My thoughts on Halloween 2007...

[MinionZombie]

Okay, so having caught wind of this work print floating around, being the complete movie nerd that I am, I had to check it out.

I'll say simply, that I'll totally buy the DVD when it comes out.

Yes, I did dig the film, here's a more detailed analysis on it...

Okay - first portion of the movie (i.e. pre 'modern day Haddonfield') was very good I felt. While the original had a very respectable, middle class family that out-of-the-blue produces a psycho, RZ has gone for a more realistic problem family for Michael to be a part of, I guess the initial spark to kick off his nutterdom is a tad washed over (i.e. skip to the rats), but the attention paid to the young Michael and his descent into madness is a new angle to come at the story from, which is nice - it's not a shot-for-shot remake in the least, it covers new ground as well as elements which were hinted at or mentioned in passing in the original film.

I thought Sherry Moon did a good job too. Yes, it's kinda iffy with these directors putting their respective missus' in their flicks (e.g. Kevin Smith and his wife), but Moon definitely doesn't play "Baby" from TDR...although perhaps she looks a tad too young to have a teenage daughter (despite being plausible - she most likely had one, the character I mean, when she was very young). Moon's performance is much more focussed after Michael goes loco, she appears pale and plain-faced, no glamour or toothy-smiling flair, but rather a mother of a nutter who's trying to figure it all out.

The new Loomis, again, a new direction rather than trying to repeat the original, so he looks a bit like a shagged out hippy with a psychology degree, but McDowell does a great job...perhaps a better job pre-Haddonfield-now, but over all top stuff.

The main problem with the film - at least from the work print - is all the stuff after we get to modern day Haddonfield. We're rushed into the trio of girls, including Laurie who is no longer the timid boy-shy book worm, but an odd, schizophrenic mix of sex-savvy, odd-glasses-wearing somebody-er-uther. I guess RZ was skipping some set up here for two reasons:

1) A fair bit of time has already passed by due to the focus on Michael's earlier years and time in the nut-house.
2) We've seen the original, so we 'get' the characters.

But they're not similar enough to the original characters for that second tact to work as well as it should, and they do feel like fodder, because very quickly we're rushing through the new version of the original film within half the time - this is the main problem with RZ's flick.

It's very half-n-half in the work print:

1st half - very good
2nd half - 40/60 good/bad

Now, I've heard that there were reshoots and more work to be done on the flick, so hopefully the focus of this was in the second half, because that's where it needed the work, but considering this work print was from May, they've had plenty of time since then to rejig the rest of the film. If I can see the problems with the second half, then RZ surely must see them...and hopefully he has, and has gone about fixing them.

I still don't get why this movie isn't premiering on Halloween night...very odd.

Anyway, hopefully the reshoots and changes that have supposed to have happened between when this work print was made and today, have improved the film.

I think from the version I've seen, it's a good film, even great film, teetering on the edge of trouble itself, the soon-to-be-seen changes applied to it being what will dictate which way it'll fall (hopefully, as I've said before, over to the side of quality).

Over all, 7/10 ... maybe a 6.5/10 - for the work print, of course. I expect my score will increase to an 8/10 with improvements that I hope to see.

...

Now to let the film digest in my noggin'...it'll be interesting to see what changes have been made, seeing a rough cut and then seeing the final thing...for a film student such as myself, it's interesting to see. But aye, I think it'll be a cold day in hell if I don't buy it on DVD.

[Cody]

DAMN Minion Thank you for the detailed analysis, Just as long as they stop the remakes at this film we are good.

As for it coming out on halloween night I think its cool, I mean its the name of the film and its a scary movie!

[bassman]

DAMN Minion Thank you for the detailed analysis, Just as long as they stop the remakes at this film we are good.

As for it coming out on halloween night I think its cool, I mean its the name of the film and its a scary movie!

It's not being released on Halloween. It's actually being released tomorrow. August 31, 2007.

[Cody]

oops! my mistake red it wrong

[tkane18]

I still don't get why this movie isn't premiering on Halloween night...very odd.

My thoughts exactly....or at least some time in October.
I felt the same way with Land of the Dead coming out in the middle of summer instead of October. That time of year just gives these kinds of movies that extra seasonal vibe.

