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Thread: The Washington Bunkers - Part II

  1. #16
    Walking Dead SRP76's Avatar
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    What's with all the "adopt a money system" talk? Why is everyone assuming that the concept of money was somehow "introduced" to the poor bastards stuck in the city?

    The city was secured from within. As such, the money system never left. They didn't "start" using money, they just never stopped using it.

  2. #17
    HpotD Curry Champion krakenslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRP76 View Post
    What's with all the "adopt a money system" talk? Why is everyone assuming that the concept of money was somehow "introduced" to the poor bastards stuck in the city?

    The city was secured from within. As such, the money system never left. They didn't "start" using money, they just never stopped using it.
    I think the idea that a money system was introduced comes from that fact that old-style, pre-outbreak money would have almost completely lost its value during the fall of civilisation. Old-style money would be incredibly easy to come across, you could just walk into an abandoned bank and help yourself, like Peter and Roger did in Dawn. The surviving settlements may have had to agree on a new currency that wasn't compromised like the old dollar. However, if such a thing did happen, then the new dollar must look superficially similar to the old because the money seen in the movie does look like modern currency.

  3. #18
    Arcade Master Philly_SWAT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krakenslayer View Post
    I think the idea that a money system was introduced comes from that fact that old-style, pre-outbreak money would have almost completely lost its value during the fall of civilisation. Old-style money would be incredibly easy to come across, you could just walk into an abandoned bank and help yourself, like Peter and Roger did in Dawn. The surviving settlements may have had to agree on a new currency that wasn't compromised like the old dollar. However, if such a thing did happen, then the new dollar must look superficially similar to the old because the money seen in the movie does look like modern currency.
    Your idea here does not make much sense, for several reasons. For one, with a horrible death-by-zed figuratively and literally lurking around every corner, do you really think establishing a new monetary system would be at the top of the list of things to do for survivors? Or more accurately, at the top of the list of things to do for COMPETENT, likely-to-survive survivors? "I think we should fortify our position, search for new weapons, and try to figure out a way to obtain food other than raiding old stores". "Naw, I think it is more important to find a printing press, determine how much paper money is needed to run a cash society, complete with people being separated by class. That will ensure our survival more than your 'look for food' idea." Really?

    For another...money, any money, only has value because people choose to accept that it does. The history of money is actually interesting...if you never have, I suggest reading about it. In a nutshell, many things have been used as "money" throughout history....sticks, stones, cow dung..yes, COW DUNG. As long as people accept it as having value, it does. Usually new money is introduced by a government saying that whatever the "new money" is MUST be used to pay taxes. This decree makes everyone want the new thing. But money having value is an illusion, whether we are talking about cow dung or federal reserve notes. We are finding this out now in our current economic crisis. How valuable do you think having paper money, or computer entries denoting lots of money, will be if the food distribution system breaks down? That is why when times are tough, the rich move their wealth into gold. Gold is just as much an illusion as anything else, but people tend to think that gold will....."hold the illusion" more than anything else.

    In Land, they could have used existing money easier than creating "new money". Peter and Roger took money from the bank in Dawn in safety..the mall was secured, therefore the bank was secured. There was no threat to them to take it. In Land, the peasants living in the street dont have the testicular fortitude to complain about their shitty situation... you really think they are going to venture out into zed infested lands with no weapons, no transportation, and obtain money from abandoned banks, banks which no doubt still have the money protected? Its not like the money would be laying out in the open with a big sign "zombie outbreak survivors, take this cash."

    And even if some did, obtaining the money would be hard, dangerous work. Just as back in the old days, obtaining gold as a tin-pan miner was tough work. But those that could find gold did not "mess up the economy", they just added to the supply of gold, and were rewarded for their efforts. So there would be no need whatsoever, and no good reason whatsoever, to create "new" currency. And I also say, there would be no reason to want ANY currency in a world where having money would not benefit you at all. The only thing that makes sense about the desire for money in Land is that they are close to the start of the outbreak, clinging to the old concept of "I need money".

    Someone mentioned earlier something like "they still had communications with Cleavland". No, they didnt, hence the disagreement about whether there were any survivors there or not. And even if you accept the rediculous premise that they were using "money" in Pitt, it is far more logical to assume that other pockets of survivors would have come up with better solutions in order to survive than using some type of cash system, therefore, there would be no reason at all to want money OUTSIDE of Pitt, unless you were so close to the start of the outbreak that you still dilluted yourself with the idea that money is important, because it always has been.

  4. #19
    Zombie Flesh Eater EvilNed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philly_SWAT View Post
    Your idea here does not make much sense, for several reasons. For one, with a horrible death-by-zed figuratively and literally lurking around every corner, do you really think establishing a new monetary system would be at the top of the list of things to do for survivors? Or more accurately, at the top of the list of things to do for COMPETENT, likely-to-survive survivors?
    For someone like Kaufman? When trying to rebuild society? Quite frankly? Yes. I'd wager that be pretty far up on the list.

