George Romero who??? Darabont the new KING of zombies

[DjfunkmasterG]

I disagree with this. TWD has one episode under its belt. All it has done is establish a situation, a few characters, and a few plot twists. It has a lot left in front of it. And right now the fans are blinded by anticipation. Comparing TWD with a GAR movie is difficult. As others have pointed out, GAR has to fit setting, character development, plot development and conclusion into a 90-100 minute format. TWD was able to spend a solid half that amount of time just establishing the setting and a couple characters. Want a more appropriate comparison? Compare the TWD first episode with the first 10 minutes of Land. Land didn't suffer its criticisms for how it opened. It suffered for how it developed and concluded. We don't know how TWD will sustain and conclude. It may get preachy (as hellsing suggests), the plot may get weird, the ending may be trash. If I just compare the TWD opening to the Land opening I'm still of the opinion that GAR's was better. Don't get me wrong... TWD was good. It was a strong start. It left me believing that it can deliver a solid zombie storyline. But it's not flawless by any measure!! Here's my breakdown. The good: - No silliness. The story had a very real, practical, tangible feel to it. It took the subject matter very seriously. - Good character identification. The characters were well conceived and well acted. The direction conveyed a solid sense of who these people are and convinced us to care about them. - Awesome depiction of the environment. The wrecked hospital, the bodies about, the town, the evidence of military presence... just everything. Every little detail of the world added to our understanding, and kept the intrigue alive. - The suspense was palpable. We know at some level what's coming, but watching it unfold through his eyes as it unfolds is very chilling. Here is the bad: - 28 Days Later opening? Not good. I didn't buy it in 28 Days and I didn't buy it here. No one survives unconscious for a month as the world dies around them, then magically wakes up fine. - The pace was too slow. Too many long introspective moments. Too many long drawn out scenes of incidental stuff. I got the feeling they were looking to stretch the events out over as long a time period as possible. At some point that is going to shift from building anticipation to building fan frustration. If weeks drag by and the plot barely budges they'll have a mess. - The relative sparsity of zombies (I've not read the comics, so I don't know how it unfolds) is a ticking timebomb. With the long drawn out scenes of exploration both out in the rural areas and in the fringes of Atlanta they (perhaps unintentionally) sold me that survivability outside the city is relatively easy. If they want to now sell me a world that's tough to survive... well, they've created an uphill battle for themselves. - Let's face it... the dude got cornered in a wide open set of streets while on a horse. That's pretty f'in lame. He'd been riding around the streets for a long time with only seeing a few here and there. Then, boom, he's surrounded. They used tricky tight camera angles and close ups to make it look like he had no place to run, but I'm not buying it. We just got done with sweeping views of open streets. All he had to do was retreat along his entry path a few hundred yards and he woulda been fine. So, all in all, a good start. I'll be glued to my set. I'll be very surprised if it maintains its current level of awesomeness. You're misreading my statement TRIN... I am just referring to the DARABONT directed episode "Days Gone Bye" That is it. In this one episode DARABONT, IMHO, has outshined Romero. I cant compare Darabont to Romero n further episodes because Darabont isn't directing 2-6, nor is he writing 2-6, just producing.

[AcesandEights]

It's too late, DJ! Don't say you weren't warned...

[bassman]

I cant compare Darabont to Romero n further episodes because Darabont isn't directing 2-6, nor is he writing 2-6, just producing. Actually...I think he wrote episodes 1-3. Kirkman wrote 4. Not sure about the other two. But as for the first episode. Don't you dare form an opinion of it without seeing the rest. People won't have that around here.(see the "overrated" thread)

[DjfunkmasterG]

Actually...I think he wrote episodes 1-3. Kirkman wrote 4. Not sure about the other two. But as for the first episode. Don't you dare form an opinion of it without seeing the rest. People won't have that around here.(see the "overrated" thread) I believe you are correct BM, Darabont did write 1-3, but again I am just comparing Romeros work to Darabonts episode and if people don't like my opinion fuck'em. (not saying you, just everyone in general who doesn't like my opinion) I am sorry if it is a blow to their Romero purist ego, but from what I have watched, the statement stands. I do give Romero his props for bring this breed of zombie too life, so to speak, but in this instance DARABONT has clearly upstaged Uncle George.

[Legion2213]

Trin, quick point about the horse. It was natural that it would bolt...this wasn't a police horse that had had years of crowd training. It was also confronted with like zombies while being riden by a total stranger. Totally believable for me. As for the "Day of the triffids opening" (or 28 days later if you prefer). Just a way of saving money, would've eaten half their filming budget to show the initial breakdown of society in any sort of detail IMO. Hopefully, as time goes on, we might see a few flashbacks of that sort of stuff, or maybe we'll have to wait for WWZ if we want to see the military fighting hordes of zacks. TWD's first and only episode to date, might not be perfect, but it's the best zombie stuff I've seen since for many years.

