Surviving Night

[SRP76]

We've had all kinds of discussion on how each of us would "do it better" than our heroes in Dawn, in regards to occupying the mall.

But, I haven't seen a lot of the same thing about the farmhouse in Night.

So, let's do that here. What do you think Ben and crew did wrong? How would you have held off the dead?

[DubiousComforts]

But, I haven't seen a lot of the same thing about the farmhouse in Night.

So, let's do that here. What do you think Ben and crew did wrong? How would you have held off the dead?
The dead could have been easily held off in NIGHT. The problem is that nobody was able to work together long enough to execute a solid strategy for survival. Ultimately, it doesn't matter which is the better plan or whether the upstairs or downstairs is the safest place when people are the real problem. They could have been trying to survive a hurricane and the result would have been the same.

I also don't agree that Harry was "right." Harry's was a self-fulfilling prophecy. Although the cellar door held, the cellar did prove to be a "death trap" for Ben. Perhaps he would have survived had he already been upstairs when the posse arrived.

Imagine if everyone had holed up in the basement for 8 eight hours, only to have Karen revive as a ghoul. It would have been complete chaos.

[panic]

Its so obvious how to survive Night.

1. Barricade lower level windows and doors as done by those in Night.
2. Gather EVERYTHING useful and move it to second level of farmhouse.
3. Kill the infected girl.
4. Destroy the stairs.
5. Wait out the dead...

The above is not original. Most folks who've thought at all seriously about Night have come to the same conclusions. #3 is the difficult step. Hiding out upstairs has the advantage of being able to stay out of sight of the dead ... Maybe they'll lose interest? Also, you can get a bird's eye view from the windows, and if a quick escape becomes necessary, you can lure zombies to one side of house and ladder out of a window on the other side (say with sheets tied together or something).

An alternative would be to just make a break for it as Barbara did in Night '90. Although harder to commit to, it certainly would work for most of the characters.

/p

[DubiousComforts]

An alternative would be to just make a break for it as Barbara did in Night '90. Although harder to commit to, it certainly would work for most of the characters.

If Ben and/or Tom had armed themselves and made a break from the farmhouse, it would have also served as a diversion and would have probably lured most of the ghouls away. Then the remaining people could have boarded the front door and taken refuge in the cellar until help arrived.

Also, rather than destroying the stairs, wouldn't it be more effective to board up access to the second floor? The ghouls would have little leverage on the stairs to break through the barricade, and gravity would also be working against them.

[SRP76]

The whole "make a break for it" routine gets snagged when you consider the fact that they weren't going to "walk right by" the zombies on foot for 17 miles. Ben was only a hundred yards away at the gas pump, and barely made it back.

It also hinges on "kill the infected girl". They certainly couldn't carry her all that way; that was a main argument point in the movie. If Mom and Dad don't want you killing their little girl, you've got a problem. You can't shoot all three quickly enough to keep them off you, and they will kill you to protect their child.

And about "kill the infected girl":

That's fine, if you aren't Ben and the others. They did not know about the nature of the phenomenon at the time. If you don't know that bitten people die quickly, and rise again, what reason would you have to kill her? And how? The "shoot them in the head" rule doesn't come clear to Ben until late in the movie.

Removing the stairs is not reasonable. Brooks has obviously never done construction work. Do you know how hard it is to tear down a staircase with nothing but a 16-ounce hammer?! You'll be there a week.

A more realistic option would be to take two interior doors, and nail them down over the opening at the top of the staircase. You then take all the furniture on the second floor, and sit it on top of the boards. Job done, in 1/1000 of the time.

This could be done with, or without the cooperation of the Coopers. Let them stay in the basement.

The main point would be to go upstairs and ride it out until daylight. Our heroes were fine until they went outside. So, don't go out there!

If you are going to try to leave eventually, you do it during the day, when you can see your hand in front of your face. You don't take on the zombie horde in the dark.

[DubiousComforts]

Ben was only a hundred yards away at the gas pump, and barely made it back.
But he did make it back with only a torch. He barely fired the rifle which was not effective in hand-to-hand combat. Also, all of the ghouls were lured away from the house by the activity.



A more realistic option would be to take two interior doors, and nail them down over the opening at the top of the staircase. You then take all the furniture on the second floor, and sit it on top of the boards. Job done, in 1/1000 of the time.

Agree with you 1000%.

[acealive1]

The whole "make a break for it" routine gets snagged when you consider the fact that they weren't going to "walk right by" the zombies on foot for 17 miles. Ben was only a hundred yards away at the gas pump, and barely made it back.

