I thought race was based on colour...

[MinionZombie]

...not lifestyle choice. :confused:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/skynews/20070908/tuk-chef-in-hot-water-over-tv-race-slur-45dbed5_1.html

I remember when a bunch of "travellers" (or better to be described as "scum without an address") moved in to the Safeway (as it was then) carpark in my town.

I was walking down from high school and just wandered into the middle of it and then realised "uh oh" when I saw a bunch of scumbags rocking a car to try and roll it over to make way for their caravans.

For the next couple of weeks it was nothing but grubby kids covered in god knows what screaming abuse at people, threats, thefts, their stained pants hanging on lines between trees and "the town drunk" (for the travellers) staggering around the nearby petrol station huffing on fags in the most f*cked up suit you've ever seen.

So with twats like that caused nothing but trouble, no wonder the good ones get lumped in.

As for this traveller thing, or gypsies (are they the same thing?) ... anyway, when we were on holiday in Ireland we saw some classic-style gypsies on the sides of the roads, you know, horse-drawn-cart, hand-made craft to sell, those caravan things made out of wood but kinda look like a massive beer barrel. They seemed alright, alternative but alright indeed.

Okay, let's call it "legitimate travellers", rather than the scum who have a similar lifestyle, but are just there to cause grief and trouble - like separate camps if you will (with some bleed-over no doubt ... and just to disclaim, in a really boring PC/BBC way that, not all 'organised travellers' (i.e. leagues of caravans in a conga-line) are bad).

Heck, on a recent project I was working on (doing post production stuff) I saw interviews with a few travellers. One woman had a swarm of kids, but seemed to be the sort who was not about herself, but was there to serve her kids, just wanted to provide - which is a good quality. There's plenty of people in all "normal" classes who could do with a chunk of that reality.

There was another bloke, one of the gypsy community who was like an artist sort, drew, painted, did music as well I think. He lived in some caravan on some farm (a fair amount of farms around here employ - or used to employ (because of the influx of Polish workers) - gypsies. They could live on the land in caravans, and then work on the fields in the day.

But they were saying that that work has all-but dried up because of Polish (and other) labour taking over their workbase ("dey-duk-ar-djerbs!!")...which was interesting. Not just builders and plumbers and other blue collar type things, but also now in the sector of work that's not really official at all, basically the only sort of work gypsies can get...which I thought was an intriguing and little mentioned result of immigration.

It's kinda funny in a way spotting the "conga line of Polish" staggering up and down the road (either to or from Morrison's - used to be Safeway) with their bags of food, or if waiting in the carpark, standing there with odd expressions...like half-threatening and half-threatened ... with a slice of confusion...like they flat-out-know they're "well foreign" and out-of-place...which makes me think, why can't something be done to inspire a better economy in countries like Poland, so that people wouldn't have to leave their homes just to earn a crust doing someone else's sh*t jobs the natives don't wanna do? Hmmm...

Anyway, a rather long-winded meander through my mind on personal-experience-with and viewings-of travellers of different types, all from this Yahoo article, which comes down to the point - how are travellers a "race" of people? :lol:

Race is based on colour, surely? Not lifestyle, because in that case Vegans are a race of people...and so are Trekkies! :eek:

Hey - and in that case - SO-THE-POO-ARE-WE! Zed Heads - we should get marching and demand some rights ... I duno which ones, but anything I suppose! :lol:

[AcesandEights]

I was walking down from high school and just wandered into the middle of it and then realised "uh oh" when I saw a bunch of scumbags rocking a car to try and roll it over to make way for their caravans.

:confused:

Jesus...

I see your point and agree, MZ. Interesting details, to say the least. I mean, hey, if people want to live a rootless, migratory existence, far be it from me to tread on them, but I've never seen, read or heard anything of real redeeming value about pikeys and I'm not apt to give them a chance to win me over. It IS a life-style choice, but one that brings with it a likelihood of a very real familiarity with illegal and shady-as-hell behavior. Sure people are born into it and the limited options that leaves those people with is sad, but that's hardly exculpatory.

[MontagMOI]

MZ - I agree. The word 'Racism' is pretty much a blanket term used to make people shut up.
How long before someone is accused of racism for calling someone a 'chav'?

[MinionZombie]

MZ - I agree. The word 'Racism' is pretty much a blanket term used to make people shut up.
How long before someone is accused of racism for calling someone a 'chav'?
Oh geez, I certainly hope that doesn't start. I already saw a programme on Sky with some woman defending chavs...I mean how dare she challenge a universal British hatred! :D

Anyway, the whole PC movement has just gotten over the top, in situations like this, it's just a bunch of flapping gums.