[Deckard]

- 28 Days Later opening? Not good. I didn't buy it in 28 Days and I didn't buy it here. No one survives unconscious for a month as the world dies around them, then magically wakes up fine. Well this has been discussed in various threads, but simply the hospital might have recently been over ran as the military might have been using it as some sort of command post or supply and first aid station. - The pace was too slow. Too many long introspective moments. Too many long drawn out scenes of incidental stuff. I got the feeling they were looking to stretch the events out over as long a time period as possible. At some point that is going to shift from building anticipation to building fan frustration. If weeks drag by and the plot barely budges they'll have a mess. I think this will change to a degree as more characters are added in upcoming episodes. - The relative sparsity of zombies (I've not read the comics, so I don't know how it unfolds) is a ticking timebomb. With the long drawn out scenes of exploration both out in the rural areas and in the fringes of Atlanta they (perhaps unintentionally) sold me that survivability outside the city is relatively easy. If they want to now sell me a world that's tough to survive... well, they've created an uphill battle for themselves. Keep in mind that Morgan said that they become more active at night as we see through the window of the house when the street is literally filled with them. Morgan also gives several of his own explanations for why they are more active at night than the day. I think the night time scenes will certainly be more dangerous (most scenes in the pilot were during the day), but I agree with you based on the pilot, the day time has way to few zombies even for the small town that Rick lives in. - Let's face it... the dude got cornered in a wide open set of streets while on a horse. That's pretty f'in lame. He'd been riding around the streets for a long time with only seeing a few here and there. Then, boom, he's surrounded. They used tricky tight camera angles and close ups to make it look like he had no place to run, but I'm not buying it. We just got done with sweeping views of open streets. All he had to do was retreat along his entry path a few hundred yards and he woulda been fine. If you watch the scene, after he turns the corner and backtracks there are no longer any open streets or areas, zombies are everywhere. If you want to argue that there couldn't be that amount of zombies all of a sudden that is a fine and a valid point. However, the zombies particularly in the day (which the Atlanta scene occurs in) seem not to move around much ie the zombies around the corner, the zombie near the driveway laying against a fence post of the house Morgan and his son live in, the zombies in the bus. Maybe they were in the buildings because the sun bothers them or makes them decay faster who knows. We do know that sound gets them moving no matter what the time, and between Grimes on horseback on pavement and the helicopter, those noises might have stirred the zombies from whatever "lair" they were in.

[darth los]

I disagree with this. TWD has one episode under its belt. All it has done is establish a situation, a few characters, and a few plot twists. It has a lot left in front of it. And right now the fans are blinded by anticipation. Comparing TWD with a GAR movie is difficult. As others have pointed out, GAR has to fit setting, character development, plot development and conclusion into a 90-100 minute format. TWD was able to spend a solid half that amount of time just establishing the setting and a couple characters. Want a more appropriate comparison? Compare the TWD first episode with the first 10 minutes of Land. Land didn't suffer its criticisms for how it opened. It suffered for how it developed and concluded. We don't know how TWD will sustain and conclude. It may get preachy (as hellsing suggests), the plot may get weird, the ending may be trash. If I just compare the TWD opening to the Land opening I'm still of the opinion that GAR's was better. Don't get me wrong... TWD was good. It was a strong start. It left me believing that it can deliver a solid zombie storyline. But it's not flawless by any measure!! Here's my breakdown. The good: - No silliness. The story had a very real, practical, tangible feel to it. It took the subject matter very seriously. - Good character identification. The characters were well conceived and well acted. The direction conveyed a solid sense of who these people are and convinced us to care about them. - Awesome depiction of the environment. The wrecked hospital, the bodies about, the town, the evidence of military presence... just everything. Every little detail of the world added to our understanding, and kept the intrigue alive. - The suspense was palpable. We know at some level what's coming, but watching it unfold through his eyes as it unfolds is very chilling. Here is the bad: - 28 Days Later opening? Not good. I didn't buy it in 28 Days and I didn't buy it here. No one survives unconscious for a month as the world dies around them, then magically wakes up fine. - The pace was too slow. Too many long introspective moments. Too many long drawn out scenes of incidental stuff. I got the feeling they were looking to stretch the events out over as long a time period as possible. At some point that is going to shift from building anticipation to building fan frustration. If weeks drag by and the plot barely budges they'll have a mess. - The relative sparsity of zombies (I've not read the comics, so I don't know how it unfolds) is a ticking timebomb. With the long drawn out scenes of exploration both out in the rural areas and in the fringes of Atlanta they (perhaps unintentionally) sold me that survivability outside the city is relatively easy. If they want to now sell me a world that's tough to survive... well, they've created an uphill battle for themselves. - Let's face it... the dude got cornered in a wide open set of streets while on a horse. That's pretty f'in lame. He'd been riding around the streets for a long time with only seeing a few here and there. Then, boom, he's surrounded. They used tricky tight camera angles and close ups to make it look like he had no place to run, but I'm not buying it. We just got done with sweeping views of open streets. All he had to do was retreat along his entry path a few hundred yards and he woulda been fine. So, all in all, a good start. I'll be glued to my set. I'll be very surprised if it maintains its current level of awesomeness. Damn Trin. Did you read my mind. I've never been one to put up long posts so I am relieved you're here to do it for me. I agree with everything you said. The episode was good. I don't know if it was from watching the trailer or not but there was nothing that knocked my socks off. No "Oh Snap!" moment. -As you can tell from my earlier post I agree about him getting cornered in the streets like that. Not believable. It just seemed like an easy way to explain him getting locked in the tank. An unbelievable scenario in order to advance the plot/show. ( And isn't that what so many people's criticism of Dawn 04' is? A film filled with inexplicable decisions like that?) -As for the sparcity of zombies, I totally agree. How someone could walk for a mile and not come across more than token resistance is inexplicable. I also didn't like the fact that they would disperse after a while. The Gar ghouls are relentless. Whether it's at the mall doors or the gates to the underground bunker, once they know you're in there they will never leave. -And yeah, waking up in a hospital alone in the midst of all that is not plausible. He should have been eaten up a while ago.

