Freedom or Safety?

[SRP76]

Got this idea from the other thread, and figured it would make a decent discussion.

Here's the situation:

Martial Law has been declared in your community to combat the living dead problem. All citizens are required to be inside their homes, behind locked doors from 7PM to 9AM every day. Go outside, and you get shot.

Now, under this particular scenario, you are NOT being protected by Barney Fife; let's assume the authorities have got this, and they are doing the job. It's safe; the people in charge are NOT going to get you killed with their stupidity.

So, what do you do? Say "give me liberty or give me death", and make a run for wherever....or do you obey, and sacrifice your freedom?

[strayrider]

Based on the parameters you've set, I don't see this as a "liberty or death" scenario. I'd sit tight with a loaded rifle and watch over my family.

-stray-

[ProfessorChaos]

i'd say that given the authorities' infallible ability to blunder any sort of task most any given time, i'd grab my sh!t, my crew, and then make like a baby and head out.

no matter what, sooner or later, something/one is bound to crack and fu(k it up for the rest of us.

of course, this comes from me as a single guy living in a pretty heavily populated area....guess if i had a family and a pretty isolated ideal place in a rural setting, i'd make like an ice cube and chill.

my vote, given my current situation, would be to split.

[jdog]

im gone to the bush

[AcesandEights]

If things got to this point and I was in my current 'home' I'd be screwed. I'm too close to NYC, really. If I move too early, I'd get picked off by the authorities and if I sprint too late it'd be the zombies who'd get me before I could get anywhere useful.

I'd probably have to sit tight...which is also a recIpe for disaster. My only hope is to get out before shoot-on-sight martial law gets declared! However, given your parameters, I have chosen 'sit tight', as I must have moved too late to get out in time :(

[Dommm]

given the circumstances that you have set out.

Sit tight and see what happens, Get a local support group going to keep an eye on the neighbourhood. Arm Myself with what I can and stock up on suppklies as well as a escape kit (food, water, basic medicine and first aid kit, and a daily heavy regime training for me and my family). So the if the proverbel **** hits the fan I have some hope to get me and mine to saftey.

[bassman]

Based on the parameters you've set, I don't see this as a "liberty or death" scenario. I'd sit tight with a loaded rifle and watch over my family.

-stray-

^ what he said.

[Trin]

I'd sit tight. Compared to my current neighbors a pack of flesh-eating ghouls seems like a trade up. Of course, the ghouls would be more intelligent, no matter which movie you draw from.

Unless and until the authorities prove themselves insufficient (at which time they've probably joined the other side making martial law a moot point) they should be allowed to do their jobs.

Now if they come around collecting firearms under the guise of martial law and citizen safety ... then we have another matter entirely.

[bassman]

I'd sit tight. Compared to my current neighbors a pack of flesh-eating ghouls seems like a trade up. Of course, the ghouls would be more intelligent, no matter which movie you draw from.

Unless and until the authorities prove themselves insufficient (at which time they've probably joined the other side making martial law a moot point) they should be allowed to do their jobs.

Now if they come around collecting firearms under the guise of martial law and citizen safety ... then we have another matter entirely.

I have a feeling you don't like your neighbors, Trin.:p

But even if they do come and collect firearms, you could still go the Shaun route and use blunt objects. And imo, that would probably be the best way to go, anyway.

I would keep firearms around as long as I could, but a good baseball bat, crowbar, etc etc would last much longer.

[DubiousComforts]

Compared to my current neighbors a pack of flesh-eating ghouls seems like a trade up.
:lol: Romero is quoted as saying "Night of the Living Dead is about the neighbors."

[acealive1]

my house is pretty fool proof. an indoor porch with locks and all windows are AT LEAST 7 feet off the ground.

[Dommm]

my house is pretty fool proof. an indoor porch with locks and all windows are AT LEAST 7 feet off the ground.

What happens when the dead pile on top of each other??

