And the ranting reaches Hostel's door...

[MinionZombie]

But first...

Shoot 'Em Up = brilliant fun:

http://deadshed.blogspot.com/2007/11/all-guns-blazing.html

And now, the bitching...

Hostel 1 & 2 (mainly the latter):

http://deadshed.blogspot.com/2007/11/rant-about-hostels.html

[bassman]

Not too much to say about "Shoot Em Up", huh?

Thanks for the Hostel 2......I know now to not even bother.

[AcesandEights]

Haven't seen either of the Hostels yet, so I'm a bit hesitant to check out your thoughts for fear of spoilers, but I'm so tempted...

Shoot 'em up was really decent? **** it, I'm checking out your blog to see what ya say on that one.

[SymphonicX]

i liked Hostel 1 - for what it is, a nasty torture movie without much point....still it was a good laugh.

[Danny]

just like saw 4 hostel 2 looks like more of the same torture porn to me and ive got better ways to waste my time, jackass is more intelectual stimulating than that garbage.

-and more entertaining.

[MinionZombie]

Aces - don't worry, I do my utmost to remain spoiler-free, or at least quite vague over issues that are kinda vague themselves.

Basically, you won't finding me saying stuff like "and then when THIS guy gets kicked in the nuts, the OTHER guy gets run over by a building, and then SHE totally does that guy twice whilst the guy we thought was DEAD is in fact ALIVE!" :lol:

Ugh "torture porn"...:hurl: ... as I said in my blog, I despise that term. :rolleyes:

There's a quality idea, and quality itself, somewhere within the Hostel films, but there's so much fat that needs trimming that instead of being a prime cut of beef, it's a chewy old re-heated piece that's intermittently worthwhile.

As I said on my blog, if you took the best parts of Hostel 1 and 2 and boshed them together, you'd have a great 2 hour horror movie ... and I don't mean just doing a re-edit of both movies into one, but rather taking the scripts for both/ideas for both, and creating an entirely new movie - now THAT would have been truly worthwhile.

But yes, the first Hostel is a masterpiece compared to the second, which - save for about 35% of the film - is pish.

[DubiousComforts]

Ugh "torture porn"...:hurl: ... as I said in my blog, I despise that term. :rolleyes:
Unfortunately, the shoe fits all too well in this case.

Hostel, the Saw franchise and the seemingly endless imitators are simply doing what Se7en had pulled off a decade earlier... and not doing it nearly as well. None of the latest carbon copies can seriously lay claim to new ground that wasn't already tread over ad nauseum by the previous facsimiles like Saw or Fear.com 4-5 years ago.

Graphic violence works well in horror films when it has a point; when it doesn't, it simply falls into the realm of pornography which in itself is nothing new. Just watch any of H.G. Lewis' amateurish 60s gore fests, which by design are devoid of story, characters and taste.

And if you really need a horror film that is difficult to sit through, forget about weenies like Eli Roth and go to the master of the genre: Takashi Miike.

[MinionZombie]

Well I don't find Hostel hard to sit through, not in terms of violence anyway, more in terms of "come on! something happen!!!" and "if these two movies were as one, it's be awesome!"

SAW I found mildly hard to sit through for moments, but I'm a seasoned horror viewer, so...

Now SAW III, that did make my reel on first viewing, mainly the rotted pig slush drowning device and the limb twister.

As for Takashi Miike, indeed he does some messed up stuff. "Ichi the Killer" being a prime example, sliced off nipples, cut off tongues, that dude suspended by his own flesh and so on...and then that dude shagging a corpse in "Visitor Q"...blimey.

I probably reeled about the same amount, perhaps a smidge more in some cases, but...hmmm.

Oh, but his "Masters of Horror" episode, "Imprint", that was f*cked up...yeah that made me reel...no wonder it got banned in America.

[Mike70]

Oh, but his "Masters of Horror" episode, "Imprint", that was f*cked up...yeah that made me reel...no wonder it got banned in America.


yeah, imprint-that was fraked up. maybe i am just jaded after so many years of watching murder and chaos in horror movies but i really failed to see what the big deal was. suitable for 2d graders? hell no. banned?? still don't understand that one.

i didn't even think imprint was one of the stronger eps. in fact, i would rank it near the bottom.

[MinionZombie]

yeah, imprint-that was fraked up. maybe i am just jaded after so many years of watching murder and chaos in horror movies but i really failed to see what the big deal was. suitable for 2d graders? hell no. banned?? still don't understand that one.

i didn't even think imprint was one of the stronger eps. in fact, i would rank it near the bottom.
I think it was the whole aborted fetuses thing ... and maybe the finger nail torture ... but especially the former, methinks, that didn't go down well with the suits in Americaland. I get the impression at least, that it's a massive taboo over there.