[AcesandEights]

Well this has been discussed in various threads, but simply the hospital might have recently been over ran as the military might have been using it as some sort of command post or supply and first aid station. I think this will change to a degree as more characters are added in upcoming episodes. Keep in mind that Morgan said that they become more active at night as we see through the window of the house when the street is literally filled with them. Morgan also gives several of his own explanations for why they are more active at night than the day. I think the night time scenes will certainly be more dangerous (most scenes in the pilot were during the day), but I agree with you based on the pilot, the day time has way to few zombies even for the small town that Rick lives in. If you watch the scene, after he turns the corner and backtracks there are no longer any open streets or areas, zombies are everywhere. If you want to argue that there couldn't be that amount of zombies all of a sudden that is a fine and a valid point. However, the zombies particularly in the day (which the Atlanta scene occurs in) seem not to move around much ie the zombies around the corner, the zombie near the driveway laying against a fence post of the house Morgan and his son live in, the zombies in the bus. Maybe they were in the buildings because the sun bothers them or makes them decay faster who knows. We do know that sound gets them moving no matter what the time, and between Grimes on horseback on pavement and the helicopter, those noises might have stirred the zombies from whatever "lair" they were in. Excellent points, all! The fact that many of the Dead seemed to have had their attentions brought to bare by a combination of Rick's horse and the chopper was spot on, to me.

[DjfunkmasterG]

Damn Trin. Did you read my mind. I've never been one to put up long posts so I am relieved you're here to do it for me. I agree with everything you said. The episode was good. I don't know if it was from watching the trailer or not but there was nothing that knocked my socks off. No "Oh Snap!" moment. -As you can tell from my earlier post I agree about him getting cornered in the streets like that. Not believable. It just seemed like an easy way to explain him getting locked in the tank. An unbelievable scenario in order to advance the plot/show. ( And isn't that what so many people's criticism of Dawn 04' is? A film filled with inexplicable decisions like that?) -As for the sparcity of zombies, I totally agree. How someone could walk for a mile and not come across more than token resistance is inexplicable. I also didn't like the fact that they would disperse after a while. The Gar ghouls are relentless. Whether it's at the mall doors or the gates to the underground bunker, once they know you're in there they will never leave. -And yeah, waking up in a hospital alone in the midst of all that is not plausible. He should have been eaten up a while ago. Well if they are drawn to Noise as was said int he show them not eating Rick in the hospital is believable because he was in a coma... plus when he walks out a gurney is blocking his door, now while it easily rolled away it was also suggested the military had control of that hospital until it was too far gone but the dead were locked away so again, everything that occurred is believable from a rational point of view.

