How would you survive an apocalyptic zombie rampage, if one occurred ?

[KL70]

How do you think you'd (seriously or humorously) be able to survive an
apocalyptic zombie attack (of zombies from your favorite horror film
featuring them), if one occurred in your entire country ?

[Neil]

You could easily lock yourself away such that you were safe. The problem would be food & water...

For example, I could in an instant jump into my loft and be 100% safe there, but with no food... Oh dear!

[Danny]

id think id get too cloustraphoic if i locked myself in my house, so id probably try and stay on the move till it all ended, on foot or bike most likely, keeping quiet, maybe staying in certain areas for awhile, like a woodland near a freshwater stream, you could build a small platofrm or treehouse type thing out in the trees to sleep safely without fear of an man mad ebarricades falling down as you slept.

[ProfessorChaos]

since i live in a heavily-populated area, i'd get hell outta dodge, head back to my small hometown and meet up with my family (lots of guns in the house) and we'd most likely hit the road as a group and head up to pacific northwest, canada, etc. as for food, we'd hunt or grow our own. we're a pretty tight-knit group, so i'm sure that we'd persevere.

[Slain]

I'm lucky in that the wilderness practically starts at the edge of town. I would just wait a few miles out in the hills for all the killing and what not to die down; then I would take to scavenging abandoned places for what I needed. I figure most of the zombies will go chasing after people fleeing town on the highways, and leave me a relatively deserted area to get by in.

[AcesandEights]

I live in such a heavily populated area that my initial outlook with regards to survival would be *highly* dependent on how the intial stages of the outbreak worked. Slow? Fast? Mass panic, little hints that maybe keyed me off to a need to get organized?

Also, what I would do would also depend on the nature of the outbreak...but getting out and away from where I am (very close to NYC *GULP*), would be a must. Ideally, I'd say making it North to the mountains would be a must, but sooooo many others would have the same idea. I'd have to try and round up willing friends and whatever family they had along and move out from there. Potable water, food and-- given long enough--medicine and antibiotics would all be major concerns.

I'd also have the sincere hopes that the risen dead would be slow and not unduly attracted by the scent of burning wood. Anyone know off the top of their heads how far downwind the scent of a burning fire can carry?

[Neil]

The problem is after a little while food is scarce...

After a good while, everything you need to keep things going ain't available. Your tyre gets a puncture, all the ones out there are rotten... Your knife goes blunt, all the rest out there are rusty... Etc etc...

[bassman]

If it started off slowly, then I would immediately head for the grocery store and stock up on as many canned foods as possible. Then I would head back to my house(I would have been carrying weapons this whole time), get everything inside, and then knock out my front and back porch stairs.

My house is strangely high off of the ground, so if I take the stairs out, i'm fine. Except for the basement, but I could easily knock those out as well. Then I would just sit back and hope it all ends quickly...

[Danny]

^ someones been reading a certian brookes novel huh bassman?

[bassman]

^ someones been reading a certian brookes novel huh bassman?

Actually, no. I've never read the zombie survival guide. I just noticed when I moved into my new house that it's perfect because it's a good 15ft off the ground.

Does Brooks mention that in the guide or something?

[AcesandEights]

I'd have to look that up, but knocking out stairs is an old standby. A great trick really, because it's simple and likely to be fairly effective.

[bassman]

I'd have to look that up, but knocking out stairs is an old standby. A great trick really, because it's simple and likely to be fairly effective.

Yeah....and to think....if everyone in NOTLD went upstairs and did that, they would all be alive. Except for Cooper's girl, anyway...

[SRP76]

Wouldn't work. Eventually, enough deadheads would pile up in your livingroom to form a ramp right up to your landing. Then, it's lunchtime.

I don't think there's any such thing as a foolproof way to survive. A lot would depend on how long the deadheads "live". If it's the old "10 to 12 years" thing, you're done. No way in hell you're going to dodge 6 billion of them for a decade.

"You can dodge some of the zombies all of the time, and you can dodge all of the zombies some of the time, but you can't dodge all of the zombies all of the time."

You'd have better luck trying to grab a space shuttle, and taking your chances with the moon, or something.

[AcesandEights]

Yeah, I think the stairs would work well as a nice stop gap, but if you're in the middle of a suburban sprawl it would be a problem unless things were somewhat controlled fairly quickly by external forces.

I think survival prospects on a 10 or 12 year timeline would be horribly bleak, but I believe people could survive...not a ton, but I think some could with a good headstart, near ideal circumstances and a ton...*ton* of luck. Another big question that always comes up in these scenarios is if the undead would freeze (which I hope would be the case). Something like that would have a positive effect on survivability for the living (though it's far from a magic bullet).

Hell, just surviving 10 years in a post apocalyptic world without reliable access to food, water and medicine would be a major issue. I can see the sign off of the last living person scraped onto the side of the interior of an old, rusty corn silo that had been converted to a habitat by its eventually lone occupant:

"Survived the early exodus from the cities...it was madness. Survived the snapping jaws of roving gangs of the undead. Survived multiple run-ins with raiders and a nasty knife wound. Survived seeing my family die to zombies and an outbreak of Cholera from the water supply when the creek went bad on us. Survived the last stray zombie I saw in this part, some 423 days ago, if my figurin' is right. Dying...it would appear...today, from tetanus...what a bitch..."

[SRP76]

I think "going into a shell" would be the worst thing anyone could possibly do. The natural reaction is to grab your family, and maybe some friends, and try to get by. I feel this is suicide.

A big key would be to gather as many warm bodies as you possibly can. "Strength in numbers" is extremely accurate in this circumstance. You need all the eyes, ears, and trigger fingers you can possibly get. No such thing as "too many" in your group.

Keep moving. No place is a foolproof haven. It's best to stay mobile, because, no matter where you are, the dead will home in on you. More and more of them, converging on your location. Stay in one place, their numbers will overcome you, eventually. Don't let them pack up and bumrush you.

