Jesus Camp

[ProfessorChaos]

Okay, so I posted something about this on the Tom Cruise/Scientology thread, but no one seemed to pick up on it, and I don't wanna hijack a thread, so I'll start a new one:

Has anyone else seen this documentary? It's about a summer camp for young kids who are evangelical christians, and it is off the wall. I've seen some disturbing documentaries in my time, but this one is full-stop creepy.

It's hard to even begin to describe how twisted this film is. Kids much too young to make up their minds about their favorite cereal, let alone their religious faith, are being brainwashed and herded into a cult-like denomination that is hell-bent on forcing their ignorant views (such as creationism, the belief that the world was created by God less than six thousand years ago) on the entire world. In one scene, a rat-tailed little God-freak is talking about how he was saved by Jesus Christ at the age of five, because he felt his life wasn't complete and he wanted more out of life. Dude...you're five years old. You're gonna get a lot more out of life, especially when you learn your multiplication tables. What a shame that this kid's perceptions on the world are forever twisted due to his imbecile parents and their ignorant-a$$ moronic beliefs.

I'd better calm down before I get too worked up over this. I'm just gonna post a couple of clips and let you guys who've not seen it make up your minds for yourselves. If you have seen it, what did you think about it?

ppQhleVuWPM

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Oh yeah, and there's even an appearance by Ted Haggard, the evangelical minister...yeah, the one that got caught doing methamphetamines with a gay male prostitute.

[MikePizzoff]

I've seen part of this documentary and it made me so sick to my stomach that I had to turn it off. It's truly disturbing how brainwashed millions of people are.

[Mike70]

i can't watch stuff like this either. it makes me want to hang evangelicals from
streetlights.

on another similar tip: the sheriff's office out here runs what is called "respect for law and order camp." someday i'll have to take a picture of the sign out on us27 coming into oxford. my wife and i laugh ourselves silly ever spring when this thing goes up. respect for law and order camp - what an insidious, muppet producing pile of crap.

[Khardis]

While I also find extreme evangelical christianity to be a bit loopy, I gotta say, why are you so upset that there are families out there that push their families values on their children? I don't understand, you thinking people SHOULDN'T be allowed to instill religious values and raise children in a religious way is no better than these people raising their kids to hate gays or non-christians. If a family chooses to raise a kid the way the family sees fit, thats their business, why should you care how they do it? How would you feel if people were saying you were a bad parent because you weren't religious enough with any children (if you have any). Lay off and let them be, it takes all types to make the world go around. Besides if there wasn't any more of these Evangelicals who would you have left to dislike and make fun of?

If anything at least these kids aren't being neglected, its the kids who are left alone with no rules, no guidance, not values, no boundaries who turn out to be the real threats around us.

On a side note, I just cant help but bust out in laughter when they speak in "tounges"

Reassah bossah shiki diki miki eenie mieny moe dookie poopy in pantsies!!!!
Save meh Jesus! Save meh!

[acealive1]

so that lady's a hypocrite for saying "theres people here who are phonies and hypocrites" they're FUHCKING KIDS!!!! not adults who know the difference between right and wrong. that lady right now is probably posted up with some huge schlong black man getting piped....one problem,he isnt her husband.

my brothers friend is a "minister" at a church and preaches til he's blue in the face..but he showed greed when he found out about some stock options and didnt tell my brother who let the idiot live with him for like a year rent free. so just cuz ya go to church doesnt mean ur mr big stuff. i'd much rather read the bible on my own than get told when to go to church and to give money to "god"

[clanglee]

I found the film pretty disturbing personally. I did like how they showed the camp, with no interference from the filmmakers. It was not even really a biased depiction. I did like how they counterbalanced the story with the radio guy's logical diatribe.

Yeah the main problem I had was with how the kids were treated. These are not adults. You throw enough guilt and fear at them, and of course they will say anything.

[DubiousComforts]

I saw this documentary about one year ago. I'd love to hear anyone explain how praying to a life-size standee of George Bush has anything to do with instilling Christian family values in pre-teen children. Jesus Christ would have overturned more than a few tables in this temple-marketplace.