[mista_mo]

And yeah, waking up in a hospital alone in the midst of all that is not plausible. He should have been eaten up a while ago. Door was closed, locked and a gurney was placed in front of the door. unless the undead know for a fact that something edible was in the room, i highly doubt they would attempt to even open the door. Also, Power was off in the city, yet the lights were still on in the hospital. This implies that the hospital was running on a back up generator, and I doubt it could do that for very very long. The hospital also seemed to be a nest of activity for the military, so it isn't out of the ordinary for the hospital to have survived relatively unscathed for a little longer than the rest of the city did. I think that Rick woke up a few days at the most, after everyone was killed or took off, so it isn't strange to think that he survived at all.

[DjfunkmasterG]

Door was closed, locked and a gurney was placed in front of the door. unless the undead know for a fact that something edible was in the room, i highly doubt they would attempt to even open the door. Also, Power was off in the city, yet the lights were still on in the hospital. This implies that the hospital was running on a back up generator, and I doubt it could do that for very very long. The hospital also seemed to be a nest of activity for the military, so it isn't out of the ordinary for the hospital to have survived relatively unscathed for a little longer than the rest of the city did. I think that Rick woke up a few days at the most, after everyone was killed or took off, so it isn't strange to think that he survived at all. Agreed

[kidgloves]

Door was closed, locked and a gurney was placed in front of the door. unless the undead know for a fact that something edible was in the room, i highly doubt they would attempt to even open the door. Also, Power was off in the city, yet the lights were still on in the hospital. This implies that the hospital was running on a back up generator, and I doubt it could do that for very very long. The hospital also seemed to be a nest of activity for the military, so it isn't out of the ordinary for the hospital to have survived relatively unscathed for a little longer than the rest of the city did. I think that Rick woke up a few days at the most, after everyone was killed or took off, so it isn't strange to think that he survived at all. Theres also signs that the dead didn't make it as far as the corridor where his room was. When he steps out the room the corridor is fairly normal but dark. As he makes his way further out you can see the situation unfolding. The head height gunshot holes in the wall with blood splatters was ace. The whole hospital segment was setup to provide some sort of backstory but if people didn't enjoy it as much as the rest of us seem to have then they aren't going to go back and pick up these details

[Legion2213]

Let's be honest, there isn't a film or TV series in creation that you couldn't pick holes in if you really wanted to. TWD is no different. Bottom line: We have (for the first time in our lives) a zombie TV series, it looks to be very high quality, the positives for me far outweigh any negatives. If the pilot is an indication of the overall tone and quality of future shows, then I am one happy bunny.

[DjfunkmasterG]

I thinkt his show is going to do very well and with a 5.3 viewer rating, meaning 5+ million tuned in that is great stuff, considering it is a cable channel. Word of mouth may help it grow and you can bet us die hards will be buying the BR day and date of release.

[Trin]

Thanks Darth!! I was cheering for your similar post a few pages back. @Deej - Even if you're only referring to the Darabont directed episode I still disagree. I'm not sure how you can compare them at all, much less conclude one upstaged a series of movies. Personally, I think Darabont did a great job of doing something completely different than what GAR has done. I think that before he can upstage GAR he has to undertake a much bigger challenge. I also think that TWD has proven that Darabont deserves a shot at that challenge. @Legion - I agree with you about the horse. I was actually a bit miffed he chose the horse for just that reason. I don't know much about horses, but it seems an unreliable, unpredictable mode of transport. I wouldn't say I was actively going "wtf" over it, but I was none too happy. On a side note, can we really justify him running out of gas? I don't see how that happens with the dozens of cars he passed ... literally everywhere. Especially since we established right off that he was gas-hunting. It seemed a bit like contriving plot to me, and that gets into GAR territory!! *shudder* I suppose one could argue that gas was depleted as society crumbled, but the evidence suggests that people fled and abandoned areas, or holed up in areas, which doesn't jive with resources being depleted uniformly. In a WWBMD analysis I see finding a source of gas and filling up all the 5-gallon containers you can find as job #1. And not traveling on any less than half a tank away from a source without finding a new source. What do you feed a horse anyway? Is that easier to find than gas? @Deckard - I agree with all your observations, and my main point on the crowd of zombies is just as you said, I don't see there being that amount around all of a sudden. That represents a serious lack of awareness to his surroundings in a situation where he would be looking over his shoulder constantly. Again, it has the subtle smell of plot contrivance, and that sort of thing tends to get worse, not better. @Everone... Don't let my balanced opinion fool you... I enjoyed the show immensely and am looking forward to the rest. The Good list definitely outweighs the Bad list. I'm totally stoked to see where it goes, but at the same time I'm keeping my expectations on the leash just in case.