It also hinges on "kill the infected girl". They certainly couldn't carry her all that way; that was a main argument point in the movie. If Mom and Dad don't want you killing their little girl, you've got a problem. You can't shoot all three quickly enough to keep them off you, and they will kill you to protect their child.

And about "kill the infected girl":

That's fine, if you aren't Ben and the others. They did not know about the nature of the phenomenon at the time. If you don't know that bitten people die quickly, and rise again, what reason would you have to kill her? And how? The "shoot them in the head" rule doesn't come clear to Ben until late in the movie.

Removing the stairs is not reasonable. Brooks has obviously never done construction work. Do you know how hard it is to tear down a staircase with nothing but a 16-ounce hammer?! You'll be there a week.

A more realistic option would be to take two interior doors, and nail them down over the opening at the top of the staircase. You then take all the furniture on the second floor, and sit it on top of the boards. Job done, in 1/1000 of the time.

This could be done with, or without the cooperation of the Coopers. Let them stay in the basement.

The main point would be to go upstairs and ride it out until daylight. Our heroes were fine until they went outside. So, don't go out there!

If you are going to try to leave eventually, you do it during the day, when you can see your hand in front of your face. You don't take on the zombie horde in the dark.



you're damn right. honestly i would have tried to sure up the windows and doors as much as possible before going upstairs. hell,maybe even hang drop outside and nail doors over the outside of the front and back door might have worked too. and we all know zombies arent the best climbers,so all efforts could be concentrated to keeping the downstairs zombie free.

then pick off the ones by the power :lol::lol:

[Dead Hoosier]

Yep, destorying the stairs is impossible. And with that many zombies, any attempt to barricade the bottom of the stairs would likely fail. If you had enough ammunition, you could create a trap/shooting gallery by blocking the bottom of the stairs and firing down at them, but the ammo supply seemed to be limited.
For starters, how about not being a dumbass and firing a weapon at a gas pump? That trip was a disaster. They would have been better off circling back around to the house and finding a bolt-cutting tool in the apparently well-supplied cellar.
I think the cellar was the way to go. Nothing was getting through that door (they were made a helluva lot better back then than they are today, too). You could drill a viewing hole through the door to scope out and possible escape. Simply, you have to take all of your supplies to the safest place and wait...and that safest place was the cellar.

[acealive1]

that safest place was the cellar.

i didnt notice any bathrooms down there,u know people crap themselves out of fear so i'd pick the upstairs :lol::lol:

[SRP76]

"The cellar's a deathtrap!":p

Couldn't resist.

But it's true. If you are upstairs (as in, second floor/roof), you can leave when you want to, from multiple exit points.

If you're in the basement, you aren't getting out, period. If the dead don't leave on their own (and you would have no reason to assume they would), you would be in that cellar forever. Forever can be a long time. Especially without food and water.

[acealive1]

"The cellar's a deathtrap!":p

Couldn't resist.

But it's true. If you are upstairs (as in, second floor/roof), you can leave when you want to, from multiple exit points.

If you're in the basement, you aren't getting out, period. If the dead don't leave on their own (and you would have no reason to assume they would), you would be in that cellar forever. Forever can be a long time. Especially without food and water.





i guess the cellar has its pros and cons. pros being u can put a 2x4 behind it and touch the wall and the leverage would be a few stenches VS. a WHOLE HOUSE. they'd get bored and leave. on the other hand,u have the whole upstairs which is good so u dont have to worry about coming out of the crapped and having your favorite neck bitten off. the cellar argument loses cuz if they 2x4 snaps,u have to get out of the windows in there. and thats easy pickens for zombies cuz you'll be face down while u get out of the windows. so yea, upstairs rules....and no tv reception is heard from in a basement.

[SRP76]

Another possibility when it comes to trying to get out (from wherever you hole up), is to keep Cooper around as a meat shield.

When making your escape, shove him out there first, so any zombie sneak-attacks will happen to him. Then, you can get away while they're busy eating the most worthless member of your group.

Never underestimate the importance of a good meat shield.

[Skippy911sc]

I think the best solution and the one I would go with is the upstairs route...

I think removing all the stair would be problematic however removing some of the key steps could be accomplished...those steps could be used to shore up the windows and doors. The upstairs is where I would be...I don't know of many basements/cellars that do not have access from the outside...whether it be windows/vents or exterior stairs. Also how about having so many of these thing on the first floor causing a cave in? It is an old farmhouse and many may argue that they were built stronger but I have been in some that are rotted by termites or just not built to the standards of today.