[Mike70]

I saw this documentary about one year ago. I'd love to hear anyone explain how praying to a life-size standee of George Bush has anything to do with instilling Christian family values in pre-teen children. Jesus Christ would have overturned more than a few tables in this temple-marketplace.


please, please tell me you are dicking the dog here about the life-size george bush thingy???

fact is both jesus (real name joshua-jesus is greek there is no sh sound in ancient greek) and that other fool mohammed are nothing but charlatans. men with the the disgusting hubris to hold forth that they either are:
a. divine
b. understand the will of god

i just watched a thing on the olympian gods and how they are still with us. we still talk about them, still name things for them and still honor them in many ways, just one example being the olympics.

i somehow suspect that long after jesus and mohammed are done with frakking this planet all to hell, the olympians will still be with humans because they are real gods - not men masquerading as either the son of the "only god" or as the "final prophet" of said non-existent god. fact is that they never turned their back on us - we turned our backs on them to follow a backwards ass peasant from galilee.


sorry if i have moved a bit off topic but christianity and evangelical christianity in particular brings out the worst in me.

[Khardis]

so that lady's a hypocrite for saying "theres people here who are phonies and hypocrites" they're FUHCKING KIDS!!!! not adults who know the difference between right and wrong. that lady right now is probably posted up with some huge schlong black man getting piped....one problem,he isnt her husband.

my brothers friend is a "minister" at a church and preaches til he's blue in the face..but he showed greed when he found out about some stock options and didnt tell my brother who let the idiot live with him for like a year rent free. so just cuz ya go to church doesnt mean ur mr big stuff. i'd much rather read the bible on my own than get told when to go to church and to give money to "god"

You're a little obsessed with big black schlongs or something? You seem to mention them in like a lot of posts, or variations of something involving them. Sup dude?

[acealive1]

You're a little obsessed with big black schlongs or something? You seem to mention them in like a lot of posts, or variations of something involving them. Sup dude?



it was to make a point........sometimes u have to use the most over the top means to get a point across. also,whats worse? me saying i'd pipe kelly clarkson,or you jotting down everytime i mention the word penis?

[Khardis]

it was to make a point........sometimes u have to use the most over the top means to get a point across. also,whats worse? me saying i'd pipe kelly clarkson,or you jotting down everytime i mention the word penis?

I don't jot it down, its just hard to not notice... I mean. Honestly.

[clanglee]

please, please tell me you are dicking the dog here about the life-size george bush thingy???

fact is both jesus (real name joshua-jesus is greek there is no sh sound in ancient greek) and that other fool mohammed are nothing but charlatans. men with the the disgusting hubris to hold forth that they either are:
a. divine
b. understand the will of god

i just watched a thing on the olympian gods and how they are still with us. we still talk about them, still name things for them and still honor them in many ways, just one example being the olympics.

i somehow suspect that long after jesus and mohammed are done with frakking this planet all to hell, the olympians will still be with humans because they are real gods - not men masquerading as either the son of the "only god" or as the "final prophet" of said non-existent god. fact is that they never turned their back on us - we turned our backs on them to follow a backwards ass peasant from galilee.


sorry if i have moved a bit off topic but christianity and evangelical christianity in particular brings out the worst in me.

Ummmmm. . .well then. :stunned: I have to say, that's the first time I've ever hear the big J reffered to as a backwards ass peasant from galilee. That's a pretty bold statement there. Considering the fact that you just touted the virtues of some primative deities. I dunno man. Jesus just came out and said "stop all this BS and just calm down everyone." He was sort of a hippy philosopher. It's all the other sh#t that gets attached to the message that kind of smears the whole idea.

[EvilNed]

While I also find extreme evangelical christianity to be a bit loopy, I gotta say, why are you so upset that there are families out there that push their families values on their children?

Ever hear of a little thing called The Hitler Youth? Well, this is basicly the same thing. You know, just wanted to simplify it for you.

As mentioned in the very first post (you must have missed it), these kids are brainwashed from the age of five. No matter what doctrine or religion you're forcing upon a kid at age 5, you're ruining his entire life from then and onwards.

[MinionZombie]

From the off, let's not let this thread turn out like some others have recently.

While I'm generally fine with people being religious, it's evangelism I fear/rather dislike.

I also think that this whole Jesus Camp thing should be outlawed, or at least that nobody under 16 can go to one - because it's indoctrination is what it is. Interesting that Ned brought up Hitler Youth Camps, I was just about to do the same thing.

