Hi New Member Redge777

[Redge777]

Just found this site, I am going to have to spend some hours reading through the posts to get a feel for it.

I am hoping to find threads that look at the analogy of zombies as people of today.

From the elite view, zombies are commoners that speak what they consider false doctrine and teach other elites to feel and think about what is right, and that all people have value, eating brains in their perspective.

This comes from 2 Timothy 2:17 and the rest of that chapter.

They look at us as just mindless people living in instinct.

Shawn of the dead in the last 5 minutes showed how zombies were used to serve the elite, and considered this OK. Or just kept in a shack where the elites could go and play with them when they wanted.

Any threads with this line of reasoning please post below. Thanks.

Redge777

P.S. From the elite point of view I am called a zombie, and from that point of view, I am here to eat a few brains. Of coarse this all assumes the elites are correct, and do not just live in denial of there selfishness and evil. All people have value, and many are waking up. So I am not a zombie, regarless of others labels.

[Marie]

Elites is another word for living in your universe right?

Just clarifing things.

M_

[Danny]

...huh.

okey dokey.

[jim102016]

Just found this site, I am going to have to spend some hours reading through the posts to get a feel for it.

I am hoping to find threads that look at the analogy of zombies as people of today.

From the elite view, zombies are commoners that speak what they consider false doctrine and teach other elites to feel and think about what is right, and that all people have value, eating brains in their perspective.

This comes from 2 Timothy 2:17 and the rest of that chapter.

They look at us as just mindless people living in instinct.

Shawn of the dead in the last 5 minutes showed how zombies were used to serve the elite, and considered this OK. Or just kept in a shack where the elites could go and play with them when they wanted.

Any threads with this line of reasoning please post below. Thanks.

Redge777

P.S. From the elite point of view I am called a zombie, and from that point of view, I am here to eat a few brains. Of coarse this all assumes the elites are correct, and do not just live in denial of there selfishness and evil. All people have value, and many are waking up. So I am not a zombie, regarless of others labels.



Quit licking light sockets!

[Redge777]

Note this is all from the elites view, and I do not see common people as zombies, I am only offering an analogy of the symbolism.

I may have to offer more correlations.

In Shawn of the dead they go to the Windsor bar for safety. Windsor castle home of the elites.

When they hold up in the shopping mall, they go on spending sprees where everything is free for them.

I am not 100% sure on the zombie bite, it may be when an elite realizes having a conscience. When they see the dignity of all men, they turn on other elites, and effectively are now called zombies by other elites.

The bite might just be exposure, when an elite is exposed as corrupt, other elites cut all ties with them. This is the analogy in almost all the films when they have a friend that is bit.

In one film the one military scientist wanted to train the zombie. He even used the 'song' tape recorder to train with. The song and dance, or the media and pop culture used to keep us commoners either calm or fighting each other.

If you think about it as elite/commoner you will find this metaphor everywhere.

[DjfunkmasterG]

Welcome Redge,

As far as your synopsis, or thoughts on the zombies vs. human vs. bible aspects... more power to you brother. I was lost in the first 5 minutes, but wanted to welcome you to the forum just the same.

[Marie]

Okay, I THINK I've got your somewhat esoteric meaning. YOU think of zombie movies as some reflection on class struggle. While there are aspects of this I don't see it as the be all and end all of the zombie story.

A definition of terms would be really helpful, unless it is your intention to bewilder the rest of us, in which case most of us will eventually ignore you as a bore. You can only hide behind BS for so long.

Anyway, enjoy youself.

M_

[Yojimbo]

Not sure if you are a communist or a born again christian, but welcome to the boards all the same.

BTW: It doesn't matter to me if you are a commie or a xtian!

[bassman]

:confused:


We're gonna need a bigger boat....

[Yojimbo]

:confused:


We're gonna need a bigger boat....

Right on Bassman!

[major jay]

P.S. From the elite point of view I am called a zombie, and from that point of view, I am here to eat a few brains. Of coarse this all assumes the elites are correct, and do not just live in denial of there selfishness and evil. All people have value, and many are waking up. So I am not a zombie, regarless of others labels.

What are you trying to be another Jim Jones?

[Marie]

What are you trying to be another Jim Jones?

I'm begining to wonder if this isn't a new breed of bot or something, notice it really pays no attention to what is said to it.

M_

[clanglee]

An interesting idea man. . . . but. . . um. . . and I mean no offense by this. . . but. . it english your first language? I think(i hope) we are losing something in translation here.

Oh and Welcome!!

[Legion2213]

I may have to offer more correlations.

In Shawn of the dead they go to the Windsor bar for safety. Windsor castle home of the elites.


Hi Redge, welcome to HPothD.

The pub in Shaun of the Dead is "The Winchester", not "The Windsor".

They go there because they see it as a place of safety, not because it is designed like a fortress, but simply because their sad little hum-drum lives evolve around the place and they feel comfortable there.

[Redge777]

Well sounds like I missed it on the bar name, I will have to watch that movie again

I see that I came across a bit to vague or to over the top right off the bat.

the reason I mentioned the bible scripture is because of what it says, and the fact that some secret societies do use old sacred text for information.

2 timothy 2 is about a few things that are also taught in secret societies, including the idea that those that teach false doctrine spread through society like gangrene. However it is only false doctrine from there perspective.

I never meant this to be a religious topic, I was only referencing that because it is used by them. I am however a Christian.

It is possible that the films originally were not based on this philosophy, but the elite picked up on it and adopted it. Note that symbolism is taught in secret orders and fraternities, many writers adopt this and use it.

Heroes the TV show, a few people who realize they have special abilities in secret try and save the world. The book in the show written by the professor is called "genetic activation"

Beyond thunderdome, one guy is master blaster a small smart guy riding on the backs of the ignorant mass. He also is lowered down into a pen where the pigs live to torture him. Mel Gibson rides backwards into the desert on a horse wearing a puppets head as punishment for breaking a deal

Buffy, a few people hunting the undead while the average people don't know what they do.

Lord of the rings, the normal, short hobbits march the ring of power(corruption of evil through greed) to the east under the eye to destroy it.

Children of the corn, the children rise up against the adults.

Matrix people are in a system where they do not know they are slaves and fight to defend that system.

unbreakable - the villain in purple refuses to sell a piece of art where the super heroes are not drawn as exaggerated to a man who wishes to give it to his child.


A definition of terms would be really helpful, unless it is your intention to bewilder the rest of us, in which case most of us will eventually ignore you as a bore. You can only hide behind BS for so long.

Here are some of the symbolism.
commoners- are sheep, zombies, cattle, children
elites- are ranchers adults
flying- is when someone speaks to others and has an audience
monkeys- commoners that are less evolved
pigs- people that wish to join the club but never make it because they don't know about it and are not accepted because they are considered unclean
feeding- giving information
car- living in protection looking through the window at commoners on the street
clown- commoner who thinks he knows something and is laughed at by elite, or used and directed at other sheep
yellow- color of the club
purple- royalty
being invincible- one who bounces back, or never loses hope, like Nelson Mandela
Robot- the working class, note Asimovs three laws of robotics defends a two tier society.
breathing- speaking about issues a person cares about
turtle- Incrementalist faction of the elites, Rothchilds, believes in slow change over time using "Brave New World" model
Bunnies - violent faction of the elite, the neocons, David Rockefeller, believes in "1984" model of control, fear and violence to subdue.
binoculars or sometimes glasses as in "they live" -see the world from a different perspective.

The tripods is a good one also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M4RRuLbB6k

zombie specific
Zombies are uncoordinated- the commoners are unorganized
Zombies are slow - they do not react to things as fast
zombies are attracked to noise- when elites are exposed, the zombies mass
zombies can't climb well- they do not climb the steps of power
zombies have to have brain destroyed to kill- use of propaganda and dumb media
zombies dont breath- they only wail, they complain but do not speak about things.
zombies act on instinct - they go through life living in base emotion and pattern.
zombies cant break down doors - this is common club refrence, even seen some of this here in zombie rules. Breaking down the door of the club is saying they do not have the right nor ability to control who is in the club, or if it even should exist.
zombies are killed from the rooftops far away from an attacker the zombies can not see- elites use steath to tarrget the common people.
zombies don't use tools- they do not use the "Silent weapon for quiet wars". propaganda, secrecy, and other devices.