[Mike70]

yeah you are probably right about the fetuses thingy. there are some "people" over here that are just totally insane on that subject.

[Danny]

the feotus thing didnt bug me, but the nail torture was the only time EVER that ive had to look away form the screen.

[DubiousComforts]

the feotus thing didnt bug me, but the nail torture was the only time EVER that ive had to look away form the screen.
Imprint was obviously banned from cable broadcast due to the abortion theme. But it was then released to home video, where they could advertise it with a controversial "BANNED!" label.

The fingernail scene is a great example of why Miike is a master compared to the current crop of Hollywood hucksters, like Rob Zombie or Eli Roth. It's not gory by any stretch, but Miike knows how to get under the skin... literally. Keep in mind the entire torture sequence wouldn't have been nearly as effective if he didn't successfully build up to it. From the very first scene, Imprint is unsettling, not a place that you want to be.

By comparison, Don Coscarelli's first season episode had a similar scene with a drill bit into an eyeball, but the episode was lame and so the impact was diminished. Of course, Miike wasn't asked to direct an episode for season 2. IMO, he made the other directors look like "Amateurs of Horror." :D

Miike has made a ton of great films in many different genres. By all means look for Happiness of the Katakuris. It's The Sound of Music meets Dawn of the Dead, if you can believe that.

[Danny]

i can. i wrote my film exam essay at college about it.;)

but yeah, i use the phrase torture porn as it fits, the only reason someone goes to see a flick like saw 4 is not becuase of any mystery, just "oo, how will they get torn apart in a creative way this time?", its just a flick for people to go and see gore, its the cheapest of exploitation cinema and barely above the greasiest of horror porn, its only for people who get off on gore, hence "torture porn".
ive never found any saw of hostel type film scary, there comical in there blunt and tactless buckets of blood, but the trouble is unlike brain dead they try to take it seriously- and fail i might add.

Now imprint was unique for me, i never felt scared in that "pulled into the story and expect the killer to jump out at me" type of scare ,more the disturbed "oh my god" type of reaction, that woman tied up by her akle and wrist and having needles shoved under her nails and into her gums for a crime she didnt commit was just disturbing to me, in the literal emaning. the one and only time my desensitized viewing ideals has forced me to actually look away, only for a few seconds, but its not happened before or since. THAT is horror.

[MinionZombie]

Ugh "torture porn" :hurl:

It's still a really dismissive term, I feel it's only used by people who have a personal disliking of a genre, but in itself is dismissive.

I like the SAW movies, and one of the reasons is the story and how the stories of the films all interconnect, compared to your average franchise, the story is much more complex and detailed...there is the gore issue, but why complain about the likes of SAW and Hostel when in the 1980s there was an absolute torrent of slasher flicks, many of which are revered as cult classics these days, films with their own followings and that's fair enough.

It's okay if people don't like a certain genre, but I personally think dismissing it completely with such populist catch phrases as "torture porn" is just weak and daft.

[Geophyrd]

Haven't seen Shoot Em Up! but I definitely liked both Hostels.

I'm not sure what the problem is. Honestly, if you thought nothing happened, what were you watching while the movie was on? The term torture porn is ridiculous, likening the horror movie to just watching porn but made of nothing but money shots. If you want 2 hours of watching people get tortured, I'm sure that there's a market out there for you, but its probably illegal.

Me? I really liked the story in both...and if anything, the torture was a little over the top for me. The resolution of the storyline in 2 featuring the guy from Desperate Housewives...that was rough. The idea in the first one was unique (5xs as much for an American), the second even better (Ebay!). The motivations were clear and tensions were high. If anything, I'd like a third one in which they approach the story from the POV of one of the people recruiting...why are they doing it? What do they think is going to happen?

[Danny]

but why complain about the likes of SAW and Hostel when in the 1980s there was an absolute torrent of slasher flicks, many of which are revered as cult classics these days, films with their own followings and that's fair enough.



...because it means the genre is stagnating and not improving over time?

[DubiousComforts]

...because it means the genre is stagnating and not improving over time?

The 80s movies had their labels, too. They were called splatter flicks, and for every "classic" there were dozens of cheap films that had little going for them other than gore effects. Even subsequent films in the Friday the 13th and Halloween series were stripped of the edginess that made the initial movies great, and sanitized so that the producers could obtain a "R" rating more easily (as well as all the prime time advertising that goes with it).

This has nothing to do with loving a particular niche in the horror genre as there is always a flood of junk to follow every milestone.

[MinionZombie]

...because it means the genre is stagnating and not improving over time?
Stagnating? Evidently not, the genre is completely different to what is has been in every previous decade, each decade it's something different. That's far from stagnation.