Bush Vetoes Stem Cell Bill As Promised.....

[erisi236]

Of course this is only a ban on FEDERAL FUNDING on stem cell research, it's not a ban on stem cell research in general. No one ever seems to get the distinction tho' In fact if stem cells are so great why aren't Governments in every other country pumping billions into it? or why hasn't private enterprises taken up the cause? Actually I think this quote pretty much answers my question... "You've never worked in the private sector before, they expect results"

[Zombie-A-GoGo]

"You've never worked in the private sector before, they expect results" Too true. IVF certainly didn't get where it is now through Federal Funding (much for the same reasons embryonic stem cell research is having trouble now--a cause they seemed to have dropped, not for moral reasons, but for reasons of popularity)--it succeeded in the private sector. But like most Christian causes, it's the galling fact that they force their morality on everyone else, regardless of what others might believe. Because they want to protect clumps of cells, my (very much alive and viable in their selfhood) nieces might die of something they wouldn't have had to in their adult lives. Disgusting and entirely presumptive. ... why should I pay extra taxes for one more scam that will never show results... You mean like IVF? Please see above post. I'm sure a lot of couples who this procedure helped have children would beg to differ with this assessment. Please excuse the double post.

[Cody]

I do think stem cell has its advantages, for example its going VERY well for the Japanese they wont be plagued by as much as us non enginered

[AcesandEights]

In fact if stem cells are so great why aren't Governments in every other country pumping billions into it? or why hasn't private enterprises taken up the cause? I've thought about this before, and the pesimist in me wants to say that there's more money in keeping people sick for big business, but that's way to convenient of an answer. Maybe I should try and find out what, if any, private sector entities have been involved in funding research. To Google!

[Kaos]

yeah, let private foundations fund it... why should I pay extra taxes for one more scam that will never show results... ...like every telethon and money raising ploy out there today Those get federal funding too.

[MinionZombie]

But the thing is we're bitching about that select few, not all Christians. I'm a laid back kinda guy (at least I used to be before I started paying attention to politics) ... anyway, each to their own, you can be a Christian, a Muslim or a Jew or whatever (except Scientology, that's a rich man's cult quite literally - it should have stopped at a self-help book and gone no further). Anyway ... the Christians that rant and shout are the ones who get the attention and therefore the bad name on behalf of the ones who don't speak up. We should have more Christians (or whoever) speaking up against the twats that are banning important research such as this, or saying EVERYBODY (regardless of faith - or lack thereof) isn't allowed to have the right to die when the time comes (physical and/or mental vegetation), or even be allowed to go and watch The Jerry Springer Opera without having a bunch of frothing-at-the-mouth nosey parkers saying "you're going to hell" ... freedom of the media anyone? *ack!* I'm getting ranty again ... point is, we're just bitching about the vocal minority, who end up feeling like the vocal majority, because we don't hear anything from the silent majority...

[Marie]

Even if true, and I couldn't say either way, it misses THE point entirely. Embryonic Stem Cell Research has been scientificly shown to have more potential in areas of spinal cord injury, juvenile diabetes, Parkinson's etc...etc.. Let me see if I understand your arguement Okay? Please understand I'm really not trying to be snippy. You just said that you didn't know whether embryonic stem cell research has any benifits or not (and my reading puts it in the "Not" catagory, but that's just an aside) But since the same people who gave us GMO crops that have been suspected to poison us as well as the insects, say it'll help we should just give them a pass and do this? Interesting thought. What's next? Using the indigent and the handicapped as organ doners for the rest of us, which BTW has the advantage of being a proven technique. We CAN transplant successfully. See? What your missing here is the cost of this line of research. The cost is our humanity. M_

[Kaos]

Let me see if I understand your arguement Okay? Please understand I'm really not trying to be snippy. You just said that you didn't know whether embryonic stem cell research has any benifits or not (and my reading puts it in the "Not" catagory, but that's just an aside) M_ You definitely misconstrued the statement in context the message I was responding to. Doom made a statement that embryonic stem cell research hasn't helped anyone as of yet. I agreed to the possibility that his exact statement MAY be true, in as much as this type of stem cell research or any type of medical research it takes time to develop and eventually reach patients. I was demonstrating that this is not a particulary relevant point since his statement was true of aspirin at one time. The scientists who are working in this field know a whole lot more than you or I on the viability of this research. The majority say it is viable and worthy of research. I know that George Bush did not veto the bill based upon the scientific viability but due to his moral opinion of the issue. (At least if you want to take him for his word.) He isn't really coming out swinging against the scientific community on their analysis regarding viability. I think he knows better than to do that. I know you weren't being snippy, you are a good debater who feels strongly on this issue, and I respect that. The only arguement that has any merit for debate(since the viability issue has really been objectively decided) is on whether the research is moral. You have your stance, and I have mine. Both are subjective by their very nature so I won't bother arguing with you about them. I respect your right to have your opinion. The only other arguement I might entertain is whether the government should be funding medical research. Maybe yes, and maybe no. But if no, then no medical research should be funded whatsoever including all forms of cancer (childhood forms included).