[Trin]

I have a feeling you don't like your neighbors, Trin.:p

But even if they do come and collect firearms, you could still go the Shaun route and use blunt objects. And imo, that would probably be the best way to go, anyway.

I would keep firearms around as long as I could, but a good baseball bat, crowbar, etc etc would last much longer.
One of my neighbors was shooting at his house with a rifle one evening trying to hit racoons that got into his attic. The undead are simply less dangerous to have around.

My point with the collection of firearms really isn't about my defenses or ability to survive. I don't even own a gun, nor do I think I'd need one to fight zombies. My concern is more that the authories would use the catastrophe as a way to further infringe upon individual rights.

The question in this thread is in many ways the same question that Land asks. Do I allow Kaufman to rule me in exchange for my safety or do I forego safety to live as I please? For many the answer was to live under Kaufman's rule. For Riley the answer was to leave. For Cholo the answer was to try to become one of the authorities. For Mulligan the answer was to rise up in defiance.

[mista_mo]

the most prudent action in this case would be to wait it out. whats the point in making a run for it when you'll just get shot?

[MaximusIncredulous]

I'm outta there. Don't have much faith in authorities.

[clanglee]

Gotta get my family first, then it's sit tight. Unless that is no longer feasable. Then it's bye-bye.

[acealive1]

What happens when the dead pile on top of each other??


they're arent that smart. the windows they could get in only open enough to let half a cinder block in the short way


Gotta get my family first, then it's sit tight. Unless that is no longer feasable. Then it's bye-bye.

family? no....... girlfriend or girl you always wanted to nail :elol::elol:

[SRP76]

Well, since this has received some responses, I'll post my own thoughts:

I would stay right there. I'm not about to get my head shot off just so I can go buy a pair of pants. As long as the militia is getting it done, I'm going to stay out of their way, so they can continue doing their job.

I wouldn't just be a meek, useless hideaway,though. At the very first chance, I would attempt to offer my services to the authorities. Rather than try to go all vigilante (thus becoming part of the problem), I would try to join the organized team.

That way, I can help, while also being in better position to make my getaway if things go downhill.

[AcesandEights]

That way, I can help, while also being in better position to make my getaway if things go downhill.

Very nice. I like your style. ;)

[Legion2213]

I'd take my chances and rely on myself.

Folks who rely on the authorities usually end up getting let down, big time.

[Shadowofthedead]

in my area i would be more worried about the crazies down in the village a mile from my house. if the dead were to come about right now in this reality i am in while i type... i would finally fulfill a blood lust by killin every single one of the punks as i could. basically i would be one of the guys in those movies that gets off killin zombies. i have firearms experience and i dont miss with a scope...:elol:

[Wyldwraith]

I am SO gone,
This is the military we're talking about, aka Those Who College Scared led by Those Who Are Control Freaks. THEY are what's between me and being eaten alive? NO THANK YOU. I exercise option C: Try to make a discreet getaway, but if I must stop a bullet in a couple grunts skulls and go on my way for parts rural and VERY unknown.

Call me a fringe loony, but I don't trust the military to protect a lump of **** from a guy obsessed with keeping his new Nikes spotless.

[ProfessorChaos]

This is the military we're talking about, aka Those Who College Scared led by Those Who Are Control Freaks....

Call me a fringe loony, but I don't trust the military to protect a lump of **** from a guy obsessed with keeping his new Nikes spotless.

Fringe Loony,

As a Marine and proud veteran of the current global war on terrorism, I am offended by your remarks. True, there are some power-tripping jerk-offs in uniform, and some kids aren't ready for college and have no other direction to go, but that doesn't make them inferior to anyone . Some of the bravest and most intelligent individuals I have met in my life are military members. Some of the individuals I met in the Marines are among the best friends I've ever had, and I still keep in contact with many of them, and probably will throughout my entire life.