While on the move, be sure to take out every single zombie you possibly can. Like Logan said, they aren't inclined to just drop over; you have to make them do it. Sooner or later, somebody (likely you) will have to face them: all 6 billion. Best to try to hack away as many numbers off that total as you can, a bit at a time, rather than waiting for some Armageddon battle (which you would have zero chance of surviving).

Since you're on the move, you should be able to happen upon enough food, water, supplies, etc. to keep yourself in the game indefinitely.

I think that's the way to give yourself the best chance of surviving.

[ProfessorChaos]

i beg to differ about the whole "no way you could remain stationary and survive" side of this argument. i feel that if you had access to certain resources (bull-dozers, bricks, construction materials, etc), a group of highly trained and motivated individuals, and enough fortitude, it is possible.

if you found a very isolated area where you could construct an impassible barrier of some sort (10 ft concrete wall, moat, etc) and had enough stockpiled medications, seeds to begin a community garden, weapons, and various forms of entertainment (playing cards, board games- it may sound silly, but people need to be entertained), plus a team/unit of people who would work together for the common good, it would be possible to build a haven that could be maintained for years, if not decades...of course, life as we know it now couldn't exist there, but no one would be bringing their dvd players, xbox, ps3 or any of that stuff.

[GhostWolf]

It all really depends on the specifics. Are the reanimated slow enough that i can outwalk them? Are they relatively smart, or do they operate on base instinct? Can they be fooled into thinking a building has "food" in it, or do they poses the seemingly metaphysical ability to track their "prey"? How contagious is the cause? Do they fear things (like fire, etc..)? How did it all start? and what is the situation on a national level? Are things holding together, Or is it complete chaos?

Depending on the answers to these questions my plan ofcourse alters. If things are under control, or will be fairly shortly, i have enough in the way of weapons and ammunition to hold off a seige for at least three months before i have to start improvising. The way the kitsap penninsula is set up, the most likely threat would be the city folk harrassing the smaller towns, rather than the reanimated themselves. The people i know hereabouts are similiarly equiped to myself, and with our numbers, a militia of sorts could easily be thrown together to secure areas like Poulsbo, Kingston, and Bainbridge Island, and then maintain their security.

The local SCA chapter is well enough trained and cohesive enough to form a formidable Anti-zombie force of its own without the use of firearms. So if it's going to be a long term thing, a community could be formed and defended. And be in sufficient numbers to retake our county atleast. With alittle bit of coordination with the other chapters, i could easily see the bulk of the western portion of washington returning to some form of normality within a handfull of months. Not to mention the fact that there are Marines at Bangor, PSNS, and keyport in sufficient numbers to do some hefty damage. And then there is Macord and Fort Lewis no more than an hours drive away. Assuming some control was left there, that handfull of months lessens signifigantly.

All said, my general plan would be to form large militant groups. With well defined rules and regulations to keep their populations healthy and happy. Establish Fort-cities with cohesive defense plans, and ride it out. If need be, there are plenty of isolated places to run to. And plans can always be altered at a later date. I forsee myself handling a zombie apocolypse well.

[Wyldwraith]

Well,
Myself and friends of mine have been playing the "How to Survive a Zombie Apocalypse" theory game for years. Over the years we've punched holes in most plans, refined others, alternately depressed ourselves and patted each other on the back. Here's a bit of what we came up with.

1) "Civilization" is done for. Its back to the tribal structure if humanity has any chance of surviving in groups. As a people, members of First World nations have an incredibly overblown sense of their own personal worth. Most of us cant even conceive of laying down our lives for anyone but someone we love, many can't even do that. Without that capacity for self-sacrifice we'd either become loners (a way to a quick dead if ever there was one) or something akin to extended family units. (Not by any means necessarily by blood, but thats how most would come to relate to the people they live with/depend on etc. IMO) Various Tribes might form common cause temporarily for a project of mutual benefit, but then so did the Native Americans. We know the structure works, even at subsistence-level living.

2) Its a common misconception that stockpiles of useful supplies would quickly run out. According to Wikipedia there is at any point in-country enough retail goods to supply all contractual obligations for 90 days without receiving additional goods. That means somewhere in America, added all up together for every Wal-Mart, Publix, Walgreens etc that you see there's 3 more of them worth of goods at their maximum capacity.

Just how many people are going to survive the first year of such a holocaust?
We can remove the millions with critical handicaps immediately. Yes, there will be exceptions that prove the rule. Somewhere a large family is willing to fight and die to protect the 87yr-old matriarch of the extended family who has severe rheumatoid arthritis, is mostly deaf and legally blind but most people in that shape are done for. Shortly thereafter we can remove those with health conditions that are perfectly treatable, but that require regular access to modern medical facilities. (Ex: Someone in need of weekly/monthly dialysis) or people who will die in a very short period of time if deprived of a specific medication (like transplant recipients in need of immunosuppressants for life as an extreme example) Then there's the fraction of those at substantially greater risk of death due to a non-life threatening condition thats still serious enough to diminish their physical capabilities. (Ex: A moderate asthma sufferer cant bike nearly as far as a healthy person, or sprint away from danger as far or fast) Not all the people in this group are automatically going to die, but the playing field which is already grim for someone in peak condition is further stacked against them.

Then there are all the "wrong place/wrong time" people. Perfectly healthy, they had the misfortune to find themselves in the middle of a major metropolitan area when the panic starts. Or those who are working in hospitals/morgues during the beginning of the outbreak...

What I'm getting at is a HUGE % of people would die VERY quickly and for all sorts of reasons only indirectly related to the zombie apocalypse. Once you add in those who are direct immediate casualties the number swells even further. None of those people are going to be around sucking up resources which aren't replaceable.