[Legion2213]

Leave the Coopers in the cellar, the rest of them head on up to the loft (I have never seen a house without a loft).

Job done.

[acealive1]

Leave the Coopers in the cellar, the rest of them head on up to the loft (I have never seen a house without a loft).

Job done.


loft is above the garage here.................

[Legion2213]

loft is above the garage here.................

Would ya be safe from marauding hoardes of deadites up there? Hight is the key here (IMO) if they can't bash away at your defenses you are set for as long you have water.

[DubiousComforts]

I think the cellar was the way to go. Nothing was getting through that door (they were made a helluva lot better back then than they are today, too). You could drill a viewing hole through the door to scope out and possible escape. Simply, you have to take all of your supplies to the safest place and wait...and that safest place was the cellar.

There is another big disadvantage to the cellar: it doesn't exist in any farmhouse as seen in the movie. The upstairs rooms had old-style radiators for heat, yet in the cellar there were meters for centralized heating as well as a huge junction box suitable for an office building. In reality, there would have also been an outside entrance to the cellar, which I believe Barbra runs by on the way to the back porch.

[SRP76]

In reality, there would have also been an outside entrance to the cellar, which I believe Barbra runs by on the way to the back porch.

Good eye, there.

I didn't notice seeing one....I'm going to put the DVD in right now, and check...

Uh...can't really tell. It looks a bit small and off-kilter. It might be a basement entrance, but then again, it might just be a board lying up against the house.

[acealive1]

Would ya be safe from marauding hoardes of deadites up there? Hight is the key here (IMO) if they can't bash away at your defenses you are set for as long you have water.


no u wouldnt. garage isnt as sturdy as a house. plus theres more to a house,stenches could probably push a garage over due to its size

[Legion2213]

DC, well spotted, but I will point out that in GAR's world of Night, it is clearly stated that there is only one entrance to the cellar, so the opening that Barbra runs past must be discounted (or viewed as a seconadary cellar).


no u wouldnt. garage isnt as sturdy as a house. plus theres more to a house,stenches could probably push a garage over due to its size

Ah well, better make some other plans bud...me, I'll be sneaking off into my attic when "they" come...Cooper style! :sneaky:

[SRP76]

DC, well spotted, but I will point out that in GAR's world of Night, it is clearly stated that there is only one entrance to the cellar, so the opening that Barbra runs past must be discounted (or viewed as a seconadary cellar).




Not necessarily. It was only stated by Cooper that there's only one door. And he's a screwup of Miguel proportions.

His word might not carry a lot of weight. A good chance he was wrong.

[acealive1]

DC, well spotted, but I will point out that in GAR's world of Night, it is clearly stated that there is only one entrance to the cellar, so the opening that Barbra runs past must be discounted (or viewed as a seconadary cellar).



Ah well, better make some other plans bud...me, I'll be sneaking off into my attic when "they" come...Cooper style! :sneaky:


i never said i'd go to a loft in the first place............

[Legion2213]

Not necessarily. It was only stated by Cooper that there's only one door. And he's a screwup of Miguel proportions.

Oof, now that is harsh! :D

Anybody got the NotLD novel? Maybe that would shed some light on this with a better narrators description of said cellar?

[DubiousComforts]

Not necessarily. It was only stated by Cooper that there's only one door. And he's a screwup of Miguel proportions.

His word might not carry a lot of weight. A good chance he was wrong.
It's mentioned (though of course, never seen) that there was a fruit cellar in the basement. Maybe the outside door leads to the fruit cellar?

Helen Cooper is also stabbed on a step in front of a door. Mostly likely it's a door to a boiler room, but could it have been a door to the fruit cellar?

[sandrock74]

Upstairs is the way people. Any military strategist would agree that the high ground is always preferable. The upstairs windows gave perfect views of the entire surrounding area. I always wondered why those windows weren't used more?
As far as taking out the stairs goes, if faced with death by being eaten alive by a horde of reanimated ghouls, I would get those steps pried off in a hurry! You could call me Bob Mother ****in' Villa! It doesn't have to be pretty, just good enough so the zombies (if they make it inside) can't use the steps. Also barricade the top of the stairwell too as backup.
If worse came to worse, you could always escape to the roof of the house. I really don't think the zombies were coordinated enough to climb out there after anyone!
I always thought the upstairs was wasted...