[MissJacksonCA]

Dang I feel like I need to watch the WP again... I just thought it was traditional Zombie flare with a lot of vulgarity and not much else... grrr... why must you write such good reviews?

[MikePizzoff]

It's not being released on Halloween. It's actually being released tomorrow. August 31, 2007.

Which is also MY BIRTHDAY!

-My first name is the same as his.
-I live in Haddonfield.
-Ancora Psychiatric Facility is a short drive from me.
-John Carpenter is from my town.

I could keep going with horror references to my life but I'm just keeping it at Halloween ones.

[ProfessorChaos]

Happy early bday. Let's hope RZ delivers you a cool present in the form of a killer movie. (I've read some reviews, but am waiting to make up my own mind)

Here's to tomorrow night!

[DjfunkmasterG]

The tomato meter is only 13% for RZ's Halloween.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/halloween/

[MinionZombie]

Seems like a very polarising movie.

Although I feel there is a case - not from anybody here I mean, but in general - of people deliberately ripping into his films more because they personally hate Rob Zombie, which is pretty pathetic.

I also kinda think - what were people expecting, the exact same movie all over again? I'm so f*cking glad RZ went with a completely different vibe and looking at different aspects of the story that weren't included or were skipped over originally.

Personally, in terms of thumb-reviews, I'd give it a 3/4 thumbs up, it's more than so-so, but it's not deserving of a fully-erect-opposable.

[PJoseph]

I can tell you why this movie isn't playing at Halloween.

The studio wasn't going to release the film after they saw it, so after the reshoots they figured summer would fare better than Halloween, when SAW IV is going to be big box office.

And I agree that people like to rip into Rob Zombie, I am not one of them. I think he's a good director. However, in this case, he's made a very bad, boring, unscary, "horror" movie.

pJ

[ProfessorChaos]

Just got back from seeing this, and my gf and I both enjoyed it. There was a little too much vulgarity in the first couple of minutes, and for a sec, I was all like "WTF did RZ do to my movie?" But then, when lil' Mike is sitting outside and "Love Hurts" is playing before he goes inside to give 'em the business, it was obvious that RZ was going to do it justice. I think it was worth the money I paid to see it, except for all the teeny-bopper assholes who wouldn't shut the fudge up:mad:. I've already sent an email to my bud to score and advance copy so I can rewatch it on Oct. 31st.:elol:

[Cody]

ofcourse this movie isnt going to be the same as the original, just like dawns case

[Minerva_Zombi]

I'm going to see it. Of course, its not going to live up to the original. But, I'm still curious to see Rob Zombie's take on it. Rob Zombie doesn't make "Scary" movies. None of his movies are "scary". He makes Horror movies. I'm not looking for a scary movie like the original. I'm looking to see something different. Something new.

[MikePizzoff]

Damn it. I can't figure out which character Bill Moseley played. He is credited as Zach 'Z-Man' Garrett. Which character was this? Was it the dude with the long black hair and glasses that gets pinned to the wall via knife (like in the original)??? They didn't show that guys face really so I figured it could be him playing a [much] younger role.

[PJoseph]

Mosely was in the scene with Tom Towles and Leslie Easterbrook, where they played security guards. His line was "trick or fuc&ing treat."

The movie still blows since yesterday. Even harder.

pJ

[fartpants]

saw it and agree with M.Z it still feels like a film of two halves, the first is really good, i never thought i would feel sorry for Michael but its hard not to sympathise with the crap life this kid had,and to see his descent into madness was riveting viewing.But the second half just feels like RZ spent to much time on the first half and then tried to cram the whole of the original movie into the last 45 minutes, shame cos it really destroys all the good work he does in the first half of the movie.....still definitly worth a watch ( also the actors who played young Michael and Dr Loomis were excellent )

[zombiegirl]

I really enjoyed this movie. I know most people think it blows but I really liked it and will be purchasing a copy when it comes to DVD. In fact I liked it so well I may go back for a second viewing and left the theater wishing for a sequel. I thought Daeg Faerch did a superb job playing young Micheal and pulled the chracter off without a hitch. I also thought most of the acting was top notch along with the script and music. Sorry but I really don't know why so many dislike this movie. I give it an 8 out of 10.