Here are some video songs that use this symbolism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KL_fgWgK40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9g2szHsoz0


I googled mason zombie monkey If you read them thinking of class warfare and symbolism you can get some meaning.

these are the hits
http://kitta.net/2007/10/28/zombie-stylist/
http://kitta.net/2007/10/28/zombie-stylist/
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/agentrm.htm
http://newscoma.wordpress.com/2007/07/26/zombies-stuart-and-happiness/
http://www.amazon.com/Black-Sheep-Unrated-Nathan-Meister/dp/B000TJ6PB0

these were picked by google search, some may see what I see in some of them. I do not say they all mean something, they are a random sample from google, but notice how quickly sheep, and agents, pop up. This sounds rediculous, I am only saying there is a connection of certain lingo on certain topics. This is taught in certain groups.

I am not affiliated with any group or organization, nor claim to be.

Stargate, guys who wear masonic patches, go to different cultures and teach they are following false gods.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x90/DerekHalfhand/patchesSGbase.jpg

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x90/DerekHalfhand/stargate_sg-1teamemblem.jpg


An interesting idea man. . . . but. . . um. . . and I mean no offence by this. . . but. . it english your first language? I think(i hope) we are losing something in translation here.

Oh and Welcome!!

English as first language, 4th generation scottish heritage. Born and lived in USA my whole life. Although sometimes my typing and grammar is not perfect, I sometimes drop words when typing from free thinking. Not affiliated with any group, I do not believe in secrecy.

Thanks for the welcome :)


:confused:
We're gonna need a bigger boat....

Step out into the river, the water is fine! :)

If you feel something, and yet fight it, that is the cap controlling you, if you break free you will be uncapped.

[clanglee]

Okie Dokie. You lost me again. Perhaps you should try streamlining your arguments a bit. And maybe try (now this is just a suggestion mind you) making sense. :confused:

[DEAD BEAT]

Just found this site, I am going to have to spend some hours reading through the posts to get a feel for it.

I am hoping to find threads that look at the analogy of zombies as people of today.

From the elite view, zombies are commoners that speak what they consider false doctrine and teach other elites to feel and think about what is right, and that all people have value, eating brains in their perspective.

This comes from 2 Timothy 2:17 and the rest of that chapter.

They look at us as just mindless people living in instinct.

Shawn of the dead in the last 5 minutes showed how zombies were used to serve the elite, and considered this OK. Or just kept in a shack where the elites could go and play with them when they wanted.

Any threads with this line of reasoning please post below. Thanks.

Redge777

P.S. From the elite point of view I am called a zombie, and from that point of view, I am here to eat a few brains. Of coarse this all assumes the elites are correct, and do not just live in denial of there selfishness and evil. All people have value, and many are waking up. So I am not a zombie, regarless of others labels.


Just found it huh?

I spent a week pulling my foot out of my asss for not finding it sooner, its one of the best out there for zombie talk!

"Just be watch out for the smart asses"

Cheers and welcome!:D

[Redge777]

Basically the last post on page 1 that I made should sum it up, you may have to read it more then once, if you want to. Many will just disregard it and shuffle on.

If you get my premise of symbolism in media, and the elite/commoner view of this, go read post 2 page 2 in zombie rules thread. You will see what I mean, he even uses some of the symbols I mentioned, doors, turtles etc.

If you still don't see it, ask why the poster answered with Amen, this does not sound like film appreciation, as much as agreeing to the meaning of the 2nd post as I show it, symbolic meaning.

He says, "rule 18 zombies never ever evolve", what does this have to do with the movies. Nothing, Nothing at all.

Think about it. This is the elite/commoner view they believe themselfes more evolved then common people. They claim that. Think on this one point, it will show what I have posted is agreed by a person who openly commented on my post. Think on this. why "less evolved", why. This is because he knows the symbolism.

In the 1990 thread, we see another amen to a post. It says this shows "what not to do if you want to stay alive", a poster then commented with Amen again.

[clanglee]

Ummmmm. . .ok. Sometimes, ususally in fact, a movie is just a movie. While zombie movies are great for social commentary, I don't think they go quite that deep, umm . . .ever. Glad you are getting all of that out of the movies man. enjoy.


. . . . . backs out of the room slowly, making no sudden movements.

[Redge777]

. . . . . backs out of the room slowly, making no sudden movements.

All is good, I believe in love and kindness the teachings of Jesus Christ and I am a pacivist in all things.

Stay awhile, I would love to hear comments on the links to youtube clips or other comments.

[clanglee]

He says, "rule 18 zombies never ever evolve", what does this have to do with the movies. Nothing, Nothing at all.



He meant that zombies don't get smart like in LOTD. Not in a class related sort of way, but like a GAR movie sort of way. They just stay stupid. . and. . oh never mind. Like I said man, I'm glad you got all of that out of the movie, enjoy.

. . . continues backing away. . . .closing door.

[AcesandEights]

Crack is whack, dude. :)

[clanglee]

I'm thinking it's shrooms or acid, payote?

[Danny]

damn.

id jsut liek to point out the constant of film and media in general that no two people see the same thing the same way.

and with that im off again, like zorro, only out of shape and british- wooooo000OOOOOSSH!

[Redge777]

I think the problem is that you may be seeing it backwards. The zombie movies do not teach me how the world works. The writers and influencers of mass media know how the world works then put it in there films in the subtext.

So we don't learn the world from its leaking into pop culture.

We see the hairy toe of the giant, but only those that have fought, or aligned with the giant see it.

So zombie movies do not tell us how the world work, but how the world works makes its way into the zombie, and other films.

Just watch Beyond Thunderdome and apply the symbolism, there is lots more, you can figure that out once you look for it.

Sun worshipers, Neocon, David Rockefeller
Moon worshipers Rothschild, Clinton.

Sound crazy, imagine how weird the world will look if you research this or just see it.

Both are fraternal, believe in the brother system of protecting the elite family. They fight amongst themselves with one rule, secrecy, don't let the commoners know what is going on. I see them as having been shown the kingdom of the worlds, as many are, but they chose to take the offer, and protect their kingdoms with that power.

[Danny]

okay, now youve ,well not lost me, but you do get that this can be applied to anything, like a child dropping an ice cream cone?, your not really argueing a point, more just telling us it is so. You can apply a theatric view to anything if you try, hell thats what most of those pretentious kids that take drama in high school do each week. A few weeks back i saw a student film were a kid talked about a pond in one field and sheep in another being symbolism for moving on after school finishes. and like then , now im just scratching my head in bewilderment , you could switch your ,well not argument really, statment, around and it can be construed to work in exactly the same way but with the opposite meaning.
Films are entertainement, subtext exists, but anything to that point is bordering on propaganda and if a film maker focused on trying to put such a complex ubplot that only people as super smart as yourself could read between the lines to see, why not just make a movie straight up about that instead of a zombie movie to begin with? does george romero have some dark purpose? and who are these "elites"?, are they the bad guys from halo?, because at least to my knowledge no persons life is more "elite" than anothers, some may be more well off, but that doesnt raise the standing of someones value as a human being.

[Redge777]

I agree it is interpretation. To make my claim is ridiculous on the weight of one genre or film, but if you take culture as a whole, and find the most common meaning to symbolism you can find patterns that pass the test of it being a common metaphor in certain circles, or maybe I could say squares.

I do agree you can see things many ways.

And on that note, I think it is a good time to review, that the song and dance is the best way to keep the zombies busy and out of trouble :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMnk7lh9M3o

If, (I say if, out or respect of the fact that everyone has there own opinion) my view is right. If the elite consider us zombies, and just prisoners to a system under control, then I would bet the halls of power shook with laughter at this video.

Note: I am not a Micheal Jackson fan.
This gets complicated, I only contend this is there view, not that it is a correct view, they believe commoners evil, I do not believe that. But I do state that it is their belief.

[clanglee]

Right on!!!! Preach it brother!!

Red, life will suck continually if you continue to search for the subtext in everything. Please, calm down and enjoy a movie for what it is.

And that video is just plain funny!!!!!!

[Redge777]

, but anything to that point is bordering on propaganda and if a film maker focused on trying to put such a complex ubplot that only people as super smart as yourself could read between the lines to see, why not just make a movie straight up about that instead of a zombie movie to begin with? does george romero have some dark purpose? and who are these "elites"?, are they the bad guys from halo?, because at least to my knowledge no persons life is more "elite" than anothers, some may be more well off, but that doesnt raise the standing of someones value as a human being.

Nobody is better then others, they only claim to be and are wrong. They use claims like they are genetically more evolved, they claim to be royal blood, some claim to be blood line of Christ, some claim to be chosen by God, some just claim to be smarter. Note that love can easily equal intelligence when looking at a persons worth, they don't see that.