[SRP76]

I was thinking the same thing about the roof, until I put the DVD in a few minutes ago.

As it turns out, this particular house doesn't have gables that give onto the roof. The upstairs windows are below the top of the exterior walls.

[acealive1]

i at least would have picke doff the zombies standing by the energy meter. some of those idiots are crafty

[wyvern1096]

I have a lot of relatives in west Kentucky farm country. The extra cellar door may go to a storm cellar. Most of them (my relatives) have a seperate cellar for tornado weather. The logic being if the twister smashes the house flat it won't collapse into the cellar you're hiding in.

[acealive1]

I have a lot of relatives in west Kentucky farm country. The extra cellar door may go to a storm cellar. Most of them (my relatives) have a seperate cellar for tornado weather. The logic being if the twister smashes the house flat it won't collapse into the cellar you're hiding in.


to be totally blunt and honest,it may seem far fetched but apparently if u open all ur windows and ur by a twister,ur house is spared a lot of times because theres no pressure build up

[panic]

Destroying the stairs is definitely not impossible. Agreed, it would be a challenge with just a hammer, but I bet they could have managed with what they had. I bet ~4 hours with hammer and screw driver. Less with an axe. To buy time they could use interior doors to barricade off the room w/ the staircase in it.

[wyvern1096]

to be totally blunt and honest,it may seem far fetched but apparently if u open all ur windows and ur by a twister,ur house is spared a lot of times because theres no pressure build up


True, but doesn't help much if a tree or combine is thrown into the house, which happened to my grandfather's place. The same storm leveled a couple of outbuildings with open doorways and windows. Those were not built to the standards of a house, however.

[acealive1]

True, but doesn't help much if a tree or combine is thrown into the house, which happened to my grandfather's place. The same storm leveled a couple of outbuildings with open doorways and windows. Those were not built to the standards of a house, however.

yea but thats a TREE. not a twister :p

[Skippy911sc]

to be totally blunt and honest,it may seem far fetched but apparently if u open all ur windows and ur by a twister,ur house is spared a lot of times because theres no pressure build up

Q: We had a discussion over dinner tonight about tornado safety. Two opinions were expressed:

* Leave all windows open to prevent them from breaking
* Leave all windows closed to keep pressure from building against the roof of the structure.

Can you supply some information that would settle this discussion?

A: The second choice, leaving the windows closed, is the correct answer for the reason you give.

The first choice used to be the standard advice for tornadoes, but it was proven wrong years ago. (The reason for this old, wrong advice was not to keep the windows from being broken, but to "equalize the pressure" inside and outside the building.)

Last spring we published a story on how the 1979 Wichita Falls, Texas, tornado led to changes to tornado safety rules, including the one about opening windows as a twister approached. (Related story: 1979 Texas tornado led to safety changes)

The old theory was that the drop in air pressure as a tornado hit a building caused the higher pressure inside to push the walls out - to make the building "explode."

Instead, researchers who studied the Wichita Falls tornado damage realized that wind blowing into open, or broken, windows pushes up on the roof. At the same time, wind blowing over the roof is making it act like an airplane wing that generates a lifting force. If the roof lifts off, the walls can fall outward, making it look like the building exploded.

On the right side of the page with the Wichita Falls story you'll find links to a lot of information about tornadoes, including safety rules.


I live in the lad of twisters and we don't open windows...of course I have a bomb shelter though.

[dmbfanintn]

to be totally blunt and honest,it may seem far fetched but apparently if u open all ur windows and ur by a twister,ur house is spared a lot of times because theres no pressure build up


Sorry Ace, but this is absolutely untrue!! This used to be the general way of thinking but this theory has been disproven in recent years. It is much more dangerous to leave windows open than to close them....

Yeah, what he said above ^^^^^

[acealive1]

Sorry Ace, but this is absolutely untrue!! This used to be the general way of thinking but this theory has been disproven in recent years. It is much more dangerous to leave windows open than to close them....

Yeah, what he said above ^^^^^

so even though my high school's roof was ripped off by a tornado cuz all windows were closed means nothing? ok then

[sandrock74]

Wait a minute...
You mean there's a horde of walking ghouls outside to contend with AND a tornado?!? Good God! How much stress can someone take??
With my luck the high winds would start throwing the ghouls right thru the windows and into my lap!

[Legion2213]

Wait a minute...
You mean there's a horde of walking ghouls outside to contend with AND a tornado?!? Good God! How much stress can someone take??
With my luck the high winds would start throwing the ghouls right thru the windows and into my lap!