3) Guns won't last forever. Eventually best-case scenario people will rediscover and pass on the crafts of the bowyer and fletcher. Worst case people will be defending themselves hand to hand. Evasion as a primary lifestyle, use of practiced tactics which heavily maximize the human capacity for reason as an advantage and raw determination to live and keep safe loved ones will be the reason one little outpost of humanity makes it and another goes under. Those who quickly make large-scale provisions to produce ammo and maintain/repair the existing firearms to delay this juncture will have a better chance as a tribe-community than others. The same thing applies to any community whose forethought leads them to successful implementation of a plan which allows them to retain a significant facet of modern technology (like construction of an aqueduct to bring water inside a walled community) Turning into a craft-less, completely nomadic forage-oriented people is IMO just prolonging the inevitable. Any system of living that has attrition as a major weakness favors the undead, the masters of the attrition game.

4) It all depends on rate of decay: Humanity has survived some events that we, the children of the most advanced civilizations ever to exist on Earth cant conceive of. If the undead rot like normal bodies rot, and the means of infection remain only as described in a Romero movie I think it highly likely, if not certain that as a race we'll survive...even if only by dumb luck and the fact that we're scattered to every corner of the globe. Say there's some indigenous people on one of the thousand of islands sorrounding Indonesia. The outbreak occurs in their community of four hundred people and they quickly contain it. They learn quickly to dispose of the dead in the correct manner and never had contact with outsiders anyways. Its likely as a people under those circumstances they'd continue on, even if all the rest of us get eaten.

5) Doing a complete one-eighty from the position I just supported. There will be people who make a go of it as nomads ala Resident Evil: Extinction. Others will try the walled fortifications, still others will try to become an almost exclusively sea-faring people. In our diversity is our strength and the one-dimension-completely-unadaptable zombies weakness. ONE of these ways will work pretty well, so its adherents will survive. Same as any other situation where natural selection is at work. I believe so long as there is air to breathe, water to drink, food to eat and a place to lay a woman down and procreate with her..the human race will somehow survive. There's too damned many of us for SOME of us not to figure out the exactly-right key to fit the lock of survival.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On a totally personal level, here's what I'm doing in the event of zombie apocalypse. I live in Florida and like many people here have a "disaster bag" for use if rapid evacuation is needed. I grab that, my primary firearm, sidearm , all the ammo I can carry and a means to easily access it and I'm gone. I get to a boat and hit one of the islands on the gulf side temporarily to avoid the initial panic-exodus, hopefully gathering a group of allies about me on my way.

We spend the time on the island plotting our next move based on circumstances as they've developed. Thats as far as I've gotten in an "air tight" survival plan. There's just too many variables to do something like a five year plan from a pre-outbreak perspective.

[bassman]

Wouldn't work. Eventually, enough deadheads would pile up in your livingroom to form a ramp right up to your landing. Then, it's lunchtime.


But that's all up to where one lives, how populated it is, etc etc. I live in a pretty rural area, so the stair thing should work just fine.

Besides, even if they start to pile up close to the door they'll never be able to have the leverage they need to break it down.

[sandrock74]

Keeping on the move is the way to go. Stay in the rural areas, pillage for food, water or supplies. Leave a "safehouse" in each area you've passed thru in the event you need a fallback position. I would think small, armed groups are the way to go...think of Dutch's group from the movie "Predator". What were they, like 7 guys? Use bikes to get around, you can easily outpace a hoarde of zombies while riding a bike AND it isn't dependant on gas or makes noise to draw attention to yourselves. It may not look as badass as riding in a tank but its far more sensable.
With groups like this on the move, there could be a network of safe havens thoughout the rural areas. Also, like one of the previous posters said, kill all the zombies you can. Thinning out their numbers won't hurt a thing! It's better for you and your group in the long run. Remember, if at all possible, burn the bodies in pyres so your not left with rampant disease from the rotting corpses! ESPECIALLY around bodies of water!
Those are my ideas. I'm sure the lack of teamwork will prevent something like this from ever happening thou...

[SRP76]

I can agree with most of that, except for the bikes. Nothing beats good ol' Shoeleather Express.

On a bike, you have good straight-line speed, but lateral mobility doesn't exist. If you have to stop quickly, or even turn quickly, you're toast. Break a leg taking a spill, and it's all over.

Especially if you have to cut out through the woods, or something. You can't pedal through all the underbrush, around trees, and over deadfalls with any kind of speed. You'd be faster on foot.

Plus, on foot, you're in control. If you have to shove a shoulder into a zombie to plow him out of your escape route, you can. Try that on a bike, and you can get yanked off it, and eaten.

[DVW5150]

Its a common misconception that stockpiles of useful supplies would quickly run out. According to Wikipedia there is at any point in-country enough retail goods to supply all contractual obligations for 90 days without receiving additional goods. That means somewhere in America, added all up together for every Wal-Mart, Publix, Walgreens etc that you see there's 3 more of them worth of goods at their maximum capacity.

Just how many people are going to survive the first year of such a holocaust?
We can remove the millions with critical handicaps immediately. Yes, there will be exceptions that prove the rule. Somewhere a large family is willing to fight and die to protect the 87yr-old matriarch of the extended family who has severe rheumatoid arthritis, is mostly deaf and legally blind but most people in that shape are done for. Shortly thereafter we can remove those with health conditions that are perfectly treatable, but that require regular access to modern medical facilities. (Ex: Someone in need of weekly/monthly dialysis) or people who will die in a very short period of time if deprived of a specific medication (like transplant recipients in need of immunosuppressants for life as an extreme example) Then there's the fraction of those at substantially greater risk of death due to a non-life threatening condition thats still serious enough to diminish their physical capabilities. (Ex: A moderate asthma sufferer cant bike nearly as far as a healthy person, or sprint away from danger as far or fast) Not all the people in this group are automatically going to die, but the playing field which is already grim for someone in peak condition is further stacked against them.

Then there are all the "wrong place/wrong time" people. Perfectly healthy, they had the misfortune to find themselves in the middle of a major metropolitan area when the panic starts. Or those who are working in hospitals/morgues during the beginning of the outbreak...