I am saying this because all people are equal, they put it in films thinking only the smart will see it. (Bloom's taxonomy) I know that is wrong, anyone that thinks about it gets it, most of you will in time, once you start looking for it it only takes time to see it. Some don't want to see it, that is their choice.

I am not super smart. I don't claim to be, and am sure many would agree I am not :)

This is the point, they are not super smart to get it either, they know the symbols, and more importantly they know how their system works, so it easily layers over the subtext. If you see the world from their point of view it becomes obvious.

To be more specific, this is called broad range targeted messaging. For instance when Bush speaks using religious passages, he speaks to people who have a background in that religion. When a film puts in certain symbols it speaks to people that know those symbols, those symbols are taught in certain groups.

Note that my method is in line with the zombie metaphor. I do not use there tools of deception or stealth, I just charge at where ever I see them, I fit this view of theirs. However I see deception as wrong, where they do not. They incorrectly call people who just 'speak' what they see, as dumb, when a person choose not to use tools of deception, or judgement, then a person is just a commoner, a zombie..

Why not make a movie that really shows it? Well in Unbreakable the villain dressed in purple told us when a guy wanted to buy the non exaggerated art picture for his son. "This is art it is not meant for children" All you have to know is the child/adult metaphor for commoner/elite. and that an exaggerated character is layers. That is why, because if they actually put it in a form we would understand, To quote former royalty, the commoners would revolt in a day, if they really knew what we were up to.

[clanglee]

Red, down that path lies madness. What size tin-foil hat you you wear? Pull up man, pull up!!!

I'm done with this

. . . . . . backs out of the room, closes the door, locks it, and eats the key.

[Redge777]

Red, life will suck continually if you continue to search for the subtext in everything. Please, calm down and enjoy a movie for what it is.

I could just as easily say, why not lose the shackles, stop watching the shadows dance on the wall, and come out of Plato's cave. But would you? I actually think you have, but what of the others?


Red, down that path lies madness. What size tin-foil hat you you wear? Pull up man, pull up!!!

I'm done with this

. . . . . . backs out of the room, closes the door, locks it, and eats the key.

The key the key, another symbol, I am not kidding, look for it it is everywhere. Think about it, he used it, nice duality in phrasing and symbolism.

Interesting you mention madness, when one incorporates the spiritual into the world of the real, and understands the connectivity in things, it is often referred to as your head exploding. See end of Ludacris' video "Get Back". Here is a head exploder, non linear time, and a conspiracy without any knowledge about each other among the individuals involved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udPiGYkhF18 please do not take this as any indications of my current feelings, although the song is good.

Ok on a less joking note about things.


Read this page of this thread. An actor in an interview supports my interpretation. Please read it, and comment if you see it as wrong or right.

http://forum.homepageofthedead.com/showthread.php?t=8704&page=5

[Trin]

Where's Philly_SWAT when you need him?

... and welcome.

[Yojimbo]

Dude, I do not know if it is your intention, but you are sort of coming off as if you are preaching to us. You might not be a Moonie, or a Jehovah's Witness, or a Scientologist for that matter, but if you are going to use these forums as a platform to lecture everyone about your world view and then folks are going to start to ignore you much like they would a dude carrying a suitcase full of Watchtower, or one of those other well meaning dudes that force themselves on people in order to save their souls. While the core intention may be good, generally people shy away from people who incessantly proselytize.

This is not a conspiracy forum. This is a forum to discuss the films of GAR, zombie films, etc. While there are other forums here that touch on subjects outside of the zombie world, you will only ostracize people if you try to convert them.

You come off as an intelligent person, and I think that you have some interesting things to say. I am glad to speak with you here, as I am glad to converse with all zombie heads. Perhaps you should just lighten up a little and enjoy the zombies.

[Relic]

pacifist, not "pacifvist." Those I guess it doesn't matter what spelling you use as long as you play by the same rules.

[bassman]

Okay....who let the Loonies out?:confused:

[GhostWolf]

Looking for symbolisim in everything will lead you on a steady downward spiral to madness, depression, and lots of expensive medication.

While it may be true that there are many things which could be 'seen' by looking at things through you're admittedly 'special' viewpoint... you'd be seeing only what you wanted to see. Masonic symbols in Stargate... elites vrs. the masses... I'm not even going to begin to argue with your 'christian' viewpoints, as religious debates are futile.

You need to find a different site for these kinds of topics. This place is designed for one thing and one thing only, Discussion of fiction, specifically fiction revolving around GAR's movies, and zombies in general. With as much respect as i can muster , I'm asking you to cease your psycho babel.

[Marie]

Yea, blame it on my blonde hair if you will, but this is rapidly getting boring. I'm not playing anymore.

M_

[DeadJonas190]

Welcome to the boards, but in Shaun they go to the Winchester named so for the Winchester Rifle above the bar. Either way, welcome to the boards, grab whatever you like to drink be it water, soda or an alcholic beverage and relax with us a bit.

[bassman]

Welcome to the boards, but in Shaun they go to the Winchester named so for the Winchester Rifle above the bar. Either way, welcome to the boards, grab whatever you like to drink be it water, soda or an alcholic beverage and relax with us a bit.

Don't offer him booze, man! He's already talking jibberish.:lol:

[clanglee]

:lol::lol::lol:

[major jay]

Yea, blame it on my blonde hair if you will, but this is rapidly getting boring. I'm not playing anymore.

M_

Easy Marie. Don't use the gun.:)

[Danny]

this is getting suspiciously into "did you know bush was part of skull and bones" type stuff now.

*picks up chair, smashes out window runs to the edge, stops, steals neils VCR, then jumps out and runs down the road and out of sight*

[SRP76]

*picks up chair, smashes out window runs to the edge, stops, steals neils VCR, then jumps out and runs down the road and out of sight*

*turns the corner at he end of the block, then suddenly gets knocked to the ground. Feels a wire quickly wrap around his ankles, and, seconds later, is hanging upside-down 20 stories above the street below. Mysterious hands snatch the VCR, and a voice:

Not in my town, not ever, boy.

The flapping of leather in the wind, then silence*

....hellsing's first meeting with the Batman.:D

[wyvern1096]

I could just as easily say, why not lose the shackles, stop watching the shadows dance on the wall, and come out of Plato's cave. But would you? I actually think you have, but what of the others?
The key the key, another symbol, I am not kidding, look for it it is everywhere. Think about it, he used it, nice duality in phrasing and symbolism.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff140/confused1096/Cats/128347104606875000donttalktome.jpg

[Danny]

*turns the corner at he end of the block, then suddenly gets knocked to the ground. Feels a wire quickly wrap around his ankles, and, seconds later, is hanging upside-down 20 stories above the street below. Mysterious hands snatch the VCR, and a voice:

Not in my town, not ever, boy.

The flapping of leather in the wind, then silence*

....hellsing's first meeting with the Batman.:D

and theres my supervillain origin as "the vcr stealer"!!:lol:, of course they are obsolete now, so my stint in supervillainy didnt last long.

[Redge777]

Dude, I do not know if it is your intention, but you are sort of coming off as if you are preaching to us. ... if you are going to use these forums as a platform to lecture everyone about your world view and then folks are going to start to ignore you much like they would a dude carrying a suitcase full of Watchtower, or one of those other well meaning dudes that force themselves on people in order to save their souls. While the core intention may be good, generally people shy away from people who incessantly proselytize.
I do come off as lecturing, but that is because of different view points. If we had the same viewpoint I would be discussing, people can believe as they chose(no skin off my back(pun :) )) I am not trying to convert anyone, however I mention religion, it is a part of me, but what I brought up is not an attempt to promote a religious viewpoint.



This is not a conspiracy forum. This is a forum to discuss the films of GAR, zombie films, etc. While there are other forums here that touch on subjects outside of the zombie world, you will only ostracize people if you try to convert them.
However, if by convert you mean expose a different world view, then I am guilty of that, I do have that intent and agenda, however it is not conspiracy related. Go see the interview with the actor in other thread, it is only an expansion of what he said.


I think that you have some interesting things to say. I am glad to speak with you here, as I am glad to converse with all zombie heads. Perhaps you should just lighten up a little and enjoy the zombies.
I understand that my view point can be abrasive, the majority of it I keep in this thread to not derail other threads, however it is difficult to not speak of something once it is clear.

If my analogy is incorrect is there a better one that fits into story of the film that I can learn of from you guys?


Looking for symbolisim in everything will lead you on a steady downward spiral to madness, depression, and lots of expensive medication.
While it may be true that there are many things which could be 'seen' by looking at things through you're admittedly 'special' viewpoint... you'd be seeing only what you wanted to see. Masonic symbols in Stargate... elites vrs. the masses... I'm not even going to begin to argue with your 'christian' viewpoints, as religious debates are futile.

