Zombie changes in Romero movies

[millsaps05]

I was wondering what you guys thought of the changes in Zombies from NOTLD to Dawn. In NOTLD, the Zombies are relatively fast, and there is anectodal evidence from the characters stories of Zombies basically running. Furthermore the Zombies seem quite adept at using tools. Case in point, the very first Zombie in NOTLD uses a brick to break into the car where Barbra is "hiding".
However, in Dawn the Zombies seem much slower, and seem to have a lesser ability to use tools in a useful manner. I was wondering what you guys thought about this.

Also (I'm sure this has been discussed many times) which do you think are scarrier: the running Zombies of Dawn 2004 or the slower moving Zombies of the original Dawn.

I think that the fast moving Zombies of Dawn2004 have more of an "Oh ****!!" factor, but the slow moving Zombies of the original are much more scary. The idea that they are dumb and slow, but will eventually win makes them very, very creepy to me.

[SymphonicX]

I was wondering what you guys thought of the changes in Zombies from NOTLD to Dawn. In NOTLD, the Zombies are relatively fast, and there is anectodal evidence from the characters stories of Zombies basically running. Furthermore the Zombies seem quite adept at using tools. Case in point, the very first Zombie in NOTLD uses a brick to break into the car where Barbra is "hiding".
However, in Dawn the Zombies seem much slower, and seem to have a lesser ability to use tools in a useful manner. I was wondering what you guys thought about this.

Also (I'm sure this has been discussed many times) which do you think are scarrier: the running Zombies of Dawn 2004 or the slower moving Zombies of the original Dawn.

I think that the fast moving Zombies of Dawn2004 have more of an "Oh ****!!" factor, but the slow moving Zombies of the original are much more scary. The idea that they are dumb and slow, but will eventually win makes them very, very creepy to me.

In Dawn 78 a zombie breaks the glass to Roger's truck with a wrernch type thing which is exactly what happens in NOTLD but with a brick...
They are faster, definitely....

What gets me though, is that the zombies are relatively fast in Night, slow as hell in Dawn, then back to relatively agile and fast in Day - case in point when Steele hooks the fireman zombie on the neck ("nice hat, ass hole") and puts it in the pen, it starts bashing and kicking the crap out of the pen...very fast stuff there....note also how quickly Bub approaches Sarah from behind.

Slower moving zombies are definitely scarier - I theorise it like this....set the scene, a character is at the end of an alleyway - there's a brick wall and no escape route....slow zombies trundling down the alley towards this character, getting closer and closer til the person just curls up in a ball in fear - and they slowly get nearer...then as they're on top of that person they tear them apart....

Or...

same person in same alley, zombies chase person down alley, before they even reach the end they've totally covered with the undead who've already ripped them apart....no tension there, nothing really interesting...the inevitability of death is a LOT scarier than the death - so I wanna see slow slow slow....herald the terror, revel in it, and accept it before they die...not just WHAM. BAM ,DEAD...

[bassman]

As far as using tools.....I would say they do that quite a bit in Dawn. Hell....there's even that dude on the news saying something to the affect of "There have been reports of these creatures using tools. But even these are the most basic - the use of tools as bludgeons and so forth. I might point out that even animals have been known to adopt the use of tools in this way."

As for what speed I prefer my dead to be moving....I definitely like the shamblers more. As for the sprinters, they're just as you said....an "OH ****!" adrenaline rush, but no time for real fear.

Although slow, the shamblers would carry more of a sense of impending doom if you were a character in the movie. Through the eyes of an audience(me, at least), the shamblers themselves aren't really THAT scary because they're just "pure motorized instinct" and what always screws it up for the humans("protagonists":rolleyes:) is their inability to get along, work together, and straighten the sh*t out. The only thing that makes the shamblers scary in the sense of "OH ****!" is that they eat our flesh because of instinct. Other than that....it's our fault they get to us.

[millsaps05]

Yes the use tools is both movies, but in Dawn it seems like it is more of an incidental occurance (the Zombie already had the tool in its hand). However in that first scene in NOTLD, the Zombie realizes it can't break the window with its hand an actively looks for something else to use. It very quickly identifies the brick as a proper tool and uses right away. I just thought it was interesting how the Zombies seemed smarter and faster in NOTLD, then dumber and slower in Dawn and then smarter and faster again in Day.

