Kids grow up so fast these days...

[MissJacksonCA]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21647152/?GT1=10547

I think it was wrong for the school to refuse to allow an anti-abortion club but similarly ... a case could be made for a school to allow an anti-teen pregnancy club I mean... they run along the same lines ... but I also think the anti-abortion club should also take a strong stance on safe sex and not just abstainance seeing as no-sex teachings typically produce more pregnancies by not teaching children about have sex safely like ooooh they're going to have it if they know they can do it safely... that's about as genious as saying kids and adults will wear helmets whenever they ride a motorcycle (adults) or bikes (children and adults) if they know they can do it safely. Please...

Should schools allow all clubs proposed to them regardless of its place in a school cirriculum?

[SymphonicX]

I always find funny that people who are anti abortion are the people who are least likely to ever have one - so why is it their problem? I bet they're also the least likely to take a disadvantaged kid and bring him or her up as their own.

Noses in others business really gets me.

I also firmly believe that if they made abortion illegal, women would go back to medieval days of getting coathangers shoved up them...with bottle of gin in hand, not a good look for a contemporary and modern society.

[MissJacksonCA]

Well the thing is I dont think that if you take abortion off the table people are any more likely to have sex safely or any more likely to stop having pre-marital sex. And I find the thing that most pro-lifers share is a belief that pre-marital sex is wrong and shouldn't happen. Of course typically these are also those who get married at a younger age and then begin sprouting children from their loins almost immediately. As if a marriage license and ceremony are an excuse to have sex without having God shun you or something.

While I doubt most American women would begin to shove wire hangers up their hoo has I do believe that an underground ring of alleged abortionists will pop up and of course how much will that suck? I figure women would just go to Canada or if they're cheap head to Mexico.

What I think is most atrocious about pro-lifers is that the choice is at least theirs whether to have one or not. Who says they should get to choose for the rest of us what choices we should be able to get?

I think the goal of pro-lifers and anti-abortionists is to try to get people to abstain from sex and its an archaic ideology to stick to in this day and age. But you make a good point... those who are so pro-life are hardly the ones who adopt all the children of the unwilling or unable to be mothers. And that's a damn shame to me as a pro-choicer who never plans to have children of my own but to adopt. There's so many children who deserve to have parents and dont.

[Publius]

I always find funny that people who are anti abortion are the people who are least likely to ever have one - so why is it their problem?

How is that funny? It is generally true that people who oppose something most strongly are the people least likely to do that thing. People who favor restrictions on smoking are less likely to be smokers, and people who favor harsh penalties for rape are probably less likely to be rapists.


What I think is most atrocious about pro-lifers is that the choice is at least theirs whether to have one or not. Who says they should get to choose for the rest of us what choices we should be able to get?

Isn't that true of all laws? You've gotta distinguish the case for pro-choice abortion laws from the case for absolute anarchy. Unless, of course, you favor absolute anarchy, with no laws to tell anyone there's any choice they can't make.

[SymphonicX]

Totally....but to be honest its probably a good thing that these people aren't poisoning other minds...

I hate conservatism to be honest, it really bugs me that people can live their lives like that....


How is that funny? It is generally true that people who oppose something most strongly are the people least likely to do that thing. People who favor restrictions on smoking are less likely to be smokers, and people who favor harsh penalties for rape are probably less likely to be rapists.



Isn't that true of all laws? You've gotta distinguish the case for pro-choice abortion laws from the case for absolute anarchy. Unless, of course, you favor absolute anarchy, with no laws to tell anyone there's any choice they can't make.

When i say I find something funny, the word funny translates to "peculiar"

However to acquaint the choice to have a baby formed of r@pe or 1ncest (for example), against that of an actual r@pist is a bit bizarre. I mean we all have a sense of morality, don't we? At least, the level headed amongst us do...anyway you may find a lack of truth in that, people who are likely to r@pe may indeed profess to believe in harsh penalties to smokescreen their own p3rversions....

I don't get what you're saying about absolute anarchy...it doesn't go as deep as that...I mean of course regulations and ethics need to be in place in any situation like this, but to remove the choice is compeltely unethical and illogical - but that's the whole basis of most right-wing conservatives and their f**ked up views.