College educations or having the luxury of attending universities (which many do not, which is where the military comes in to play for some, such as myself) do not automatically grant people immunity from being ignorant. I'm currently attending a rather large university, and the majority of students are totally irresponsible, self-centered and spoiled good-for-nothing a$$holes and/or whores. Most don't fully comprehend the ideas of commitment, sacrifice, duty, and honor, and for some reason I get the feeling you don't either.

Even though the current administration and some previous ones have misused the military a bit, you, me, your family and mine....all owe a debt of gratitude to people in uniform for securing the freedoms that most of us enjoy and take for granted. Please stop to think before posting these sort of comments, because you come off as a complete jackass in doing so.

By the way, thanks for paying your taxes and supporting my education tuition and benefits, I'll be sure to use some of my G.I. Bill check this month to buy a beer and pretend it's your way of apologizing....maybe with an education I can some day be as enlightened as you.:rolleyes:

[jim102016]

I am SO gone,
This is the military we're talking about, aka Those Who College Scared led by Those Who Are Control Freaks. THEY are what's between me and being eaten alive? NO THANK YOU. I exercise option C: Try to make a discreet getaway, but if I must stop a bullet in a couple grunts skulls and go on my way for parts rural and VERY unknown.

Call me a fringe loony, but I don't trust the military to protect a lump of **** from a guy obsessed with keeping his new Nikes spotless.

Looks like you've been watching too many anti-U.S. Geoge Cloony movies, Mr. Hollywood. What exactly are you trying to say by "Those Who College Scared led by Those Who Are Control Freaks"? Literally, it makes no sense. Its a real shame, sounds like you have no appreciation for those who keep your ass safe at night, I guess you've never served. Don't care what your opinion about GWB is, shouldn't matter. I hope I come across you in those very unknown areas, I am one of those you so easily criticize but fear to join.

[SRP76]

I could just as easily say that college students are Those Who Are Afraid of Military Sevice.

Actually, that would be pretty accurate. A huge percentage are talkers who wouldn't fight to save their lives.

[AcesandEights]

Wow, this post is spiraling off into blanket-statement heaven.

[wyvern1096]

Fringe Loony,

As a Marine and proud veteran of the current global war on terrorism, I am offended by your remarks. True, there are some power-tripping jerk-offs in uniform, and some kids aren't ready for college and have no other direction to go, but that doesn't make them inferior to anyone . Some of the bravest and most intelligent individuals I have met in my life are military members. Some of the individuals I met in the Marines are among the best friends I've ever had, and I still keep in contact with many of them, and probably will throughout my entire life.

College educations or having the luxury of attending universities (which many do not, which is where the military comes in to play for some, such as myself) do not automatically grant people immunity from being ignorant. I'm currently attending a rather large university, and the majority of students are totally irresponsible, self-centered and spoiled good-for-nothing a$$holes and/or whores. Most don't fully comprehend the ideas of commitment, sacrifice, duty, and honor, and for some reason I get the feeling you don't either.

Even though the current administration and some previous ones have misused the military a bit, you, me, your family and mine....all owe a debt of gratitude to people in uniform for securing the freedoms that most of us enjoy and take for granted. Please stop to think before posting these sort of comments, because you come off as a complete jackass in doing so.

By the way, thanks for paying your taxes and supporting my education tuition and benefits, I'll be sure to use some of my G.I. Bill check this month to buy a beer and pretend it's your way of apologizing....maybe with an education I can some day be as enlightened as you.:rolleyes:


Thank you. You said it more politely than I was capable of.

[Legion2213]

I think some folks often confuse the military with the government that gives them their orders.


Would I trust the British army to protect my life with profesionalism and 100% dedication?

Yes, without a shadow of a doubt.


Would I trust the British government to ensure that the military had enough ammo, equipment and the right amount of man power in the right places to protect my life?

No ****ing way.


I hope that makes my own position clear to the military types on this board...because I came out earlier in this thread and said that no way would I rely on the authorities, but at the same time, I don't like the disrespect and ungratefulness that's been shown by some to those who serve or have served with their nations armed forces.