A bunch of kids who don't know their own selves or minds yet, and they're being indoctrinated, only being exposed to one way of thinking. I think it's twisted, and essentially child abuse.

As for normal religion - fine and dandy, I've said it before and I'll say it again, sometimes I think they're better off than Athiests at time (I'd say I'm Athiest), because at least they have something to believe in and rely on when times get hard and they're struggling - they have faith in something to get them through.

The problem comes when some people take personal faith and organise it, such as this terrifying Jesus Camp crap, and essentially make a cult out of it - which in itself is an affront to decent, ordinary religion.

...

This reminds me of part of a doc I watched last night on Sky Two, I couldn't stomach much of it because it just disgusted me so deeply - "BNP Wives". Absolutely disgusting people, blatant racists who deny the freakin' Holocaust - how can you deny what's proven in spades already?!

*takes a breath*

I'll take a leaf out of your book Prof, quit typing before I get all hepped up. :)

[Khardis]

Ever hear of a little thing called The Hitler Youth? Well, this is basicly the same thing. You know, just wanted to simplify it for you.

As mentioned in the very first post (you must have missed it), these kids are brainwashed from the age of five. No matter what doctrine or religion you're forcing upon a kid at age 5, you're ruining his entire life from then and onwards.

According to you, you do realize that this is all your opinion right?

[capncnut]

I refuse to watch anything to do with Christianity in case I get possessed.

[SRP76]

I'm shocked nobody's blamed George Bush for this yet.

[clanglee]

I blame George Bush for this!!! :D

[Mike70]

Ummmmm. . .well then. :stunned: I have to say, that's the first time I've ever hear the big J reffered to as a backwards ass peasant from galilee. That's a pretty bold statement there. Considering the fact that you just touted the virtues of some primative deities. I dunno man. Jesus just came out and said "stop all this BS and just calm down everyone." He was sort of a hippy philosopher. It's all the other sh#t that gets attached to the message that kind of smears the whole idea.

maybe i get a bit carried away brother clanglee. like i said before, bible thumpers bring out the absolute worst in me.

but the historical jesus (again joshua in aramaic and hebrew) was a peasant, who most likely would not have been literate or at best would''ve been semi-literate. i don't think that the olympian deities were "primative" at all. they were reflections of us, with all of our foilbles and bad habits and isn't that what god really is a reflection of us?

a bit off topic:

BUT- there are times when i am outside in the dark with a telescope (yes i am a total geek about astronomy) when i look at something as beautiful as mars, jupiter or saturn and my belief in some sort of god is absolute. then the next morning i turn on the news to hear how humans have thought up new ways to brutalize one another that i am like - is there really any hope for us?

and i wonder...

[EvilNed]

According to you, you do realize that this is all your opinion right?

Maybe because I, and others here, have actually learned from history?

As for Jesus, stop pondering who he was; He didn't even exist. There was never any historical Jesus, and all the tales you heard about him are the typical "hero" tales that you can apply to Jason or Theseus or Herakles as well.

[Mike70]

According to you, you do realize that this is all your opinion right?


not speak for ned but i realize it is an opinion and i realize that my opinion on christianity is vicious in the extreme but i have thought it over and over and besides math, chemistry and physics isn't that what life is? a serious of opinions on things we wish weren't so.




As for Jesus, stop pondering who he was; He didn't even exist. There was never any historical Jesus


one of the few historical things where we must disagree. christ was a real person, and i quote:

:"...Nero fabricated scapegoats (for the great fire) and punished with every refinement were the notoriously depraved christians (as they were popularly called). Their originator, Jesus Christ, had been executed during the reign of Tiberius by the governor of Judea, Pontius Pilate. " translated by me, scipio70 from Tacitus, Annals of the Roman Empire, Vol XV."

this was written by the pagan (and great) historian Tacitus. it is one of the major non-christian sources for jesus having been an actual person- in fact it is the only major non-christian mention of his life and death in classical latin and it is considered rock solid by every scholar worth his salt...

[Khardis]

Maybe because I, and others here, have actually learned from history?

As for Jesus, stop pondering who he was; He didn't even exist. There was never any historical Jesus, and all the tales you heard about him are the typical "hero" tales that you can apply to Jason or Theseus or Herakles as well.

Again, all your opinion, your wrong opinion that is.

[MikePizzoff]

Again, all your opinion, your wrong opinion that is.

