since when do they need passports?

[Publius]

maybe because my great grandmother is 100% blackfoot indian? that might be it.... That's awesome, seriously, but I still don't understand the logical relationship between your great-grandmother's ethnicity and the question of whether the laws applicable on an Indian reservation have anything to do with international flights from US airports.

[acealive1]

That's awesome, seriously, but I still don't understand the logical relationship between your great-grandmother's ethnicity and the question of whether the laws applicable on an Indian reservation have anything to do with international flights from US airports. because by law they dont need US issued anything unless they want it. theres no law saying any native american has to get a US id. i agree it would smooth things over alot more,but they dont even pay taxes so why would they pay for a passport

[rongravy]

Why not offer a free bottle of firewater with government issued passport? (secretly included in the price...) That'd bring them in droves.

[Wyldwraith]

That last post was NOT FUNNY and NOT COOL, Major cultural damage to many Native Americans via the ravages of alcoholism (along with the resulting drunken actions being used as a pretext for a good-ole-fashioned lynching), is just one of the MANY things we WASPs should be ashamed of on behalf of our barbaric ancestors. Hell, in some areas Native Americans who wanted to stay alive on the desolate land that passed for a "reservation", which lacked even untainted sources of drinking water were forced to concoct diluted-alcohol-based drinks to avoid getting killed by the waterborne sicknesses which ravaged their tribes. Not even going to get into the many more direct forms of biological warfare our ancestors waged on the Native Americans. Cholera-tainted blankets given to people desperate to keep their children and elders from freezing. Ring any bells? Yes, I believe that Tribal Passports need to include the same security features that U.S passports contain. So do the Native Americans, who are working through their authorities, with the U.S government to develop just such passports. The real problem is getting them internationally recognized, which I consider insult to injury given historical events. The Tribes have a RIGHT to issue their own passports/documentation and have them recognized. Sovereign doesn't mean "Autonomous until it's slightly inconvenient for the vastly more powerful neighboring nation which is built in its entirety on land stolen from said Tribes." I think that it might not have been the best instance to highlight their objection to this policy, but I understand why they would feel being forced to submit on this issue to be an attack on their Tribal identity. We did enough to the Native Americans in the past. Simple stuff like this is NOT something we should fight them on. Just my opinion as someone whose maternal grandmother is nearly full-blooded Cherokee, and whose maternal grandfather was 3/4ths Creek. Admittedly completely Anglicized family, but it does influence my thinking on these issues. That and I sort of feel like it's just a basic decency thing. We send our military to create liberty-having societies abroad, but we can't stay consistent in our morals at home?

[rongravy]

That last post was NOT FUNNY and NOT COOL, Major cultural damage to many Native Americans via the ravages of alcoholism (along with the resulting drunken actions being used as a pretext for a good-ole-fashioned lynching), is just one of the MANY things we WASPs should be ashamed of on behalf of our barbaric ancestors. We did enough to the Native Americans in the past. Simple stuff like this is NOT something we should fight them on. You got a turd in your pocket? Because we didn't do jack diddly squat to any of them... Lighten up, dood. All the things you mentioned, although sad, happened several hundred years ago mostly. No one in my family stepped foot on this side of the planet until well after that went down, my mom's side until 1972, when she shat me out unceremoniously after leaving Germany with my dad. Hit me up on some guilt over the past when we're talking about da Jews, but as far as the subject here today... They need to quit their whining and get their U.S. issued passports. Maybe spend some of that Cherokee Casino money and hook anybody and everybody with ancestry up with the dough to get them. They should have their own laws on their little patch of land, but that's as far as it should extend to, within reason. That being said, I've worked in the past with alot of Cherokees around the Oklahoma/Arkansas border, nice people... Not nearly as hung up over the past as you are. And they sure DO like their firewater.

[acealive1]

You got a turd in your pocket? Because we didn't do jack diddly squat to any of them... yea, and WE didnt do anything to holocaust survivors either but We are all being held accountable,arent we? same with slavery, just gotta remember it happened so it doesnt happen again

[CooperWasRight]

Im not even gonna touch the we argument... But I will say as a Native that all provided documentation by my tribe is just as valid as any other form of us government documentation. If you are a native there is NO law stating you are required to carry or use U.S. documentation... Any such idea is further breach of agreement the united states government and indigenous people. Anyone whom is arguing on against this tribe is not only uneducated on the issue but is most likely in the dark on the history on which this country was founded on and the alleged treaties signed. 2nd of all passports vary from country to country... As well as laws based on lawful and unlawful entry into a country... Some people just open there mouth with no knowledge on what they speak about.