[sandrock74]

my house is pretty fool proof. an indoor porch with locks and all windows are AT LEAST 7 feet off the ground.

Dude, we SO have to hang out! LOL!

[ProfessorChaos]

Thank you. You said it more politely than I was capable of.

Trust me brother, that wasn't my initial reaction. I had many, many, many foul, nasty, mean, and hateful things to spit at the screen, but using a powerful leadership tool I learned in the Marines (tactfulness) I toned it down quite a bit.

Still doesn't change the fact that it totally got under my skin, though.


I think some folks often confuse the military with the government that gives them their orders.


Would I trust the British army to protect my life with profesionalism and 100% dedication?

Yes, without a shadow of a doubt.


Would I trust the British government to ensure that the military had enough ammo, equipment and the right amount of man power in the right places to protect my life?

No ****ing way.


I hope that makes my own position clear to the military types on this board...because I came out earlier in this thread and said that no way would I rely on the authorities, but at the same time, I don't like the disrespect and ungratefulness that's been shown by some to those who serve or have served with their nations armed forces.

No offense taken by your comment, sir. When you say authorities, I (and most veterans/military members, I assume) hold the same level of mistrust in many, if not most, authority figures...particularly politicians and all sorts of other guys who wear suits...some of 'em even wear make-up, that's how fu(king fake they are.

However, to rip on an entire organization and all its members because you were to chicken-sh!t to suit up and find out what it's really about, instead relying on movies and the media for your information, is quite pathetic.

[Dommm]

Fringe Loony,

As a Marine and proud veteran of the current global war on terrorism, I am offended by your remarks. True, there are some power-tripping jerk-offs in uniform, and some kids aren't ready for college and have no other direction to go, but that doesn't make them inferior to anyone . Some of the bravest and most intelligent individuals I have met in my life are military members. Some of the individuals I met in the Marines are among the best friends I've ever had, and I still keep in contact with many of them, and probably will throughout my entire life.

:


Even though I dont agree with the war on terror or the british\american (politicians) stance on this, I dont think its the individuals within the military that are at fault, they are a group of people that go out to protect the society they come from with the utmost bravery risking personal and mental scarring and yes even death. Yes there are some who are bit nuts/racist/stuckup etc... but look around your office and you will find the same sort of people. My problem is not with the militery or the personnal within but the leadrer and the poloticians.

[Graebel]

Aren't you all assuming that the military would be home from the Middle East?

And although my zombie plan usually involves stealing horses and heading cross country....

....Washington DC and PG county cops are a little twitchy with the old trigger fingers. And since I assume it would be them and the non-deployed National Guard enforcing peace....:( staying home might be the more rational solution.

[jim102016]

Aren't you all assuming that the military would be home from the Middle East?

And although my zombie plan usually involves stealing horses and heading cross country....

....Washington DC and PG county cops are a little twitchy with the old trigger fingers. And since I assume it would be them and the non-deployed National Guard enforcing peace....:( staying home might be the more rational solution.


While I've read it's the smallest since pre-WWII, there are only what, 160,000 U.S. personnel in Iraq? A significant force, but nothing like the Cold War deterrent in Europe or the half-million force in Vietnam in the 1960s. Let’s say 1.5 active duty, backed up by 1.2 million in reserve. While the active side is shot-gunned all over the world, I'd say it’s safe to say the majority of the total force is still stateside.

With that said, you can't just bring home 160,000 troops home with all their equipment and everything they need to function as a fighting force at the drop of a hat. In the event of an emergency like we talk about here, I'm not sure what the hell they'd do.

[Trencher]

I would imidiatly report SRP76 to the secret police for suggesting that there are alternatives to obeying the rules.

Seriously though I would respect a curfew and martial law as long as there were zombies out there and if I got the impression that the goverment were upholding the martial law without reason I would kill the goverment. So I voted sit tight.