[capncnut]

Indeed, I'm kinda hoping that you're right about that. Hell, it can't be any worse than Dawn 04.

[MissJacksonCA]

as a matter of fact capn... it can be...

I went to grab some comics from BAM and these guys were telling me how awesome it was but when I asked if they saw the orig. they were like no... so how do they know if he butchered it or not?

I will say though... he prolly coulda done a good prequel but I just thought it was ****e

[Minerva_Zombi]

as a matter of fact capn... it can be...

I went to grab some comics from BAM and these guys were telling me how awesome it was but when I asked if they saw the orig. they were like no... so how do they know if he butchered it or not?
I will say though... he prolly coulda done a good prequel but I just thought it was ****e


that's not how you go into watching a remake. is it going to be the original? OF COURSE NOT! no remake will ever be better than the original. (unless the original was a piece of ****). That's such a lame way to go see a movie. Let the original go and free your mind for a whole new movie.

[MissJacksonCA]

I wasn't expecting it to be exactly like the origional that would blow... what I was expecting was a modern update to a classic horror flick and what I got was garbage I would incinerate so future generations would never happen upon it. It was typical Rob Zombie cookie cutter flick with too much vulgarity and a script that I felt could have used some editing. It was gritty and that was great but it felt like it was way too long and poorly put together. It would have been better if it wasn't even assosciated with the Halloween franchise because I feel like RZ's riding the wave of a previous flicks fame to get people to go see it because quite frankly... his movies aren't great. They're so tragically similar I can't help but feel as an artist and such he's limited in his abilities and any possibility of growth is retarded.

[Minerva_Zombi]

well, i most certainly disagree with you. but, i guess we can agree to disagree with this one.:)

[MontagMOI]

ofcourse this movie isnt going to be the same as the original, just like dawns case

Except Michael Myers doesn't hiss and run faster than a speeding bullet :p

Mind you, the music's pretty much the same.:D

[DjfunkmasterG]

The only good part to Halloween 2007 was the first 5 minutes, and the beating young Michael gave that kid in the woods. Other than that it was a snore fest.

The use of Love Hurts while Michael sits on the curb and sulks was more comedic than anything... poor choice of music there Rob.

The last half of the film was boring boring boring. I mean did we honestly need to see him tear ass through his old house for 10 minutes?


Shave 20 minutes off this film and there is some real greatness in there.


Best line in the movie " Maybe I will choke the chicken and purge my snork all over them flappy ass tits." William Forsythe did that line with redneck white trash sleaze it made me very rpoud of well he pulled off scumbag. Sadly he is dispatched so soon.

[ProfessorChaos]

I still think this movie was great, and I'm a big fan of the first two. I think that RZ got way deeper into the mind and madness of Michael Myers and made him a much more believable character. Honestly, people, it can't be as "cookie-cutter" as any of the half-dozen crappy sequels that have came out for this franchise over the last decade or so. I do agree that it was a bit over the top with the swearing (especially the first ten minutes) and nudity, but I honestly think it has a more solid story than most are giving it credit for. I also respect the fact that he left no room for any sequels, so now we don't have to worry about MM coming back after a coma/getting his head chopped off, only it wasn't him, etc so he can come back and hunt down and kill his entire bloodline, so now he's running around chasing down his great-nephews and fifteenth cousin's grandkids on a beach resort in Hawaii, fist-fighting with Busta Ryhmes, or some crap like that...

[bassman]

I went to grab some comics from BAM and these guys were telling me how awesome it was but when I asked if they saw the orig. they were like no... so how do they know if he butchered it or not?



I think you kinda just answered your own question. They weren't comparing it to a pre-existing film and they liked it. It's not a question of whether or not they saw the original or if Zombie butchered it. They liked HIS film....

[MinionZombie]

Except Michael Myers doesn't hiss and run faster than a speeding bullet :p

Mind you, the music's pretty much the same.:D
If you saw the workprint, it apparently is the music from Yawn04 put in a temp music.

Also, Myers doesn't fly. :lol:

[LouCipherr]

Wow, this is very interesting MZ... Back a few months ago before the release and the first teaser trailer hit the public eye, I was the one saying this would be a kick-ass "TDR-Meets-JC's-Halloween" flick, and you were hesitant about the trailer and what the movie would turn out like..