:lol:

[acealive1]

Wait a minute...
You mean there's a horde of walking ghouls outside to contend with AND a tornado?!? Good God! How much stress can someone take??
With my luck the high winds would start throwing the ghouls right thru the windows and into my lap!

anythings possible in detroit. which is why i'd hide out in center line:lol::lol:

[sandrock74]

anythings possible in detroit. which is why i'd hide out in center line:lol::lol:

Be my guest. I'll be up in the Port Austin/Caseville area! A grand total population of 1,000 and LOTS of empty vacation homes and cottages along the beach.

[acealive1]

Be my guest. I'll be up in the Port Austin/Caseville area! A grand total population of 1,000 and LOTS of empty vacation homes and cottages along the beach.



u tried belleville?

[dmbfanintn]

so even though my high school's roof was ripped off by a tornado cuz all windows were closed means nothing? ok then

You what i bolded? How can you say with any certainty that the roof came off "Because the windows were closed"?

Is it not possible that the roof came off because the winds outside were 80 miles an hours???

[acealive1]

You what i bolded? How can you say with any certainty that the roof came off "Because the windows were closed"?

Is it not possible that the roof came off because the winds outside were 80 miles an hours???



the laws of physics state the walls would have to come down as well. which they did not

[sandrock74]

u tried belleville?

No, no! Your thinking south! Everything down river is congested with people (therefore zombies). You have to go up north. The Port Austen/Caseville area is exactly at the tip of the thumb of Michigan. Believe it or not, hardly anyone lives there year round. Lots of open space and no bodies.

[acealive1]

No, no! Your thinking south! Everything down river is congested with people (therefore zombies). You have to go up north. The Port Austen/Caseville area is exactly at the tip of the thumb of Michigan. Believe it or not, hardly anyone lives there year round. Lots of open space and no bodies.



LOL bellville is more deserted that union town. its on a lake too

[DubiousComforts]

LOL bellville is more deserted that union town. its on a lake too
Ha, the funny thing is (though it's not apparent from the movie) the NIGHT farmhouse is actually surrounded by water on all sides except for one. So everyone would have had to swim just a bit to get there, including Barbra and the cemetery ghoul. :D

The best strategy would have been to kill everything in the immediate area and then defend the only access road in until help arrived.

[SRP76]

Defend it with what? They had one rifle, with limited ammo.

Contrasted with Night'90, where it seemed like everyone had a damn semiautomatic weapon.

[dmbfanintn]

the laws of physics state the walls would have to come down as well. which they did not


OK Ace, the last thing I want to do is argue with you, but seriously here man, you are wrong about the windows needing to be open.

See this site:

http://www.tornadochaser.com/myths.html


Open your windows during a tornado?
Scientists once thought that the low pressure in a tornado caused the normal air pressure in
houses to explode out. It turned out that the strong winds from the tornado destroyed the
houses, not the pressure change. If the tornado wants your windows open, it will open them for you.

Or see this one:

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/earth/Atmosphere/tornado/myths.html&edu=high


Scientists once thought that you should open your windows during a tornado so your house won't explode. The thinking behind this idea is that the extreme low pressure in a tornado would cause the air in your house to explode. Opening your windows would let the air expand without damaging your house. As it turns out, houses aren't as sealed as they thought so the air would have no problem getting out. It turns out that the strong winds associated with a tornado can lift the roof off a house. Without the support of the roof, the wall are blown down and they fall outward. The roof may be dropped back on the rubble or some place nearby. This gives the impression that the house exploded.

Another common myth was that places were "protected" by a mountain or a river. In reality, no place is safe. While weak tornadoes may not be able to crest mountains or jump rivers, the strong ones can. Another problem is the infrequentness with which tornadoes occur. People in a town can draw a conclusion that since no tornadoes have ever come through the town but a couple have happened right outside of town, then they must be protected. The topic here is not protection; it's probability. A town is small while the surrounding countryside "outside of town" is large. Chances are that a tornado would strike in the larger area rather than the smaller one. This can be a problem because people won't take shelter if they think they're already safe.

Or this one:

http://www.hprcc.unl.edu/nebraska/tornado-myths.html


4. We should open windows if a tornado is approaching.
(FALSE: STAY AWAY from all windows. It won't make any difference whether the windows are open or closed IF your home is struck by a tornado).