What I'm getting at is a HUGE % of people would die VERY quickly and for all sorts of reasons only indirectly related to the zombie apocalypse. Once you add in those who are direct immediate casualties the number swells even further. None of those people are going to be around sucking up resources which aren't replaceable.

Guns won't last forever. Eventually best-case scenario people will rediscover and pass on the crafts of the bowyer and fletcher. Worst case people will be defending themselves hand to hand. Evasion as a primary lifestyle, use of practiced tactics which heavily maximize the human capacity for reason as an advantage and raw determination to live and keep safe loved ones will be the reason one little outpost of humanity makes it and another goes under. Those who quickly make large-scale provisions to produce ammo and maintain/repair the existing firearms to delay this juncture will have a better chance as a tribe-community than others. The same thing applies to any community whose forethought leads them to successful implementation of a plan which allows them to retain a significant facet of modern technology (like construction of an aqueduct to bring water inside a walled community) Turning into a craft-less, completely nomadic forage-oriented people is IMO just prolonging the inevitable. Any system of living that has attrition as a major weakness favors the undead, the masters of the attrition game.

It all depends on rate of decay: Humanity has survived some events that we, the children of the most advanced civilizations ever to exist on Earth cant conceive of. If the undead rot like normal bodies rot, and the means of infection remain only as described in a Romero movie I think it highly likely, if not certain that as a race we'll survive...even if only by dumb luck and the fact that we're scattered to every corner of the globe. Say there's some indigenous people on one of the thousand of islands sorrounding Indonesia. The outbreak occurs in their community of four hundred people and they quickly contain it. They learn quickly to dispose of the dead in the correct manner and never had contact with outsiders anyways. Its likely as a people under those circumstances they'd continue on, even if all the rest of us get eaten.

Doing a complete one-eighty from the position I just supported. There will be people who make a go of it as nomads ala Resident Evil: Extinction. Others will try the walled fortifications, still others will try to become an almost exclusively sea-faring people. In our diversity is our strength and the one-dimension-completely-unadaptable zombies weakness. ONE of these ways will work pretty well, so its adherents will survive. Same as any other situation where natural selection is at work. I believe so long as there is air to breathe, water to drink, food to eat and a place to lay a woman down and procreate with her..the human race will somehow survive. There's too damned many of us for SOME of us not to figure out the exactly-right key to fit the lock of survival.

We spend the time on the island plotting our next move based on circumstances as they've developed. Thats as far as I've gotten in an "air tight" survival plan. There's just too many variables to do something like a five year plan from a pre-outbreak perspective.

Unless you have already read this ...
I cannot find a link to Alomal137 by Lon Miller 1996, Final Diagnosis , but found the entire 'report' by Googling it , Wyld you would enjoy it .Its been linked here more than a few by myself.
I enjoy you theorys about this kind of theoretical-end-of-everthing-we-know scenario.
The horror for attacked disabled persons would be an addition to the hoardes.Do you think that residual memory would make a disabled zombie be able to figure since it cannot walk, recall the use of a wheelchair?
Wheeling down the streets..
Not funny .
I suppose its not possible.
Populated centers a few months after the outbreak, would be deserted of corporial humans.
The girl that worked at Starbucks.
I grocery store clerk.
A librarian.All shambling down Lexington Ave. in NY city.
What I mean is, 4 months after. If the entire infrastructure was decimated.

Cities would have these things walking around . Hopeful that living humans that have survived/adapted, moving in well equiped vehicles.
Zombies would eventualy fall down and lay there dormant?

At Frederick MD Arms range the manager always knows when I am there, hes gonna have lots of spent shells to clean up.

My guess is only 45 % of your situational chances (for survival ) depend on effective firearm use.The rest fending /damaging the heads of 'em at close range with something that doesnt require gas or bullets.

How about driving through a horde? You have a Volvo stationwagon(everyday car).
If there were enough, parts would get stuck up in the wheel wells.
"How about getting and changing the flat for me?"

Where would you draw the line helping someone ?
Its an interesting thought.

[vill666]

I'm scared the outbreak would occur while I'm working..I work at barnes n noble books..big windows...

[Shadowofthedead]

funny thing is that i could survive anywhere in the mid west and i honestly dont think that here in ohio the population of the undead would be to high in the rural area im in... wait come to think of it im screw i would had to the appalachain mountain chain or to kentucky and hold up. have family with guns in kentucky and as far as the mountains i dont know anyone i live on a farm so farmin shiza aint hard for me. fishin and huntin is easy as well. heck i could live onmy own on the run for quite some time... especially if i stuck to the woods i wouldnt be worried about much. always have access to food and water and farm ponds... has anyone thought about farm ponds for food... fish and frogs... gotta love them
:elol:

[Danny]

and snails people, we can allways eat snails;)

[Wyldwraith]

Good points DVW5150,
I wanted to explain the reason I place so much weight on firearms.

The biggest three advantages a zombie has is its infectious nature, unlimited stamina and relentless pursuit of prey. Use of firearms is a relatively easy skill to acquire, the hard part is training someone (or yourself) to retain your ability to shoot accurately in life-or-death situations and other trauma-causing scenarios. (Like seeing a friend being eaten alive while needing to defend yourself. I'm sure everyone here knows how hard that is. Still, as long as the ammo holds out you have a means at hand to eliminate zombies while taking their hand-to-hand oriented advantages away.

I completely agree that overall survival is going to depend on MUCH more than possession or use of firearms. Yet I stand by the assertion that people who start out well-armed and highly proficient with firearms stand a MUCH higher chance of initial survival than those lacking guns for a lot of reasons.

For one, whatever we say, all of us are going to go through an emotionally and psychologically challenging adjustment period in dealing with the redefining of our reality to include walking corpses that went to eat us. During that period the easier to use the method of defense and the further away you can eliminate the undead from the better. Increased distance between a person and a zombie means an increase in how forgiving the situation is of anxiety-caused hesitation, mistakes in weapon use (like forgetting to click the safety off) and others. We'll need as many advantages like that as we can get.