[bassman]

Yes the use tools is both movies, but in Dawn it seems like it is more of an incidental occurance (the Zombie already had the tool in its hand). However in that first scene in NOTLD, the Zombie realizes it can't break the window with its hand an actively looks for something else to use. It very quickly identifies the brick as a proper tool and uses right away. I just thought it was interesting how the Zombies seemed smarter and faster in NOTLD, then dumber and slower in Dawn and then smarter and faster again in Day.

There's a zombie in Dawn that recognizes the gun and takes it. Then later, he sees that Peter has a better gun and decides to switch. Seems like I remember a zombie dragging one of those models that showcase the clothes in stores. That could've been used to break something.

I agree with you that the cemetery zoombie in Night is faster, but the dead use weapons in all of Romero's films.

[clanglee]

Yes the use tools is both movies, but in Dawn it seems like it is more of an incidental occurance (the Zombie already had the tool in its hand). However in that first scene in NOTLD, the Zombie realizes it can't break the window with its hand an actively looks for something else to use. It very quickly identifies the brick as a proper tool and uses right away. I just thought it was interesting how the Zombies seemed smarter and faster in NOTLD, then dumber and slower in Dawn and then smarter and faster again in Day.

As I recall, the zombie bends down and picks up the crowbar from the ground.

[acealive1]

its cuz dawn was set in pennsylvania.....in the WINTER! no wonder they move slower :lol::lol:

[Mutineer]

I think the slow zombies have a creep factor that the running ones do not, but the running ones are definatley scarier. I mean, what the **** ? We can't even run from the door to the car without getting slammed.

Nothing really scary about a zombie you can walk up to a bitch slap.

[Doc]

I personally though the reason they were faster and intelligent in Night was because Romero didn't have his zombie rules set in stone?

[SRP76]

I personally though the reason they were faster and intelligent in Night was because Romero didn't have his zombie rules set in stone?

That's certainly the real-life reason.

But I have no problem with the differences. If you look at the dead in Night, they vary greatly within the same movie. Many of them are no different from the ones in Dawn.

For example, once the sun goes down and they start looking at the dead through the windows, all of them seem to be shambling around very slowly. They are also very slow when they enter the house at the end.

[Doc]

That's certainly the real-life reason.

But I have no problem with the differences. If you look at the dead in Night, they vary greatly within the same movie. Many of them are no different from the ones in Dawn.

For example, once the sun goes down and they start looking at the dead through the windows, all of them seem to be shambling around very slowly. They are also very slow when they enter the house at the end. Ehh...Your probably right that there is no difference ,but you got to admit that there were a few fast ones in Night. But what I'm really want to know what happened to them between the gap in Dawn and Day. Geez even when there is a few undead it seems like humans don't stan a chance.:rockbrow:

[Trin]

In all the movies the zombies seem faster when they've got a human in sight and they seem slow when they're just killing time. The zombies in Dawn just shuffling slowly around the mall proper sped up when Roger and Peter were noticed. They moved like it was Clinique bonus week at Dillards (you married guys understand that, right?). Throughout the original movies they seemed to be within a set range of speed and intellect, with a few pushing the bounds at the high or low end.

Fast zombies produce a fight or flight instinct which is certainly a hallmark of horror. They're more deadly and a superior opponent. It's easy to make them scary.

But I feel that slow zombies are more interesting. They produce a more pervasive dread. It's a more complex form of horror. It's not about immediate survival - any able bodied person can evade them in the short term. It's about the long term. Sleeping at night knowing that no matter what you do and where you go they're out there and the numbers are increasing as your supplies run out. It's about the claustrophobia of knowing that your world is getting smaller as theirs is getting bigger, and any structure you make for yourself is a prison. No one is coming to save you and eventually if you want to live you've got to go out there.

[millsaps05]

In all the movies the zombies seem faster when they've got a human in sight and they seem slow when they're just killing time. The zombies in Dawn just shuffling slowly around the mall proper sped up when Roger and Peter were noticed.

That's a good point.

I think that one reason the first Zombie in NOTLD seems faster and more intelligent is that Romero wanted to draw the audience in quickly. A slow stupid Zombie that Johnny just pushes over might not have generated the immediate scare and interest that a faster, smarter, stronger Zombie would. Just a thought.

Love the movies (obviously or I wouldn't be on this bored). Just thought it was worth some dicussion.

[Wyldwraith]

Want another theory?

NOTLD had more "short time ago I was alive" zombies. Ie: Tons of people were getting bitten, or VERY fresh corpses were reanimating. Even when you *totally* deprive the brain of oxygen studies have shown it takes days for the last neurons to stop firing and the last of various vital connections to conk out. Nowhere near enough left to run a human being..but what about enough to give a zombie a "flicker of inspiration"?