    As for communications with others, Kaufman clearly states he has set up similar places throughout the country where he would find it fitting to "rebuild" society. I'm assuming there are already some kind of minor outposts here and there, with which he has contact. And they probably use the same money.
    Last edited by EvilNed; 20-Feb-2009 at 07:08 PM.

  5. #20
    Walking Dead SRP76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krakenslayer View Post
    I think the idea that a money system was introduced comes from that fact that old-style, pre-outbreak money would have almost completely lost its value during the fall of civilisation.
    That's just the thing: that little area of Pittsburgh didn't fall. It doesn't matter that the outside world went to hell; the people in the cordoned-off city just kept chugging along. The only difference is that instead of being able to go somewhere else and spend money, they had to stay in town and do it.

  6. #21
    Arcade Master Philly_SWAT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilNed View Post
    For someone like Kaufman? When trying to rebuild society? Quite frankly? Yes. I'd wager that be pretty far up on the list.

    As for communications with others, Kaufman clearly states he has set up similar places throughout the country where he would find it fitting to "rebuild" society. I'm assuming there are already some kind of minor outposts here and there, with which he has contact. And they probably use the same money.
    I guess this topic all depends on what someone finds believable. Forget specifically addressing GAR movies...if a zombie outbreak occurred irl similar to as it is depicted in GAR films, I find it highly unlikely/unbelievable that a system of money would be used. Therefore, I find it unbelievable that it should happen in Land. But trying to suspend my disbelief (since it actually DOES happen in Land) I still try to apply real world logic to other scenarios, taking into account that somehow they are using money. The only thing that makes sense to me is that they are close to the start of the outbreak, and are still clinging to the previous ideas, beliefs, and ways of doing things. I suppose if you think irl that money would be used/be important in a apocalyptic setting, then you would believe/accept any number of different scenarios involving the use of money in Land.

    Funny thing is, in numerous, NUMEROUS, discussions on this board in the past, when some version of the question "what would you do" comes up, I cant recall anyone mentioning how they would set about to get money. People talk about fleeing to country areas, what weapons they would use, what they would do in various situations to survive, would they hold up or stay mobile, etc. If anyone here thinks that money would be an important item to have, that it would improve their chances for survival, then apparently everyone has neglected to mention it until now.
    Last edited by Philly_SWAT; 21-Feb-2009 at 05:19 AM.

  7. #22
    Zombie Flesh Eater EvilNed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philly_SWAT View Post
    I guess this topic all depends on what someone finds believable. Forget specifically addressing GAR movies...if a zombie outbreak occurred irl similar to as it is depicted in GAR films, I find it highly unlikely/unbelievable that a system of money would be used. Therefore, I find it unbelievable that it should happen in Land.
    That's because Land is set far into the outbreak. It's not your average, run-of-the-mill "Whoops, the zombies are coming, time to hit the road!" situation. Which is also why you never heard anyone mentioning zombies. Money wouldn't help my survival, unless I lived in a society where money was valuable. But immediately following an outbreak, money would be useless... But Land isn't set immediately following the outbreak. Quite the opposite.

    Let me get this straight... Let's say it's three years into the outbreak. Or rather, three years since human civilization completely collapsed. This warlord guy starts rebuilding in the middle of wherever. There's plenty of supplies, he has a personal army and people flock to him. In two years time he has a thousand people under him, maybe more. And things are looking OK. But there's no working economy as of yet... And economy is one of the backbones of a working society.

    So what's the next logical step? Get that economy working, of course! Without it, you don't have a society. You have a gathering of people.

    It's very logical, but it would take a few years for this to establish. Just as it did in Land (3+ years).
    Last edited by EvilNed; 21-Feb-2009 at 10:21 AM.

  8. #23
    Arcade Master Philly_SWAT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilNed View Post
    That's because Land is set far into the outbreak. It's not your average, run-of-the-mill "Whoops, the zombies are coming, time to hit the road!" situation. Which is also why you never heard anyone mentioning zombies. Money wouldn't help my survival, unless I lived in a society where money was valuable. But immediately following an outbreak, money would be useless... But Land isn't set immediately following the outbreak. Quite the opposite.

    Let me get this straight... Let's say it's three years into the outbreak. Or rather, three years since human civilization completely collapsed. This warlord guy starts rebuilding in the middle of wherever. There's plenty of supplies, he has a personal army and people flock to him. In two years time he has a thousand people under him, maybe more. And things are looking OK. But there's no working economy as of yet... And economy is one of the backbones of a working society.

    So what's the next logical step? Get that economy working, of course! Without it, you don't have a society. You have a gathering of people.

    It's very logical, but it would take a few years for this to establish. Just as it did in Land (3+ years).
    I am not sure if you believe what you are saying, or just arguing for the sake of arguing. If you actually think that in a short period of time, say three years, that you can go from no economy to a functioning cash society, I think you are INCREDIBLY underestimating the difficulty in accomplishing such a task, and the risk vs. reward of even attempting to do so in a world that is drastically different than one that any of us have to use as a reference point.

    If you have sound, logical plans to accomplish such an economic miracle, then I suggest that you offer your services to the world at large right now, as we could definitely use the help of some extraordinary economic plans.

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