Another thing, the firearm offers us a rate of fire unprecedented before the advent of the truly semi-automatic gun. No other weapon will allow a physically infirm person to potentially destroy six zombies in ten seconds without breaking a sweat. Heavy caliber automatic weapons have practical uses that go beyond simple zombie elimination as well. Multiple SAWs fired in a sustained manner at a horde of ghouls blocking a vital escape route could open a gap by knocking them all over in moments.

Finally, once society collapses zombies aren't the only enemy. Guns are the proven weapon standard for human conflicts. Which walled village will a group of raiders like the ones from DoTD hit, the one with a few guys walking the top of the walls with a few hunting rifles or the ones who've scavenged the nearby army base and set up machine gun nests?

The problem like I said is sooner or later, collect all the used brass thats feasible and re-shell as many rounds as possible the ammo will still run out. Those practices can draw out the length of time the group remains armed though, which is great.

~~~

I completely agree with the previous posters who recommend eliminating zombies whenever the risk in doing so is very much stacked in the humans favor. The more you thin out the less there are in your area to swarm you en masse. The exception being when it would deplete limited ammunition supplies to no real benefit. If you're moving through an area as quickly as you can on your way to somewhere a significant distance away why expend a round on a zombie 100 yards off to the left of the path you intend the take? Wouldn't it be better to save that bullet for the ghoul that suddenly pops up, blocking your path?

All in all I can't say I have what I consider to be anything close to a "fool proof" plan to survive, just some general survival tenets and the mindset to stay aware and watchful for opportunities.

[Danny]

I can agree with most of that, except for the bikes. Nothing beats good ol' Shoeleather Express.

On a bike, you have good straight-line speed, but lateral mobility doesn't exist. If you have to stop quickly, or even turn quickly, you're toast. Break a leg taking a spill, and it's all over.

Especially if you have to cut out through the woods, or something. You can't pedal through all the underbrush, around trees, and over deadfalls with any kind of speed. You'd be faster on foot.

Plus, on foot, you're in control. If you have to shove a shoulder into a zombie to plow him out of your escape route, you can. Try that on a bike, and you can get yanked off it, and eaten.


but if its a very light peddle bike you can lift it off the ground, carry it with ease, adn even use it with centrifugal force as an emergency bludgeon, plus there a lot more manouverbale than you think if you arent pushing it as fast as you can (i did once, hit 45 miles an hour donw a hill, braked and racked my nuts on the handlebars!:eek::dead::skull::barf::(...in that order:lol:)

[Ivarr]

It has always been my belief that to stop in one place will eventually lead to your death. Even if the dead can't get in ... you can't get out either.

After a time the outer walls of your "fortress" might be thick with every shambling corpse for thousands of miles.

Do I agree that such a fort could be made/built to withstand a sustained siege? Yes. With enough time and resources. But eventualy you will run out of some critital item or drug or some other disaster might crop up that has nothing to do with the dead. (too many people trapped together in one place equals all kinds of potential for chaos).

For smaller groups ... your best bet is live on the move. Avoid hot areas like larger cities and towns and your going to have to keep moving to keep finding food and supplies anyway.

Would there be safe places that could be fortified quickly? yes. But without independent water and game/farmland for growing and catching your own food... your done. Its just going to take longer for you to die.

[Shadowofthedead]

drove to work today and when i was crossin a bridge i noticed a little strip island in the center of the river... the area is mostly close knit with very few houses. the river would offer water and fish and the island could be some what of a last defense fall back position seein how the dead couldnt swim. lots of farm land. i would have several establishments like this i really wouldnt leave my local area since i know it to well no sense in runnin to some crap hole deep in the woods when you could fortify several establishments in a 30 mile radius that could sustain me or a group of people.

[bassman]

drove to work today and when i was crossin a bridge i noticed a little strip island in the center of the river... the area is mostly close knit with very few houses. the river would offer water and fish and the island could be some what of a last defense fall back position seein how the dead couldnt swim. lots of farm land. i would have several establishments like this i really wouldnt leave my local area since i know it to well no sense in runnin to some crap hole deep in the woods when you could fortify several establishments in a 30 mile radius that could sustain me or a group of people.

Zombies don't have to know how to swim to get to an island. They don't breathe....so they'll just walk there. Didn't you see Land?:p

[Shadowofthedead]

now alot of factors play into what you say and what i say there was no evidence in any of the movies other than land that the zombies walked across the river under water... im sayin is the current on this river is fairly strong and i highly doubt that every single zombie can walk underwater it seems that was a learned trait that was isolated to that group of zombies. so i wouldnt worry about it much besides i would definently blow the bridge and camoflauge the entrances to the parks near the river.

[SRP76]

now alot of factors play into what you say and what i say there was no evidence in any of the movies other than land that the zombies walked across the river under water... im sayin is the current on this river is fairly strong and i highly doubt that every single zombie can walk underwater it seems that was a learned trait that was isolated to that group of zombies. so i wouldnt worry about it much besides i would definently blow the bridge and camoflauge the entrances to the parks near the river.

They don't have to swim or walk in a huge group.

One deadhead blunders into the drink ten miles upriver....all of a sudden, he's chewing on your ankle. Any zombie that gets into the water, can wash up on your island without warning. Especially dangerous if you plan on fishing.

And, back to the "fortress" plan:

There's another huge flaw in trying to stay in one spot: you can't grow bullets.

Regardless of food, water, and whatnot, you will eventually have to pop heads. You need a steady, ever-renewing supply of ammunition.

[AcesandEights]

I think that bodies of water have a merit as obstacles that can't be ignored. Yes, there are holes in reliance on water as a foolprof solution, but certainly it has the ability to help insulate in anywhere from a dramatic fashion to a simple time-buying capacity.

[Danny]

depends what kind though, if its still the zombies could make it through, but if its a rushing bodie of water like a river or stream they will lose there footing and be washed away.

[Wyldwraith]

Not a fan of water-as-wall idea,