You need to find a different site for these kinds of topics. This place is designed for one thing and one thing only, Discussion of fiction, specifically fiction revolving around GAR's movies, and zombies in general. With as much respect as i can muster , I'm asking you to cease your psycho babel.

You are doing far more then asking me to cease discussing this world view regarding the different zombie films.

You also say that I am only seeing because I want to the similarity between symbols like in SG1 anyone want to vote on how close those images are. You also say I see an elite/commoner situation, does anyone think the powerful do not run the US, if not the world. You state it as if I am wrong, yet it is so plain in both the images posted and people experiance.

Sometimes the easiest way to disregard an point of view is to call it crazy, what part is not accurate, I am glad I got the winchester part corrected, is there other parts of my world view that do not hold up to peoples person experiances?

You also state I must be, or will be crazy by seeing it. by even calling my comments psycho babel. However it matches the interview with an actual actor of the film, how much more related to the movie can I get. To speak of meaning in fiction is part of the topic of that fiction. I do agree a certain background or depth is needed so other topics must be added to support, but it is certainly relevant to any discussion on zombie films.

[Skippy911sc]

Thats right Red is full of crap...now everyone go to sleep

sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep

[Mike70]

is anyone else finding it hard to take someone serious who considers bunnies as the symbol of the violent faction of elites?


"welcome to my underground lair."

[Redge777]

is anyone else finding it hard to take someone serious who considers bunnies as the symbol of the violent faction of elites?
"welcome to my underground lair."

There cute and fuzzy in their speeches, but they have sharp pointy vampiric teeth!

I guess you never saw Monty python and the holy grail. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg

But on a side note relax, and read this, a note from some other elites :) or just a funny story

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/single_bee_sends_gathering_of

[Mike70]

riiiight. okay.

i think you might be the one with the need to relax.

is everyone who doesn't agree with you an elite? although in your world view i would, more than likely, fit into that category. but anyway, what is it that makes someone an elite?

[Redge777]

riiiight. okay.

i think you might be the one with the need to relax.

is everyone who doesn't agree with you an elite? although in your world view i would, more than likely, fit into that category. but anyway, what is it that makes someone an elite?


Good question, I don't know, I only contend that many writers write of these things. I would guess they each have their own definitions. I doubt I would agree with many of them. But nobody has to agree, I only contend that people do write about these things with a consistent style across many different types of shows and films.

If I had to define elite, I would say someone who believes they have more value then another group that is larger in numbers but weaker in power, and a group that does not carry an equal 'load to resource usage' as others. But that's just off the top of my head, I don't think about it much.

Honestly there existence is up to each to decide, I only claim that many write about it.


is everyone who doesn't agree with you an elite?
This is almost backwards, most of the people in power agree with me when we discuss what systems are in place, and how it is seeded into culture. They however disagree on the implementation and value of programs and priorities of society.

So it depends on which parts you mean by disagree and why.

[major jay]

http://hometown.aol.com/geinster/NTB.html

Here's another viewpoint, I found through wikipedia, on the meaning of Romero's living dead movies. Like yours it philisophical so I thought you might enjoy it.

[GhostWolf]

I'm sorry, i cant take anyone who says that this http://www.syti.net/GB/SilentWeaponsGB.html load of well thought out fiction is authentic or "a must read article" seriously.

[Danny]

yeah i noticed that, its been about a eyar since our last "the truth is out there" member came to enlighten us sheep.:lol:

[CapnRhodes]

Just found this site, I am going to have to spend some hours reading through the posts to get a feel for it.

I am hoping to find threads that look at the analogy of zombies as people of today.

From the elite view, zombies are commoners that speak what they consider false doctrine and teach other elites to feel and think about what is right, and that all people have value, eating brains in their perspective.

This comes from 2 Timothy 2:17 and the rest of that chapter.

They look at us as just mindless people living in instinct.

Shawn of the dead in the last 5 minutes showed how zombies were used to serve the elite, and considered this OK. Or just kept in a shack where the elites could go and play with them when they wanted.

Any threads with this line of reasoning please post below. Thanks.

Redge777

P.S. From the elite point of view I am called a zombie, and from that point of view, I am here to eat a few brains. Of coarse this all assumes the elites are correct, and do not just live in denial of there selfishness and evil. All people have value, and many are waking up. So I am not a zombie, regarless of others labels.


Welcome to the boards

[Redge777]

I'm sorry, i cant take anyone who says that this http://www.syti.net/GB/SilentWeaponsGB.html load of well thought out fiction is authentic or "a must read article" seriously.

Its not just that article, it is this thread. The document not being real is discussed, however its points match up, and the thread has many well documented congresional documents and released FBI and CIA files that explain what went on.

you did not google the terms in my sig, or you chose to spin the info by only including what sparked the thread, not the info in the thread.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread305679/pg1

the article was the starting point, there is lots of info there.

If you comment about my signature, you might want to read the thread it refers to.

[clanglee]

. . . . .Opens the door a crack

Ok. . .I have to admit that is pretty interesting stuff. But. . . . It does not belong on this site, or at least on the Living Dead Forums. Take it to the Living Forums.

. . . Slams the door and relocks it quickly.

[Redge777]

http://hometown.aol.com/geinster/NTB.html

Here's another viewpoint, I found through wikipedia, on the meaning of Romero's living dead movies. Like yours it philisophical so I thought you might enjoy it.


I did enjoy it, very much, and I believe it is exactly right from a certain perception. The specific view point I see this hinging on comes from this statement.

This zombie invasion is an attack on the metaphysical foundations upon which all societies rest

This assumes the zombies are tearing down the foundation and not a cancer.

But I really like it and leaning on my nihilism crutch to divine what parts are real to me I will comment on it.

The motivation to act may not be because of a need to understand the world, it may be a result of understanding a part of it and then choosing that part to act against as ones journey. I see this as possibly the active part. Although I agree the reason to act is due to a persons perception of the world and how they project their thoughts into the presumed actions of others. For this reason, I chose to declare my enemy as secrecy, right or wrong, it is the only enemy I see that can keep me from judging others.

I do not claim the elite or commoners wrong, I only ask them to be honest and open with me. It is possible, agendas I think are wrong are actually correct, because I only know what I think is true(a bit nihilistic) So to try and change a system is some false claim of knowing more, or an elitism. I only ask that all ideas and information be available to all, so the communal intelligence and goodness of man will decide the coarse we take. Furthermore I see a trend in many groups to use secrecy and this leads to the need to dumb down others, and corruption. This is a common effect of secrecy regardless of who chooses to hold secrets.

The courage of the Active nihilism is agreed, yet courage can be shown by one doing wrong or right, so it alone can not be a moral driving force.

My anchor, by choice, is the love I am shown by my savior Jesus Christ. I know the trap of believing in the universe as a self created world, one where truth and lie are only perception, passive nihilism, I however do not lean to the perfection of geometry and science, I lean to the perfection of love and the knowledge of my own imperfection in all things.

[Yojimbo]

Something is sucking the fun out of what used to be a very fun website.

[Redge777]

Another zombie societal refrence can be found in this video. Although I do not agree with the sentiment of the clip, and consider division it suggest to be a bad thing, it does use the refrence to zombies also, last 30 seconds

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5087528100280202739

[Shadowofthedead]

dude are you of the mormon faith? cuz if you are then i know you arent gonna shut up. and your name isnt derek rumpler is it? cuz he was the mormon guy i knew who wouldnt shut up. i really didnt like that guy.

[ProfessorChaos]

"joseph smith was called a prophet.....

dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.....

he started the mormon religion....

dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb..."

if you've not seen the south park episode titled "all about mormons", you should definitely check it out....talk about enlightenment.

6fbzoNT7iKY

[jim102016]

"joseph smith was called a prophet.....

dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.....

he started the mormon religion....

dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb..."

if you've not seen the south park episode titled "all about mormons", you should definitely check it out....talk about enlightenment.

6fbzoNT7iKY

I saw that episode, pissed myself hilarious.


For two weeks we've been doing a pretty good job of enforcing the "ignoring embargo", so lets all go back to that policy.

[strayrider]

I've only had time to briefly skim the "Silent Weapon" document. It reminds me of the far right propaganda that people used to hand out at pro-gun rallies in the mid to late 90s. I've also seen tables full of similar documents for sale at gun shows.

Redge, are you a friend of Mark Koernke and the Militia of Michigan?