Being a huge fan of the original, I still had an open mind about this remake. After seeing TDR, I figured if anyone had a firm grasp on that 70's look and cinemtography in a film, it was RZ. He also showed a particular prowess of building a sh*t-ton of tension in TDR. So I thought for sure Halloween would be along the same lines. I had faith Rob would tear this film a new ass..

Well, here it is, a few weeks after release, and here's what i have to say: The workprint AND the theatrical version BOTH suck ass - and i'm being kind.

The pacing in this movie is horriffic. My wife, while watching the theatrical version with myself and Dj, turned to me several times at the end and said "you mean it's not over yet?!" No, my dear, it wasn't, and it just got worse from there. I felt like I was watching the end of Lord of the Rings trilogy!

Besides the terrible pacing, whoever was supervising the continuity of this film did a TERRIBLE job. No, not terrible.. that's not the word I want ot use. More like reprehensible for a flick with this kind of budget. That person should've been fired and never let on a movie set ever again.

Example 1 of many:

Ok, so in the theatrical versions ending, Michael puts out Loomis' eyes with his thumbs - yet a minute later Michael is draggin Loomis through the house, dead (mistake #1 - fu*king killing Loomis?!) and a closeup reveals - no blood on loomis' face and his eyes looked intact! (mistake #2). WTF ROB?!

There's only three things I enjoyed about this film:

1) I do like how RZ represented Michael as big and strong as he was in the film. When he throws around Foree in the truck stop restroom, that just ruled.

2) Bill Moseley, if even for only 5 seconds.

3) William Forsyth's lines at the beginning of the movie were just flat-out hilarious. "bitch, I will crawl over there and..." well, you know the rest. :lol:

Those are the only 3 things I can praise about this film. If I had to list all the things I didn't like, I'd reach the post limit before I was 1/2 way done.

I will say, however, that the work print had not only a better ending for the film, but the pacing was a tad better (I stress 'a tad better'). At least the WP flowed a bit better than the theatrical, but goddamn Rob, WTF were you thinking?! :rockbrow:

I thought the first teaser trailer that was released was fantastic. It made this movie look like it was going to kick all kinds of ass, but alas, it not only fell short, it never took a single goddamn step. So much for the guy that made TDR pulling another rabbit out of his hat.

I also had a chance to read the first-draft script of the film prior to seeing the WP or the theatrical, and I think if RZ would've stuck to that script the movie would've been really good.

For some reason, I get the feeling he second-guessed himself. I remember hearing how, after the first test screening and the feedback he rc'vd, he went back and did some re-shoots to supposedly "tighten up the story" - wrong. It was more like to replace 30% of the film. This is where I think he went wrong.

Now the word on the street is Tyler Mane has signed up for being Michael in the remake of part 2. That's right, straight from Mane's mouth, there will be a part 2 and he will be playing Michael. At least now I know to save my money when that piece of sh*t come out.

100%, complete and total disappointment from all angles.

and... I have to get this off my chest: McDowell was no Loomis. Sorry, but Pleasance was Loomis, and Loomis was Pleasance. There is no replacing him for this character, period, end of story, so stop fu*king trying! Quit while you're behind! :mad:

...we now return you to your regularly scheduled program (which is probably much better than this turd of a movie)...

[MinionZombie]

Part 2 remake? :confused:

Having not seen the theatrical version, does Michael not get killed at the end of the theatrical, as opposed to the Work Print where he gets nailed?

[LouCipherr]

Yes, straight from a video interview I watched with RZ & Tyler Mane, Mane confirmed he did indeed sign up for part 2 while Rob said there was no way he'd be involved in part 2 as he wanted to make a movie with a beginning, middle, end, and leave it alone from there.

MAJOR ENDING SPOILER ALERT BELOW! Read at your own risk.