Moats now, have potential to slow a rush and give you time to thin the ranks to manageable levels. I read a story one time where these guys dug a huge ass trench around their compound, lured the zombies close until they fell in then dropped these huge boulders they had attached to chains on the mass of zombies below, pulping them. Then they'd winch the rocks back to the ready position and wait until the next time they had enough in the trench. Every so often they'd do a body-burn to keep the corpses from piling too high.

Water makes a nice obstacle but alone it isn't wall enough for me to want to base a have around it. The exception being an island far out to sea. Sure, once in a great while a zombie bloated with gases might wash up, so what? Compared to anywhere else it'd be a lower rate of zombie encounters by far.

As I've been reading this thread I've see-sawed back and forth between being in the self-sufficient-fort camp and the nomadic tribe school of thought. Both have great advantages, I think I'm just personally biased against the nomad idea. I have a hard time imagining sleeping in the great outdoors in a zombie infested world, even if there were several people on watch working shifts. One ****-up and I wake to the sensation of a zombie that crawled in on its belly chewing on my face. No thanks.

I think the best strategy would be a mix of the two. Moving when things no longer seemed tenable onto the next halfway decent place you could fortify temporarily, always keeping people on watch to sound the evacuation if its looking like the place is going to get so mobbed escape would be impossible.

Failing that, the deserted island with fruit trees and a fresh water spring looks like a great idea. Assuming ten million sailors far more experienced than I havent camped all the places that fit that description.

[Danny]

^ and thats when the polar bears and black gas creatures start showing up.:lol:

[Dommm]

now alot of factors play into what you say and what i say there was no evidence in any of the movies other than land that the zombies walked across the river under water... im sayin is the current on this river is fairly strong and i highly doubt that every single zombie can walk underwater it seems that was a learned trait that was isolated to that group of zombies. so i wouldnt worry about it much besides i would definently blow the bridge and camoflauge the entrances to the parks near the river.

Zombie flesheaters, Zombie lake, etc...

[bassman]

Zombie flesheaters, Zombie lake, etc...

:lol:

I'm glad you knew that....i've never seen those flicks...

[Skippy911sc]

I think if you watch all of the movies over again, we can see that the zombies or undead are not what brings humankind down. We do it to ourselves! Safe location would not be the problem, what would be the problem is trying to cope with each other for an extended period of time. In Night they fought against each other rather than forming a bond and fighting together. In Dawn the biker gang broke in and destroyed the place causing the mayhem, think about if the chopper crew just stayed up in their hideout till it was over, then started back at square one again. In Day the same thing the crazy doctor and the insane army soldiers drove everyone against each other. Look at Land, the story of the Haves and the Have nots. If people worked in more of a Marxist way then perhaps they could have lived more peacefully longer. I'm sure Diary might make the same path with the film students bickering and causing chaos. We are our own worst enemy!

[bassman]

I think if you watch all of the movies over again, we can see that the zombies or undead are not what brings humankind down. We do it to ourselves! Safe location would not be the problem, what would be the problem is trying to cope with each other for an extended period of time. In Night they fought against each other rather than forming a bond and fighting together. In Dawn the biker gang broke in and destroyed the place causing the mayhem, think about if the chopper crew just stayed up in their hideout till it was over, then started back at square one again. In Day the same thing the crazy doctor and the insane army soldiers drove everyone against each other. Look at Land, the story of the Haves and the Have nots. If people worked in more of a Marxist way then perhaps they could have lived more peacefully longer. I'm sure Diary might make the same path with the film students bickering and causing chaos. We are our own worst enemy!

You're preaching to choir here, buddy.;) That's what all of Romero's films are about.

[SRP76]

None of that really matters.

If they had got along, the zombies still would have broken the boarded-up windows and doors, and entered the farmhouse.

If they had got along, Big Daddy and his goons would still have crossed the river.

If they had stayed in their upstairs room, they still would have had to leave. Retaking the mall without Roger would have been nearly impossible.

In the end, the "bickering humans" would have been just fine, if it weren't for the rotting, hungry corpses beating on the door.

Here's another common thread in all of them:

The living are a bunch of defensive-minded people. Every movie revolves around the "stronghold" idea. Get behind a locked door, cower and cry, and hope the zombies eventually "just go away".

Not one of these groups can be seen taking the "exterminate every ghoul I see" mindset. They all seem to ignore the problem, never realizing that the ghouls will NEVER "go away", unless they, themselves, take action.

[Yojimbo]

Not one of these groups can be seen taking the "exterminate every ghoul I see" mindset. They all seem to ignore the problem, never realizing that the ghouls will NEVER "go away", unless they, themselves, take action.

The "exterminate every ghoul I see method" is clearly the best way to go, however, this is realistically viable only if this method is adopted from the onset of the emergency. If this method is not employed immediately and the ghouls are allowed to find new victims and those victims new victims, exponentially pyramiding outward, then soon the ghoul numbers will reach critical mass at which point it no longer becomes feasable to simply kill each ghoul that you see and you would have to resort to a defensive plan rather than an offensive approach. I have not worked out the numbers, but it would be interesting to calculate how long it would take before the "kill all ghouls" method would become useless.

Certainly, if we are talking about the Romero universe, the kill all ghouls option is already, by definition, no longer viable and therefore other options would have to be explored.

EDIT: I do take my last statement back since, with hindsight, it occurred to me that NOLD had the posse doing the "Kill All Zombies" method, but of course, Dawn follows so we can kind of assume that 1) either they gave up, or 2) the rate of new ghouls rising exceeded the rate at which they were being capped.

[AcesandEights]

EDIT: I do take my last statement back since, with hindsight, it occurred to me that NOLD had the posse doing the "Kill All Zombies" method, but of course, Dawn follows so we can kind of assume that 1) either they gave up, or 2) the rate of new ghouls rising exceeded the rate at which they were being capped.

No! Don't give up killing them. We must deal with them clinically and without emotion, disposing of the bodies properly at the outset.