[Tied2thetracks]

Can you guys discuss this without being assholes? I don't need to be called a dumb ass or a redneck or anthing else being tossed at christians on this thread. Enough with the blanket statements, plenty of non christians are against abortion. I am equally annoyed moderaters are joining in on the name calling.

[p2501]

HEY HEY HEY why does everyone always have a go at us christians because of a select few!?!? You cant tar us all with the same brush and I'll have you know its only the nuts who stay in the dark ages not christianity and if you knew anything about christianity you'd know most of us are very accepting! Yeh theres stuff in the world we moan about but who doesnt, its just people who dont know better seeing the religion from the outside and sticking their oar in.....ok rant over.........I do agree a lot of so called christians need a reality check though! God Bless because "you" don't self police your asshole membership. mainline Christians keep giving fundies a pass, so to me they're guilty by apathy. I can't even go off on this lame f*ck for this........ Way to go Christians!!!! Keep Humanity in the Dark Ages!!!!!! dumb-asses. pfft come on, your supprised? what hasn't bush blunderfukked his way through on. here's hoping nacy reagan beats his monkey ass.

[Marie]

The only other arguement I might entertain is whether the government should be funding medical research. Maybe yes, and maybe no. But if no, then no medical research should be funded whatsoever including all forms of cancer (childhood forms included). Actually, you won't get much arguement from me on that... I think if the government concentrated on policing (including themselves therefore watching out for our enumerated rights) ,national defense and road maintence I'd pretty much be happy. Truthfully they're not doing any of this to my satisfaction. Let Doctors and drug companies persure the research. I think someone else pointed out that when a private company is paying the bills what counts is results. M_

[HLS]

That's what creeps me out about these guys......they haven't got a clue when it comes to science and REALITY!!!!!! "NO, you can't do this!!!"......"YES you can do that!!!!" I can ask my Christian friends ONE question.......and they ALL do the same thing..........they don't answer.....they gripe and bitch and point fingers toward everyone but themselves...they try and take said question into another relm,.......(yes, this is ONE thing....because all of them do it).....like eating and zombifying themselves in front of their TVs....they don't "think". There is only ONE way,......as long as I can give you many many many directions to get there. ---- What The Flying mutha fu*kin F*ck!!?? I still love my Christian friends....but, dammit if they ain't a weird bunch of f*ckers!!!!? oh my.....let me get back to the point......Pro Life - Pro ME I am VERY pro life!!! BUT...I am also VERY pro self. Everyone that makes it out of the womb and survives a lifetime is alright by me!!!! I don't give a flying fuc* how you live as long as it dosen't interfere with my life!!!! If ya never made it out? Sorry.....wasn't my decision. - nuff said there.. Stem Cell Research could save alot of lives, but, do we have enough space? Well i am Christian and all for stem cell research. It must be the Catholics, lol

[dmbfanintn]

didn't know whether embryonic stem cell research has any benifits or not (and my reading puts it in the "Not" catagory, but that's just an aside) M_ Again Marie, you never ceae to amaze me. Do you really believe that there is NO potential in ESCR? you say that your reading puts in the not catagory. What is the source of your "reading" and do you ever read things from sources that are, say, a little more liberal? There is plenty of reading out there that says there is plenty of potential in this reasearch, do you just choose not to read those articles? You're a pretty hard line conservative aren't you? how do you feel about Global Warming? I know there was a thread about it a couple of days ago, but I do not recal you participating. Do you hold the same opinion as your president? That global warming is BS?

[Graebel]

For all Pro-Choicers.....instead of arguing drive by your nearest pro-choice clinic and tell the volunteers working there - (The ones who guard incoming patients.) - that they're doing an awesome job. It definitely makes more sense and a bigger impact to offer praise than to argue a point. We'll never change each other's minds and the volunteers appreciate it very much.

[Marie]

Again Marie, you never ceae to amaze me. Do you really believe that there is NO potential in ESCR? you say that your reading puts in the not catagory. What is the source of your "reading" and do you ever read things from sources that are, say, a little more liberal? There is plenty of reading out there that says there is plenty of potential in this reasearch, do you just choose not to read those articles? Do you hold the same opinion as your president? That global warming is BS? Glad to know I amaze you . I believe that there is little or no potential healing from fetal stem cells that cannot come from willing adult donated stem cells. I don't feel comfortable farming potential people either, but that's yet another aspect. Global warming is IMO part of the natural progression of planetary weather. We've been coming out of an ice age for the last 5,000 years. Humanity as a race grew up in a fall or winter of the planet...now it's high summer. In a few hundred years it may well be approaching fall again. I believe that the human race has contributed minimally to this process. if at all. The world is a big place, and me living in third world conditions or us allowing the rest of the planet's people to tell us how to live isn't going to change that. I have answered you seriously and honestly. Respond as you will. M_