MZ, the ending of the theatrical cut was COMPLETELY different from the Workprint, however, Michael still bought the farm in a way that I can't see any way he would survive what happened to him. In the Workprint, he was shot to death in the front yard - in the theatrical, Michael Kills loomis in the front yard how I described in the post above. Laruie runs in the house to escape. Michael chases Laurie (after a WAY too long and drawn out cat-stalking-the-mouse sequence in the house) to the top floor of the house and rusher her - they both go through a top floor window together and crash to the ground, seemingly out cold for a few seconds. Then, Laruie sits up, straddles Michael who's laying on the ground and grabs the gun she was trying to load before they fell and puts it point-blank to his face and pulls the trigger.. <click> nothing. She pulls again. <click> nothing. Michael comes to, grabs her hand, and as he does, she struggles for a sec and then pulls the trigger... <BAM!> the gun goes off point blank in his face, effectively killing him dead with a point-blank gunshot to the face. They only thing they show is Laurie with the gun pull the trigger, and when it goes off, she gets DOUSED in blood and starts screaming her ass off. The End. IT FU*KING SUCKED! I mean, c'mon, how the fu*k do you kill LOOMIS in part 1?

*urge to kill, rising*

The one thing funny that Mane said was "I signed on to part two because I thought you were involved (points at Rob)" Rob says "nope, I'm not doing another" and Mane replies with "Well, that changes everything" :lol:

[MinionZombie]

lol, poor old Mane eh?

I guess he should have consulted rather than assumed.

It sounds as if RZ didn't have a superb ride making this film, studio interference perhaps? Plus, he was saying he got all strung out as he was also making his animated film at the same time, which he had to put on the shelf for a bit in order to finish Halloween...so...I guess he wasn't as focussed as he would have liked to have been.

Plus, perhaps RZ works best with his own content. That said, if the whole film had been like the first half, then it would have been much better, but still, aside from the rather ropey second half, I still dug it because there were plenty of things in it that I really liked.

And get ready to sh*t your ass, but I totally dug the new Loomis, because - for one thing - it wasn't a Donald Pleasance impersonation. I liked the somewhat hippy-doc vibe before it updates to present day and he's gone all "Gangster No. 1" look. I reckon there were suits and producers getting their faces and opinions shoved in all over the place, plus hectic schedules and pressures and all sorts of things.

With TDR it just sounds like it was RZ and his merry band of dedicated cast & crew just sauntered off into the desert for a month and came back kicking & screaming with the end result - a superb film.

[LouCipherr]

And get ready to sh*t your ass, but I totally dug the new Loomis, because - for one thing - it wasn't a Donald Pleasance impersonation.

*grabs a newspaper, rolls it up and smacks MZ on the nose repeatedly like a dog*

NO! NO, MZ, NO! :lol:

Ok, I'll give you this - I'm glad McDowell didn't "imitate" Pleasance. Even setting aside that you're trying to replace the unreplaceable, he still didn't do a good job. That could've been a crappy script, or it could've been crappy acting, I dunno, but it wasn't good. There were some good pieces of dialouge from him ('The darkest souls are not those which exsist within the hell of the abyss, but those which break free of the abyss and move silently among us' - now THAT was a good line, but probably the only one I would ever quote as being 'good') but, overall, he just fell so short of the character itself. Most of his lines were just... hokey and flat out goofy. Not to mention, McDowell didn't display anywhere near the desperation that Pleasance did as far as needing to stop Michael. It just felt "phoned in" so-to-speak.

I was shocked to all hell that McDowell said he never saw the original. Are there people out there that have still not seen the original Halloween?! BLASPHEMY I SAY!!!! :lol:

This is just IMO, as it seems the movie has done fantastically well. That, however, I chalk up to an ignorant movie-going public - which is another topic for another time. ;)

[ProfessorChaos]

If I were in charge of remaking Halloween, or could have gave RZ some suggestions, I would have just made it a three and a half hour killfest, with the prequel elements, then the "re-envisioning" of Halloween and Halloween 2 thrown in, to make it all one super-long gore-frenzy shocker...that'd would've really rocked.

As much as I enjoyed RZ's take on Halloween, I don't have a good feeling about a sequel...how the hell are they going to bring both Loomis and Michael back? Another director?!?!? :rockbrow: Don't know about that either...stupid money-grubbing corporate di*kholes are gonna fu*k this up. I could be wrong, but it's gonna take a hell of a lot to doctor up the ending of the first one to begin a sequel that takes place right where the first left off.