Of course, getting people to really do that instead of running for the hills probably isn't going to work :lol:

Me? I'll be running with bodies of water in between me and the dead...You guys may look over your shoulders and see a horde of undead a 100 yards back...I'lll see them 100 yards back with a 60 yard wide river between us.

[Yojimbo]

YOu know, it just occured to me. During the Los Angeles riots, when many stores in the barrios were being looted and torched, the Los Angeles Police Department basically had given up and for all intents and purposes refused to do anything to protect stores from being looted (maybe to teach everyone in the city a lesson about how important the cops are and how offended they were that anyone would have the gall to side with Rodney King and be against their side of the issue) So in my old neighborhood of Echo Park the local streetgang (also named "Echo Park") which consists primarily of local teenage kids, banded together and formed an armed security posse and patroled the local shopping area of the neighborhood which consists of a number of retail stores, grocery and supermarkets, etc, a pretty good blend of mom-n-pops and commerical chains. They basically took their lowriders and bikes out and stopped the neighborhood from being looted. Pretty much all the areas around Echo Park were looted, but they managed to keep their area secure.

So, it occurs to me that in the event of the dead rising, maybe areas where there are lots of street gang activity would become the most "zombie free" areas of the city.

Come to think of it, in most of the barrios, even non-gang members are armed to some degree. So the "Shoot Every Ghoul" method would probably work out. Gangsters aren't going to give up their hood to anyone, least of all a bunch of stenches.

[SRP76]

So, it occurs to me that in the event of the dead rising, maybe areas where there are lots of street gang activity would become the most "zombie free" areas of the city.

Come to think of it, in most of the barrios, even non-gang members are armed to some degree. So the "Shoot Every Ghoul" method would probably work out. Gangsters aren't going to give up their hood to anyone, least of all a bunch of stenches.


There's a slight problem with that (I know, I'm just full of good news, right?:lol:):

Looters are people. A gaggle of people with guns will deter them. They don't want to be shot...they find someplace else to go riot.

Deadheads are not deterred by anything. They will not see the guns, and head somewhere else. They will simply swarm.

Which brings us to the second problem:

These aren't people. A bunch of kids opening fire are: #1. going to miss the broad side of a barn, mostly. Emptying a whole clip to get one or two shots to land on what they're actually trying to hit, and #2. even when they hit, it will mostly be body shots. These will have no effect.

They won't even begin to smarten up to the situation until someone gets a lucky headshot. Even then, it will likely take several, before they "put 2 and 2 together".

By then, it's too late.

The only hope would be if at least one of the gangbangers happens to be a Romero fan, and can spread the word really fast about what to do. That is possible.

[jim102016]

None of that really matters.

If they had got along, the zombies still would have broken the boarded-up windows and doors, and entered the farmhouse.

If they had got along, Big Daddy and his goons would still have crossed the river.

If they had stayed in their upstairs room, they still would have had to leave. Retaking the mall without Roger would have been nearly impossible.

In the end, the "bickering humans" would have been just fine, if it weren't for the rotting, hungry corpses beating on the door.

Here's another common thread in all of them:

The living are a bunch of defensive-minded people. Every movie revolves around the "stronghold" idea. Get behind a locked door, cower and cry, and hope the zombies eventually "just go away".

Not one of these groups can be seen taking the "exterminate every ghoul I see" mindset. They all seem to ignore the problem, never realizing that the ghouls will NEVER "go away", unless they, themselves, take action.

Retaking the mall in Dawn even with Roger would have been impossible. Unless they went out in the parking lot and lowered them out from every nook and cranny in now wide-open mall. Even then, how would they secure the loading bay door?

Rather than people being 'defensive minded', they're functioning under a self-preservation mode with little regard for others or the big picture.

[SRP76]

You know, I've noticed that everyone here has put out methods to deal with "Romero-Type" zombies.

Now, how about dealing with "Runners"?

And, even worse, those Return-Type freaks?

Runners:
Not as bad as you might expect. The key is that the only difference between them and Romero-type dead, is that they are faster. The same rules apply: burn them, they croak. Destroy the brain, they croak. They have to see you or hear you to know you're around. No intelligence to speak of; just instinctive, straight-ahead pursuit of food.

This is a situation where the "fortress" idea actually is the only real way to go. Since these jokers are fast (not to mention tireless), you can't outdistance them. The only chance you have, is to find a "secure" (yeah, right) location, and try to take out as many as you can, over time.

Return-Type:
Game over. You die.

The only thing I can possibly come up with, is that you need large-caliber weapons. We're talking .50-cal, here. You have to be able to blast a body apart with every single shot.

You have two targets:

1.The waist. Yup, the waist. Blow their legs off. Regardless of anything else, if you take away their legs, you reduce them to shambler-speed. This is your first priority, since they will be moving full-on when you take your first aim. Go for the larger target.

2. The head. Take this after you slow them up, because you have no chance in hell of nailing one on the run (especially if they are in a group).

This won't kill them, but it will "de-fang" them. Disintegrate the head, and they no longer have a mouth. No mouth = no way to eat your brain.

......that's about all I can come up with, at the moment.

[UndeadJD]

Great thread!!!! I would definitely stay away from malls, morgues, army bases and big cities.....I am thinking either seek refuge in the wild and build a tree house (would be a problem in the brushland of south texas) or living as a nomad and driving around in a modified zombie chopping tractor....until I run out of gas. Actually, I wonder how our government (U.S.) or any government for that matter ...would respond to a zombie rampage......I am thinking that the president would notify the public but probably from the underground bunker that he is already in. Would they offer the public refuge in those underground bunkers? Would it even be the right decision to be "trapped" inside one of the bunkers? But, we would be protected by a large military force. I can already picture average Joe fighting zombies side-by-side with condelisa rice and president bush.

[Skippy911sc]

One solution, in my mind, would be for the Govts to release encephalitis. I think this illness causes an enlargement of the brain and perhaps death to the infected. Think Heinlein's puppet masters. Also my recollection of Return is somewhat vague, what is the difference in those zombies and the others...any insight?