Sweet-ass avatar by the way, Butters rules! :cool:

[Cody]

MZ - I agree. The word 'Racism' is pretty much a blanket term used to make people shut up.
How long before someone is accused of racism for calling someone a 'chav'?

Except I dont use the word Chav. I'm American. Infact I don't even know what a "chav" is:D

[Yojimbo]

Except I dont use the word Chav. I'm American. Infact I don't even know what a "chav" is:D

Yeah, sorry for my ignorance too, brothers, but as an ignorant American, I have no idea what a "chav" is either. "Pike" too.

Here in the states we don't really have much of a gypsy or traveler sect. We do have a pretty amazing homeless problem here in Los Angeles where there are areas of cars and motor homes that people park and live out of, but that is very different from the Gypsy way of life and is only similar in that there are folks living out of homes on wheels.

As far as the PC movement goes, I agree that it can get out of hand, and really, in so doing the entire idea behind the movement gets lost in the fart vapor of the very ridiculous thing that it has become.

[MissJacksonCA]

Wow MZ your whole spcheel made me think...

While here in the states we're all part of the same country kinda made me think of people moving from state to state taking jobs away from other states residents ... like for instance... a lot of California natives move to Colorado and take jobs away from Coloradians... but I guess we're all Americans so whats the hullabaloo but still... meh...

I had no idea what they meant by pikeys and I thought travellers were Yanks on vacation... ooops... thanks for the clarification though man...

I've heard of gypsies but never met or seen any here in the states however what we do have I guess could best be called travellers... They're basically groups of people without homes that live in RVs or VW vans in parking lots of Wal Marts here ( Wal Mart literally tells people to park their 'homes' in their lots for free ) ...and for employment they spend their days either as day laborers or having people sign petitions for a dollar a valid signature. Personally I didn't much care for some of them I began to sign one guys petition (who was telling me about his 'group') and I swear to effing god there was like 400 papers he had me sign I had carpal tunnel by the time I was done I tell you what.

I dont really get people who complain about someones use of terms that they dont care to hear. If you hear someone use a derrogatory term will you stop watching the person all-together or are you just requesting a better editing job by the show? Because if you're still going to watch the guy you may as well be saying pikey yourself by choosing to ignore that he says such terms.

Personally I could give a flying fig who says what on the telly because hey... I'd rather know how people really think and/or feel so I can better know if I want to continue to support them. When Jamie Foxx and Whoopi Goldberg defended Michael Vick I'm sorry I refuse to pay to see them on the TV and refuse to continue to watch them on any film. Its not that I dont want to interact with people whos views are different from mine so much as some views are so grossly offensive I can't bear to hear them speak without being able to beat them into the ground. Like Bill O Reilly ...if I have to hear him I should be able to whip him. I think some views shouldn't be supported and people who harbor such offensive views need to be ousted from audible society with haste.

I wouldn't say his comment was racial so much as it is about a paticular sect of society that spans all races but only holds one type of person. Like it could be religous or past time or occupational.

[Danny]

good lord, im not posting another devo video, just google chavscum or something theyve been around since the late 90's people.

-oh and a pikes a fish...though it does sound like an aussie style insult to me as well.

But yeah theres gypsies that travel in hand craved wagons and spit through forked "metal hands" (:rolleyes:) to curse ya and whatnot ,then theres the plastic semi rv driving one up from the homeless in all but attitude scabs who nick bikes and lawnmowers and smash windows just becuase.
I remember when i was about 9 my grandad still ran the big garage frnachise he had back then and i was walking down the A38 form that to a neighbouring town and in an old lane parking area next to the garage was loads of caravans and jsut for walking past on the path this beaten up blue van like soemthing outa mad max pulls up and a kid about 17 years old throws a brick at my head screaming "THIS IS OUR LAND!!", i ran home screaming as my skull was pouring blood ,still feel scars under my hair, and my grandad and a group of AA blokes and nieghbours, who ahd alo had kdis attacked didnt even bother with the police and all shwoed up, about 60 people in all and basically said "get the **** out of our town and away from our kids or we will kill you", they stayed another two days till a local teenage girl was raped then by the morning they had vanished. ho-hum.:rolleyes:

oh and funny thing, a while back i see a woman in derby go into a 'NEXT'store blatantly shoplift some crappy £2.99 charm bracelet thignies adn go down the road cornering people saying "D'YA WANT-TA GET-TA CHARM BLESSED B-YA GYSPIE WOOMAN?"

seriously if someone fell for that they need the there face neext to the word berk in the dictionairy.

