom like a normal zed.??

[bassman]

There's stuff like that in all of Romero's films. I get the feeling that he hadn't set the zombie mythos in stone for "Night" but then later fine tuned it for the other films. Then again, the cemetery zombie also uses a rock to bust the window. Same with the zombie that busts the truck's headlight out. Maybe he had the basic weapons/tools thing already figured out.

It's like that in all the films. If you think about "Dawn", there is a scene with the news saying that the dead can use basic tools in the most simple way.

[Yojimbo]

There's stuff like that in all of Romero's films. I get the feeling that he hadn't set the zombie mythos in stone for "Night" but then later fine tuned it for the other films. Then again, the cemetery zombie also uses a rock to bust the window. Same with the zombie that busts the truck's headlight out. Maybe he had the basic weapons/tools thing already figured out.

It's like that in all the films. If you think about "Dawn", there is a scene with the news saying that the dead can use basic tools in the most simple way.

Agree with Bassman and can understand the concept of a primitive mind being able to use simple stabbing tools and rocks as bludgeons. (Saw a program recently where monkeys were found using rocks to pound open nuts) Of course these concepts can be taken too far as to border on silliness (LAND springs to mind)

I always suspected that Romero was in a way inspired by the Psycho shower sequence and the trowel gave him the opportunity to "borrow" the concept of showing the weapon held high over the victim before each blow.

[bassman]

Of course these concepts can be taken too far as to border on silliness (LAND springs to mind)


Where's the silliness? It's the same as the other films. Sharp objects, blunt instruments, and weapons. All stuff remembered from their past lives..

[Yojimbo]

Where's the silliness? It's the same as the other films. Sharp objects, blunt instruments, and weapons. All stuff remembered from their past lives..

Perhaps I mispoke and should not have used the term "silliness" as you are right there is consistency throughout all the films.


I suppose I let the memory of being turned off by the snarling Big Daddy teaching ghouls how to shoot assault rifles, directing the butcher zombies with his grunting and gesturing and the enitre "incredible voyage" type of feel of the cadre of ghouls angrily seeking out the people with the skyflowers get the best of me.

[fartpants]

Where's the silliness? It's the same as the other films. Sharp objects, blunt instruments, and weapons. All stuff remembered from their past lives..

so then why would an 8 year old girl have a past memory of stabbing someone... an adult zed might have this memory locked in their mind but an 8 year old girl, sorry just dont get it...

[axlish]

It makes even less sence when you consider that she had already eaten her father's arm off.

[bassman]

so then why would an 8 year old girl have a past memory of stabbing someone... an adult zed might have this memory locked in their mind but an 8 year old girl, sorry just dont get it...

She didn't necessarily have to had stabbed someone. She knew what a garden trowel was and what it was capable of. Bub knew how to use a gun.....doesn't mean he ever actually shot someone.

[fartpants]

She didn't necessarily have to had stabbed someone. She knew what a garden trowel was and what it was capable of. Bub knew how to use a gun.....doesn't mean he ever actually shot someone.

but Bub was an adult with 40 odd years of experience, and lets face it eveyone knows the basic " point and shoot" idea with a gun

[Yojimbo]

I mentioned the program with the monkey's using rocks as a hammer-like tool. I should have also mentioned that this behvior was not a matter of ingrained instinct, but rather something that the adults appear to teach the younger monkeys. Therefore as for the monkey's, it is not an instinctive act.

With humans, however, perhaps we do have an ingrained instinct to stab at things (we certainly have an instinctual ability to hit things that we wish to hurt and stabbing/bludgeoning is simply hitting whilst holding something) So if a zombie or ghoul is a human oprerating on instinct and some semblence of memory of the way things used to be, then maybe it is not unusual for a little waif ghoul to stab her mother with a sharp object (which if it isn't a sharp object becomes a simple bludgeoning) This is just a random thought, mind you, not one reached after a great amount of thought.

[bassman]

but Bub was an adult with 40 odd years of experience, and lets face it eveyone knows the basic " point and shoot" idea with a gun

I wasn't saying she would know how to shoot a gun. I can't remember how old the girl is(or if it's even mentioned), but I'm willing to bet her folks have made her put a garden trowel to use once or twice.

Anyway...I just don't think it's THAT big of a stretch. Sure it is just a little....but it is a movie about dead people walking.:confused:

[Philly_SWAT]

Indeed, Doctor Millard Rousch said in Dawn that the creatures were capable of using "objects as bludgeons", and other things remembered from "normal life". I dont think it is a stretch that she would use the trowel to stab her mother. While it is true that most zombies would just go in for lunch without grabbing a stabbing object, it is also true that most of us wouldnt become serial killers, yet a few do, Dahmer, Bundy, etc. What I mean by that is that people are different; "they're us"; therefore zombies would be different.

Of course, that scene is one of the more memorable ones from Night. It would have been a less effective scene if she had just moved in and starting eating, especially with the low special effect budget/capabilities that existed at the time. Remember, Savini was off in Viet Nam and not doing the FX for Night. So it was a good Hitchcockiam tribute to film the scene in that style.

So all in all, I think the main reason for the scene being that way was GAR making a visually striking part of a movie. Any questions of "but why, thats not logical", can be chalked up to GAR not having the zombie rules in mind or in effect yet. And I dont think that it is out of line for actions of other zombies that we have seen in the series, including the aforementioned cemetary zombie who earlier had picked up a rock to smash the window.