[Yojimbo]

There's a slight problem with that (I know, I'm just full of good news, right?:lol:):

Looters are people. A gaggle of people with guns will deter them. They don't want to be shot...they find someplace else to go riot.

Deadheads are not deterred by anything. They will not see the guns, and head somewhere else. They will simply swarm.

Which brings us to the second problem:

These aren't people. A bunch of kids opening fire are: #1. going to miss the broad side of a barn, mostly. Emptying a whole clip to get one or two shots to land on what they're actually trying to hit, and #2. even when they hit, it will mostly be body shots. These will have no effect.

They won't even begin to smarten up to the situation until someone gets a lucky headshot. Even then, it will likely take several, before they "put 2 and 2 together".

By then, it's too late.

The only hope would be if at least one of the gangbangers happens to be a Romero fan, and can spread the word really fast about what to do. That is possible.

This is very true and you make a good point. Laymen and hoodrats are notoriously bad shots to begin with, hence you have everyone but the intended target getting hit in a shooting. Most layfolk just buy their weapons and set them aside without really learning how to hit a target.

I have often thought that a good way of eliminating collateral damage with regard to drivebys and innocent bystanders getting killed would be for the NRA or the Millitary to provide free instruction to gangbangers on proper gun usage and safety so that they would have the skills to hit their intended targets. Of course, this would never happen.

In retrospect, the fact that so many untrained folks are armed out there might cause more deaths due to accidents which in turn could increase the zombie count.

[SRP76]

Also my recollection of Return is somewhat vague, what is the difference in those zombies and the others...any insight?

The Return zombies are bad, BAD news:

1. They are "runners".
2. Destroying the brain does not affect them. In fact, nothing does. They are unkillable.
3. They can smell your freakin' brain! They don't have to see or hear you; they can track you by scent.
4. They can speak, and communicate with each other.
5. They have normal thought, like the living. They can actually outplan and outsmart you.

In every way, they are far worse than Romero-type dead.

[wyvern1096]

I'd fortress up (probably with the rest of our neighboorhood--close community) for the first month or two. Just bought a fixer upper house and I have a ton (literally) of building materials and tools. Making it secure is not a problem as long as food could be secured early on.

After the initial chaos has died down (assuming the zombies won) we'd (as a group) head for the hinterlands. Preferably some place that could support agriculture.

[Yojimbo]

I'd fortress up (probably with the rest of our neighboorhood--close community) for the first month or two. Just bought a fixer upper house and I have a ton (literally) of building materials and tools. Making it secure is not a problem as long as food could be secured early on.

After the initial chaos has died down (assuming the zombies won) we'd (as a group) head for the hinterlands. Preferably some place that could support agriculture.

Hey, like the zombie cats. Just wanted to comment on that.

[Danny]

^ ditto, theres a good disney movie in that idea:lol:

[Deadman_Deluxe]

Here is something i prepared earlier ;) : http://www.livejournal.com/users/alpha_dog

[Chakobsa]

If the authorities failed to contain the initial outbreaks larger towns and cities would quickly become the focus of the kind of Mega swarms that Brooks envisions in his second book. I think that by this point the decision would be taken to deploy and use tactical nuclear weapons.
I can imagine a scenario in which most i.e around 90/95% of the population is wiped out or re-animated, the remaining survivors would probably regress to the kind of canibalistic tribalism envisioned by Cormac McCarthy in "The Road".
If any enclave survived the initial holocaust with some notion of "civillised conduct" intact I think that they would have to be well founded and secure enough to provide two vital commodities; babies and leisure time. the reasons for the first are obvious the second is vital if those children are to have a future in which centuries of learning and knowledge are not squandered, so you need to be able to do more than simply survive if you don't want humanity to simply fizzle out.

[Shadowofthedead]

never thought to include the other types of zombies but werent we stickin to romero only... any who mobile caravan of survivors in a 20 mile radius of a central location. makin a small secure community(ies) out of these pockets of land and makin them defensable o that no threat livin or dead could take it away... yet this would take some time.

[CornishCorpse]

Thanks Alphadog for the hours of z related fun, youre writing encapulates every moment plus the images look like they would be simple to do but they always manage to catch something eerie. Too close to home for it to be comfortable so thanks.

As Ive said in other threads like this I live not far from a farming shop full of supplies and weapons ( axes, hunting rifles, crossbows ) and two supermarkets. The downside to this is I dont live very far from a funereal parlour but you need to roll with the punches I suppose.

Id take who I could with me and since I live in a part of the country with alot of good terrain and forests then things are made slightly easier. Ive discussed this with friends over many a beer and a cigarette and weve found a small enclosure.

Essentially its sealed off from the public by some very tall barbed wire fences, the place is a water purification plant and has a fair few structures within it but never any personnel. The fence is climable and strong enough to hold a good amount of weight against it plus the whole thing is surrounded by a forest so its hard to see. The water purification plant which draws water from a lake with fish and plenty of birds on it about five minutes if that from the sealed off compound. So theres my plan to live out there before eventually trying to conquer whatever is left of society. Some tents and some sort of hydro power and weve got electricity and fresh water.

Id say nobody considered runners instead of Romero zombies for the fact that they are too threatening. Romero zombies you can think and outwit if you need to jus outclimb them and pick youre shots and drop em. With runners youre overwhelmed, 28 days and weeks proved this. If they were romero zombies you could fall back pick em off and move back. Leapfrogging till theyre gone or youre out of ammo or at a safe enclosure. With runners youd maybe get three before you hit the ground.

The return zombies? bah..Never a fan of the movies, even in this genre I like a little realism. The talking immortal zombies? Bah screw that. Romero for me.

[Slain]

The inevitable destruction that's sure to occur in a zombie outbreak would release tons and tons highly toxic chemical into the environment. A firestorm is also a strong possibility in a city without running water and fire departments to fight the fires. IMHO anyone who remains in an urban area will most likely perish.