:elol:

-stray-

ps -- fascinating topic and discussion. Feel free to post all you wish (just keep it Dead related in this particular forum if'n you please ... there are other forums for general discussion, after all.)

[Redge777]

dude are you of the mormon faith? cuz if you are then i know you arent gonna shut up. and your name isnt derek rumpler is it? cuz he was the mormon guy i knew who wouldnt shut up. i really didnt like that guy.

Why in the world would you want me to shut up? nobody has to read it, anyone can disagree or agree, how could the expression of an idea, and offering examples to support it, make you angry, or wish me to stop posting in the one welcome thread I started?

Nope not a Mormon, I don't know much about them. However I don't think I understand why it would matter.

I am not advocating my point of view, although my point of view does come through in my comments. I am only saying the zombie films have a subtext and offer a possible meaning to that. Note that others must think the same thing since they use the zombie metaphor in areas that really only can be seen as a reference to zombies actually being some group of real humans.

People can believe what they want on society and how they view it, for that matter they can decide who they are and where they fit in. We all get to pick what we believe.

I see this as upper class calling lower class zombies, but it can also be

-Those who 'think' calling those who 'do not think but act in violence' zombies,
-Those in 'spiritual darkness teaching false doctrine' are zombies
-Or it can be (if the person calling others zombies was correct) a claim of being right while others are wrong and 'dead in sin'.

All of these claim an elitism. If any group calls another zombies, they are stereotyping and labeling to lower the possibility of empathy building of individuals in the target group. This includes empathy building by people in their own group. I have seen many past uses of this techniques with labels such as Rats, various racial epithets, or even the words peasants, or elites. It is very old technique and used whenever a group is separated with a exaggerated label. A label caries emotion, and allows the feelings to attach to the group instead of having to rethink the logic behind why the people are different, or if they really are...

If others see any group as zombies, then those labeled as 'Zombies' will be thought of as having less value. So if a group is using that label in its symbolism it should be shown, if only to reveal the bias and lack of justice that follows it.

There may be many meanings to the zombie references, I have pointed out a few examples that I believe are used by the self proclaimed elite, many of them also claim a spiritual elitism(some claim special understanding or guidance) and so it fits on many levels, from their perspective. Or more like from my perspective of their perspective.


I've only had time to briefly skim the "Silent Weapon" document. It reminds me of the far right propaganda that people used to hand out at pro-gun rallies in the mid to late 90s. I've also seen tables full of similar documents for sale at gun shows.

Redge, are you a friend of Mark Koernke and the Militia of Michigan?

:elol:

-stray-

ps -- fascinating topic and discussion. Feel free to post all you wish (just keep it Dead related in this particular forum if'n you please ... there are other forums for general discussion, after all.)

I only brought up silent wars, well because I always do. The key is the thread on AboveTopSecret that actually finds the historical support that backs up the claims in the document. The document itself has no acceptable chain of custody, and for the most part is not considered real. But what it says matches the activities of that exact year. It defines an era the 53-54 revolution that ushered in new methods of societal controls that if seen in their totality really shows the criminality of the few and their acts against us the many.

As far as a friend of that guy you mentioned. As you noticed by most replies, my comments leave me quite friendless :) But thanks for the nice comment from you.

No I don't know him, nor do I know anyone belonging to any organization, nor do I belong to any organization, or even a group. Belonging to a group incorporates a sudo responsibility and advocacy of group ideals, and to some extent responsibility for ideals of members of the group. I would not want others to be responsible for my ideals, and do not accept responsibility for others ideals by incorporating myself as part of their agenda, what ever that might be.

There is a technique used. Guilt by association. If a person is targeted but not guilty, an individual invites them into a group that is shown as a good societal organization. Then others unknown join group, do bad, then the original person is labeled with that action, by association. It is also a very old technique. See provocateurs for more info on it. I fly solo without air traffic control. :)

If these girls were in zombie paint it would be so perfect, but hey its still a good song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9J9rTZJBmw

[Graebel]

wow:eek:

[Redge777]

wow:eek:


I assume the 'wow' comes from the video at the end not from the post :)

Wow indeed :)

[Trin]

No I don't know him, nor do I know anyone belonging to any organization, nor do I belong to any organization, or even a group. Belonging to a group incorporates a sudo responsibility and advocacy of group ideals, and to some extent responsibility for ideals of members of the group. I would not want others to be responsible for my ideals, and do not accept responsibility for others ideals by incorporating myself as part of their agenda, what ever that might be.You belong to this forum. The assumption here is that you are a GAR fan and thus like-minded to the other members. You have already shouldered the responsibility that others here might incorporate your ideals into their agenda, or that you might be swayed to incorporate ours into yours, based on that association.

The only real way to protect yourself and us would be to disassociate yourself from this group.

[Graebel]

I assume the 'wow' comes from the video at the end not from the post :)

Wow indeed :)

Sorry, didn't watch the video. Just kinda read through all the posts and .......

[clanglee]

People please. Why start this up again?

[Redge777]

You belong to this forum. The assumption here is that you are a GAR fan and thus like-minded to the other members. You have already shouldered the responsibility that others here might incorporate your ideals into their agenda, or that you might be swayed to incorporate ours into yours, based on that association.

The only real way to protect yourself and us would be to disassociate yourself from this group.


Well said, but I do not need to protect myself. The point is I do not wish to be seen as having an advocacy point of view other then my personal thoughts I wish to share with those that care to read them. As far as belonging to this group, well I will just quote those who ask me to leave :)

I understand that any interaction can be claimed as being part of a group. I guess from that stance me having no groups is not true. But I do not advocate nor simply accept platforms of organizations.

Maybe my comment was meant to let anyone who does read my comments know I do not speak for others, including those in GAR. Maybe it was an overall comment on the mechanism of assigned responsibility that is unjust and leads to stereotyping. Don't know.

[Yojimbo]

People please. Why start this up again?

That ignore function is getting mighty tempting.

[Redge777]

That ignore function is getting mighty tempting.

Don't hold back on my account, I wont be offended. Although I enjoy your responces, and would assume there number would go down after an ignore.

[Yojimbo]

Certainly, you have the right to think as you wish and I have no desire to attempt to change your world views.

Truth be told, I mean no offense, but your subject matter and prosylethizing is rather repetative- like hearing the same song over and over and over again - and has little to do with GAR or zombie films.

I realize that you do not care if people put you on ignore, or if people become annoyed with you. With apologies, it almost seems as if this is what you seek in using these threads and pages as your personal soapbox, and frankly it seems that you actually want folks to become annoyed and put you on ignore. In my opinion, this is truly a shame because you seem to have interesting points of view and you certainly have something to say and in spite of these positives you bring some negative traits that inevitably turn folks off. I believe that without those negatives constantly coming to the forefront you could be a very interesting zombie fan and contribute some very cool posts.

I do appreciate your courtesy in understanding that for some of us your constant tirade is not what we visit these posts for.

[major jay]

Yeah relax. We're not hard to get along with.

[Redge777]

Certainly, you have the right to think as you wish and I have no desire to attempt to change your world views.

Truth be told, I mean no offense, but your subject matter and prosylethizing is rather repetative- like hearing the same song over and over and over again - and has little to do with GAR or zombie films.

If it is shown to be a possible subtext to zombie films it has everything to do with it. When I see new social references to zombies, like the prisoners dancing or the red neck guys I post it to support that the original motifs from the zombie films are a part of our culture.


I realize that you do not care if people put you on ignore, or if people become annoyed with you.

Why or how could I annoy someone, if I am so wrong, would not I simply be laughed at or called crazy, note that except for first couple days all my post here are in this thread and this thread alone.


With apologies, it almost seems as if this is what you seek in using these threads and pages as your personal soapbox, and frankly it seems that you actually want folks to become annoyed and put you on ignore.

I do not want to be on ignore, but if I annoy someone I agree they should consider it, I do not want others annoyed, nor should anyone have to think on what I say if they do not want to.


In my opinion, this is truly a shame because you seem to have interesting points of view and you certainly have something to say and in spite of these positives you bring some negative traits that inevitably turn folks off. I believe that without those negatives constantly coming to the forefront you could be a very interesting zombie fan and contribute some very cool posts.

Thank you for your thoughts, I appreciate your comments and will look over my post to see where I have been impolite without cause or for some self gratification that goes against how I believe people should act.

I understand some do not want to hear any of this, that is the reason I am not offended nor would want to stop someone from ignoring me if they feel they need to. However when some comment, asking others to ignore, or not respond, I find it odd, is not trying to stop comments on a point of view the same as advocating one?