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[darth los]

I always find funny that people who are anti abortion are the people who are least likely to ever have one - so why is it their problem? I bet they're also the least likely to take a disadvantaged kid and bring him or her up as their own.


If you find that funny then this is sure to leave you in stitches. If you look at the statistics, of the people who are anti-abortion and spout all this stuff about the sanctity of life the majority of them are pro death penalty. :confused:




How is that funny? It is generally true that people who oppose something most strongly are the people least likely to do that thing. People who favor restrictions on smoking are less likely to be smokers, and people who favor harsh penalties for rape are probably less likely to be rapists.



Isn't that true of all laws? You've gotta distinguish the case for pro-choice abortion laws from the case for absolute anarchy. Unless, of course, you favor absolute anarchy, with no laws to tell anyone there's any choice they can't make.


I fell safe in saying that aynsley would favor a dictatorship with her as our glorious leader. Go ahead mj, tell me i'm wrong. :p

[MissJacksonCA]

Meh i'd love to be leader since i'm not much of a follower man... but I think its riddick for Publius to equate people who are pro anti smoking laws as being those who dont smoke with people who are anti-abortion and those often being people less likely to adopt all the children spared by a parent who refused to abort. But you knew i'd call apples and oranges didn't you?

You dont choose to get pregnant and then ask for an abortion. There's so many ways to get knocked up. Rape. Incest. Or an ahole who says 'yeah babe of course i'm wearing a condom' and then my personal favorite... school systems who dont teach kids safe sex. Then there's a sect of the people who have sex safely and still end up pregnant. The obvious response being uh dont have sex and you wont get pregnant. And that's what they want all people to do. Its unrealistic and even still by forced sex you can still end up pregnant and even with your husband practicing safely you could end up fertilized. Its a damn shame.

And then you have smokers... a group who all choose to pollute themselves and those around them. You dont really get forced to smoke but innocents around you are forced to breathe it in. An abortion is a two person one fetus deal that affects no one on the outside of the doctors office. Why should smokers have privilege over those who dont and get to smoke in restaurants and ruin the meals and happy hours of everyone else because they succumbed to peer pressure or a bad family habit? Why should my beach be littered with cigarette butts of smokers because they deserve to smoke anywhere they want? Smoking is a privilege... but they dont have the right to do it everywhere. Similarly abortion is a privilege and you can't get one just anywhere.

[Yojimbo]

And then you have smokers... a group who all choose to pollute themselves and those around them. You dont really get forced to smoke but innocents around you are forced to breathe it in. An abortion is a two person one fetus deal that affects no one on the outside of the doctors office. Why should smokers have privilege over those who dont and get to smoke in restaurants and ruin the meals and happy hours of everyone else because they succumbed to peer pressure or a bad family habit? Why should my beach be littered with cigarette butts of smokers because they deserve to smoke anywhere they want? Smoking is a privilege... but they dont have the right to do it everywhere. Similarly abortion is a privilege and you can't get one just anywhere.

As a smoker, I do agree that smoking is a privilege, and that part of maintaining our access to that privilege is to smoke responsibly, as in not smoking around people in restaurants or public places, or litter the beaches or the streets with butts. I do see what you are saying in how you are equating it to abortions.

That being said, I do wonder why in Japan where the society is more accepting of smokers (eg. smoking is restauraunts and public places is acceptable) that they have a lower rate of "smoking related" cancer and other "smoking related" afflictions. I mean, common sense would dictate that if there are more smokers lighting up everywhere then this would mean that more people are exposed to "evil" second hand smoke, which I have heard -- unbelievably -- is worse for the exposed people than it is for the actual smoker.

Could it be that these afflictions have more to do with diet and exercise than it has to do with exposure to smoke, either directly or indirectly? Off topic, to be sure, so forgive me for the digression.

As a smoker, I am senstitive to the way people perceive smokers, and I do not wish to offend anyone, let alone kill them (or at least have them think I am killing them) by my second hand smoke. But I must say that a lot of the propaganda that the anti-smoking movement utilizes reminds me on some strange way of the anti-abortionist, PETA type of rhetoric. I am not defending offensive smokers, mind you, or even saying that smoking is good (which I realize I would be better off quitting) just making an observation.