See man....If you want, I can find more information on it than this, but the fact of the matter is, during a tornado the safest thing to do with your windows is to leave them closed.

[Dommm]

I would have personally taken a point man out with me earlier and nailed the windows shut froom the outside (in the movie they did it from the inside anyone with enough weight/strength can push the nails out), leaving little slits through them to view through. Also I would have turned off all the lights and kept them off throughout the night and used a oil burner for any needed light. I would have also move the fridge upstairs and left he TV up there and few extra boards. As well as a quick release system at the top of the stairs so if downstairs wass infiltrated the group would retreat upstairs. The quick release would then be activated piling furniture at the bottom of the stairs giving you time to board up the portal upstairs.

Hmm aint spent much time thinking about this one.

[DubiousComforts]

Defend it with what? They had one rifle, with limited ammo.
The men could have cleared the entire yard with three torches and the tire iron if they had worked together for about 10 seconds. They didn't even have to hunt for the ghouls -- just wait on the porch and burn anything that comes near. Then when a burning ghoul falls, smash the head in with the tire iron. "Beat e'm or burn 'em, they go up pretty easy."

The rifle should have been saved for a crisis situation--not that anyone in the group was a decent shot. Ben demonstrated that he couldn't hit the side of a barn to save his life.

[acealive1]

Ha, the funny thing is (though it's not apparent from the movie) the NIGHT farmhouse is actually surrounded by water on all sides except for one. So everyone would have had to swim just a bit to get there, including Barbra and the cemetery ghoul. :D

The best strategy would have been to kill everything in the immediate area and then defend the only access road in until help arrived.


how'd all those stenches get there then? was one of them a grandfather of big daddy?:lol:

[DubiousComforts]

how'd all those stenches get there then?
The filmmakers took some liberties. :D Of course, the audience doesn't know that the Connoquenessing creek surrounds the area. On the DVD commentary, they talk about bringing buckets of water to the house each day for drinking, flushing the toilet, etc.

[Wyldwraith]

Well,
Its not fair for me to say this, sitting here comfy in my recliner never having confronted an undead cannibal intent on devouring me but...

By the time all the men in the house were upstairs there were maybe a dozen zombies outside. If they'd taken the fight to them with nothing but metal bludgeons and farming implements I believe 2 strong men (forget Cooper) could prevail easily against a dozen zombies with all that room to maneuver in.

Having cleared out the mild congestion that had formed, it wouldn't have been hard to pick them off when they arrived by ones and twos.

If you care for a more conservative strategy how about this? Instead of making a run for the pumps use the last of the gas in the truck to do zombie-crushing doughnuts on the front lawn. Then just spike the crippled crawlers to finish them. THEN institute the picking them off as they arrived strategy. I believe they could've kept this up throughout the night, ESPECIALLY if they built up a bonfire or two during lulls in zombie-beatdowns. The bonfires would have helped funnel the zombies onto the desired ground for the combat as well as providing light to keep someone from getting grabbed by a zombie looming out of the darkness.

It doesn't have to be a sustainable strategy after all. By early morning the redneck shooters were on the scene. Two grown men with adrenaline flooding their systems and a few minutes at a time to rest here and there could keep skull-bashing for ten hours or so IMO. If things go south THEN retreat to upstairs/blocking the stairwell.

[DubiousComforts]

(forget Cooper)

I think Harry Cooper could have been an asset if armed and provoked. Just look at the way he charged upstairs brandishing that twisted metal pipe.

Ben: "Hey, Cooper, that ghoul outside looks like the guy that owes you money. No way he's paying you back now."
Cooper: "You BASTARDS!" (charges outside and starts beating indiscriminately).

On the flip side, like most teenagers, Tom was a real dope that needed to be told exactly what do to. He ran outside during the escape attempt without so much as a ball of yarn to defend himself. Apparently, while he could handle the truck "no sweat," the advanced mechanical operation of a gas pump was beyond him. Though it wasn't smart to blow the lock with a rifle, it was even dumber to spray the area with fuel before actually cramming the hose into the tank.

[sandrock74]

On the flip side, like most teenagers, Tom was a real dope that needed to be told exactly what do to. He ran outside during the escape attempt without so much as a ball of yarn to defend himself. Apparently, while he could handle the truck "no sweat," the advanced mechanical operation of a gas pump was beyond him. Though it wasn't smart to blow the lock with a rifle, it was even dumber to spray the area with fuel before actually cramming the hose into the tank.[/QUOTE]


People do crazy things when they are in danger.