[kortick]

wow how could I have missed out on all this?

this is too good to be true.
you could well be employing the
very word in my signature.


but, you spoke of nihilism
do you consider yourself a nihilist?
if so in which fashion?

1. total rejection of established laws and institutions.
2. anarchy, terrorism, or other revolutionary activity.
3. total and absolute destructiveness, esp. toward the world at large and including oneself: the power-mad nihilism that marked Hitler's last years.
4. Philosophy. an extreme form of skepticism: the denial of all real existence or the possibility of an objective basis for truth.
5. the principle holding that existing social and political institutions must be destroyed in order to clear the way for a new state of society and employing extreme measures, including terrorism and assassination.
6. annihilation of the self, or the individual consciousness, esp. as an aspect of mystical experience.

I'm not quite sure what to make of your theories
I see a mixture of many things, maybe too many
it has the same effect on your brain as
the noise of being in gunfight in a bell factory

im not dismissing everything you are saying
or are you asking?

bassman you get an extra scoop of ice cream on your cake for the line
"were gonna need a bigger boat" lol lol lol lol lol lol
and red i take it you dont what that reference is to.

[Redge777]

Reply to above post

4 is the only one I come close to, so on the post about active nihilism I agree because of my molding of my perception based on avenues of thought that are choice and less based on accepted reality.

I do not believe in violence of any kind, I believe that when one fights evil with evil, they do not fight them they join them. That includes all the trappings of evil. Greed, violence, dishonesty, selfishness, lack of modesty. etc. I do fail at times, but I try to avoid these things.

So all the stuff about new government, student replacing the teacher, and absurd notions of terrorism or revolution are out.

Note that my only contention, and real motivated actions is to attempt to reveal secrets I believe others hold, that are used in control of others. While doing this I try and learn and listen, making it a personally rewarding journey. To believe anything should change, says that I must know a better replacement, that is beyond arrogant and blatantly false. So I can not advocate the replacement of anything, but I can try and expose a liar or someone that keeps secrets for there own gain.

If there are no secrets, then the communal good of society will have the information and wisdom from the power of millions of thinkers to do what is good and right. This hinges on my belief that people are more good then bad. With secrets a few do what they want for the good of those that hold the secrets, usually at the cost of the rest.

That's a short answer, but ask more if you are curious. I actually have pondered various responses to the post that tried to tie me to extremist group. I looked up the guy on google, and realized it would be pages of how people can attach through association motives or thoughts that are not in the text. Even though a single idea may be shared, and correct, that does not make all ideas in different groups shared. This fails during emotional surface level thought, so the one post by the guy about right wing literature, effectively changes the perception others have of me completely, even though it is built outside of my comments. False association is very interesting topic, but this is all I think that needs to be said to break that false link of ideals.

Boat reference is jaws, sharks are common reference of perceived attackers, sorta been replacing the bears, but they are distinctly different. Silent probably old and perfect as far as evolutionary, and all you see is a little fin till its to late. However I am not a shark. Heard submarine used as replacement for this a couple times but that requires context.

Heroes, had a shark on the TV as the youngster was being convinced to help the bad guy. There are many others I don't remember right now. I accept this can easily be meme.

If my comments on the zombies being a common metaphor in society are sophistry, then they should be easily proven wrong, but nobody has commented on their consistent use as a subset of society. Although I do believe they are used in different ways by different people.

My choice of the Pat Benatar clip is sophistry, I am not proving the zombie connection at all. However they fit my view of how zombies are seen, so it is only my perception, and maybe their dress and dance :) I tried to qualify this.

Zombies as a metaphor for society, specifically as seen by the self proclaimed elite, that use this to avoid empathy development. This is my main point, the rest is rambling.


the noise of being in gunfight in a bell factory
Yet in my self created perception they are an orchestra of perfectly timed music. Making one shift his attention from the beautiful music to how random individuals acting on their own, some with good, others with bad desires and actions, can be so in sync in the accidental creation of music.

You can skip all this, it is why I see that my comments sometimes create the effect you mentioned. And for no other reason but boredom and seeing my own text I would like to expand on my last bell paragraph

I start by saying "yet in my self created perception." This says directly it is not real, yet what is real, I chose it to be, so what I say next means nothing unless you jump on board the short bus and ride to the next comment.

Now prepared, the presumed random sounds of your comment are given order. This is outside of cause and event normal flow. This is the impossible. to accept it you must also accept that the gunfight really is not random, yet that is the general perception. This leads to the rest, the possibility that design is less then random and events can proceed cause. Basically the cause was wrong, it is created to explain an event by our brains and is not real in any fashion except our best perception of the creation of an event. So if the self created cause is shifted, since it never had any real value but perspective, and a new perspective reorders it in a new form, suddenly the music can be explained, but it took the seeing of the timed event to stimulate this new form of thought.

The comment on good and bad highlight the struggle of evil and good, that orchestrates these events, the new real cause of synchronicity. And the 'accident' shows the influence comes from outside of the gunfighters.

I have read zero books on philosophy or spirituality except the bible, only very little when people give me short articles that are close to what I say. So it really is not meant to make sence. ding ding twang :)

[kortick]

ok I think I have the basic idea of your words

its true that you have many ideas mixed together
so its hard to figure out which topic you are
asking about or telling about.

too many for me to address one by one
and here isnt the forum to discuss some of
the theories put forth this is the zombie forum
so i will keep my lines of thought to the zombie aspect
of your questions

are you saying or asking that you think zombies
are symbolic of a certian class struggle?
Romero made it very well known he was making a
social commentary, beyond a typical horror flick
but not in the way you describe.

Are you asking this because you are writing a paper
or some kind of work or is it a mental exercise
to prove or disprove certian possibilities you have noticed?

what led you to the zombie film genre as a symbol
of these theories as opposed to other films?

as a side note, I agree with much of what you say
such as evil cant fight evil.
but the true natural world is beyond such concepts of
good and evil. It is not evil when a tiger kills a innocent baby deer.
the concepts of good and evil dont apply.

I am not writing you off as a looney. You just are throwing
too much info at once at people. I am willing to explore
some of what you are saying.
but since this is the zombie forum lets stay with that topic.

[Redge777]

ok I think I have the basic idea of your words

its true that you have many ideas mixed together
so its hard to figure out which topic you are
asking about or telling about.
too many for me to address one by one
and here isnt the forum to discuss some of
the theories put forth this is the zombie forum
so i will keep my lines of thought to the zombie aspect
of your questions
agreed


are you saying or asking that you think zombies
are symbolic of a certain class struggle?
Romero made it very well known he was making a
social commentary, beyond a typical horror flick
but not in the way you describe.

I actually make a two tier statement. First I see the zombies as those in violence and pattern, not alive, furthermore they are those in false doctrine, the 2tim2 reference. I would say they do not need to be class. But then the elites got a hold of it, and with their perspective they created the next tier.

Elites think they have the spiritual answers (most religions do) but this gives them the living, while the zombies are dead. Mostly this leans into some secret society doctrine that claims there logic is better. (Resisting drift here)

Elites believe they are more grounded, logical, not under the sways of emotion. They are more evolved, not just living in the pattern of the zombies. They also don't live in working patterns like us, as slaves doing and believing what we are told to think.

Elites believe they are alive we are dead because we don't know the secrets of their doctrine. Nor would we be willing or able to understand it. This falls apart because not agreeing with there doctrine to them is not understanding it.

That is the general premise.

Now it gets really complicated here, because we have evolving symbolism. It is not like first movie it was all there, it was like people grabbed it and ran with it adding their own twists. Early on, I would say the author did not make the elites the living ones, as much as the elites themselves claimed they were. But by Shawn of the dead, they were elites. Listen to background TV announcer and music, little clues there.

The one in the bunker, the good guys were the guys in the trailer, but they either took a nechian approach by opening the gate for the zombies, or a Plato approach of returning to the slaves in the cave(zombies) and then getting torn up by them.

The motorcycle gang is even more obvious with the different factions of elites. The violent ones lead to the downfall of all elites. I just can't stop seeing this as a comment on how motorcycle gang mentality of empire, woke all the zombies up, (college kids), and started a huge mess for the incrementalist within the elites. Not to mention Hells Angels, actively supported the Nixon War movement, a perfect fit, but a stretch.

I see both of these as the comment between the two factions of ruling elite, incrementalist, and the violent fear ones.

So we have a few zombie films, then we have people taking the symbolism as there own and running with it. Now today, I run into many people that wink and a smile use it. The onion article is a good example.

They now build on the all the stuff about uncoordinated, not thinking, going after any living person, eating brain, sniping from a distance. all of those things can easily be given the elitist view.