Actually it's impossible for an opinion to be right or wrong...

[Khardis]

Actually it's impossible for an opinion to be right or wrong...

really? no way! :shifty:

[MikePizzoff]

really? no way! :shifty:

Well then why did you tell him his opinion was wrong?

[Khardis]

Well then why did you tell him his opinion was wrong?

Because it is! Bwahahahaha!:evil::evil::evil:

[clanglee]

maybe i get a bit carried away brother clanglee. like i said before, bible thumpers bring out the absolute worst in me.

but the historical jesus (again joshua in aramaic and hebrew) was a peasant, who most likely would not have been literate or at best would''ve been semi-literate. i don't think that the olympian deities were "primative" at all. they were reflections of us, with all of our foilbles and bad habits and isn't that what god really is a reflection of us?

a bit off topic:

BUT- there are times when i am outside in the dark with a telescope (yes i am a total geek about astronomy) when i look at something as beautiful as mars, jupiter or saturn and my belief in some sort of god is absolute. then the next morning i turn on the news to hear how humans have thought up new ways to brutalize one another that i am like - is there really any hope for us?

and i wonder...

It's cool man, I'm not pissed or anything. . .just wanted to reign you in a bit there. ;) My main point of contention was with your statement about Jesus claiming himself to be God. His deification occured MUCH after his death. The council of Nicea I believe( tho i may be wrong there)

The Judeo/Christian God is also a reflection of man. Especially when you compare the old and new testimate Gods. Whew, talk about bi-polar!! ;)

[Mike70]

The Judeo/Christian God is also a reflection of man.


religion is something i do need to be reigned in about from time to time. i have never been much of churchy person at all. my closest exposure to the bible in the last 20 years or so was when i was in college and took a biblical latin class, which i enjoyed quite a bit. the book of john (the one we read in class) rips in latin and is full of cool passages.

like
1.1 In principio erat Verbum,
et Verbum erat apud Deum,
et Deus erat Verbum.

and

1.14 Et Verbum caro factum est,
et habitavit in nobis:
et vidimus gloriam ejus,
gloriam quasi unigeniti a Patre
plenum gratiæ et veritatis.

[EvilNed]

Again, all your opinion, your wrong opinion that is.

Why do you even bother to respond?

[Khardis]

Why do you even bother to respond?

To let you know that you are wrong. Why do you?

[MikePizzoff]

Why do you even bother to respond?


To let you know that you are wrong. Why do you?

FIGHT!!!

[ProfessorChaos]

once again, a thread goes down in flames due to the internet egos.:bored:

[EvilNed]

To let you know that you are wrong. Why do you?

My statements are just opinions, but yours are fact. I bet that's the kind of arrogance that got the romans fed up with Jesus in the first place and put him on that cross! :lol:

If you're gonna reply (to me), please do some with some arguments rather than just "I'm right, you're wrong".

[Neil]

Come on children play nice now! :) It was quite an interesting thread - be a shame to lose it!

[Khardis]

once again, a thread goes down in flames due to the internet egos.:bored:

lego my ego.


My statements are just opinions, but yours are fact. I bet that's the kind of arrogance that got the romans fed up with Jesus in the first place and put him on that cross! :lol:

If you're gonna reply (to me), please do some with some arguments rather than just "I'm right, you're wrong".

Well you are wrong, specifically about Jesus... he wasnt crucified by the Romans because they wanted to have a good ole time. The historical Jesus was a bit of a rebel in that he undermined mostly the Religious leaders of the Jewish Temple, so they had him tried and executed. You are welcome, 1$ for the education please. Drive though.

[Mike70]

let me settle back here with my popcorn.

http://alicia-logic.com/capsimages/gq_021FredFlies.jpg

because this just might get entertaining.

[Terran]

The historical Jesus was a bit of a rebel in that he undermined mostly the Religious leaders of the Jewish Temple, so they had him tried and executed.


That is if a "historical Jesus" actually existed.....:shifty:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_myth_hypothesis

[Khardis]

That is if a "historical Jesus" actually existed.....:shifty:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_myth_hypothesis

He did, and Roman historians at the same time period confirmed it. They weren't Christians by the way.

[Mike70]

He did, and Roman historians at the same time period confirmed it. They weren't Christians by the way.

see my above quote from the roman historian tacitus.

[Andy]

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