[Graebel]

While I've read it's the smallest since pre-WWII, there are only what, 160,000 U.S. personnel in Iraq? A significant force, but nothing like the Cold War deterrent in Europe or the half-million force in Vietnam in the 1960s. Let’s say 1.5 active duty, backed up by 1.2 million in reserve. While the active side is shot-gunned all over the world, I'd say it’s safe to say the majority of the total force is still stateside.

With that said, you can't just bring home 160,000 troops home with all their equipment and everything they need to function as a fighting force at the drop of a hat. In the event of an emergency like we talk about here, I'm not sure what the hell they'd do.

While there are quite a few here, not all of those are capable of doing the kind of policing and crowd control that you're assuming they'll do.

Case in point, the Air Force's basic training has evolved to the point where they don't shoot real guns at all. They do combat sims with mock rifles. No kickback, no running towards a target and slipping and falling out in front of the shooting line (actually happened), just a guy in warehouse playing Halo.

MPs and infantry are in much shorter supply than your average pogue.

[Mike70]

i have about as much faith in the govt.'s (any govt.) ability to deal with any major crises as i do in the sun rising in the south tomorrow morning.

i would make like -the grateful dead and beat it on down the line; like vanessa del rio and blow; etc. ad infinitum.

[SRP76]

I would imidiatly report SRP76 to the secret police for suggesting that there are alternatives to obeying the rules.



The secret police have already been eaten; all we have left is the regular police.:p

[Mike70]

The secret police have already been eaten; all we have left is the regular police.:p

hehehe. then there will be no problem making a break for it, since regular cops are about the dumbest group of people in the world.

[Wyldwraith]

Ok,
Know what, I REALLY tried to just let this go and not reply. Sorry, guess I didn't learn that kind of self-control not having been part of the wonderful world of the armed services.

I was speaking about the military via the people I personally know, their behavior and motivations both before and after they were in the service and the notion of these being the people who would be called up (most are now reserve) in the event of martial law via a zombie crisis to protect me?

I want you to look up the % of 18-19yr old males who signed up for the service pre-War on Terror in Central Florida. Its absolutely STAGGERING unless compared to say, Texas.

The *individuals I draw my experience from* (NOT TV, thank you very much. The idiot who believes he can find truth on TV is the same idiot who thinks he can find a hot chick to date on the internet) are accurately described by my earlier comments.

I apologize if you felt like I was speaking about the entire service.

Oh, and don't you EVER ****ing talk to me about honor and sacrifice. I'm on permanent disability after being beaten almost to death when I intervened to stop 5 "men" from pulling a train on an 18yr old girl who had passed out. There was no one else around, and my hotel room (and the room this was occurring in) were up on the almost-deserted 4th floor where the economy suites are located.

My parents raised me with principles and a firm understanding of concepts like honor, self-sacrifice, making hard and often painful choices to do the right thing. (Even though I have two brown belts, 1 in ****o-Ryu and 1 in Akido I knew damned well I was gonna get maimed or killed taking on 5 guys all bigger than me in the narrow confines of a hotel room).

So yea, I apologize for the broad-blanket statements..but please dont try to wrap the flag around the imbeciles who used to sign up pre-9/11 when military service in many areas was basically utilized as an upgraded form of welfare.

The worst part, what crawls under my skin and friggin dies is that these imbeciles comes back after fixing trucks for 2-4yrs overseas and then 90% of them get jobs working for the Marion and Alachua County Sheriffs' Departments or the Ocala/Gainesville PD.

Most of my really good friends are women, and I cant tell you the number of times one of their husbands has gotten drunk and decided to make himself feel like a man by hitting his WIFE. Someone he should lay his life down for to keep safe. Then the system circles the wagons to keep these losers safe from prosecution. I'm SICK OF IT.

So please, PLEASE don't try to tell me that military service automatically instills honor and decency in those who serve. Levinworth wouldn't be full and there wouldnt be so many of these a-holes running around acting like barbarians and covering for each others atrocities if it did. I'm absolutely positive that many of the men and women you know are find upstanding human beings, a credit to their country and people all US citizens should be proud of.