Do the films do this? Is this the writers meaning, This is much harder, but I show the incorporation by the elites.

BW original, doubtful,

Bunker one, possibly, again we have factions in the elites fighting leading to breakdown and the commoners(zombies overrunning them all) army as violent, hippy as incrementalist. They even show how they are using the song to keep the zombies in line, this is propaganda, the song and dance of control.

Shopping mall while some elites got everything free and partied, the violent elites went for a grab, and let the zombies in. just like to much greed woke commoners during that era

Shawn of the dead, background TV, songs, and last 5 minutes. Elites love to keep us zombies around to play games with, and push the carts at the stores.



or some kind of work or is it a mental exercise
to prove or disprove certain possibilities you have noticed?

It just seems correct. so these two.


what led you to the zombie film genre as a symbol
of these theories as opposed to other films?

Got to chuckle here, you should read my Buffy the Vampire Slayer musical episode piece
How about signs
Sixth sense
Planet of the apes
It is not just the zombie films



as a side note, I agree with much of what you say
such as evil cant fight evil.
but the true natural world is beyond such concepts of
good and evil. It is not evil when a tiger kills a innocent baby deer.
the concepts of good and evil don't apply.

but I do not accept the natural world for my laws, and will not limit myself to accept the constraints of it.

Natural law opens a can of worms.

If we accept natural law, then the gloves come off. This leads to an advocacy for survival of the fittest, as defined by the ones that are best able to destroy others. Since however 'fit' they are, there order becomes the de facto definition of fittest. Since they chose who lives and dies.

And in zombie movies, the zombies are fittest, even though they lack many characteristics of superiority, there fitness is due to aggression, and infection rates.

This is the fear of the elite that there human qualities not shared by the masses will be destroyed(however many of those qualities, while a bit artistic, lack much compassion and therefore there claim to elitism can be suspect. It is based on there definition of what qualities are important.)

Just like zombies multiply better the commoners are replicators, or breeders, and one of the fears of the elites is the terrible population ratio when compared to there self proclaimed better bloodlines.

That's why the zombies are everywhere.

The other thing is how a person can be changed from a living to a zombie.
This is so key. In Shawn just as he changed the uncle showed compassion. Same with the mother. I contend that zombiefication is rejection of the natural law, and belief in a higher spiritual law where all people have equal value. No longer could a man act like a lion with a deer(another person).

My whole argument really boils down to what happens when a person is bit. What makes them no longer part of group A and now part of group B.

Here is the problem, if it was an evil or badness that turned living into zombies then the zombies should attack other zombies. The bite does one thing, it make a previous living attack other livings. This means it must change the persons thoughts of the value of a living person in group A. The perspective of the value goes way down. Conscience or awakening is the only way I can make sense of this. Greed or Jealousy would work, but the zombies show no bad feelings to their own group, none at all. And from the zombie perspective, a bite is a good thing, just like all those people converting others to care think.



I am not writing you off as a looney. You just are throwing
too much info at once at people. I am willing to explore
some of what you are saying.
but since this is the zombie forum lets stay with that topic.
you are correct. I sortof shotgun the info out there, thinking if someone interested they may have a similiar set of meme or symbols and see something the same way, or alter my ideas.

Basically the construct I use is so large that the background takes to much time to ever really lay it out, so it is really hard to keep it simple. Its not very linear. On a side note, I can effect meme and therefore make the symbolism I think real, appear. Crap I did 35 pages on one buffy episode, just to try and not miss any possible things. Even though I know 70% is suspect due to over symbolizing.

On the topic of I am Legend,

I have not seen it, but I know it will be the same zombie story, furthermore, the clip also shows a lion taking out a deer, as Will watches but does not shoot, posibly adding weight that natural law is what the living see. (from elite perspective)

The old omega man had a religious like organization led by Peter Cellers again the zombies here, from elite perspective do not know the dogma of the elite.

As with zombie films, it is a virus, and is everywhere.

[mista_mo]

I ****ing love you Kortick, your way of typing out sentances is simply pornographic.


Y HELLO THAR REDGE, EYE C U'VE METT EVRY1 BUTT MEH.
WAT DO U THNK OF ATHIESM???!11!!?!?!

sorry, I am currently watching a repetitive flash movie a women launching a banana out of her ass into anouther girls mouth, played too the tune of hollaback girl by Gwen Stefani.

Did you hear that Captain America was killed by an assassin while on his way to his trial??? :( :( :( :(

mai heeru r gon!

[ProfessorChaos]

what's funny is that mista mo makes more since than redge:lol:

[Redge777]

Reply to Mista Mo

Your comment mixes viseral vulgur imagery with acts of violence. It even uses large text to emphisise itself.

For this reason my only reply is for those that read it, why does he post as he does, what is his intent, and is it what you consider good in life.

[mista_mo]

i'm just buggin, jeezzzzz

wait violence.....

and i don't usually post like that, just felt like it. I have no intent, and I consider video games, writing, working, and doritos with shredded cheese good in life.

[Redge777]

Just musing here, maybe the oddity out of characterness of your post was accidently spiritually directed as gunfire in the bell factory can be.

Just segwaing the conversation there.

Nice to meet you, cheetos are good, working the writing, and an occasional video game are good things. I would like to find a good strat PC game, due for a new game.

[bassman]

http://www.picpop.com/gallery/albums/userpics/1-14-05/mrt-que.jpg

[mista_mo]

how i adore spanish T.

[clanglee]

what you consider good in life.

"To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!"

[mista_mo]

and cuddly wuddly kittens ^_^

[Redge777]

"To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!"

Yet they rise again behind you with a staggering gate, an endless moan, closing in on those tasty brains...

[vissionaerie]

Redge...You write beautifully....let me just start by saying welcome to hpotd....

i understand alot of what you said but i think your reading to much into the zombie movies some of what you said just seems like your over symbolizing...(forgive me for not quoting still working out how to do that on this forum..use to the old one)but yet i can see how some of it relates...

i just got done reading a series from Scott Westerfeld..Uglies, Pretties, Specials and Extras...and while reading what you wrote that series popped in my head the whole time. (granted these books are characterize as teen readers-young adults..) and don't really deal with what GAR but came off as a little zombish to me but it was induced by the government and electronics...
meaning the government makes you the way they think you should be and control your thoughts...basically keeping you in a bubble

sorry if i sound weird i talk better than i write i have a hard time trying to express how i feel...if you haven't heard of the books or read them i look like i'm going off track...but trust me i don't think i am....

[clanglee]

*sigh* it was a Conan quote

[Trin]

sorry, I am currently watching a repetitive flash movie a women launching a banana out of her ass into anouther girls mouth, played too the tune of hollaback girl by Gwen Stefani.That is the first thing I've read in this thread that I find interesting.

[Redge777]

i understand alot of what you said but i think your reading to much into the zombie movies some of what you said just seems like your over symbolizing...

i just got done reading a series from Scott Westerfeld..Uglies, Pretties, Specials and Extras...and while reading what you wrote that series popped in my head the whole time. (granted these books are characterize as teen readers-young adults..) and don't really deal with what GAR but came off as a little zombish to me but it was induced by the government and electronics...
meaning the government makes you the way they think you should be and control your thoughts...basically keeping you in a bubble


I definitely over symbolize. It is good to recognize that. An earlier poster commented on sophistry. You take lets say 3 movies, each with melded views of writers editors and actors. nudge a little here, nudge a little there, until they line up to fit a symbolism. This allows for the over symbolism and bad translations. However, I think the zombies as a subset of society idea is possible.

I have not read the book, but I don't doubt the themes match. This stuff is everywhere. An interesting book that follows elite themes is the Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind. In that series the elites are the wizards. They even speak that common people must be used, Wizards first rule is, "people are stupid." It is full of the elite angles. Even covers economics and co-opting the common troops and forces of others. It is a great series, even though I do not prescribe to the idea some are better then others.

To often stories can feed a persons self desire to build there own ego and claim superiority, that leads to defence of selfishness more often then just taking a role to help others. However to the authors credit, he gives his main character the desire to do good, not self serve, even to the point of standing against some older orders.


*sigh* it was a Conan quote


Ah Conan, I will quote a little to

Conan: Almost 20 years of pitiless combat! No rest, no sleep like other men. And yet the spring wind blows, Subotai. Have you ever felt such a wind?
Subotai: They blow where I live too. In the north of every man's heart.
Conan: It's never too late, Subotai.
Subotai: No. It would only lead me back here another day. In even worse company.
Conan: For us, there is no spring. Just the wind that smells fresh before the storm.