[MinionZombie]

seriously if someone fell for that they need the there face neext to the word berk in the dictionairy.

BERK?! FEEEEEED MEEEEEE!!! :D
http://www.contactmusic.com/new/home.nsf/lookup/trapdoor2x23x01x05xfc/$file/trapdoor2x23x01x05xfc.jpg

Bloody nora, sounds like you guys had some really bad travellers there. I didn't hear about too much violence from the ones we had several years back, but they definitely caused a lot of trouble regardless, a lot of intimidation.

I find it hard to believe that it's so hard to move these people on to somewhere else, I mean they were camping out on private property - Safeways carpark - but I guess it's just how sh*t happens. :rolleyes::(

[Tricky]

Aaah the good old travelling community!we get a LOT of them round where i live,you can see where they've been parked before on our leafy country lanes because you'll come across a patch of ground covered in stained matresses,wrecked furniture,bags of rubbish & usually for some reason they'll have set at least one of the trees nearby on fire so theres a blackened dying trunk there.At night they drive around in transit vans casing out farms & houses where they can steal stuff from,& on a saturday morning they all go in the post office in town to pick up their benefits,which usually involves threatening a bystander or the cashier in the process.And they stink.
The other week they'd flattened the fence around the local football teams field & set up camp on the pitch,they were there for about a week before they were moved on,so the football pitch will be covered in glass & allsorts,wouldnt fancy doing a sliding tackle on that!Last year i was walking my staffordshire bull terrier and a van with gypos in pulled up behind me & they started hassling me to sell them my dog,they were offering loads of money for him but theres absolutely no way i'd have handed him over,especially as they'd have beaten & kicked him to "harden him up" for dog fighting,which is just plain cruel,i hate dog fighting & the kind of people who run it :mad:
so yeah,im not a fan of pikeys & tinkers,like MZ says the real gypsies who have the colorful wooden caravans are usually nice people,but the other type as ive described are just scummy leeches who are into everything illegal & are usually extremely nasty people.The council built a proper site for them round here a lot of years ago,its still there but hardly any of them use it!for some reason they prefer trespassing & breaking & entering :rolleyes:
A lot of local factories that have grassy banks around them have stuck whacking great boulders right round the banks to stop them parking on there!and a lot of farmers have put what look like world war 2 anti-tank obstacles in their field gateways for the same reasons!

[coma]

A bit of info to the best of my knowledge
A Piker, Tinker or a traveller is a gypsy, other wise known as a Romani (as they call themselves). Romani are an ethnic group with their own language (or dialects) that are often nomadic throughout Europe.
Travellers usually refer to the groups of crooked Romani that travel about conning people. I am not trying to paint with too broad a brush, this is just what I understand from my limited knowledge of them

In upstate New York there is a community of travellers that have a home base/neighborhood. They are very insular and are known for , among other things, construction con jobs such as repaving driveways but what they do is just smear oil on it and call it new. The upstate group are Romani by way of Ireland as far as I know.

By race they may be defined as a distinct ethnic minority and have had pogroms directed against them such as A NAzi extermination program.

[AcesandEights]

A bit of info to the best of my knowledge
A Piker, Tinker or a traveller is a gypsy, other wise known as a Romani (as they call themselves). Romani are an ethnic group with their own language (or dialects) that are often nomadic throughout Europe.

Irish and English travelers are separate from Romani (Romanichal), though they do and have intermingled on occasion and there are a lot of cultural sharing between the groups (ie. the traveler cant borrowed some Romani terms over the last century).

The US does have travelers, though far less than the UK, spread out over a greater area. It should also be noted that, the RV people Miss Jackson referred to are not necessarily travelers, rather travelers often fall into a mass of other folk who live a migratory RV lifestyle in the US.

Also, I had found out on another message board that the reason why the Brits approach the travelers differently than say, Ireland, is due to them being considered and recognized as an ethnic group by the Brit government at some point in the last half of the 20th century.

[_liam_]

wellll pikey is technically an irish-specific derogatory term...

but living near glastonbury, i can tell you from first hand dealings that most travellers are bastards

[MissJacksonCA]

I didn't remember this til now but for my fellow Americans... Law and Order: CI did a story about travellers and called them travellers but they were Irish folk who RV'd it across the country stealing everything in their wake...