[rongravy]

yea, and WE didnt do anything to holocaust survivors either but We are all being held accountable,arent we? same with slavery, just gotta remember it happened so it doesnt happen again Hey, I'm definitely down with none of that kinda shenanigans ever happening ever again. Ever. I just ain't accountable for the deeds of others in the past, personally. Just saying... I haven't pulled the trigger on anyone yet. Or cracked a whip. Or stole a people's land. Or cranked up an oven... I love all peoples.

[CooperWasRight]

Hey, I'm definitely down with none of that kinda shenanigans ever happening ever again. Ever. I just ain't accountable for the deeds of others in the past, personally. Just saying... I haven't pulled the trigger on anyone yet. Or cracked a whip. Or stole a people's land. Or cranked up an oven... I love all peoples. Ok I lied... Im am gonna get into the "we" argument... One could say that argument holds water you are using except for one thing.... You are on stolen land.... And the atrocities committed have not been properly answered for... Im not saying anyone here falls victim to the following intellectual fallacy... Hey I take pride in my country and its wonderful history or even current event that I have nothing to do with...BUT.... I have nothing to do with the naughty bits and therefore should not be blamed for such. also even if people now have no responsibility or should bare no sense or shame for the past shouldn't they at least be the champions of making sure that a proper respect for the past is had and clearly denouncing past actions? Rather then a stance of...uh ...Fuck em... These guys need to get with the program... or one of my favorites... Fuck those guys why do they get special treatment.

[acealive1]

... Fuck those guys why do they get special treatment. because they predate everyone in north america? ---------- Post added at 03:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 AM ---------- Hey, I'm definitely down with none of that kinda shenanigans ever happening ever again. Ever. I just ain't accountable for the deeds of others in the past, personally. Just saying... I haven't pulled the trigger on anyone yet. Or cracked a whip. Or stole a people's land. Or cranked up an oven... I love all peoples. no one said u did,ron. im saying as a nation people arent all on the same page. state senators are saying "slavery wasnt a mistake and we're not apologizing for it" so what do u think their stance it?

[SymphonicX]

theres nothing wow about it. all i said is they wouldnt wanna stay there. nothing behind it,calm down[COLOR="Silver"] Yeah but....we have such great VAT rates.... ---------- Post added at 10:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 AM ---------- because by law they dont need US issued anything unless they want it. theres no law saying any native american has to get a US id. i agree it would smooth things over alot more,but they dont even pay taxes so why would they pay for a passport Totally, no US id, but maybe a Native American one....at least SOME form of ID....

[Publius]

Not even going to get into the many more direct forms of biological warfare our ancestors waged on the Native Americans. Cholera-tainted blankets given to people desperate to keep their children and elders from freezing. Ring any bells? Not really. I think you mean smallpox-tainted blankets (the usual claim), but as far as I know there's no evidence that that actually happened apart from some correspondence between British officers briefly discussing the idea in 1763. Plenty of other atrocities were committed over the centuries, of course.

[Wyldwraith]

No, I mean Cholera. I'm aware of the smallpox issues which are potentially very similar, but I was just recently reading a book which included the synopsis of the court transcripts of an Indian Management agent who plead guilty to trading blankets on their way to be burned due to their having been used by victims of Cholera and Yellow Fever. (No, you don't need to tell me Yellow Fever can't be transmitted by contact with a blanket of someone with the disease. The point was the Agent had no more idea of what caused Yellow Fever at that time than anyone else of that time did, but he admitted to knowing where the blankets came from, and what they'd been potentially tainted by and trading them anyways for turquoise from desperate Native Americans. Navajo in this case.) In the particular instance I'm mentioning I don't know whether any of the Native Americans even got sick, that's NOT THE POINT. The point is you DON'T SELL GOODS POTENTIALLY TAINTED WITH LETHAL INFECTIOUS DISEASE. If I stick a loaded gun to your head and pull the trigger in front of a cop, he won't be walking me to my car and sending me merrily on my way if the bullet happens to be a dud and the gun doesn't fire. Intent MATTERS.

[acealive1]

Yeah but....we have such great VAT rates.... ---------- Post added at 10:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 AM ---------- Totally, no US id, but maybe a Native American one....at least SOME form of ID.... oh yea they got id. they're pretty friggin civilized. its not like they have stone tablet ids

[SRP76]

Forget the whining about the poor natives and shit from centuries ago. A more current question would be this: did these guys ever get to their game, or what?