[jim102016]

but Bub was an adult with 40 odd years of experience, and lets face it eveyone knows the basic " point and shoot" idea with a gun

With Bub, it was more than "pointing and shooting". He showed he was doing more than that by first pulling the weapon's slide back, effectively reading the weapon for the famous 'dry-fire' aimed at Rhodes. My point is that most may know where the trigger is located and where the round exits, they may not be immediately familiar with putting it in firing condition. Especially if they're dead!

Bub didn't mindlessly use the pistol as a blunt object as that little girl did, he was somehow able to resurect a long forgotten skill he was obviously well-versed in.

[Yojimbo]

With Bub, it was more than "pointing and shooting". He showed he was doing more than that by first pulling the weapon's slide back, effectively reading the weapon for the famous 'dry-fire' aimed at Rhodes. My point is that most may know where the trigger is located and where the round exits, they may not be immediately familiar with putting it in firing condition. Especially if they're dead!

Bub didn't mindlessly use the pistol as a blunt object as that little girl did, he was somehow able to resurect a long forgotten skill he was obviously well-versed in.

Agree with Jim. Bub was definitely tapping into information and memories pre-wired in his brain, though he was a unique case -- according to Frankenstein -- and had more of an ability to learn and recall than the others.

[darth los]

Indeed, Doctor Millard Rousch said in Dawn that the creatures were capable of using "objects as bludgeons", and other things remembered from "normal life". I dont think it is a stretch that she would use the trowel to stab her mother. While it is true that most zombies would just go in for lunch without grabbing a stabbing object, it is also true that most of us wouldnt become serial killers, yet a few do, Dahmer, Bundy, etc. What I mean by that is that people are different; "they're us"; therefore zombies would be different.

Of course, that scene is one of the more memorable ones from Night. It would have been a less effective scene if she had just moved in and starting eating, especially with the low special effect budget/capabilities that existed at the time. Remember, Savini was off in Viet Nam and not doing the FX for Night. So it was a good Hitchcockiam tribute to film the scene in that style.

So all in all, I think the main reason for the scene being that way was GAR making a visually striking part of a movie. Any questions of "but why, thats not logical", can be chalked up to GAR not having the zombie rules in mind or in effect yet. And I dont think that it is out of line for actions of other zombies that we have seen in the series, including the aforementioned cemetary zombie who earlier had picked up a rock to smash the window.


I agree with you and bassman's statement that gar didn't have his rules set in stone yet. I also want to add that for the particular film notld the broadcast announcer says explicitly that "the bodies of the recently, unburied dead are returning to life and committing acts of MURDER." I think that murder comment was very significant. What does that mean? I could very well mean that ghouls were killing people in other ways that just biting them off the bat. So karen stabbing her mother would be consistent with what was stated that was happening in the film an hour earlier.

[RustyHicks]

Question this though.
She stabs her mother, when her mother came back while
Ben was down there, how come she had no bite marks.
If her daughter killed her, wouldn't she have eaten some piece
of her. Guess it's along the same line as why didn't the grave yard
zombie eat Johnny when Johnny fell and smashed his head.

[Monrozombi]

Question this though.
She stabs her mother, when her mother came back while
Ben was down there, how come she had no bite marks.
If her daughter killed her, wouldn't she have eaten some piece
of her. Guess it's along the same line as why didn't the grave yard
zombie eat Johnny when Johnny fell and smashed his head.

I would assume is that the noise from the upstairs commotion grabbed her attention from her meal that was her mom and went up to see.

I would also say that the cemetary zombie saw Barbara and went for her.

If you notice thorughout the films that once the zombies see another human they tend to stop eating and go for the human and drop their food.

[darth los]

It's probably because they know that their meal is already dead and isn't going anywhere. It could also be that they're distracted by moving prey. As sarah from day said," the activity excites them."

[Monrozombi]

its just the fact that a zombie's hunger is never satisified. I wouldn't even say its a challenge for them that would imply a higher brain function then even LOTD showed us.

[dmbfanintn]

Intelligence? Seemingly little or no reasoning power. What basic skills remain are more remembered behaviors from normal life.

There are reports of these creatures using tools, but even these actions are the most primative. The use of external articles as blugeons and so forth, I might point out to you that even animals will adobt this basic use of tools.

These creatures are nothing but pure motorized instinct, we can not be lulled by the concept that these are our family members or our friends, they are not. They will not respond to such emotion. They must be destroyed on sight!

[darth los]

It's too bad that by the time land came around those rules no longer applied.

[tkane18]

I always questioned the girl stabbing her mother but you can't deny that the scene is a great moment in horror cinema!

[Yojimbo]

It's too bad that by the time land came around those rules no longer applied.


Lets us all pray to whatever entity having power over zombie films that Diary of the Dead does not stray too far away from the original commandments, and that we do not see any more of the Big-Daddy groups of complex task oriented highly self-aware zombies.

This is to say that I did not mind the rock throwing, sharp garden tool wielding, even rifle stealing types of zombies. Hell, I even could tolerate Bub for that matter! I just...hated...Big Daddy (and the butcher and baker, blah blah_