[strayrider]

777,

Symbolically speaking, do you believe there is deeper meaning behind the fact that the Black guy in Dawn78 is named Peter?

:D

-stray-

[Redge777]

777,

Symbolically speaking, do you believe there is deeper meaning behind the fact that the Black guy in Dawn78 is named Peter?
:D
-stray-
I doubt it has anything to do with peter rabbit. That said.

Names mean a heck of alot in most stories, an author can pick any name. It is a free noun. And in books it is often the first thing a reader sees and forms their initial impression. So from that view, the name always means something.

Roger, is a more militant or almost authoritative name. Roger actually meaning yes in the parlance of his former occupation. While Peter is a biblical name. His last name is Washington, also having many flavors to its tone. It means something, but maybe not alot. As far as race, incrementalist were race friendly during that era.

I would honestly give far more value to Francine's name. Since France matches the faction of the elite she would symbolize with her character.

On a side note, I found this Romero note that further defines the zombies as common people shuffling around as just consumers

With this idea planted in his head, the tour continued, with Romero making note of the blank, expressionless faces of the mall's shoppers as they shuffled throughout the indoor shopping center. Romero made the connection between the mall's patrons and his own zombies almost immediately, likening the droning consumers — with their insatiable and driving desire for materialistic gratification — with that of his own cannibalistic creations and their driving need for consuming human flesh, each motivated by a singular fulfilling need.

eventually deciding that the progress of his zombie apocalypse had progressed too far; the zombies were already beginning to be trained to function as slaves and were already being fed

I can only see these two wiki entries as defending the point from the beginning that the zombies are common people, while the living people are different factions of the elite.

Note that consumerism is a direct result of programming through marketing "Brave New World" style.

[Redge777]

wow how could I have missed out on all this?

this is too good to be true.
you could well be employing the
very word in my signature.



The word in your signature was sophistry. You give it a quick once over in your description. I wanted to offer an older use of the word. Although out of context, it shows how despised sophistry is.

http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/text/philo/book13.html
but that which is nearest to the mind is uttered speech, inserting false opinions among reasonable and natural plausibilities and probabilities, to the destruction of that best of all possessions, truth.

XVII. (71) Why, then, are we not also to repel this being, too, who is a sophist and a polluted person, condemning him to the death which is suited to him, namely, silence (for silence is the death of speech), in order that the mind may be no longer led away by its sophisms

And
http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/text/philo/book33.html
Now when I speak of men not being pure, I mean those who have either been utterly destitute of education, or else who have tasted of it obliquely, and not in a straight-forward manner, changing the stamp of the beauty of wisdom so as to give an impression of the unsightliness of sophistry. (5) These men, not being able to discern that light which is appreciable only by the intellect, by reason of the weakness of the eyes of their soul, which are by nature easily dazzled by too much brightness,

This reading got me to think of your posting claiming my analogy was sophistry and brought me back to respond. For it changed the way I view your comment from disagreement to, if you were right, a possible accusation of dishonesty or deception. Now if it was lack of education, it would only be education in the symbology of certain orders, that claim rightousness. And in not correcting what you may see as wrong, I would see as ugly.

Either way, your comment of sophistry, if your meaning is similiar to its older usage, becomes a grave insult within this context, and I ask that you clarify your meaning.

Although there are many interpretations of different zombie films, and I do not contend them all to be correct, the basic concept of two tiers of beings, and each having a different set of values, abilities and roles is solid. Furthermore you can easily see many people that have used the zombie motif in pop films and other items to show one group is supposedly good, the other evil, and the attributes of those groups match the way some groups look at different subsets of society.

I find this as a perfect example, if your use of sophistry was meant to be a grave slight to me, but was left to not be explained. Then the hidden meaning of the word, its full depth, becomes like the hidden symbol of the zombie, a way to propagate a communication with some but not others. This is of coarse only if you had its deeper meaning in mind, and decided without intelectual banter to insult or catagorize me, on the bases of a meaning not known to both parties. If this be the case, would your use of the symbol prove you have any greater value? Or just a different set of lingo, and symbolism to claim superiority from?

[Craig]

My brain has imploded.

[triste realtà]

Odd this thread has reared its ugly head again cause I was just thinking that GaR thinks of his dead as representing those born too stupid to do anything but harm and consume others. They can't help themselves but what can you do about it. You can't kill them all, though that would be nice.:elol:

They're just looking for a place of their own. :(weep:(weep

[Mike70]

well it rears its ugly head because seemingly everytime redge visits here it is to post to this thread.

i only popped in here to see what the latest inane banter would be about and i see that nothing whatsoever has changed.

[clanglee]

Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the Dead discussion forum. . . . :rolleyes:

[Mike70]

Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the Dead discussion forum. . . . :rolleyes:

how on all of the internet could there be only one...:rolleyes: (a little jaws II taglinage)

[jim102016]

AH! Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water

[Redge777]

Another corrolation to 'the dead' being the common people not part of the elite:

There is an add for a movie that shows Tom Cruise at a computer saying he can fly. We earlier discussed flying as those that speak infront of people, those who try to make a point to society.

This is what he did when he brought up his Ritalin issue with Matt Lauder. He was flying, but quickly the Mainstream media started hammering him on everything, calling him nuts and crazy for things they had earlier said was calm or cute. Couch jumping, and reaction to squirt gun.

Tom being dead, is saying he has joined the zombies.




They're just looking for a place of their own. :(weep:(weep

I saw a zombie film, rather new, it had the hero letting the Dead walk away at the end, the hero said the line you posted. This again matches the metaphor for the thread.

But the dead are not just looking for a place of their own. They are claiming the current ground occupied by the self proclaimed alive.

[mista_mo]

I found that gif btw.

[Mike70]

I saw a zombie film, rather new, it had the hero letting the Dead walk away at the end, the hero said the line you posted.

guess it must be internet day at your institution.

the movie you are talking about is a rather obscure little movie called land of the dead. i think that some of us have seen it too. jesus you act like you don't even realize that romero made that "rather new" zombie movie.

why the hell do you pollute this place with this inane banter? there are other threads on here, yet you seem to resurrect this one every time you come here.

[Yojimbo]

guess it must be internet day at your institution.

the movie you are talking about is a rather obscure little movie called land of the dead. i think that some of us have seen it too. jesus you act like you don't even realize that romero made that "rather new" zombie movie.

why the hell do you pollute this place with this inane banter? there are other threads on here, yet you seem to resurrect this one every time you come here.

He's just looking for a place of his own!

[Redge777]

guess it must be internet day at your institution.

the movie you are talking about is a rather obscure little movie called land of the dead. i think that some of us have seen it too. jesus you act like you don't even realize that romero made that "rather new" zombie movie.

why the hell do you pollute this place with this inane banter? there are other threads on here, yet you seem to resurrect this one every time you come here.

I reserect this thread so I do not pollute the forum, as I was asked by you and others not to do, so I stay in my one little thread, and make a few comments.

On a side note, my comments in responce to the gunfire in the bell factory I think made it into the last episode of Battlestar Galactica.

Also to say "I am looking for a place of my own", One of the last lines in the film, the new one, affirms my entire arguement. You have cast yourself in the place of the living, and me as the shuffling zombie in the film, This is exactly how, in this thread, I have claimed the film is viewed by some that claim supperiority.

[Choas]

This guy has to much time on his hands.:bored:

[Yojimbo]

Also to say "I am looking for a place of my own", One of the last lines in the film, the new one, affirms my entire arguement. You have cast yourself in the place of the living, and me as the shuffling zombie in the film, This is exactly how, in this thread, I have claimed the film is viewed by some that claim supperiority.

To paraphrase Freud, sometimes a movie is just a movie. I think you are digging a little too deep and as such you are finding messages and meaning where none is intended. For the record, no one is claiming superiority here, and no one is casting you in the role of a zombie.

Just relax, Redge, and have a sense of humor about things and have a good time. Life is too short to waste on overanalyzing things.

[DubiousComforts]

This is exactly how, in this thread, I have claimed the film is viewed by some that claim supperiority.
It's my understanding that you may only claim supper-iority around dinner time.

[Yojimbo]

On a side note, my comments in responce to the gunfire in the bell factory I think made it into the last episode of Battlestar Galactica.



Just a thought, Redge: You might be accused of having delusions of grandeur if you seriously think screenwriters are mining your posts for script ideas.

[mista_mo]

I still love you Redge.
*hugz*

[Mike70]

It's my understanding that you may only claim supper-iority around dinner time.

his last post was only to whet our appetizers.