Then in Dawn you've got zombies who've been wandering around out in the elements for days/weeks. Brains had more time to rot, and with it the last traces of anything not being preserved actively by whatever force makes zombies reanimate/shamble around.

That would neatly explain why the zombies got dumber in Dawn.

Then you'll want a theory for why they got smart again in Land. My best theory is that reanimation is caused by a retrovirus of some sort. Over years the virus itself mutated, possibly enough to augment its powers of reanimation thus kick-starting some dead neurons/cortex tissue.

That's really as far as I ever went with it. That theory's kept the discrepancies from bugging me for years :)

[Trin]

That theory's kept the discrepancies from bugging me for years :)
Not sure I agree with the theory but you sleep better at night than I do.

The Romero zombie is an odd condition. It really has two facets that are very distinct and medically different from one another.

The first is that anyone who dies with a brain intact rises as a zombie. It doesn't rely on coming in contact with anything - it's not an infection - it just happens. And even years after the initial outbreak whatever is the cause is still present and defies explanation.

The second is that the newly risen zombies contain some kind of infection or toxin that is easily transmitted and has a 100% mortality rate among humans.

[SRP76]

Want another theory?

NOTLD had more "short time ago I was alive" zombies. Ie: Tons of people were getting bitten, or VERY fresh corpses were reanimating. Even when you *totally* deprive the brain of oxygen studies have shown it takes days for the last neurons to stop firing and the last of various vital connections to conk out. Nowhere near enough left to run a human being..but what about enough to give a zombie a "flicker of inspiration"?

Then in Dawn you've got zombies who've been wandering around out in the elements for days/weeks. Brains had more time to rot, and with it the last traces of anything not being preserved actively by whatever force makes zombies reanimate/shamble around.

That would neatly explain why the zombies got dumber in Dawn.



The problem there is Roger and Stephen. They certainly hadn't been rotting for months, and they were slow shambler-types.

[Wyldwraith]

I can explain Roger/Stephen consistent to my theory,
We're talking two people here. There's enough variations in speed in GAR zombies to chalk them up as slower than average. Yet if that doesn't do it for you...

Flyboy got ravaged by the infection, which ultimately killed him. How do we know whether or not the slower ones could just be people with minor bites who later succumbed to the infection and reanimated. The process that killed them could screw the body up, making them slower than someone who got bit and died seconds later.

Nothing to conclusively base this on, but the tiny cross-section available in that example isn't strongly disproving either. It does after all seem to be the trend that *overall* they were quicker in Night, slower in Dawn and quicker again in Land.

Or, you could just say Stephen/Roger were in rigor ;)

[SRP76]

I don't think there's any real way to "explain" the discrepancy.

In fact, I'm not so sure there really is one. The only "fast" zombies in Night were Cemetary Guy, and....well, I can't think of another. They all shambled.

[Craig]

I guess the fast zombies are more of a heartpounding (RUUUUUUUUUN!!!) sort of fear, and they definitely seem more ravenous and that I find very scary. Also, you're probably gonna need more than a locked door to stop a runner at full speed.

But the slow zombies, they personify impending doom, and are much more likely to swarm your position and surround you, leaving you know way out. This is definitely creepier and is the sort of situation where psychological horror is brought in.

In the end I can't really decide which is scarier... :lol:

[Huescacho]

I think that there are two answers:
1ª) Fast zombies are more scary than slow, because they can caught you easily.
2ª) Slow zombies are more scary than fast, because they will kill y ou slowly, and this, looks horrible!.

The zombies, could be intelligents, in first days, but, the time run, and the bodies are damaged by the time (the head too), loosing mind.

[Legion2213]

Both are scary in their own way.

I reckon I could take down half a dozen slow GAR zeds on my own if need be (Tony Todd style!)...but when they increase to a few dozen or so, you are well and truly stuffed, especially if you are trapped somewhere.

The fast ones are flat out terrifying IMO...just one or two against an unarmed human and it's soil your pants time. You don't want to come up against these fellows!

BTW, Stephen was badly messed up when he re-animated, Roger had only been "awake" for a second or two before Peter put him out of his misery...how fast is a live human two seconds after waking up...not very fast at all IMO.

[EvilNed]

I view the films as independent zombiefilms, and not sequels in the same sense that Dawn necessarily follows Night. Alot of things change from film to film, like the technology. And so do the zombies. The zombies were set to fit the film, the film was not set to fit the zombies.