Speaking of the first one, it's gonna come out on DVD December 18th:rolleyes:...why not rush it out and let us get our paws on it to watch on Halloween night, not the week before Christmas? WTF?

Oh well...guess that's why I'm not a big fat cat film company executive...too much common sense:)

[MinionZombie]

But Xmas tis the season to buy each other DVDs! :)

My family usually ends up buying each other DVD box sets, haha.

DVD sales go nuts at Xmas, so it makes sense to bring it out then. As for releasing it, they should have theatrically done it on Halloween, there's a whole marketing ploy around that...but oh well...

Lou - ach, there's loads of people who haven't seen key movies, or what others view to be key movies. I was talking to a bloke I was working with t'other day, and he'd not seen Casablanca, he hadn't seen Aliens, he hadn't seen Citizen Kane and he hadn't seen Dawn-of-the-motherf*ckin'-Dead! :eek:

[AcesandEights]

Okay, MZ, you've convinced me to bother giving this film a chance. If it has some decent aspects to it, I can invest the time to see if it will be to my particular liking.

As you say, it's polarizing and therein--for me--says that there must be something to the film that appeals to enough people for it to be worth a try.

Still, I'll wait till it's out on DVD or I can order it on-demand.

Thanks.

[ProfessorChaos]

found a funny youtube vid making fun of halloween 2007 the other day. as much as i enjoyed rz's take on the story of michael myers, i still got a good laugh out of this:
fxI83FQ0gW8

[MinionZombie]

found a funny youtube vid making fun of halloween 2007 the other day. as much as i enjoyed rz's take on the story of michael myers, i still got a good laugh out of this:
fxI83FQ0gW8
I too actually quite liked it, even if the second half was a bit weak, but that video is rather funny. :)

I think he's best sticking to his own films though, and I'm looking forward to see T-Rex when he gets to it (he's not started writing it yet apparently).

[bassman]

:lol:

I missed that video before. I like Zombie's Halloween(more than the original:moon:), but that is some funny stuff.

Anywho.... Zombie seems to speak before he thinks. He once said he would never do a remake and then he made Halloween. Then later he said there was no way he would do a sequel because his film was the end of the story....but now he's apparently working on Halloween 2.:rockbrow:

http://joblo.com/halloween-2-poster

[MinionZombie]

:lol:

I missed that video before. I like Zombie's Halloween(more than the original:moon:), but that is some funny stuff.

Anywho.... Zombie seems to speak before he thinks. He once said he would never do a remake and then he made Halloween. Then later he said there was no way he would do a sequel because his film was the end of the story....but now he's apparently working on Halloween 2.:rockbrow:

http://joblo.com/halloween-2-poster
Aye I know, I was reading about that and just thought "wtf are you doing?"

I want T-Rex from him, not Halloween 2.

At the very least, give us that animated film that's been going nowhere for ages ... and I was pissed to hear that a full-on extras-laden 3 Disc DVD of Halloween 2007 is coming out with an epic making of (a la Devil's Reject), so here I am with my 2 Disc bought a year ago...cheers Dimension, yeah, ta muchly. :rolleyes:

[ProfessorChaos]

yeah, that 3-disc set was released in the states right before halloween this year. from what i can tell, it's basically the 2-disc set with the 3rd disc (making of) thrown in a new package.

looking forward to halloween 2, as long as it's done right....but i as i've stated previously, i think halloween 1 & 2 are the only ones that are worth watching, and that's where the story ends in my book.(i just pretend loomis and myers died in the hospital explosion, end of....)and i really wish that rz had spent less time on little mikey's childhood and made an epic film that combined the story of the first two films into a three hour bloodbath of mayhem and violence.

i quite enjoyed the remake and think they could make a halloween 2 which is pretty true to the original...but after that, they should let it be. we don't need another story about internet contests ran by busta rhymes taking place in the old myers house, or michael chasing down his sister's dogsitter's step-kids, or whatever ludicrous plots they were coming up with. leave it at h2.

on a side note, my michael myers mask arrived a few weeks back (ordered too late for halloween) and looks great. it is practically identical to the mask used in the original film, not one of the crappy looking ones from any of the numerous sequels. i'll try to post some pics soon.