But you do yourself a disservice if you think that the fine upstanding people you know make up 99% of the servicemen/women and that the violent and out of control psychos are incredibly rare exceptions.

If they're so rare why are 9 out of my graduating class of 202 (all former military) doing/have done time for domestic assault, DUI, hit and run or rape?

Anyways: Again, I apologize to any servicepeople who took what I said to be directed towards the military in its entirety. Believe it or not I actually respect the commitment several years of service entails. I don't believe that the military will ever be a terribly effective security force at home, but thats another story.

Lastly, take your own advice and skip the generalizations about me.

Thank you.

[Trencher]

The secret police have already been eaten; all we have left is the regular police.:p

How can you know?
Besides I am pretty sure the secret police are vampires.

[acealive1]

Dude, we SO have to hang out! LOL!


no problem. :D

[Mike70]

Ok,
Know what, I REALLY tried to just let this go and not reply. Sorry, guess I didn't learn that kind of self-control not having been part of the wonderful world of the armed services.

I was speaking about the military via the people I personally know, their behavior and motivations both before and after they were in the service and the notion of these being the people who would be called up (most are now reserve) in the event of martial law via a zombie crisis to protect me?

I want you to look up the % of 18-19yr old males who signed up for the service pre-War on Terror in Central Florida. Its absolutely STAGGERING unless compared to say, Texas.

The *individuals I draw my experience from* (NOT TV, thank you very much. The idiot who believes he can find truth on TV is the same idiot who thinks he can find a hot chick to date on the internet) are accurately described by my earlier comments.

I apologize if you felt like I was speaking about the entire service.

Oh, and don't you EVER ****ing talk to me about honor and sacrifice. I'm on permanent disability after being beaten almost to death when I intervened to stop 5 "men" from pulling a train on an 18yr old girl who had passed out. There was no one else around, and my hotel room (and the room this was occurring in) were up on the almost-deserted 4th floor where the economy suites are located.

My parents raised me with principles and a firm understanding of concepts like honor, self-sacrifice, making hard and often painful choices to do the right thing. (Even though I have two brown belts, 1 in ****o-Ryu and 1 in Akido I knew damned well I was gonna get maimed or killed taking on 5 guys all bigger than me in the narrow confines of a hotel room).

So yea, I apologize for the broad-blanket statements..but please dont try to wrap the flag around the imbeciles who used to sign up pre-9/11 when military service in many areas was basically utilized as an upgraded form of welfare.

The worst part, what crawls under my skin and friggin dies is that these imbeciles comes back after fixing trucks for 2-4yrs overseas and then 90% of them get jobs working for the Marion and Alachua County Sheriffs' Departments or the Ocala/Gainesville PD.

Most of my really good friends are women, and I cant tell you the number of times one of their husbands has gotten drunk and decided to make himself feel like a man by hitting his WIFE. Someone he should lay his life down for to keep safe. Then the system circles the wagons to keep these losers safe from prosecution. I'm SICK OF IT.

So please, PLEASE don't try to tell me that military service automatically instills honor and decency in those who serve. Levinworth wouldn't be full and there wouldnt be so many of these a-holes running around acting like barbarians and covering for each others atrocities if it did. I'm absolutely positive that many of the men and women you know are find upstanding human beings, a credit to their country and people all US citizens should be proud of.

But you do yourself a disservice if you think that the fine upstanding people you know make up 99% of the servicemen/women and that the violent and out of control psychos are incredibly rare exceptions.

If they're so rare why are 9 out of my graduating class of 202 (all former military) doing/have done time for domestic assault, DUI, hit and run or rape?

Anyways: Again, I apologize to any servicepeople who took what I said to be directed towards the military in its entirety. Believe it or not I actually respect the commitment several years of service entails. I don't believe that the military will ever be a terribly effective security force at home, but thats another story.

Lastly, take your own advice and skip the generalizations about me.