[MissJacksonCA]

While I'm no cardiologist and similarly no tobacco company executive I have no idea what's in their cigarettes. Judging from their yen for American goods I should imagine that they smoke our cigarettes but hey... more Canucks smoke their own much more potent brands than buy American so they may prefer Japanese ciggies and perhaps that plays a part in it. I think my biggest issue/pet peeve about smokers is the ones who litter the Earth with their butts and just the smell of it and then once they've smoked. Its simply nauseating. I think I should carry some gaudy cheap perfume and just spray it all around me whenever I come across a smoker and if they complain fuggem... you're making ME smell I should have the same privilege.

I enjoy 'the truth' commercials and whudafuxup... I take it with a grain of salt I'm cool like that but being the spawn of a doctor I'm more than a little aware of the health dangers of many things including smoking. I've even had a friend who whilst in his 50s died from heart disease related to smoking so it really hurts me. It hurts me most that he quit smoking shortly before dying as well. I dont think people know enough about smoking to be Frank with you because they're still doing it for some unGodly reason. But hey its what people do. I for instance... eat red meat. Its my choice. Its relatively bad for you (or so 'they' say) ... but ... I still eat it... and as rare as applicable laws will permit. And occasionally I try my hand at wines... even evil red wine with tannons. Everything has a downside except for my ass... but its important to treat your body like a temple. For people to knowingly sink a ton of change into buying ciggies and paying for the obscene health care costs to offset the smoking or to heal you after you get all ****ertized from the smoking... or what-have-you... is insane. If you want to die then do it in one fell swoop because to me... smoking is like suicide... you're killing yourself one puff at a time but where suicide typically kills one person you're taking those around you down with you because odds are they're some how some way exposed to it. Not to mention seeing you suffer and die will kill them in a way too...

Sorry about that extended sentence/bitch fest...

I digress... what's most fascinating about smokers to me is how they dont oft do it around their kids... well why not? If you think its okay to smoke and its not hurting anyone then get your kids hooked to. Make it a family time to-do past time.

Personally I think public school is a great launch pad for an anti-abortion or anti-smoking or anti-nra or pro any of those clubs. Views and feelings on issues change with age. But with more clubs contemplating more issues and backing their beliefs I find hope that there are kids who will make a change in the future. Whether it will better my homeland or not is moot. Just them interested enough in being in a club makes me giddy because most kids seem dimly lit. I applaud this young lady for her efforts even if I think she's wrong.

[Yojimbo]

I digress... what's most fascinating about smokers to me is how they dont oft do it around their kids... well why not? If you think its okay to smoke and its not hurting anyone then get your kids hooked to. Make it a family time to-do past time.



I have no children yet, but will make serious attempts to quit (whether I want to or not) as soon as my wife becomes pregnant. If I fail to quit, I have decided that I would never smoke around my pregnant wife or my children. Just because I enjoy smoking does not mean that I am blind to the fact that it is not the healthiest thing - or most cost effective way to spend your time. I would rather that children not be exposed to either second hand smoke or even see people smoking since smoke in general -- second hand or direct -- is certainly not good for your health and the more they see their father or mother smoking the more normal it might seem to them.

Not all of us smokers hate smoking. Along those lines, not all of us who enjoy smoking are monsters who want to get everyone around us sick or also hooked on nicotine. My right to smoke ends where your lungs begin.

But along these lines, I do understand that there are people out there that freak out just because I might smell like cigarette smoke. This is to say that I will be outside, not near any buildings or people, enjoying my cigarette and then 10 minutes after I have smoked, someone might detect the smell of cigarettes on me and freak out as if I have blown smoke directly up thier ass. Now, I realize that this scent of smoke is not the most pleasant thing in the world, but it is not the worse thing either, and certainly not more prominent that those folks who go around exuding perfume or aftershave not all of which is pleasant to everyone else. The scent of smoke on my person certainly isn't a health risk any more than the scent of someone's deodorant. So I think a little tolerance is in order all around. Freaking out just because you simply smell smoke on me is taking it a little too far, though you have every right not to like it and you have every right not to want to inhale second hand smoke.