Thank you.

ok. i haven't weighed in on this particular snit before now but here goes.

i am a veteran. the army, 10th mountain division. i served in somalia in 92-93 for the 6 worst months of my life. i didn't have to join. i did it because at that rebellious time in my young adventure seeking life it was the one thing i knew would piss my parents off to no end.

if i had it to do over i would've never joined. not that i hate the military, it serves a useful purpose when in the hands of rational, responsible govt. (which the US simply does not have right now) but there are quit a bit of tin plated morons in the military.

war, all forms of it are disgusting, primitive crap that our species needs to outgrow if we are going to make it in the long run. there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING heroic or glamorous about war or about the people who fight it- they are simply people being manipulated by fat, rich politicians. it is simply people murdering other people under the guise of political and legal acceptability. take it from me. i have seen people blown into little pieces and shot dead literally right in front of me. stuff i wish and i try to forget- but as the book says - once something is in your head, it is in there forever.

as someone with above average intelligence i cannot stand having to listen to people that i think are dumb or are not on the same intellectual level as i am. a lot of the NCOs in the military are about as smart as a box of hand rubbed rocks - in my opinion and my experience. so this whole military thing was so, so painful that the day i got out was the happiest day of my life - other than when my son was born or i saw a chick naked for the first time and realized i was gonna get some.

now here i am. i've gone to college and gotten a doctorate and i look back on those three years and i wonder who the hell that person was and what the frak he thought he was doing. and i shake my head.

i wouldn't put a dog (an animal that i absolutely loathe and consider one of the lowest forms of life on this planet) in the military under this present admin.

i think in one sense you are right- there are a lot of people in the military who are simply losers and need to be told what to do every second of their lives. i am not one of them. i have a complete and utter loathing for any and all forms of authority. in the words of rage "fu ck you i won't do what you tell me."


no problem. :D

jesus detroit and toledo together. that is one hell of a love child you two are working on.:)

[acealive1]

ok. i haven't weighed in on this particular snit before now but here goes.

i am a veteran. the army, 10th mountain division. i served in somalia in 92-93 for the 6 worst months of my life. i didn't have to join. i did it because at that rebellious time in my young adventure seeking life it was the one thing i knew would piss my parents off to no end.

if i had it to do over i would've never joined. not that i hate the military, it serves a useful purpose when in the hands of rational, responsible govt. (which the US simply does not have right now) but there are quit a bit of tin plated morons in the military.

war, all forms of it are disgusting, primitive crap that our species needs to outgrow if we are going to make it in the long run. there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING heroic or glamorous about war or about the people who fight it- they are simply people being manipulated by fat, rich politicians. it is simply people murdering other people under the guise of political and legal acceptability. take it from me. i have seen people blown into little pieces and shot dead literally right in front of me. stuff i wish and i try to forget- but as the book says - once something is in your head, it is in there forever.

as someone with above average intelligence i cannot stand having to listen to people that i think are dumb or are not on the same intellectual level as i am. a lot of the NCOs in the military are about as smart as a box of hand rubbed rocks - in my opinion and my experience. so this whole military thing was so, so painful that the day i got out was the happiest day of my life - other than when my son was born or i saw a chick naked for the first time and realized i was gonna get some.

now here i am. i've gone to college and gotten a doctorate and i look back on those three years and i wonder who the hell that person was and what the frak he thought he was doing. and i shake my head.

i wouldn't put a dog (an animal that i absolutely loathe and consider one of the lowest forms of life on this planet) in the military under this present admin.

i think in one sense you are right- there are a lot of people in the military who are simply losers and need to be told what to do every second of their lives. i am not one of them. i have a complete and utter loathing for any and all forms of authority. in the words of rage "fu ck you i won't do what you tell me."



jesus detroit and toledo together. that is one hell of a love child you two are working on.:)




LOL. if it makes it any better,i grew up in a city 10 times worse than detroit....................los angeles. there'd be blood and ass everywhere if zombies got out.